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Old 09-05-2003, 07:23 AM   #1
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Question abused Suboxone ~ LONG post!

I am new here although I've been reading the board for a bit now.

I started S/B in late July. Took my last opiate pain pill (10mgs hydro, in any form I could get them ~ at the end I was up to taking 200mgs in a single day) on a Friday around 7pm and started the S/B the next morning around 9am. I was sick from the taste of them (the whole letting them dissovle under the tongue thing ~ yuck!) and generally feeling bad all that Saturday and into Sunday, but by Monday I was functional enough to get back to the doc (psych/addictionologist) to check in. I also started Effexor at the same time as the S/B, fyi.

All was going well ~ everyday I was feeling better and better. I kept waiting for the bad "got no hydro blues" feelings to kick in but they never did. No cravings, obsessing, drag your face along the floor depression that goes with stopping an opiate/narcotic (I know you all know what I'm talking about! ) that I had experienced MANY MANY times before in all my attempts to get off those pills.

So one day during a "check-in" with the doc I expressed my worry that I would start feeling that old feeling soon, but he said the worst was over and when I left there that day I was flying high with the knowledge that I could get off those dang devil pills and not feel like I was dying while I did it!

So what happens next? Can you guess from the title of this post? You can take the drugs from the addict, but you cant take the addictive behaviors from him/her, ya know.

The addict in me started to think "If 2 little 8mg S/B's make me feel normal, what would more do?"

Just as this thought occured to me I had another check-in at the docs (this doc, not sure how others do it, will only give you a script for enough S/B to hold you until your next check-in until you are established with the med and in their practice) and was given a script for enough S/B at the current dose for a whole month

I took them, a little extra at a time first, then increasingly more and more in a day until they were all gone in a matter of 10 days

And you wanna know what is the most stupid, crazy, ignorant thing about this? I never, I repeat NEVER got high. I kept trying, but it would NOT work. But did that stop me? Oh, no ~ the addict in me just kept thinking "More, More, More ~ it is bound to get you high since it does have the magic stuff in it." STUPID STUPID STUPID!

And I knew exactly what I was taking and that it was made to NOT get a person high ~ just help them through getting off the devil pills.

Why did I do it? Just the addict in me? Am I really that DENSE? I must be, because I did it.

And how did I feel when they were all gone and what did I do? I am happy to say that I did NOT go out and score any hydro!!! Yeah, me!!!! I didnt feel "bad" until about 5 days without any S/B (I took my last few pills last Wednesday AM) and what started then was not w/d, but more of just that "blah-cant-motivate-myself-to-do-anything-AT-ALL" feeling that goes along with typical w/d. Does everyone know the feeling I mean? No normal, regular w/d ~ just the feeling that my body weighs 1000lbs and getting up to make lunch for my kids is just TOO MUCH to do.

What I am wondering now is what to do? Its about 13 days until I can get more S/B from the doc. The last script he gave me was meant to last until 9/18. I had a check-in appointment for this past Tuesday, but I skipped it because I just could NOT make it feeling the was I was and feeling so ashamed of myself for what I had done and didnt want to face the doc and his staff since they have been really good to me.

Also there seems to be some problem with my insurance company that I have been avoiding dealing with/figuring out. Its new insurance that just took effect 7/2 and they are requesting info on my past history I'm guessing in an attempt to dub this a "pre-exsisting" condition and not cover any of it I know they have denied claims and maybe the office wont even see me because of it? I didnt call to let them know I wouldnt be there on Monday ~ just blew it off and hung my head.

Should I make the attempt to go in and fess up to them about what I did? I am SO AFRAID they will kick me off the S/B program! I feel pretty certain that I wont do it again cuz I really learned it wouldnt get me high and I miss the "normal" feeling I had while on the S/B. I think I am one of those people who messed up the chemistry in my brain and may need life-long med therapy for it, not sure.

My D/H does not know about my last hydro relapse that led me to this doc and S/B. He just thinks its a med to go along with the anti-depressant Effexor and if I can avoid fessing up to him I would LOVE it. He has been put thru plenty with me and my drug use/habit/addiction, that is for sure.

So, tough it out until the 18th or fess up to the doc? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif Any and all opinions welcomed!

I know for certain that I need to deal with the insurance issue and I am willing to do that and LIE if needed to keep them from cutting me off of treatment for depression and addiction. Evil insurance companies!!!!!!!!!

Wow ~ this is long and if you got this far and still find time to reply, BLESS YOU!!!

Your friend in addiction ~
LA

[This message has been edited by WannaBnormal (edited 09-05-2003).]

