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Old 10-27-2004, 06:41 AM   #1
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How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Sugars I understand, but what about bread and milk and caffeine? Or even masturbation? Do they raise our hormone levels as well?

 
Old 10-27-2004, 07:07 AM   #2
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Okay, the bread, from what I can figure out, contains enriched flour. It's something in that enriched flour that can cause acne to flare up. Now EXACTLY what "that" is, I don't know. On the milk, it's the hormones from the cow (from what I gather) that are in the milk that can cause acne to flare up in some people. I'm not sure if there are any hormones that are added to milk once it is taken from the cow. I have bought organic milk before that claims that it has no added hormones, so I guess that means that there could be hormones added after the milk is produced by the cow???? Sorry, I can't be anymore specific. That is just general info I have gotten from other boards relating to acne. However, I will say this-I have drank regular fat free milk and fat free organic milk. Neither have broken me out. The organic milk didn't help my acne either, so I guess milk has no effect on my acne.

Masturbation....I've heard people say that it affects acne, but I just don't believe that. Just my opinion.

 
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Old 10-27-2004, 08:26 AM   #3
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Dude
Sugars I understand, but what about bread and milk and caffeine? Or even masturbation? Do they raise our hormone levels as well?
Yes, sex does raise your hormones, but that's why males may have good luck taking zinc (antiandrogenic & anti-inflammatory) as this is what is found in your....um stuff.

As for the bread and dairy, it's the same philosophy as the added & refined sugars, they both contain sugars (dairy = lactose) and bread = carbohydrates = sugar. While some people can do just fine by switching to whole grain breads or sprouted breads, others, like myself, found that Wheat/gluten is particularly troublesome for them.

Also, the dairy from cows milk contains more whey than it does in human milk, which can raise your IGF-1 levels. Regardless of wether it's organic or regular milk, the milk contains IGF-1, but "regular" milk has EXTRA IGF-1 due to the growth hormones they inject the cows with and artificial insemination to keep them constantly pregnant (otherwise you wouldn't have milk or beef).

So what happens with the bread and dairy and trans fats, is that they will raise your IGF-1 levels, which is responsible for (normal) growth of cells, tumors, etc. Bread/sugars, because they raise your Insulin Levels will also lower your IGFBP-3 which binds IGF-1. Also, because of those raised Insulin Levels it will reduce your Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), which is responsible for binding Free Androgens/Testosterone. If you don't have enough SHBG, then you will probably find that you have hyperandrogenism, or in otherwords, lots of testosterone & DHT (in conjunction w/IGF-1) to wreak havok on your skin, hair, prostate, etc.

There's other foods that can be problematic, but scientifically these are the main ones that are attributed to messing with our hormones. Of course lots of fiber, (most) fruit, vegetables, (nuts), seeds, legumes, (certain grains) and lean meats & fish will do the opposite, or rather, balance the imbalance =)

Last edited by SweetJade1; 10-27-2004 at 08:38 AM.

 
Old 10-27-2004, 08:49 AM   #4
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Thanks sweetjade!

Wow, I guess I was way off on the bread and milk thing. Oh well.. By the way, is that you I see on another acne message board? Hope you don't mind me asking..

PBABY

 
Old 10-27-2004, 06:12 PM   #5
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

S Jade if your food theory is true, then how do you explain my brother, who drank at least a gallon of milk a day and sometimes much more and never got a pimple ? Or the guy who posted here who said he had clear skin when he ate nothing but junk, but when he ate lots of vegetables and exercised his face had bad acne ?

 
Old 10-27-2004, 07:22 PM   #6
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by openseason
S Jade if your food theory is true, then how do you explain my brother, who drank at least a gallon of milk a day and sometimes much more and never got a pimple ? Or the guy who posted here who said he had clear skin when he ate nothing but junk, but when he ate lots of vegetables and exercised his face had bad acne ?
Well, It's probably due to the same reason why I can eat all the junk I want and not gain a pound, where as many others will probably gain 10.

Yet, OH MY, for some "reason", others can eat all the junk they want and not breakout, where as if I, and others around here, did the same, we'll end up with all the zits that we "want"

I guess there's always some sort of trade off.

So when common sense fails ya, just remember that in the world of gene-environment interactions and PLENTY of supporting scientific evidence, that yeah, our genes play a role in HOW our environment affects us too ;-)

Last edited by SweetJade1; 10-27-2004 at 09:18 PM.

 
Old 10-27-2004, 07:24 PM   #7
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBABY
Thanks sweetjade!

Wow, I guess I was way off on the bread and milk thing. Oh well.. By the way, is that you I see on another acne message board? Hope you don't mind me asking..

PBABY
LOL, I'm around here and there, but you weren't way off at all =).

