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Old 09-03-2010, 09:27 PM   #1
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Intuniv?

A few more disturbing reports about Vyvanse side-effects were recently posted.

I have been getting headaches every day. Today I had crazy squigglily lines in my peripheal vision of my left eye. - Jesskttn

I'm having a side effect from vyvanse where it's hard to take deep breaths and my chest just feels sort of tight. I also feel SLIGHTLY light headed. - stagnantide

Frankly, both scare the hell out of me. Those amphetamine induced symptoms are associated in my layman's brain with serious cardio-vascular problems.

I read one of two promising reports about Intuniv. Anyone else have good results with Intuniv?

Please note: Drug companies are in business to make money. I have no problem with "for profit" motive. Nor do I have issues with putting one's best marketing foot forward. That being said, "never believe that anyone has the panacea for everyone's ADHD caused stressors." That is BS.

Is Intuniv another tool we can add to our symptom control toolbox?

Bob

 
Old 09-04-2010, 08:26 PM   #2
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Re: Intuniv?

Well, just because you asked, I spent a little time reading about Intuniv, and the results are intriguing, but, I think, limited.

It seems that Intuniv (Guanfacine) is a blood pressure medication (in its instant-release form, marketed under the trade name Tenex), that because it appears to have increased the attentional abilities of some patients, has subsequently been approved for treatment of ADHD in children and adolescents. Its mode of action, as I've come to understand it, is to bind with a particular subset of norepinephrine receptors, and mimic the effect of norepinephrine (it 'agonizes' these receptors, or 'causes a response'). As an 'alpha-2-adrenergic agonist' Intuniv is in the same class as Clonidine. These particular receptors, according to Shire, are implicated in working memory, attention, impulse control and distraction. If true, it sounds like they've found a winner, a drug that zeros in on the specific subtype receptor of the specific neurotransmitter responsible for nearly all the symptoms of ADHD. I'm personally dubious.

In my own layman's mind, it looks like Intuniv acts like Strattera, but rather than (supposedly) increasing the brain's supply of real norepinephrine, it increases the brain's supply of something that acts like norepinephrine. This would seem to be a really good thing for those whose ADHD is related more or less exclusively to norepinephrine, though for those like myself whose brains are always desperately seeking dopamine, it may have little effect.

Interestingly, the side effects for Intuniv are very similar to Strattera; they seem act like depressants. In addition to lowering blood pressure (which is likely desirable in many people), side effects include lethargy, somnolence, fatigue and depression, and, of course, the 'catch all' side effects, dizziness, chest pain, headache, etc. Curiously, the somnolent effects apparently make it ideal for treating those whose ADHD causes them sleep disturbance.

Conclusion: I think it looks interesting, to be sure. It seems to have some science behind it, and appears to have been discovered by accident because it had favorable 'real world' effects regarding ADHD-like symptoms while being prescribed for hypertension. I think it's an important step in symptom control for those that can't tolerate stimulants.

For myself, I'm very concerned with some of the side effects, I still have memories of falling asleep at the wheel, and several other unfortunate times while on Strattera. I see in some of my reading that it's sometimes used in conjunction with stimulants, and I wonder if this is the ideal situation. If it can control sleep disturbance, and help alleviate symptoms in times that stimulants are inappropriate or have lost effect (ie. the evening), it may well be a very positive addition to the ADHD toolkit. I'm going to wait and see how things go for a while before I decide to give it a try.

 
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:33 AM   #3
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Re: Intuniv?

Thu,

I did a little of the same research. You filled in many blanks. My gut-feeling remains unchanged. In fact, reinforced ...

"it looks like Intuniv acts like Strattera, but rather than (supposedly) increasing the brain's supply of real norepinephrine, it increases the brain's supply of something that acts like norepinephrine. This would seem to be a really good thing for those whose ADHD is related more or less exclusively to norepinephrine, though for those like myself whose brains are always desperately seeking dopamine, it may have little effect."

Very cool, very detailed. It looks like, quacks like, waddles like, but not norepi. A typical brain complexity riddle.

Those of us with dopamine deficient ADHD get knocked out. We sure look "cured." Least we are not squirming and causing a raucous.

It leaves the quandary of ADHD and sensitive to amphetamines. No simple fix. Just complex solutions.

Thanks,
Bob

 
Old 09-09-2010, 01:50 PM   #4
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Re: Intuniv?

