Laurien - ADD / ADHD Message Board

Roman S · 12-10-2000, 07:40 PM

In the fall 1997 semester I used to run in Cross Country team of
Berkeley High School. I was the top
boy runner in the school, while Laurien was the top girl runner. The
team was pretty bad, so even
though we were both the top runners neither of us was exeptional on
large range. I ran above
average, but not much; Laurien was below average.
Anyway, Laurien has a learning disability sinse she was 6. She claimes
it is because she was born
legally blind. Her vision problems were recognised when she was 6.
Because of this, her brain
was affected. Because of that brain defect, she can't see well even
when she wears glasses; she
also can't learn well. This year she developed depression and had been
diagnosed with the Major
Depressive Disorder. She said it is due to hypotheroidism. I don't
understand it- in DSM 4 they
said specifically that the diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder is not
given if the disturbance is
due to hypotheroidism. Please tell me in comments how could doctor
give her such a diagnosis.
Despite her depression, she looks pretty happy when she communicates
to people. She often has
little smile on her fase and says words fast; it happends regardless of
the content of conversation.
For example, she might talk about her learning problems with such
little smile. In some cases she
appears to be sert of proud of herself and of me as top runners, but I
don't see there anything to
be proud of sinse we are not that good on large scale. In some cases
she is very impulsive to say
something. For example, ones I was asking history question to one
person on the team who came
from history class. She ran into me, interrupted my question and blured
out an answer. She
looked real exited for me to stop. She used to claim that her medicine
made her look happy on
her outside, while she is still sad on her inside. However, any time I
see her by herself, she allmost
cries, even though she has no tears, her face expression is similar to
the one when one cries. Her
crying expression in a way look similar to her smiling expressioon, and
when I observed her
changing settings, like moving from personal setting to lonely setting,
her smile grew naturally into
that crying expression. Her smile is small, it shows little happinness,
but still has a shadow of
crying.
Then she tried ones to stub herself. After that she went to the
psychiatrist who changed her
diagnosis to manic depression. Now she said she was hyper not
because of her medications, but
because of manic depression. The doctor changed her medication that
would make her less
depressed as well as less hyper. I know manic depression is the same
thing as bipolar. A person shifts from manic episod to depressive
episode. Even though some manic depressives cycle really fast, they
still meet full criteria for manic episode at one point and for depression
at the other. Its only that there is 5 minute interval between those
points. But Laurien doesn't seem to develop any of those two episodes
at any point what-so-ever. After all, manic episode requires happiness
both on the inside and outside. So since Laurien is ALWAYS sad on her
inside, she never meets full criteria for manic episode. This is about
elevated mood. Since she
is depressed on her inside, clearly, manic episode is not her diagnosis.
Perhapse manic depression
is labeled differently in DSM 4, please tell me in comments how it is
labeled.
Another think is that ones she said that in some cases she knows the
material, but she can't do an
assiment. I have a suspition that she has ADHD rather than learning
disability. In learning disability
you can't learn. She learned the material, so its not learning disability.
If she can't do assignment it
means that either she can't get it to completion because she can't
concentrate or she makes
careless mistakes. Both of the baove are simptoms of ADHD. Moreover,
her impulsiveness also
suggest ADHD. She also has changing mood. For example, when I
teased her, she said that she is
not gonna talk to me any more. Later, in some situations she held that
promise, while in the others
she impulsively engaged into conversation with me. Those all are
simptoms of ADHD. Tell me on
comments why is it actually learning disorder.
I also want to know what can happen to the brain because of her
blindness that she no longer can
see well despite glasses.
Because she was legally blind and had learning disability, she was in
special ed school last year.
She claimes that even if she didn't have learning disability, she would
still go to special ed school
because she is legally blind. Just curious: if legally blind person who
doesn't have learning disability
goes to special ed, intellectually it would be too easy for him. How can
they let him do it? Also, if
someone else is legally blind who doesn't have brain problem, he might
fix it by glasses, why
should he go to special ed school. Another question: Laurien was
dihidrated because of her
antidepressant, so she went home, entered Berkeley High. She is not
on special ed. How can she
handle it?
I am really curious about those things, please answer as much
questions as you can.

Roman S · 12-11-2000, 05:13 PM

So you made up a special user name for this particular reply?!! Hey, that makes me proud of my faulty logic

Anyway, isn't it possible that one has above average IQ but still can not *learn* certain subjects? For instance, may be he has a really high verbal but very low math IQ, but a high verbal makes it add up to above-average-total. So he actually *can't learn* math due to his low performance IQ.

If learning disability doesn't mean one can't learn, then as I wrote in my post, how would it be distinguished from ADHD? In DSM 4 those are two different items.

I buy that your daughter has very high verbal IQ. But the thing is that in that same special ed school where she goes there are other kids who are placed there precisely because they have low verbal abilities. So English classes mush be very easy in that school- otherwise all those low-verbal kids would fail just as they would in a normal school. So doesn't it mean that English classes should be too easy for your daughter as she has such a high verbal IQ?

You write "
Special education is not necessarily a life-long need. Some learn to compensate well enough to
'survive' in the mainstream."
But the thing is that Laurien is not one of them, or at least was not one of them at fall 1997 (I only saw her that term in Cross Country Team). According to what she said, she went into "normal" school precicely because her special ed school was too far away from home and require her to live in a dorm, but due to her dihydration her parents wanted her to stay at home for a while. So I don't see how could she survive normal school . I know that there is special ed class, but she did NOT go there-- I asked her and she NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THAT CLASS!!!

FaultyLogic · 12-12-2000, 02:05 PM

yes, ADD/ADHD and LD are 2 separate disorders. It's possible for a person to have both, and that may well be the case with Laurien.

While ADD can impact a person's learning, it does by interfering with their ability to attend to instructions and focus their attention to complete the task, not by preventing them from understanding the topic. Unless a person with ADD ALSO has a specific learning disability, you would expect their IQ and academic achievement to be within or near the average range, and for IQ and achievement to be close to each other. However, their actual performance in school is often considerably lower than expected, because they have trouble completing (but not understanding!) tasks which are within their capability level.

My daughter does not go to special ed school. She attend normal school, and goes to special ed classroom to have tests from the regular science and geography classes read to her. She can also go for help with assignments, but never has needed to. Students who need more assistance than she does receive it.

In a special education classroom, one's instruction is individualized according to their needs. it's not unusual for a teacher to teach 3-4 different levels to the same age group, depending on each student's capabilities to learn.

I've never yet met a learning disabled child who was totally unable to learn any math. Some are more impaired than others, but all can make *some* progress

Roman S · 12-12-2000, 06:12 PM

I buy that all learning disabled can learn to some extend, even in the area of their disability. But they certainly learn either less math or the same math but in the easier level-- if they have math disability. Now if someone is legally blind, she would be forced to learn math on easier level *just* because she is in special school which has all kinds of disabled, including math disabled. So doesn't it mean its inappropriate for this person to go into special ed school? after all, being legally blind doesn't give her any math difficulties *at all* and she should have learned math on level of other kids.

PureCoal · 12-13-2000, 10:23 PM

Roman S,

I went to high school with a girl that was legally blind. She attended regular classes right along side everyone else. We did have a special education class, but as far as I know, she was never in there. I could possibly see a blind person having to attend a special ed class just because normal classes may not be able to provide books in brail or the teacher is not educated in reading papers in brail. Yes, you are right, they really should be learning the same material as everyone else.