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Old 05-23-2009, 04:00 AM   #1
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ADHD and eating disorders

I have had a life time of addiction problems. Late evening ice cream binging is my current addiction. Let's define "addiction" as an uncontrollable craving for something self-destructive.

Nearly every evening I've been downing a massive sized bowl of "Extreme Chocolate Moose Tracks", with nuts, strawberries, blueberries or whatever sweet berry available and topped with a mound of heavy whipped cream. Everyday I make the same resolution: Tonight I'll have something with a few thousand less calories such as celery with a little peanut butter. The one night I kept resolution it was with a lot of peanut butter stuffed in and above the trough - multiple troughs come to think of it.

In case the above sounds harmless to you, it's not. I am gaining weight and I haven't been able to get a handle on it.

To quote Thunor: "I can tell you first hand that eating disorders can, and do, go hand in hand with ADHD, as I continue to struggle daily with my own. Many times, I've described my issue as "I don't eat because I'm hungry, I eat because I want to eat." In my case, my body doesn't necessarily need the food I'm eating, but I eat because the act of eating triggers the release of the neurotransmitters I need. This is why I can be good all day but lose my control late in the evening; my meds have worn off and my brain is craving what it's missing." That's me.

BTW Thunor, you remain the master communicator.

To the point/question: Has anyone found a solution?

Bob

PS I've tried not having the stuff in the house. The problem we have here in Pennsylvania is stores that gladly sell me more - lots more.

 
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:55 AM   #2
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Son-a-gun. I know partially what the problem is. I begain Celexa 3, 4 months ago for resurging depression brought on by a few major life changes and catastrophes. Weight gain is a notorious SSRI side-effect. The medication does not cause weight gain, it causes a craving for sweets. The ice cream "binging" came shortly after I started taking Celexa. I didn't see it until after reading several recent posts about eating disorders and then writing this thread.

I don't know if I can quit the Celexa yet. I haven't fully settled into my new schema.

Wellbutrin? It has given me a nervous skittish feeling, a sub-anxiety type reaction is the best I can describe it. Wellbutrin does work well as an antidepressant for me. If it ain't one thing it's another with a buggy brain - let's face it.

The Adderall counteracts the Celexa's side-effect during the day. In the evening, as you all know, the Adderall has quit for the day. I'm left with the craving for sweets. I go for my favorite type sweets naturally.

Additional info, same question: Anyone know of a possible solution?

Bob

 
Old 05-23-2009, 11:04 PM   #3
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Bob, you have to have your ice cream, there's just no getting around it. The meds have worn off, you're craving something sweet, p'nut butter and celery just won't cut it! It will haunt you until you give in..... okay, maybe I've just fought and lost that battle one too many times....

But there are ways to do it healthier than what you are doing! FIRST, you do have to stop blaming the medicine.... or lack of medicine, I guess.... Just because the meds have worn off, it doesn't mean you suddenly lose all sense of self control! If we keep telling ourselves that it's not our fault, or we can't help it, or we just can't stop ourselves from being self destructive because the meds have worn off, then it becomes way too easy to make really stupid choices.... like loading up that ice cream bowl! You do have to take control and make the choice to be healthier with your late night snacking! You CAN do it, you just have to want it!

Like try switching from Moosetracks (just go to the freezer, grab the Moosetracks, and chuck it into the trashcan.... do it NOW!!!), to something light. Not the gross light, but go for Edy's/Dreyer's slow churned 1/2 the fat kind.... they have a gazillion flavors and they're really good! BUT don't let the 1/2 fat label talk you into eating more.... cut down to one or one and a half servings.... if you don't have a kitchen scale, I highly recommend getting one.... they really help with keeping servings in check!

My personal favorite light ice cream is Bluebell light Homemade Vanilla.... but you can't always get it because it's only sold in certain states.... Outback Steakhouse sells it by the tub, I think.... but then you'd have to fight off that steak temptation.... mmmmm.... now I'm hungry.....

Anyway, if you need toppings, stick with fresh fruit (like the berries you mentioned), chopped nuts, cereal..... yes, cereal.... Kashi Go Lean Crunch with vanilla ice cream and a sprinkle of cinnamon is really good.... Grape Nuts are good too. If you need something chocolatey, go for dark chocolate covered raisins, or dark chocolate covered cranberries.... but keep your serving sizes in check!!!

AND.... if you're going to indulge with a late night ice cream snack, then you might try cutting back on some of your calories during the day, and add in a bit of extra exercise....

