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Old 12-20-2004, 06:50 PM   #1
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Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Hello,
I recently visited an Endocrinologist and he prescribed Avodart (im currently taking proscar) for my hair loss and Accutane (my 3rd course, i will be on it a few months at a normal dose then he will put me on long-term, low-dose if all goes well). If not he will give me Spiro, but he said better to try Accutane because of the potential side effects of Spiro.
Anyone here ever take Avodart and Accutane at the same time?
just curious
michael

 
Old 12-26-2004, 08:26 PM   #2
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

anyone here on avodart?

 
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Old 12-27-2004, 06:07 AM   #3
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

And my endocrinologist always says how wonderful spiro is because there is no risk to the liver or kidneys I hate conflicting opinions in medicine!

 
Old 12-27-2004, 09:24 AM   #4
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

very few people have tried avodart. If you are a male you are much more likely to get prescribed this than a female because as with accutane, they don't want us to get preganant, and in this case with a male, and cause him birth defects (as in less masculine).

Avodart is the same thing as Duatsteride which is supposed to be a 99% Type I & Type II 5-alpha reductase enzyme inhibitor. these enzyms are responsible for the production of DHT, which is supposed to be the BIG bad guy when it comes to acne. However i've heard conflicting results about this drug. It may help with your hairloss, and it may even help with your acne, but some people that NEVER had acne were taking this and it actually gave them a form of acne. Yet, you will be on accutane so you may not get any new acne because of that.

If I was an endocrinologist, knowing that accutane isn't usually permanent, wich in your case seems to be true, I would have given you spiro especially since you've already been given something more potent than Spiro, Avodart, and that has not at all been approved for acne (which is why you are getting if for alopecia). Spiro has never broken anyone out, and it actually seems safer to me, with less physical side effects (no hair loss, extremely dry skin, lips, etc)

So tell me something, why are you going on a 3rd course of accutane? How long did the 1st 2 courses last for you? Did they ever clear you 100%? I ask this because people that accutane doesn't clear, and these people have goine on up to 5 treatments, probably have an underlying hormonal disorder. There are studies with accutane and males that have also further supported this by testing their testosterone levels and found that the males that didn't "take" to accutane had (possibly insulin resistance or hypothyroid induced) Hyperandrogenism or Adrenal Disorder induced hyperandrogensm, which would help explain your androgenic alopeica/male patterned baldness (??). So I'm just wondering if you really think it's worth a 3rd try? Do you actually have a hormonal disorder or have ever been tested to see if you do? If you do, Spiro would be a much better bet for it (especially if avodart does'nt work) or glucocorticoids (if it's adrenal related).

Best of luck

Last edited by SweetJade1; 12-27-2004 at 09:34 AM.

 
Old 12-27-2004, 09:47 AM   #5
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

OK, to further expound on what I'm saying about accutane, it is a growth inihbitor (hence it's uses as a cancer treatment) and probably why it reduces your sebum production & pore size, but it's also an androgen antagonsit in 3 ways (reduces total testosterone, DHT & 3 alpha diol G). However it's androgen antagonizing abilites are not permanent, they cease once treatment ceases, so if accutane truely works for people (and they just didn't grow out of getting acne), it probably has something to do with it's growth inhibiting (IGF-1) abilities.

Quote:
Acta Derm Venereol. 1997 Sep;77(5):394-6. Related Articles, Links


Isotretinoin, tetracycline and circulating hormones in acne.

Palatsi R, Ruokonen A, Oikarinen A.

Department of Dermatology, University Central Hospital, Oulu, Finland.

