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Old 06-21-2005, 03:50 AM   #1
kkpb7825
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ACNE: The New Theory

Ill Keep this brief.

This is in response to two threads recently posted. One on the role of Histamine in acne and the other on the fact that alot of acne sufferers are thin. Why are we thin?

One theory is that acne sufferers are hyperthyroid, this cannot be because seldom there are other symptoms. There is another possibility.

There is a proportion of the population that have what is known as a 'histadelic metabolism'. This is recognised biochemically but not yet medically. Histadelics have super-fact metabolism, at a CELLULAR level (rather than a glandular one). Super-fast metabolisms burn food much faster and less cleanly and so produce much more toxins than the cellular (and liver) anti-oxidant systems can cope with.

I have alot more to say on this, evidence for it, (including how ayevedic and chinese medical systems back my theory up) and ways that this theory can help clear up your skin (as it is mine). But i wanted to keep this brief for now so that more of you will read it.

If anyone wants to know more, then post. Or if anyone has anything to add, i would be greatful, as the theory is always progressing.

Thank you



update on wed 13th july....
RECENT UPDATE FOR ALL THOSE NOT (YET) INVOLVED IN THIS THREADS EVOLVING DISCUSSION..

1. this theory has since developed significantly since i started the thread.. due to some wonderfully insightful observations, by many of you.

2. i strongly suggest that you read, if not all then at least the later discussions..FROM PAGE 3 ONWARDS esp PAGES 5-10

3. important contributions to the evolution of the theory by; scouselad, boulder, portrgirl and antifaith. AND ESPECIALLY: Erica1213, Smite, arock and Sweetjade.

Thank you all....keep posting i think we're all on to something here..if the drug companies won't do the research then we're the only ones that will..

Last edited by kkpb7825; 07-19-2005 at 07:52 AM.

 
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:17 AM   #2
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

I'm always game for a new theory!

 
Old 06-21-2005, 07:21 AM   #3
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

I don't know about alot of acne sufferers being thin. I have seen alot who are heavy and having hypothyroidism can also cause acne if it is not taken care of. I am an average weight but I have always had hypothyroidism but I take care of it by exercising and taking my pill everyday.

 
Old 06-21-2005, 07:29 AM   #4
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toocool HB User
Re: ACNE: The New Theory

yea man, this stuff sounds interesting. please post more.

 
Old 06-21-2005, 07:44 AM   #5
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

Is there really a correllation between weight & acne? Where did you get this info? I'm moderately overweight and have had acne for 25 years! Being overactive is NOT my problem!

 
Old 06-21-2005, 09:04 AM   #6
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

Hey Babygirl, just wondering how and when you were diagnosed with hypothyrodism? What were your symptoms? Does taking meds for that help with the acne?
Thanks!

 
Old 06-21-2005, 10:16 AM   #7
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

Hi,
This sound's a really interesting subject, i started having problems with my skin when i was around 21, I suffered with rashes, itchyness and minor acne, and nearly ten years later i still suffer, but i am much more under control now.
When my skin problems first began i also started to suffer wit another occassional problem, if i didn't eat enough food or i skipped breakfast and lunch for instance i would start to feel a trembling sensation within my body and an urge to eat, this could last anything upto an hour and after having a snack and a lie down i would be fine, I still suffer with this problem now but very rarely and i have ofter wondered whether this could be caused by an unusual metabolism as otherwise i am perfectley healthy.

 
Old 06-21-2005, 10:23 AM   #8
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

hey kk, that is an interesting theory. i'd be interested to know how one could be tested for having cellular-ly fast cells. would that equate to a shorter life span? how are you treating your acne in this regard?

 
Old 06-21-2005, 11:54 AM   #9
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

Erica1213, I was diagnosed w/ hypothyroidism in 4th grade! I am now 21. So I have been taking one small pill a day every morning since then. The symptoms are hair loss or very brittle dry hair, weight gain, a goiter (spelling) which is a hard lump in the front of your neck right where a man's adams apple would be also a sensitivity to cold and feeling very lethargic. Any imbalance in your body can cause acne. If I change my dose of my pill sometimes my acne will get worse. But right now I am at a good level and I'm in good shape so my acne is getting alot better.

 
Old 06-21-2005, 01:04 PM   #10
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

Ok, good. Someone else out there is familiar with histamine sensativity and the role it may play in acne. While researching histamine sensativity I can across a list of risk factors and being thin, as I am, was one of them.

I'll post the list of risk factors when I get a chance. I can't quite remember where I found it and don't have time to look for it right now. Of course, histamine (and flushing) may be a trigger for some but not others.

 
Old 06-21-2005, 02:42 PM   #11
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

I would like to hear more about this topic also! I've always been super thin. When I exercise regularily, I get really thin. I just don't have a lot of fat on me in general (not saying I don't get flabby though!! )

Scouse: I'm exactly the same way! I'll feel physically sick if I don't eat every couple hours and it'll take a while to go away after I do eat and rest. Also, I'm really sensitive to coffee (same side effects as not eating) and have an oral allergy to tree nuts and many fruits (makes me feel sick, itchy, rashy if touches skin, etc). Evidently, my body thinks everything is bad.