AND if you can do it, instead of ice cream, try having a bowl of cottage cheese and applesauce (1/2 a serving of each) with a sprinkle of cinnamon/sugar (mix it ahead of time with more cinnamon than sugar....) and chopped pecans, almonds, or walnuts. I personally loathe cottage cheese, but my husband made this for me one night, and I just ate it to be nice, but I found that I really liked it! I crave that almost as much as I crave ice cream now! My husband mixes raisins, craisins and flax seed into his, and he loves it. I like it plain....

If you really want to resist the ice cream, you could try brushing your teeth more, or chewing minty gum.... that works for awhile....

ANYWAY..... I don't think you should deny yourself your ice cream. I just think you ought to do it a bit healthier. And you'll find that once you take away it's "forbidden" status, and make it okay to do, you won't want to do it as much. I don't know what it is, but that whole "forbidden fruit" thing just makes it so much more exciting and irresistible! Once it becomes acceptable.... well, it just doesn't taste as good!

Last edited by marisuela; 05-23-2009 at 11:07 PM.

 
Old 05-24-2009, 04:08 AM   #4
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

marisuela,

Powerful. So good I copied to Word, used Times New Roman -12 pt so I can read it without glasses on, and am sticking every word on the fridge - freezer section - so I can't get past the door without seeing it. Oh, large 16 pt header "New Rules." It fit on one sheet with margins set at 0.5 all around.

I have one measly fix left. It's only about a small pint at the bottom of the bucket. I just can't toss it. Tonight will be my last binge. Tomorrow - MONDAY morning - "New Rules" apply.

Besides either wife or myself have to see the dealer for new supplies. The Kashi Go Lean Crunch, a staple in our house, is currently out-of-stock, now back ordered. My wife owns some Vanila yogart and ice cream but has note on it - "touch and you die."

You saved me $90 smackers. I was going to address issue at next psyche visit - Jun 4. Now I can blow my ninety on one of the many other creeping, crawling things, creeping, crawling around in my brain.

I swear it - I'm on the moose track wagon tomorrow AM. Hmn, sounds bad. On the ice cream wagon with the moose tracks?

I just can't toss my last fix. Please hear my weeping and sobbing.

Thank you so much,

Bob

 
Old 05-24-2009, 04:51 AM   #5
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

marseula,

I tossed it. The symbolism has helped me with past addictions - tobacco and alcohol - crushed the last half pack of smokes, throw out the remaining bottles of beer. Meth called for rehab but I swear the sign-in act had more to do with done-with-it-forever than the therapy itself. Incidently, by arrangement with my pdoc, my wife has control of the Adderall vial with license to rat on me if I should try anything sneaky. Works.

Buggy brain drives me nuts. Drives other people nuts too. The ones that got to deal with me.

Bob

 
Old 05-24-2009, 05:58 AM   #6
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Bob,

I can't coordinate my thoughts and present them as clearly as our "master communicator" Thunor (welcome back, Thunor! ), so I'll just list my thoughts as they spill from my ADD brain.

First, marisuela has some wonderful suggestions. I'm going to add to her yummy suggestions for indulging while attempting to keep the calories somewhat in check by saying: fill up on a huge salad first! Now, while you're shaking off your shivers and trying to think of something nice and printable to call me, I'll explain: one of the purposes of binging is to fill up the void (in the tummy, in the soul). I find that if I eat a large pile of veggies first, then I am stuffed a lot faster when I turn to the much better tasting part of the meal or snack. Yeah, I know that ice cream tastes muuuuuch yummier than any brocolli or lettuce could dream of tasting. But veggies are filling. I can eat a huge portion of ice cream before my tummy says enough. If there's already salad and/or other fibrously filling stuff in there, my tummy says "stop" much earlier in the session.

Binging, as with other addictions, serves a number of purposes. One of the purposes is to divert us from whatever it is that we really really really don't want to face. Usually uncomfortable feelings or thoughts. It uses up time by allowing us to focus on something pleasant rather than something unpleasant. It makes us feel good, which is handy when we are otherwise feeling bad. Then it's a diversion after the binge because we can dwell on how "bad" we've been instead of facing something even less pleasant.

It might be the Celexa. It might be a diversion. You write in this thread about how it's a big problem for you, then shortly afterwards you say that it's solved and you don't need to bring it up with your shrink. Hmmm. You've mentioned before that your upbringing doesn't allow you to feel comfortable saying "I feel weak, I'm afraid I might fail". Sweety, you will never fail in our eyes. Would you consider telling your shrink that you've been using ice cream as a crutch, and could he suggest a less-caloric crutch until your brain mends a bit? Crutches are ok. They support us until we can grow stronger and find other ways of dealing with this insane world we live in.

{{{hugs}}}

--Rheanna

 
Old 05-24-2009, 09:44 AM   #7
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Rheanna,

Thank you so much. You always touch my soul. I agree to tell my shrink.