Isotretinoin, used to treat severe acne, has been shown to induce hormonal changes, especially to reduce 5 alpha-reductase in the production of the tissue-derived dihydrotestosterone (DHT) metabolite 3 alpha-Adiol G. However, the effects of isotretinoin on other pituitary, adrenal or gonadal hormones have not been thoroughly elucidated. In the present study, isotretinoin administered at a dose of 0.5 mg/kg/day for 4 weeks caused no marked changes in the serum levels of pituitary, adrenal or gonadal hormones or 3 alpha-Adiol G in patients with severe papulopustulotic acne (n = 19). After 12 weeks of therapy, there was a decrease in the levels of the precursor androgens androstenedione, testosterone and 3 alpha-Adiol G in 6/9 patients. Acne improved after 4.5 months in all but 2 male patients, who had very low serum hormone binding globulins (SHBG) and a high free androgen index (FAI). Isotretinoin did not affect the elevated LH/FSH ratio in a patient with the polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS); nor did it change the high FAI or low SHBG in the male patients. For comparison, tetracycline had no effects on the serum hormonal levels of patients with mild acne (n = 19) after 7 days of treatment. This study confirms that the effects of isotretinoin on the serum hormone levels are small and unlikely to be of relevance for the resolution of acne or the suppression of sebum excretion.
[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=9298137[/url]
So above with what I underlined & bolded are examples of hormonal disorders that accutane doesn't have any effect on. Women & Men can both have high & lows in those areas though, and I personally have high FAI (Free Androgen Index/ or Free Testosterone) and as such probalby a low SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) which go hand-in-hand (SHBG binds FA). I personally never took accutane (afraid of side effects) but I see that I probably wouldn't have been helped anyway. Yet some people that have hormonal disorders did find that accutane helped reduce/eliminate a type of acne for them, so I suppose even if you do have a hormonal disorder you could try it. At the same time, usually if you just treat your hormnal disoder....you wouldn't need the accutane ;-)


Quote:
Ann Dermatol Venereol. 1999 Jan;126(1):17-9. Related Articles, Links

[Acne in the male resistant to isotretinoin and responsibility of androgens: 9 cases, therapeutic implications]

[Article in French]

Chaspoux C, Lehucher-Ceyrac D, Morel P, Lefrancq H, Boudou P, Fiet J, Vexiau P.

Service d'Endocrinologie, Hopital Saint-Louis, Paris.

INTRODUCTION: Treatment failures with isotretinoin in female patients are frequently related to endocrinological dysfunctions. Such a concept has never been discussed in male patients. CASE REPORTS: An extensive endocrinological work-up has been performed in nine male patients who presented with an acne refractory to conventional treatment and to isotretinoin. Adrenal dysfunction was found in four patients and isolated 5-alpha reductase hyperactivity in 2 cases. Three work-ups were normal. A suppressive treatment in three patients with adrenal dysfunction provided immediate efficacy. COMMENTS: These results would provide insight into the mechanism of refractory acne in men.
[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=10095884[/url]

Last edited by SweetJade1; 12-27-2004 at 09:48 AM.

 
Old 12-27-2004, 10:27 AM   #6
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Thanx for your response SweetJade

My Endocrinologist prescribed the Avodart for my hairloss only. He said that although he thought Avodart would help w/ acne, his experience w/ past patients told him it didn't help.

I have taken two courses of Accutane (both full, four moth courses). One six years ago which cleared me completely (head to toe; I get acne everywhere, from my scalp to my thighs). I stayed clear for about a year and a half and then It began to come back, but not as strong as before the Accutane. The large cystic-type acne I used to get before the Accutane on my face (forehead) and back never returned. But little by little it returned on my scalp, arms, butt, thighs (other areas as well but those are the worst).

Then in the spring of 2003 I took Accutane again, but at a higher dosage. I weigh around 180 pounds (im male) and was taking 80mg a day for the first full course. In spring 2003, I was the same weight but taking around 120 a day (hoping the higher dosage would end my acne). For whatever reason the second course did virtually nothing as my acne remained the same if not a bit worse.

All this I explained to my Endocrinologist (who I saw for the first time last week). He said he has has good results w/ a full course of Accutane followed by a low maintenance dose of around 10mg a day or so (whatever would be right for me). He said the Accutane, especially me because I'm male, will have less side effects that Spiro, so better to try that first rather than the Spiro.