 
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Old 09-05-2003, 07:43 AM   #2
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cousincatfish HB User
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I think you should let your dr in on it. You are dealing with depression issues here and that is nothing to be pridefull or ashamed about. We are all human and make mistakes...Your intitled, I probibly would have done the same thing so I am sure he has hear of it before. ease up on your self and just let him in on it. The insurance thing will work out in the long run...Pray

keep posting it helps

 
Old 09-05-2003, 08:24 AM   #3
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Hopefortoday HB User
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You are not the first person who has tried abusing Suboxone and won't be the last!! If I were you, I would be honest with my doctor (again, he knows how addicts think and knows to expect this!!) and he can get you back on track.

Good luck to you!!

 
Old 09-05-2003, 08:48 AM   #4
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Jeffie010603 HB User
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I just had to tell my doc that I've been taking 8mg more than prescribed for past several weeks. He simply upped my dose to that amount, but he's especially understanding...

...I don't know, but maybe you were on too low a dose if you kept craving--what do you think, Very Lucky? I don't want to tell you to come clean with your doctor because yours may not be the understanding type. Only you know best how he'll react. But you DO need to get that insurance thing resolved PRONTO, one way or another. I know that's hard to do without the sub though, so maybe you're back to HAVING to tell the doctor--? I just don't know... Sorry, mainly wanted to suggest that you may have been on too low a dose in the first place, but that's just my uneducated opinion.

 
Old 09-05-2003, 09:02 AM   #5
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Hopefortoday HB User
Thumbs up

"And you wanna know what is the most stupid, crazy, ignorant thing about this? I never, I repeat NEVER got high. I kept trying, but it would NOT work. But did that stop me? Oh, no ~ the addict in me just kept thinking "More, More, More ~ it is bound to get you high since it does have the magic stuff in it." STUPID STUPID STUPID!"

I think the above quote is good news for all Suboxone users. And also reason to have something in place to help in recovery (NA, 12 steps, other recovery program, etc.) other than just the Suboxone.

 
Old 09-05-2003, 09:08 AM   #6
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WannaBnormal HB User
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Thanks for those replies

Do you all really think fessing up will be best? I was starting to think so I went and found the "sheet" from my last appointment (ya know the sheet that shows what they did for you that visit, what your new instructions are if any, and when your next appointment is?) so I could call up right away. Under the section that has new instructions/dosages it says:

"Please do not alter the dosage of your medication -- doing so will jeopardize our ability to continue treating you" http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dizzy.gif Now I'm really confused about what to do http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Thanks again for the advice and opinions. I value them more than you all can know. Or, maybe you can

LA


 
Old 09-05-2003, 09:16 AM   #7
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cousincatfish HB User
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Yes, just tell it like it is. You might want to go the route suggested about a higher dose, or come totally clean expaining you have a desease and you are sorry. either way I don't want to see you go through the pain till the 18th, it might lead to other acts of desperation
and I think the DR will know this, and ultimately feel the pressure of possible liability. So Chear up, get up, and go for it.
Your in respect
Catfish your cuz

[This message has been edited by cousincatfish (edited 09-05-2003).]

 
Old 09-05-2003, 09:21 AM   #8
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wannabe,
Don't beat yourself up. What you did is normal behavior for an addict. I do agree with what Jeffie said in that I know a lot of the docs are not prescribing large enough doses (especially in the beginning) to combat the physical cravings.

I think you should move your appointment up with your doc and go in and tell him exactly what happened (just like you told us here). Tell him the truth... that you will use again if you don't get back on the suboxone before the 18th. The cravings haven't hit you real hard yet because the s/b has an extremely long half life so you are probably not out of the woods as far as withdrawals are concerned (even though the W/Ds from s/b is supposed to be much less severe than from the typical opiates).

As far as the insurance issue is concerned, you need to address it head on and get it taken care of before it turns into a real problem.

Take care of yourself and please keep us posted on how you are doing.
verylucky

 
Old 09-05-2003, 10:19 AM   #9
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Talking

Well whats done is done! Um, why not tell the doctor,like you said, the pills wont make you high, but I dont know, anyway Stay strong and Good luck http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
__________________
trust in God!!

 
Old 09-05-2003, 10:23 AM   #10
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WannaBnormal HB User
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I made that leap and called http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif

~Left a message for the insurance/claims department to ask their advice on the info requested by my insurance company.

~Left another message for the "med" nurse (gotta go thru her before the doc or one of the other docs will call you themselves) explaining that I have a serious problem with the S/B and need to speak to someone.

~Also I made an appointment for Monday morning

I was wondering about the half-life of S/B so thanks Lucky for mentioning it (if it was not Lucky who said it, sorry! the old memory is going FAST!). After the 1st 24 hours without any I thought I was gonna be alright, but soon found out that no ~ things are not peachy-keen. I've been yawning like a fiend http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/yawn.gif and am so sluggish its no where near funny. Also I'm feeling a bit depressed again and boy I tell ya after feeling ok/normal for awhile it sucks going back to feeling even a little depressed and hopeless, ya know?