As far as the admitting to failure at a gut level, I'll never conquer it. It's not software, or even firmware, it's hardwired right into my very being.

It is not ADHD that drives me so ruthlessly. It's that whatever that is called that you so "masterfully" and compassionately describe . Let's call it: "Failure is not an Option Disorder." FOD is always behind my binges of depression. I said it before and I'll say it again. The primary responsibility of parenting is to screw your kids heads up.

Now, let's think happy thoughts.

Thank you.

Bob

 
Old 05-24-2009, 11:41 AM   #8
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

This FOD thing controls virtually everything I do including how I view things. Most who post on this board are very good communicators - that certainly includes you, marsuela, Index, Jane and others. Thunor "bothers" me because he writes better than or at least as well as most authors I read. He writes at a professional level. Show me a block of code and I can immediately tell you whether the author was paid for the work. Similarly, Thunor easily qualifies to write for magazines and book publishers. He could excel at taking some of the trashly written meaningful stuff I have to read and rewrite it so I can read it. Why isn't he? It's this [bad word] virus that infected our brains before we hatched.

Rehenna, you shoot arrows right at me with deadly accuracy. You knew the FOD was getting me again. Sorry, no money in it for you. You do have perfect job security at least until I croak, cuz then the FOD croaks too. Not before. Look at the bright side.

FOD a poor excuse for an acronym? Better than TOVA. Test Of Variables of Attention. You cannot use Of in an acronym. Totally against the rules. Nevertheless, I hereby upgrade FOD to FNOD pronounced F-Nod. Not makes 180 degrees of difference.

Done playing.

Bob

Last edited by addprogrammer; 05-24-2009 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Almost forgot Jane

 
Old 05-25-2009, 05:57 AM   #9
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Ok

First night success story.

We went to a neighbors for a cookout. I got the bright idea of playing catch with a hardball. All went well until I had to bend over to field a low throw and, and, and, the mouse track induced gizzard got in the way.

I had nada for late-night attack.

Tonight I'm going with "Marsuela Rules." Once I begin having trouble constraining portions - and I will - we'll plug-in Rheanna lettuce rule.

Rheanna, you do know that lettuce is NOT food. It's what food eats.

The best I'll ever be able to do with FNOD management is accept the "less insane" is reality so accept it. FNOD has some advantages. It does propel me forward. Disadvantages are it blinds me to my own reality, then blinds me to my own progress.

Thank you all.

For now.

Don't worry. Be happy. Next bug will surface soon. And all previous bugs will be back soon.

So stay tuned for my next episode.

Got to love it.

Bob

Last edited by addprogrammer; 05-25-2009 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Hit something that posted before done ranting

 
Old 05-25-2009, 01:12 PM   #10
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Keep at it Bob, we're all pulling for you. I can relate to where you're at, because I'm there every day to the point that my health is now at rather severe risk. I'm glad to see some of the strategies presented here, hopefully I can make some of them apply in my own life.

 
Old 05-26-2009, 12:37 PM   #11
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

BOB! Good job throwing out the Moose Tracks!!! And passing it up in the grocery store too??? That's huge!!! A lesser man would not have been able to do it! Good for you!

As far as failure goes.... well, I was raised with the failure is not an option rule too. But the perspective is different in my household..... and here's where I get made fun of a lot because I have such a "Pollyanna" perspective on life.... as long as you keep trying, even if you mess up a thousand times, as long as you don't quit, I don't think you've actually failed, because eventually, you're going to figure it out!

It's like watching a baby learning to walk. How many times do they fall down before they make those first wobbly steps? And then how many times to they fall down after that, before those wobbly steps become stronger? And even then, they are going to keep falling down..... but they keep getting back up and trying again, and eventually they figure it out.

But after they've been walking for awhile, they start to get braver and want to try new things.... like climbing up on top of the chair in baby's room to try to grab the toy hanging from the crib.... and then baby lands on baby's face, cracking baby's head against the corner of the crib, scaring the mommy half to death and ending up with a nice huge knot on baby's head! Is baby a failure??? Nope! Will baby try it again? Yes!!! Baby got right back up on that bleeping chair and figured out how to get up on top of the back of the bleeping chair and baby got the bleeping toy as mommy watched with fascinated horror at how devious and evil baby actually is!!!

AND.... as baby grows into a child, the child will continue to do things that will cause her to fall down. But she keeps doing them until she gets it right (or until her mother threatens her with her life if she ever does something like that again!). And the child grows into a teenager, and then a young adult, and then a..... well, you get the picture. I mean heck, just last year, I was walking out to the car after church, and I don't know what I did, but I guess I tripped and I fell and scraped my knee (ruined my favorite heels too!). So am I a failure at walking??? No, because I'm not done yet!