We all know of the possible side effects for men taking Spiro, so I won't bother to mention. But he did leave it up to me, he would have prescribed Spiro, but he recommended the Accutane, so I decided to try that route.

I don't know if I have a specific hormonal disorder, although I'm sure I do. Im 31 and have had acne since I was 14. I get it all over my body and my common sense tells me there is something internally wrong.

My Endocrinologist did not test me to see what hormonal disorder I might have, although I know he feels its hormonal. I know I should have asked him to be tested for all the hormonal issues (thyroid, dht, etc.).

During my next visit I'd like to ask to have the tests done. I assume blood work is needed. All he did was give me a quick medical exam. Could you PLEASE tell me what tests to have done and I tell him next visit.

Thanx for your help,
michael

 
Old 12-27-2004, 02:12 PM   #7
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Oh yeah, definately get your endocrinologist to do some blood work. I'm really surprised that he doesn't want to give you spiro due to it's (libido reducing) side effects, when you were taking Proscar and are now on Avodart. Don't those also affect your libido, as I've read that proscar does???

As for the blood tests, well he'll probably run a Male Panel on you which will include your PSA, you Androgens (will include DHT), estrogen, progesterone, along with a liver panel, CBC (complete blood count), and lipid profile. Yet every lab is different, but those are the usual tests run, in particular when taking medication that can mess with your liver.

Now, if you read the last abstract I posted, it mentions that males that accutane didn't work for had either an adrenal dysfunction or had high levels of 5-alpha reductase. Well, you can have a "normal" total testosterone levels, as I do, and yet still have high levels of a form of testosterone. Usually it's going to be DHEA or DHEA-S or Free Androgens that wil be high. Of course, that means that you will probably have high levels of DHT and 3-alpha diol-G which, are supposed to responsible for acne, hirsutism, sebum production, alopecia, and prostate & breast growth problems (like cancer).

Hormonal disorders that you could be checked for may involve one or more of the following: Pituitary, Thyroid, Adrenal gland, Gonads (testes or ovaries), or Liver/Pancreas. It could be a genetic defect, sensitivity, tumor, or greatly influenced (not always caused) by something in your lifestyle (toxins in environment, diet, nutrient deficiency, etc).

So when you think of acne, well when I do, two major forms of treatments come to mind: Androgen Antagonists and Anti-inflammatories. Well it turns out that is basically what happens when you have hormonal disorder (or health problem) that is giving you acne. It usually increases your androgens and/or inflammatory product production!


Basic Hyperandrogenism
Tumor or defect in testes or ovary production

Health/Hormonal Disorder Induced Hyperandrogenism
Adrenal Disorders:
-- Non-classical congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (NCCAH) or Late-onset adrenal hyperplasia (LOCAH) - too little cortisol could mean too much of the other steriod hormones being produced as a result of the body TRYING to produce more cortisol. There's 5 possible enzyme defects here.

-- Hypercortisolism / Cushings Syndrome - too much cortisol could mean too much of the other steriod hormones being produced as well

-- Hypocortisolism / Addison's Disease - probably similar to NCCAH/LOCAH

Thyroid:
-- Hyperthyroidism / Grave's Disease - not as common for acne, but doctors will usually test this before ANY other hormonal tests (???)

-- Hypothyroidism - more common for acne as it leads to a reduction of SHBG & increased inflammatory products.

-- Thyroiditis / Hashimoto's Thyroiditis - should be the same as for hypothyroidsim

Liver/Pancreas:
-- Insulin Resistance - reduces SHBG & increases inflammatory products
-- Diabetes Type II
-- High Cholesterol - contribute to inflammatory products

Last edited by SweetJade1; 12-27-2004 at 02:27 PM.