 
Old 10-27-2004, 10:57 PM   #8
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Joe,
Caffiene also raises your IGF-1 levels, but only you can determine how sensitive you are to caffiene. I rarely get it in my diet unless I'm eating a bit of dark chocoloate, coffee or tea, otherwise...no primary sources of caffiene in my diet.

Also, I don't know how much of this you will be able to understand, but this is just to show you the facts based around my "theory":

The androgenic profile of women with non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. - 2004
"The serum levels of FSH, LH, estradiol, total testosterone, androstenedione and DHEAS were significantly higher in diabetic [Type II] patients than in the control group (p < 0.05). In contrast, the levels of SHBG were lower in diabetic [Type II] patients (p < 0.05)."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=15493567[/url]



What may be the markers of the male equivalent of polycystic ovary syndrome? - 2004
"It was possible to form two subgroups. The first one showed similar hormonal changes as women with PCOS, the other had either no anomalies in steroid spectrum or just only lower level of sexual hormones binding globulin (SHBG)."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=15209536[/url]



Glucose and insulin components of the metabolic syndrome are associated with hyperandrogenism in postmenopausal women: the atherosclerosis risk in communities study. - 2004
"Higher FAI was associated with the hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia components of the metabolic syndrome"

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=15353414[/url]



***Testosterone and sex hormone-binding globulin predict the metabolic syndrome and diabetes in middle-aged men.- 2004
"Low total testosterone and SHBG levels independently predict development of the metabolic syndrome and diabetes in middle-aged men."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=15111517[/url]



Prostate cancer: another aspect of the insulin-resistance syndrome? - 2004
"Men adopting a low-fat diet and daily exercise reduced their levels of serum insulin and IGF-1, while increasing their levels of IGFBP-1 and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=12458975[/url]



Dietary composition in restoring reproductive and metabolic physiology in overweight women with polycystic ovary syndrome. - 2003
“On the LP [(55% carbohydrate and 15% protein)] diet, high density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased 10% during energy restriction (P = 0.008), and the free androgen index increased 44% in weight maintenance stages (P = 0.027).”

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=12574218[/url]



Effect of rosiglitazone on spontaneous and clomiphene citrate-induced ovulation in women with polycystic ovary syndrome. - 2003
"Rosiglitazone [Avandia] therapy improves insulin sensitivity and decreases hyperandrogenemia primarily through increases in SHBG."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=12620440[/url]



Dietary correlates of plasma insulin-like growth factor I and insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3 concentrations - 2002
"Higher fat intake, in particular saturated fat, was associated with lower levels of IGFBP-3. We conclude that higher energy, protein, and milk intakes were associated with higher levels of IGF-I. These associations raise the possibility that diet could affect cancer risk through influencing IGF-I level."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=12223429[/url]



Reducing bioavailable sex hormones through a comprehensive change in diet: the diet and androgens (DIANA) randomized trial. – 2001 “In the intervention group, sex hormone-binding globulin increased significantly (from 36.0 to 45.1 nmol/liter) compared with the control group (25 versus 4%,; P < 0.0001) and serum testosterone decreased (from 0.41 to 0.33 ng/ml; -20 versus -7% in control group; P = 0.0038).”

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=11205485[/url]



Postprandial changes in sex hormones after meals of different composition. - 2001
“There was a significant decrease in testosterone and free androgen index after both tofu and lean meat meals [in male test subjects]”

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=11319710[/url]



The effects of metformin and diet on plasma testosterone and leptin levels in obese men. - 2001
"We conclude that metformin treatment combined with a hypocaloric diet leads to reduced FT levels in obese nondiabetic men and to reduced TT levels in obese men with type 2 diabetes. Increased SHBG levels may account for the decrease in FT levels in the former group."

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=11707532[/url]



Metformin therapy decreases hyperandrogenism and hyperinsulinemia in women with polycystic ovary syndrome. - 2000
"Metformin treatment of women with PCOS results in a decline of insulin as well as total and bioavailable T, leading to significant improvement of clinical manifestations of hyperandrogenism"

[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=10856473[/url]



Association of dietary factors and selected plasma variables with sex hormone-binding globulin in rural Chinese women. - 1996
"the strongest predictors of SHBG concentrations were the dietary intake of rice (beta = 0.42, P < 0.01), fish (beta = 0.34, P < 0.05), millet (beta = -0.27, P < 0.01), and wheat (beta = -0.34, P < 0.01). "

In other words, Rice RAISED SHBG, while Wheat LOWERED SHBG! =0
[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=8604665[/url]



KEY:
IGF-1 - Insulin-like Growth Factor. Multiple jobs including reducing the amount of Insulin in the blood stream. Considered the "super insulin' and responds whenever Estradiol or DHT (dihydrotestosterone) require it's assistance in stimulating cell or even tumor growth.