Point is, Bob, as long as you never quit trying, you can NEVER fail because you aren't done yet, either! I think Dory sums it up nicely when she sings, "Just keep swimming, keep on swimming, just keep swimming, swimming, swimming...."

(if you've never watched Finding Nemo, go watch it.... it's a great movie!)

 
Old 05-26-2009, 01:19 PM   #12
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Marisuela,

You just got the highest rating possible. Wife read the thing I stuck on the fridge and LOVES IT. She is setting me up each day. Tonight it's the cottage cheese slop.

Another triumphant. I don't have to make treat decision at all much less under duress. Actually I tested the slop and it ain't haft bad. I think the cinnamin and apple sauce just make it look like puke.

Thanks for your kind words. I sure as heck hope Hunter tries your plan first too.

Bob

 
Old 05-26-2009, 08:07 PM   #13
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

"Cottage cheese slop".... I love it! That's such a great name for the stuff! I just went to make me some, and found that I am out of cottage cheese! Such a bummer..... so I had an almond snickers instead (what.... almonds are healthy!).

Another thing that might help with treat decisions.... take some time at the beginning of each week, and plan out your treats for the week. Get a dry erase board, or laminate a page or something that you can reuse each week, and plan it out. Hang it on the fridge. Takes all the stress out of each night when you're faced with wanting something.... it makes a world of difference for me when I'm faced with planning dinner for my family each day (otherwise, we might resort to one of the several fast food chains all within three seconds of my house!), and I'm going to implement it for myself with late night snacking as well!

Another really good snack that won't kill you is popcorn with dark chocolate raisins (dark chocolate anything!).... just make sure the popcorn you get won't kill you! I actually got an air popper and eat my popcorn with nothing on it except dark chocolate raisins and a little salt.

Anyway.... keep up the great work! If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything (and the great thing about having ADD, is that on the way to accomplishing it, you've managed to do a lot of several other things as well!).

 
Old 05-27-2009, 03:51 AM   #14
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Thumbs up Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Quote:
Originally Posted by marisuela View Post
BOB! Good job throwing out the Moose Tracks!!! And passing it up in the grocery store too??? That's huge!!! A lesser man would not have been able to do it! Good for you!

...

Point is, Bob, as long as you never quit trying, you can NEVER fail because you aren't done yet, either! I think Dory sums it up nicely when she sings, "Just keep swimming, keep on swimming, just keep swimming, swimming, swimming...."

(if you've never watched Finding Nemo, go watch it.... it's a great movie!)
Right on there marisuela! those are very true words there, ive noticed myself that on our life's journeys you have to be constantly, stubbornly, persistent about managing our individual challenges were confronted with every single day were here.
And again your right there when you say that your never a failure while your constantly trying to succeed. EVER

Last edited by mod-anon; 05-27-2009 at 04:08 AM. Reason: editing quote

 
Old 05-27-2009, 04:30 PM   #15
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Re: ADHD and eating disorders

Quote:
Originally Posted by marisuela View Post

Another thing that might help with treat decisions.... take some time at the beginning of each week, and plan out your treats for the week. Get a dry erase board, or laminate a page or something that you can reuse each week, and plan it out.
This thread has become better than any hypothetical example of CBT that I can do.

Cognitive: Helping me with the faulty thinking triggering the binges.

Behavioral: Replacing destructive behavior with acceptable behavior.

In both cases the plan must accomodate my reality. Example: I am not going to stop striving for perfection - an unrealistic impossible, heck, undefinable object. As long as I don't quit trying, I haven't failed. I can live with that.

I want my ice cream, period. Ok, let's keep a lid on the size and type and have your dog-gone ice cream. Oh, yeah, can live with that too.

Planning has worked wonders for me in a number of areas. Currently wife has eliminated treat planning. The girl has been known to quit jobs so I'll cache treat planning for when she quits. Trust me. She will. It'll come with the annoucement: "You're all grown up now. Take care of yourself" Mean, she is, mean I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marisuela View Post
Another really good snack that won't kill you is popcorn with dark chocolate raisins (dark chocolate anything!).... just make sure the popcorn you get won't kill you! I actually got an air popper and eat my popcorn with nothing on it except dark chocolate raisins and a little salt.
So cool. Popcorn with deer droppings. Afterall, a moose is nothing more than a big huge deer. The pharmaceutal that makes Moose Tracks is too chicken to call it what it is. Moose Droppings. That is how one tracks a moose. By its droopings which are big and huge. Deer droppings are much smaller but also much more numerous.

Life is good.

Bob

 
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