 
Old 12-27-2004, 02:38 PM   #8
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

As far as hormone specific tests, below are hormonal tests that should be run to help with a variety of hormonal diagnosis. This is just a fraction of what my endocrinologist tested me for, but these are the ranges from my hospital's lab, unless otherwise noted:

Cortisol:
AM (7-9pm) serum 4.30 - 22.40 ug/ml
PM (3-5pm) serum 3.09 - 16.66 ug/ml

17-Hydroxycorticosteroid Progesterone (17-OHPS): serum
Male 0.4 - 3.3 ng/ml
Follicular Phase 0.1 - 1.2 ng/ml
Luteal Phase 0.4 - 4.8 ng/ml
(Brook Army Medical Center)

17- Alpha Hydroxycorticosteroid Progesterone (17A-OHPS): serum
Male 0.4 - 3.3 ng/ml
Follicular Phase 0.1 - 1.2 ng/ml
Luteal Phase 0.4 - 4.8 ng/ml
Oral Contraceptives up to 1.2 ng/ml
Postmenopausal up to 0.6 ng/ml
Children (1 - 15 years) up to 3.0 ng/ml
(Brook Army Medical Center)

11-Deoxycortisol (11-DOC)
Males and Females 20 - 130 ng/dl
Post Metyrapone >5000 ng/dl (5 ug/dl)
Post ACTH (60 min. after stimulation)
Males & Premenopausal Females (Follicular) 82 - 290 ng/dl
(Quest Laboratories)

Adrenocorticotrophic Hormone (ACTH):
Plasma 10 - 52 pg/ml

Glucose: Serum 70 - 105 mg/dl

Prolactin (Serum):
Males 2.1 - 17.7 ng/ml
Nonpregnant 2.8 - 29.2 ng/ml
Pregnant 9.7 - 208.5 ng/ml
Postmenopausal 1.8 - 20.3 ng/ml

Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH):
Males (13 -70 years) 1.4 - 18.1 mIU/ml
Normally Menstruating
Follicular Phase 2.5 - 10.2 mIU/ml
Midcycle Peak 3.4 - 33.4 mIU/ml
Luteal Phase 1.5 - 9.1 mIU/ml
Pregnant <0.3 mIU/ml
Postmenopausal 23 - 116.3 mIU/ml

Luteinizing Hormone (LH):
Males
20 -70 years 1.5 - 9.3 mIU/ml
>70 years 3.1 - 34.6
Normally Menstruating
Follicular Phase 1.9 - 12.5 mIU/ml
Midcycle Peak 8.7 - 76.3 mIU/ml
Oral Contraceptives[/u] 0.7 - 5.6 mIU/ml
Pregnant <0.1 - 1.5 mIU/ml
Postmenopausal 15.9 - 54 mIU/ml

Estrodial:
Males ND - 52 pg/ml
Postmenopausal (untreated) ND - 37 pg/ml
Menstruating
Follicular Phase
(-12) 11 - 69 pg/ml
(-4) 63 - 165 pg/ml
Midcylce (-1) 146 - 526 pg/ml
Luteal Phase
(+2) 33 - 150 pg/ml
(+6) 68 - 196 pg/ml
(+12) 36 - 133 pg/ml

ND = No detection


Thyroid Stimulating Hormone
(TSH) Sensitive
: Serum 0.35 - 5.5 uIU/ml

T4 FREE: serum 0.89 - 1.76 ng/dl

T3 FREE: serum 230 - 420 pg/dl
(Smithkline Laboratories)

Thyroxine Total: serum 4.5 - 12.5 mcg/dl
(Quest Laboratories)

Inhibin: serum
Males < 21 pg/ml
Postmenopausal < 98 pg/ml
Premenopausal < 10 pg/ml
(Quest Laboratories)

DHEA Sulfate: serum
Adult Male 80 - 560 ug/dl
Adult Female 35 - 430 ug/dl
Postmenopausal 10 - 190 ug/dl

BETA HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin): serum pregnancy test
Positive >25 mIU/ml
Indeterminate 5 - 25 mIU/ml
Negative <5 mIU/ml


If what you want isn't here, then do a search for hormone reference ranges/levels and a variety of sites will provide the info you need.


