Originally Posted by Kszan
I feel like the way your questions were worded made it appear as though you were more upset about her wording than about anything else but now I think it makes more sense now. It's not about what words she is using for you, the bottom line for you is that you're afraid she isn't completely over her marriage and that's what's upsetting you. Is that what you're saying? If that's what you're saying then I guess my next question is, if it was truly just a marriage in name only and not serious, then would you need to worry about her not being over it?
Or are you saying that she is using these words to describe her marriage on purpose to rub it in your face or something? Is that what you're worried about? If that's the case then I think you really do need to reevaluate this relationship because she shouldn't be doing that.
Even though I think I understand better now what the issue is, about you being worried she isn't completely over her previous marriage, I still think that if she really didn't love this other guy in the first place then she probably couldn't care less about him so you probably don't have to worry about that.
I don't know, I still feel a little bit like I'm zigging and you're zagging and we're still missing each others' points here but maybe you see better what I'm trying to say because I feel like I have a little better handle on your issue now.
Okay, okay. I am sorry for getting so frustrated, but this whole thing is very emotional for me, and I had to take a little time to get away and cool off. You were simply trying to help me, and I flipped out on you. PLEASE accept my apology.
I'll post replies to everyone who was kind enough to respond to me, but I think I should definitely start with you, Kszan. Yes, I am the one reporting on this situation, so if something didn't come across very clearly, I am the one to blame. Yes, I over-emphasized the issue about the words she uses to describe her previous marriage, and I am more worried that she is "not over" her previous marriage (in some very strange ways).
No, I don't think she really even liked the guy that much, and the entirety of their "marriage" was pretty much like the kind of "marriage" that someone who is already separated has. That is, legal and technical, but that's about it.
But, I might be zigging, and you might be zagging when it comes to what we mean by "over it." I'm pretty sure that the entire reason she was even dating this guy for multiple years was that she felt pressure from her family to settle down and marry someone, and she was convinced this guy was never going to propose. I mean, I'm sure that she liked him as a person in many ways, but I think when you're running from that kind of pressure and you know someone who you feel certain will never expect more than one day at a time of dating from you, who will never pressure you into any commitment . . . that, well, that can be very attractive. But he completely blindsided her with an aggressive proposal after 3 or 4 years of dating (From what I understand, that dating was a kind of detached, it's easy, maintain-the-status-quo kind of affair, and the proposal was the result of strong pressure from the guy's family. Oh, and that she was taken by surprise after that long is telling, right?). I don't think she was prepared to say no and dump him, and so then, as they say, the train started rolling. It was clearly a bad move, but by the time she felt absolutely sure she didn't want to do it, it already felt like too much to stop, she went through with it, and just one reason this "marriage commitment" was meaningless is that she wants to have children, and the guy swore up and down that he did not. (She also knows he meant it, and she didn't expect him to change.) In sum, then, I'm not threatened by feelings that she was more in love with this guy than me, or that she is still living in the ruins of some dream that didn't work out. Nothing like that, really.
Instead, I'm worried that she's just too plain messed up when it comes to relationships. Coming clean, even a little bit, about her past seems like a good way to start getting some things in order. Some things that, frankly, I'm not quite sure she's ever really had in order. So, when you ask if she's trying to "rub it in my face," I'm not sure she's doing that so much as she is trying to insist on something that never really was. Because, well, she's ashamed that it never really was. That's what wasn't in order on her mistaken "wedding day," and it's what's still not in order now.
I want to be very clear here. She went through with a wedding, and two years of marriage, when she KNEW that she didn't want to be with the other person. She cheated, from day one. I don't expect her to advertise those things, but I do expect her to find some way of putting things in perspective. I have dated people before who had previous marriages, and, like anyone who has made a mistake that can't be hidden, they had very clear ideas about why they made that mistake and how they intended to never do the same. I guess I just need her to do that. If you "marry" someone when you, at best, are hoping that you'll figure out how to really mean it afterwards, quickly discover that has no chance of working, and are now, finally, at a time and place where it's over and done with, and you have a chance to start over with someone you always wanted to be with . . . is it better to keep saying that you meant it and it didn't work out, or to just start saying something like "I did it for the wrong reasons, and I know what I want marriage to be, now"?
Some of my friends keep asking me why I keep putting so much effort into this. "It shouldn't be so much work," they say. Simple answer, I love her. I love her more than anyone I have ever known in my life.
I'm not sure if I am being clear, and I want to respond to AllandNothing and rosequartz, too, but I thought I would try to re-open this dialogue. I can keep trying, and hopefully not throw any more hissy fits. My apologies, again, for getting sensitive a week ago.