Hey Bob.. so do you think that Intunic would be safer than Vyvanse for my 6yr old and would it be safe to use with Clonidine?
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:56 PM   #5
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Thumbs up Re: Intuniv?

Same question for Thunor, and for the record,i would like both of your inputs,yall seem to know more than the Dr"s do and its been a great help with understanding ADHD for my sons sake, Thanks guys!
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:30 PM   #6
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Re: Intuniv?

Intuniv and Clonidine are both in the same class of drugs (alpha-2-agonists), and thus work in very similar ways with very similar side effects. Therefore, it is my belief that the two together would likely be bad news. Both of these meds are used for controlling hypertension, in addition to ADHD and some other disorders, and use of both may cause blood pressure issues, especially in someone that is not hypertensive.

I've seen studies where Clonidine has been tested in conjunction with Ritalin for controlling of ADHD, the same as Vyvanse and Intuniv are often used together. Essentially, you're pairing a stimulant with a depressant in hopes the positives stack and the negatives cancel each other out.

So, my long winded explanation aside, my answer is this: I would expect Intuniv might be used to replace the Clonidine, rather than the Vyvanse.

 
Old 09-09-2010, 05:20 PM   #7
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Re: Intuniv?

Quote:
Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post
A few more disturbing reports about Vyvanse side-effects were recently posted.

I have been getting headaches every day. Today I had crazy squigglily lines in my peripheal vision of my left eye. - Jesskttn

I'm having a side effect from vyvanse where it's hard to take deep breaths and my chest just feels sort of tight. I also feel SLIGHTLY light headed. - stagnantide

Frankly, both scare the hell out of me. Those amphetamine induced symptoms are associated in my layman's brain with serious cardio-vascular problems.

I read one of two promising reports about Intuniv. Anyone else have good results with Intuniv?

Please note: Drug companies are in business to make money. I have no problem with "for profit" motive. Nor do I have issues with putting one's best marketing foot forward. That being said, "never believe that anyone has the panacea for everyone's ADHD caused stressors." That is BS.

Is Intuniv another tool we can add to our symptom control toolbox?

Bob
I just recently updated my post talking about the side effects of vyvanse. I went down in dose for a few days and then began slowly taking more. I haven't had the side effect since I started doing this. I think my body just needed to get used to it. I used to have headaches with the vyvanse as well, but those went away in about a week or so. I just wanted to let you know that my bad side effects are completely gone from the vyvanse now.

 
Old 09-09-2010, 08:10 PM   #8
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Re: Intuniv?

Randy,

Amphetamines are generally "safe" apart from their high abuse potential. "Apart from 'that' Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show?" Something tells me, ol' Mrs. Lincoln had less than fond memories of that good show at Ford's Theatre that evening."

The problem is the problem is complex as can be.

Let's look at one of many variables. Thunor responds well to a high dose of Wellbutrin and a "standard" dose of Adderall. I respond better to a standard dose of Dexedrine CR, that's the version that releases d-amphetamine gradually over a 12 to 16 period without any l-amphetamine pumping up norepi which I apparently have in sufficient supply. Kinda looks like Thunor needs more of the "motivation" neuro, "norephinephrine" (related to the neuro "adrenline") and I need more of the "happy" neuro "dopamine." Don't you think? I think I'm grossly ignorant.

That's cuz the relationships between the many, many neuros is what us "geeks" call "stupidifying complex." Thinking about that web of relationships makes more stupid than before thinking about it.

That's why we all need a real shrink who understands complex lossless compression algorithms that can fit megabit bitamps into just a few bytes.

I know poop about "shrinking" brains. You must find a shrink that can really shrink for your son's benefit. How do you do it? I did it by process of natural selection. By firing bozo shrinks I shrunk the genetic pool down to the fittest and my play ended. My dude can shrink. You need the same for your son.

Ok, I'm playing, laughing but also dead serious. All of us must find skilled professional help to beat this beast. Formidable foe, ADHD is.

Bob

 
Old 09-10-2010, 01:19 PM   #9
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Thumbs up Re: Intuniv?

BOB....Lol I got the message my friend! For now i think the Vyvance and Clonidine is what my son will stay on till the Dr. desides to change them but im always open to what works for him without the deep side effects and im sure you know what i mean lol. I will be asking about the Intuniv and see if it would be a better med for my son for a trial run and see what happens. Thanks again for the info my friend
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