I'll be back to update this with the androgen reference ranges. =)

 
Old 12-27-2004, 04:22 PM   #9
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Hey SweetJade how's it going , wow it's good to see that you are still here helping people out with your amazing knowledge. I don't know what a lot of us would do without your insight! Well I was just browsing the forum and have stumbled on a lot of info regarding anti-androgens especially amongst your post and it is beginning to really interest me as I am convinced my acne is hormonal. In your last post you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetJade1
So when you think of acne, well when I do, two major forms of treatments come to mind: Androgen Antagonists and Anti-inflammatories. Well it turns out that is basically what happens when you have hormonal disorder (or health problem) that is giving you acne. It usually increases your androgens and/or inflammatory product production!
Do you know how effective these A/As are at preventing acne and do you have any info regarding the types available, preferably in natural form. I have read that Saw Palmetto is an A/A but many people have suffered from Thyroid problems as a result? So how risky is A/A use and does it need to be carefully monitored by a doc?

Thanks in advance for any info and good to see ya again

Last edited by Neca; 12-27-2004 at 04:24 PM.

 
Old 12-27-2004, 05:04 PM   #10
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

I'm a 36yo male and I just started my 4th course of Accutane (the first two times I was on a low dose, the third time I did 80mg all throughout which was 6 years ago). My acne has been getting worse over the last year (probably because I went back to school full-time and under stress most of the time) and wanted to buy myself some more time. I've had an acne problem related to simple sugars for half my life and eat pretty strictly like many on this board do. I too believe that it is hormonally related and thought about the 5-alpha reductase theory but have never had alopecia - so I suspect it may not be that. I can understand now how it would be a good idea to have broad spectrum endocrine level testing done to find out if there is something out of whack. Hope all works out well for everyone!!
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:43 PM   #11
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon68
I'm a 36yo male and I just started my 4th course of Accutane (the first two times I was on a low dose, the third time I did 80mg all throughout which was 6 years ago). My acne has been getting worse over the last year (probably because I went back to school full-time and under stress most of the time) and wanted to buy myself some more time. I've had an acne problem related to simple sugars for half my life and eat pretty strictly like many on this board do. I too believe that it is hormonally related and thought about the 5-alpha reductase theory but have never had alopecia - so I suspect it may not be that. I can understand now how it would be a good idea to have broad spectrum endocrine level testing done to find out if there is something out of whack. Hope all works out well for everyone!!
Hey newbie =) First all, you do NOT have to have androgenic alopecia to have a hormonal disorder, particularly one relating to hyperandrogenism. Androgens aren't just responsible for androgenic alopecia, hirsutism & acne, but also ezcema & psoriasis (& rosacea), rheumatoid arthritis, certain cancers, and even obesity. So when you think that someone is getting away with eating too much sugars, for example, because they don't have acne, they may not be getting away with anything. There's always more than one reaction to a particular...aggrevator or hormonal disorder.

2nd of all, if you know that your problem is simple sugars, why do you eat them? ;-) If you know that it IS sugar, then why not take an Insulin Sensitizing drug (Avandia or Metaformin) instead of actually thinking that another course of accutane is going to help you. Have you ever had your blood sugar & insulin levels checked? Does anyone in your family have high cholesterol, weight problems, or Type II Diabetes or Insulin Resistance???

This is my problem, Insulin Resistance Syndrome, also now known as Metabolic Syndrome induced Hyperandrogenism. Avandia wasn't enough for me, as I found my dietary changes to be far superior, but everyone is different and it may be the answer that you need. =)

Last edited by SweetJade1; 12-27-2004 at 09:46 PM.

 
Old 12-27-2004, 10:00 PM   #12
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neca
Hey SweetJade how's it going , wow it's good to see that you are still here helping people out with your amazing knowledge. I don't know what a lot of us would do without your insight! Well I was just browsing the forum and have stumbled on a lot of info regarding anti-androgens especially amongst your post and it is beginning to really interest me as I am convinced my acne is hormonal. In your last post you wrote:



Do you know how effective these A/As are at preventing acne and do you have any info regarding the types available, preferably in natural form. I have read that Saw Palmetto is an A/A but many people have suffered from Thyroid problems as a result? So how risky is A/A use and does it need to be carefully monitored by a doc?