 
Old 06-22-2005, 05:46 AM   #12
kkpb7825
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

I first heard about the 'histadelic metabolism' when studying biochemistry, it is considered to be a perfectly normal and harmless genetic variation. It is a genetic variation that has not been removed by evolution because it had some advantages to our ancestors. ONE OF THE MAIN SYMPTOMS is the trembling sensation and weakness that 'scouse' and 'portrgirl' mentioned. This is believed to be due to the rapid catabolism of the food, (fat, carbohydrate etc) to cause blood sugar irregularities. These irregularities cause the symptoms described.

You see this rapid catabolism ensures that we don't become obese, we can eat more and we are spured on to find more food every couple of hours. Unfortunately in the modern world, many foods are processed etc so they are rediculously easy to break down, and so we continously produce vast amounts of toxic metabolic by-products.

The problem is, that all food to some degree, produces considerable amounts of toxins (free radicals) during their breakdown, the faster the breakdown the more food is metabolised and the more toxins are produced.

As some of you have pointed out, not all acne is caused by this, clearly but if there is no other explanation, and if;

1. You are thin, no matter how much you eat.
2. If you don't eat well for a couple of days (say due to illness) you loose weight

3. If you suffer from mild allergies (not severe ones because allergic reactions are due to a sudden burst of histamine due to an irregular immune responce to something and not a continuously raised histamine level)

4. If bright lights make you sneeze

5. If you suffer from occasional bouts of depression and irregular mood, and energy levels

6. If food is always a consideration, because you cant go without food food too long or else suffer severe hunger pains.

then You may be histadelic

You see it all started to fit together recently when i was discussing the difference between chinese (TCM) and western medicine with a very wise chinese medical doctor. I told him about my history, and he explained that acne is so hard to 'cure' because many sufferers have very fast metabolisms and so just eating itself in effect causes the condition.

I then realised that this answered 2 things that had always puzzeled me.
1. Fasting helps acne
2. Giving insulin helps acne

These two don't fit together! because during fasting, insulin levels fall to almost nothing, so it cannot be the insulin itself that is helping acne it must be something it is doing!

NOW it makes sence. When fasting there is no food to 'give off' toxins and in the second case, giving Insulin causes a switch in metabolism from catabolism (burning food) to anabolism (storing food), a histadelic metabolism is a catabolic one.

This then is the ultimate cause of acne (aside from genetics), all the other theories are manifestations of this underlying theory.

For example:
1. The toxic overload cause of acne..treatment by detox never really helped me

2. the 'insulin-resistance' theory...explained because high catabolism, leads to high sugar levels and chronically raised insulin that the body cells (especially skin cells) acclimatize to, hence the phrase 'acne is skin diabetes'.


I dont want to go on in this reply, or it will be too long, but i have more to say, especially about possible treatments, that go to the root. What TCM and ayeveda have to say about this theory and other aspects of the biochemistry. If you want me to write more then i will be happy to. Also i encourage you to contribute to this, it has taken years of research, but it is still evolving, i barely know the full implications. I hope to hear from you soon.

Thank you

 
Old 06-22-2005, 06:04 AM   #13
kkpb7825
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

arock:hey kk, that is an interesting theory. i'd be interested to know how one could be tested for having cellular-ly fast cells. would that equate to a shorter life span? how are you treating your acne in this regard?


I am not sure if there is a way of testing for this, because it isn't due to very high histamine levels, actually some scientists argue that histadelics don't even have high histamine levels at all. But their cellular receptors (that govern their metabolic rate) are extra senstive (or respond differently) to normal levels of histamine. And i am not sure about the life-span, but i know what you are getting at, it is a very interesting question!

Because calorie restriction, in rats leads to longer life span, due to less toxic by-products of food metabolism, so that is a possibility. Also it is believed that histadelics use up their antioxidants faster, and don't obtain as much nutrients from food. But conversely, (and this is speculation) suely if histadelics burn their fat etc, then there is less to clog up arteries (atherosclerosis) and so less stroke and heart disease?

These are questions i would love the answers to, i hope that in the future some studies willl be done as the significance of this genetic variation becomes clearer.

thanks for your insightful questions. they raised an aspect of the subject i had never considered.

 
Old 06-22-2005, 06:53 AM   #14
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erica1213 HB User
Re: ACNE: The New Theory

I'm curious to hear proposed solutions, but the first thing that jumps to mind for me is would taking a simple anti-histamine help? Say benadryl?

 
Old 06-22-2005, 07:06 AM   #15
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Re: ACNE: The New Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpb7825

I am not sure if there is a way of testing for this, because it isn't due to very high histamine levels, actually some scientists argue that histadelics don't even have high histamine levels at all. But their cellular receptors (that govern their metabolic rate) are extra senstive (or respond differently) to normal levels of histamine.
I'll simplify it quite a bit. Yes, if you're histadelic you'll be extra sensative to histamine. Acne is a result of to much sebum, clogged pores and bacteria leading to an infection.

See my post on histamine. If my theory is correct, those who are sensative to histamine experience flushing after consuming foods high in histamine. Flushing means dilated blood vesels, which means increased sebum production....and acne as the result.

Soultion:

1) low histamine diet
2) anti-histamines (~20 mg loratadine per day). Loratadine is Claritin.
3) Vitamin B6 -- Helps the ezyme (diamine oxidase) that processes histamine and reduces flush. Be careful with B6 though, as it can affect nervous system.

and in reality the ultimate cause is glands that are too large and need to be reduced in size. So if the above 3 don't work 100%...

4) isotretinoin (accutane)

 
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