IGFBP-1,2,3 - Insulin Like Growth Factor Binding Proteins - bind IGF-1, IGF-2

FAI or FT - Free Androgen Index, also known as Free Testosterone. Converts into DHT, which is responsible for sebum gland growth, sebum secretion, etc.

SHBG - Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, has a higher affinity for binding Free Testosterone, rendering it inactive. Multiple studies have shown that SHBG has an inverse relationship with Insulin.

Total Testosterone (T) - All 5 forms of testosterone. Can show up as normal, but that doesn't mean that you aren't producing too much of one form.

Estradiol (E2) - the more active/potent, yet sometimes "bad" Estrogen form. Works wonders in birth control for some women with acne because estrogen & SHBG have a direct relationship. Raise your estrogen levels and you will raise your SHBG.

DHEA-S - dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate. This is the bound & usually inactive form of DHEA and is considered an adrenal androgen.

Androstenedione - another form of testosterone/androgen

LH - Luteinizing Hormone

FSH - Follicle Stimulating Hormone

HDL - High Density Lipoprotein, otherwise known as the "good cholesterol"

LDL - Low Density Lipoprotein, otherwise known as the "bad cholesterol"


***For males it's a bit confusing because Testosterone is your primary hormone so SHBG levels can be higher or lower and your total testosterone can be higher or lower. Yet usually Free Testosterone will be higher when your SHBG is lower (which some men prefer libido wise).

Oh and the most brilliant thing about having Insulin Resistance, Metabolic Syndrome, or Hyperandrogenisim, is that you may never know until it's too late. This is particularly true with hyperandrogenisim because you do not have to have acne, hirstuism or androgenic alopecia as your warning signs. Nope, you can have obesity, menstrual or fertility problems, rheumatoid arthritis, some other skin condition, heart disease, or cancer. That's what makes the human body so absolutely brilliant! There's not always the same predictable response to the same stimuli in....basically the same, but geneticially different individuals.

Last edited by SweetJade1; 10-28-2004 at 01:02 AM.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 03:07 AM   #9
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Thanks for all the information.So what you're basically saying is that acne is not a disease itself but a cause of a disorder, a hormonal disorder? Certain foods containing wheat, dairy and sugars raise your IGF 1 levels. It also reduces the SHBG levels which in other words means an exessive production of testosterone?So in order to keep your insulin levels balanced, you have to avoid all the factors raising your insulin levels.But what if food alone won't do it, is that when one has to start taking supplements to give that one boost the hormones need?

 
Old 10-28-2004, 06:54 AM   #10
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

As for masturbation, it does cause your hormones to rise, but for me at least, it has never caused an increase in acne. I recently read an explanation on how masturbation can in no way cause/increase your acne, and it made a lot of sense. In my personal opinion, I don’t think there is any connection, but its different for everyone so its hard to say.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 08:18 AM   #11
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Joe,
Absolutely! I've NEVER come across anything that says that acne is it's own disease. Acne, just like a cough or the chicken pox, is a sign or symptom of something attacking, wrong, or imbalanced in our system. As such, it's always been linked to the wrong skin care, microorganisms, toxins, allergies, intolerances, health problems, hormonal imbalances, or turmors.

Now, I've heard that 90% of acne sufferers have an androgen receptor defect, thus boosting DHT production only in the skin, yet that defect may not always produce acne as eczema, psoriasis, seborrhea, androgenic alopecia, or hirsuitism can also be due to heightened androgen sensitivity. The other 10% have hyperandrogenism, but I wonder if that number is larger now (due to high Free Testoserone levels) and I wonder how many chronic acne sufferers on this board would fall into that category.

Either way, if the proper dietary changes for you alone doesn't work by reducing your overall steriod hormone production and inflammatory prostaglandins, then you can move onto supplements and even medication. If you noticed I mentioned two forms of Insulin Sensitizers up there Avandia/Rosiglitazone (better tolerated) and Metaformin/Glucophage and the studies show how those affect the very factors that our diet does. There's also insulin sensitizing supplements such as Green Tea, NAC, R-ALA, Chromium GTF that also happen to do the very thing and as such can be considered antiandrogenic and even DHT inhibiting!

However added sugar and certain other carbohydrates aren't the only factor, you have to watch your cholesterol as well. From the saturated fats (from animal protein) and especially the Trans Fats (from processed, refined,packaged foods) our bodies will convert that into LDL Cholesterol and inflammatory Prostaglandins plus raise our IGF-1. Not to mention, the more fats that competes with sugar in our blood stream for cell uptake, the more your Insulin Resistance increase. Plus, steriod hormones are synthesized from cholesterol, and while that's a neccessary thing, this may explain why some of us are fully capable of having normal cholesterol levels and be underweight, yet have tons of acne =( Of course, this is probably why Niacin, R-ALA, NAC, Green Tea, Fish Oils, Neptune Kril Oil, Glucomannon Fiber, and B5 Therapy are quite popular.