Thanks in advance for any info and good to see ya again
Oh wow, well thank you =) Regarding Androgen Antagonsits, they fall in many catagories. Some are best used for certain genders, but some of these should probably be used for all genders. The most popular ones used orally for the treatment of acne are Accutane (see previous posts), Spironolactone (androgen receptor blocker), Estrogen/BC (increases SHBG to bind free androgens) & it's questionable when it comes to the prescription specific 5-alpha reductase inhibitors such as Avodart & Proscar.

There's herbals that can act as 5-alpha reductase inhibitors as well as Saw Palmetto is one of these. If you are concerned about it messing with your thyroid, then you can take the active component, Beta Sitosterol instead. I actually have a list of natural androgen antagonists and I look for that and post it for you later.

In the mean time, as for prescription androgen antagonists, there's also the indirect ones such as Glucocorticoids & Insulin Sensitizers. Normally glucorticoids (dexamethasone & prednisone) could induce acne, but if you have an adrenal imbalance they will do the opposite & they are also anti-inflammatory too. The Insulin Sensitizers help to either limit the amount of insulin you produce (Metaformin) or enable your body to better utilize insulin (Avandia). Either way, they both work to lower you androgens, free androgens and boost your SHBG levels, thus help reduce/eliminate acne. The same goes for thyroxine hormone for those that are hypothyroid. Hypothyroids also have a reduced level of SHBG due to lacking thyroid hormone. Boost your thyroid hormone & your SHBG will also increase and thus your acne should also be eliminated.

Depending on the severity, the susceptibility to one's environment (diet, toxins), and perhaps sensitivity, will determine how effective prescription & supplement androgen antagonists are for you. As you may have noted on the board, some of these drugs alone are enough to get people 100% and other times, such as for myself, they were not. I'm more influenced by my diet (which is also an indirect androgen antagonist) and as such I found that I got better results by changing my diet, even when I dropped the avandia (BC, & spiro). I actually have a studyposted around here (bread & acne thread?) that shows that dietary changes with metaformin was no different than dietary changes alone! I'm 24 and have had acne since I was at least 10, yet something that "simple" worked for me. Indeed, the success of any treatment really depends on one's genes & environmental influences.

Last edited by SweetJade1; 12-27-2004 at 10:06 PM.

 
Old 12-27-2004, 10:37 PM   #13
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

OK, so here's the rest of the hormonal tests you should get. I'm also including the lipid panel because this is also an indicator. Steriod hormones (progesterone, androgen, estrogen, cortisol) are made from cholesterol. Furthermore, inflammatory products such as pro-inflammatory prostaglandins (PGE2) are made from the wrong fatty acids. There was actually a study that showed that the genetic connection among twins with acne, was that they had low levels of adiponectin 1A, which is responsible for forming HDL cholesterol (good stuff), thus they probably had high-normal or high levels of LDL cholesterol, which is associated with the production of inflammatory products!

Androgens:
Total Testosterone
Female Ref. Range of [6 – 86] NG/DL

Free Testosterone
Male Ref. Range is [4 – 26] NG/DL (SmithKline Beecham)
Female Ref. Range [0 – 1.4] NG/DL

DHEA (unconjugated)
Male Ref. Range [180 – 1250] NG/DL (Quest Diagnostics)
Female Ref. Range [130 – 980] NG/DL

Androstenedione
Male & Female Ref. Range of [65 - 270] NG/DL (Quest Diagnostics)

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT)

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - SHBG & Free Testosterone/Androgen are inveresly connected and thus are indicators of the other so you neccessarily don't need to get both.