And yes ~ I am in danger of using hydro in this state. I'm not craving it actually right now, but I sure have thought about it more in the last 4-5 days than I did in the several weeks after starting S/B.

The stuff really works and I just hope I didnt mess up my chance to continue with it.

Thanks again for all the additional replies and any replies to come. You all are GREAT!

To quote someone who said it much better than I ever could, I am your friend in addiction and:
"Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I"
LA

 
Old 09-05-2003, 11:13 AM   #11
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H2OEng HB User
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I donít know that much about suboxone but unfortunately I know way too much about insurance laws and red tape. Iím not a lawyer nor am I in the insurance business so donít take this as the law; Iím just a dumb civil engineer that has waded through this pile of dung to often due to a sick wife. If you need more info on this one do a search under HIPAA or Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

Anyway after the little CYOA statement (sorry) this is it in a nutshell:

In 1996 the HIPAA act was passed and recently amended (hence all the new forms your filling out at the drís office and pharmacy). Under this act, your health insurance company cannot deny coverage provided you have a minimum of 18 months of credible coverage with no lapse greater than 63 days (COBRA does not count as a lapse in coverage) prior to changing insurance providers. This applies to pre existing conditions; provided you have the 18 months of prior coverage the insurance company cannot deny any claims for a preexisting condition. As long as you meet the requirements call your old provider and request a ďCertificate of Credible CoverageĒ, send it to your new provider, that should take care of the problems.

Now there are a few stipulations. One major problem with HIPAA is that this only applies to group coverage. Say your change from one job to another and have no lapse in coverage grater than 63 days, your covered under HIPA (i.e. no stipulations on pre existing conditions). Say you lose your job and pick up an individual policy then you can be denied coverage based on pre existing conditions. Group to group policy your fine, group to individual your SOL. Makes no sense but thatís our Government at work.

Good luck on the recovery, Iím in my 2nd week clean and starting to feel a little better. Went c/t from taking 10-15 percocets (10-350ís) a day for the past few years.

 
Old 09-05-2003, 11:14 AM   #12
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Gabbi HB User
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Hello,

I am glad you decided to face the problems head on, otherwise they only get worse. This step took a lot of courage & I'm glad you made it. Please keep us informed on how things go with the dr. TC
GAbbi

 
Old 09-05-2003, 01:18 PM   #13
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WannaBnormal HB User
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H2O ~ great info, thanks so much!

I'm not sure how it will work out since I dont fully understand all of the HIPAA stuff yet concerning the 63 days or less break, "waiting period", etc. My DH's old job ended on 12/2/02 (company went belly up ~ no fault of his) and he started his new job on 2/3/03. If the "waiting period" begins on the day of hire, then we just made it under the wire. If it doesnt begin then, we are screwed and will owe probably over $1500 to the doc Doesnt seem like alot to some people, but we are really struggling money-wise right now due to lingering effects of DH's lay off and me draining us dry thru my addicition

I'll have to get DH on the phone and have him speak to the HR department to find out. I hope the news is good. One less thing to worry about right now would be really nice

LA

 
Old 09-08-2003, 06:04 AM   #14
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Donít confuse the 63 day lapse addressed under HIPAA with the grace period at your DHís new employer. One has nothing to do with the other. You have 63 days between terminating one policy and being covered under a new policy. It makes no difference if your in a ďgraceĒ period or not, your either covered or your not. Everything in the insurace game is black and white, no gray.

FYI, most employers use the grace period prior to enrollment of insurance, as a way to save money while making sure that the new hire will work out. This grace period is typically not mandated by the insurance provider, itís a company (employer) policy. This policy CAN be waived in most instances.

It sounds like you may have missed your window under HIPAA. If you have a pre existing condition, know your policy. Get into the details. This knowledge and the proper attitude will save you major $$. Donít be afraid to make a few waves.

Donít allow the insurance company to just deny a claim. You can dispute any denial from the insurance company. Donít be scared to chew your way to the top, just make sure you know what your talking about before getting to much of an attitude. I think Ĺ the supervisors at my insurance company know me be the sound of my voice (more like roar).

Talk to your doctors about the codes they use when billing the insurance company, they can usually bill things under several different codes (properly and without lying). This alone can get things approved sometimes.

The one thing I've learned over the past 5 years with my wife's medical problems (cancer x3, lupus and on and on) is this, you just need to know how to play their game if you intend on winning! Knowlege is king! Good luck with it.

 
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