If supplements aren't enough, then there's medications one can take. A study in 1984 stated that "Antiandrogens have been demonstrated to be beneficial in treating 5 clinical syndromes or diseases: acne, seborrhea, hirsutism with or without menstrual abnormalities; precocious puberty; benign prostatic hypertrophy; cancer of the prostate; and sexual deviates" [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=6205409[/url]

Since acne is usually due to androgen production and whether you are hyperandrogenic or have a skin recepter defect (which I rarely hear about) you will still respond to a decrease in your overall androgens, other antiandrogens, or by taking Type I DHT Inhibitors (oral or topically). Spironolactone is the most popular antiandrogen and most males, while they don't always like the side effects, find 25mg - 100mg enough to get them 100% clear. The other options are Estrogen primarily from BC or Progesterone (NPC Cream, Vitex). Supplements would be GLA (Omega 6), EPA (Omega 3), Green Tea (EGCG), Curcumin (Tumeric), NAC, Zinc, Zinc + B6 (Pyridoxal or Pyridoxamine ONLY), Saw Palmetto, or Beta Sitosterol (1000x more potent than saw palmetto). Ooops and I almost forgot the most popular of antiandrogens & DHT Inhibitors, the retinoids. Topical - RetinA, Azelex, Isotrex and Oral - Accutane!

Of course, most people do things backwords. I did the medications first and found that wasn't enough. Then I switched to the Insulin Sensitizers and that still wasn't sufficient enough. Yet when I altered my diet, based on my hormonal imbalance & diagnosis, that WAS enough. Most people that alter their diets don't know whether they are IR or not, but studies have shown that you can still respond to treatment even if you are not...so the test may be a bit too exclusive. I avoid quite a bit of food, primarily refined, and am only 99% clear, but the medications wouldn't do even that much for me =( Others avoid the same amount or less, probably better at it than I, and as such are 100% clear! Oh and usually we end up avoiding some of the foods that fall under the top allergen or intolerant foods, along with the refined foods, but most of us aren't allergic or intolerant to these foods!

Last edited by SweetJade1; 10-28-2004 at 09:00 AM.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 08:50 AM   #12
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

When I stopped drinking milk I stopped getting those big cystic break-outs. I don't know if it coincided with just the change in hormone levels bc of my age or whatever, but i did notice a difference in my skin when I stopped drinking it everyday.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 05:21 PM   #13
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Coffee causes inflamation of the blood, and even one cup per day increases your risk for heart attack. From a brand new study.

 
Old 10-29-2004, 01:33 AM   #14
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

What about proteins? Do those raise your insulin levels as well? If not, then I guess cooked eggs are not that bad to have ?

 
Old 10-29-2004, 07:33 AM   #15
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Re: How does bread & dairy contribute to having acne?

Well that depends on your diet philosophy & personal experience. If you follow the paleodiet, then cooked eggs are bad for you. I eat them cooked, scrambled usually, and I haven't noticed any problems, but I'm not looking for it either. I don't eat eggs very often, so I can't tell you if they affect me personally.

Now protein is a good thing. But, if you are getting it from animal protein, and it's not as lean as it should be, then you may find the opposite to be true. I don't worry about animal fat, but at least 50% of the time when I'm eating meat it is lean meat. Of course the fat from fish is not a problem because it has omega 3s ;-)

Generally a Low - Moderate Carbhoydrate diet is all you need in terms of your sugar. If you follow a moderate carb diet (45% - 55%) you'll make up the other part in 25%- 35% protein and 20% or less in (good) fat. I don't calorie count or carb count, but generally what's high in calories (which can boost IR), is also high in problematic carbohydrates or fats. If you were to follow the USDA food pyramid the way that we eat (several servings per meal, added sugars, refined grains), I wouldn't be surprised to see most people consuming up to 800g of carbohydrates or more a day.

I once counted up my diet and it went from 400 - 600g of carbs daily to 200 - 300g of carbs daily just by switching the type & quality of my carbohydrates! I eat what I want in terms of vegetables and the fruits that I can tolerate, I eat starchy vegetables, starchy gluten-free grains, seeds, a few legumes, and animal protein, & good fats. It worked to get my skin 99% clear, majorly reduced my sebum, shrank my pores, eliminated my menstrual pains and YES, I definately have hyperandrogenism driving my hormonal acne...which is now reduced ;-)

 
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