Lipid Profile:
Cholesterol: [120 – 230] mg/dl

Triglyceride: [30 – 140] mg/dl

LDL: [100 – 160] mg/dl

HDL: [40 – 100] mg/dl

HDL/Chol Ratio: [0 – 3.7]

Choles. Individual: [0 – 62]

(Every lab has different reference ranges which is why I try to post them as well as the lab)

Oh, I almost forget, when a male hits middle age, he starts to go through something known as Andropause. As such one may find that they actually have lower levels of certain androgens including Free Androgens, and higher levels of estrogen such as pro-inflammatory estrogen (where active estrogen is kinda the bad guy). In a way these males are still producing lots of androgens, as androgens MUST be created before estrogens, but more of them are being converted to estrogens. I don't know if this applies to middle aged males with obvious signs of androgen excess such as acne, androgenic alopecia, & prostate problems, but if you guys get tested I'm sure you can let us know. However, what is interesting is that the same insulin sensitizing medications, the same anti-androgenic/anti-inflammatory diets, etc will still BOOST a males SHBG levels (as these can still be low), balancing out his estrogen & androgen levels and thus can improve his health/hormonal balance.

Last edited by SweetJade1; 12-28-2004 at 06:24 AM.

 
Old 12-28-2004, 08:04 AM   #14
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Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetJade1
Hey newbie =) First all, you do NOT have to have androgenic alopecia to have a hormonal disorder, particularly one relating to hyperandrogenism. Androgens aren't just responsible for androgenic alopecia, hirsutism & acne, but also ezcema & psoriasis (& rosacea), rheumatoid arthritis, certain cancers, and even obesity. So when you think that someone is getting away with eating too much sugars, for example, because they don't have acne, they may not be getting away with anything. There's always more than one reaction to a particular...aggrevator or hormonal disorder.

2nd of all, if you know that your problem is simple sugars, why do you eat them? ;-) If you know that it IS sugar, then why not take an Insulin Sensitizing drug (Avandia or Metaformin) instead of actually thinking that another course of accutane is going to help you. Have you ever had your blood sugar & insulin levels checked? Does anyone in your family have high cholesterol, weight problems, or Type II Diabetes or Insulin Resistance???

This is my problem, Insulin Resistance Syndrome, also now known as Metabolic Syndrome induced Hyperandrogenism. Avandia wasn't enough for me, as I found my dietary changes to be far superior, but everyone is different and it may be the answer that you need. =)

Hi SweetJade,
I actually have eliminated most carbohydrates (especially simple carbos) for many years now and still have oily/acne prone skin. After asking my mother this morning about any genetic abnormailities in the family I found out that two of my Aunts have Hypoglycemia (and that they have thrived under the Atkins diet). That is a good idea to have my insulin levels checked as a first step. Thanks for your response!
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Old 12-28-2004, 06:16 PM   #15
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SweetJade1 HB User
Re: Endocrinologist prescibed Avodart and Accutane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon68
Hi SweetJade,
I actually have eliminated most carbohydrates (especially simple carbos) for many years now and still have oily/acne prone skin. After asking my mother this morning about any genetic abnormailities in the family I found out that two of my Aunts have Hypoglycemia (and that they have thrived under the Atkins diet). That is a good idea to have my insulin levels checked as a first step. Thanks for your response!

Ahh, so it does run in the family. In that case definately get your blood levels checked and ask about Avandia. Also, in case you are wondering, I don't follow a Low Carb or No-simple carb diet. I had to eliminate Gluten as it was a BIG contributer to blood sugar problems. Actually Wheat and Millet (which is gluten-free) will increase your Insulin Resistance (can cause Hypoglycemia) more so than Rice or Corn will! That's basically the grains that I eat daily now (if I eat any grains). Other acne sufferers around here found that they had to eliminate either wheat, gluten or ALL grains to get improved/clear skin. If you've already done this and also dabbled with the possibilitiy of other foods affecting you (nuts & certain fruits related to nuts do for me), then hopefully the Insulin Sensitizing drugs will do the trick!

Best of luck =)

 
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