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Old 02-03-2011, 07:05 PM   #46
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Yup. Vocabulary is important. In fact, when a neurologist is assessing someone with a brain injury, they typically use vocabulary as a measure of a person's pre-injury cognitive skills.

Games can be good, but of course the most useful thing is to practice the skills you want to use. It actually does become easier over time.

I think that was one of the best things I got out of my short term use of medicine--I trained my brain on some new skills, which were just too hard for unmedicated me.

 
Old 02-04-2011, 01:24 AM   #47
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post
TryAgain,

Hate to tell you, you are not the unique freak mutated singularity you think you are. You are one of us, dude. I understand your thought processes because they were my thought processes and Thunors and most everyone else lurking in this space.

Thu, don't say stuff like "Were you the drooling idiot you're claiming to be." It's too funny. You remind me of me except I'd throw in a predicating "freaking" (euphemism) before "drooling idiot."

TryAgain,

You are a freaking drooling idiot because you absolutely believe that is what you are.

We always act in harmony with our beliefs we hold as absolute truth. You believe absolutely that you are a "freaking drooling idiot." Therefore, that belief governs you and enforces your speech and action to fit the pattern you believe absolutely defines who you are, a "freaking drooling idiot." You said about yourself "Everytime I have to interact with the physical world, I act like a bumbling fool." There is your proof.

You will refuse to believe anything from anyone including those you respect like Jane that even remotely suggest you are not a bumbling, freaking, drooling retart.

How can we prove to you that what you believe to be absolutely true about yourself is absolutely nothing other than a hot steaming plop of poop fresh out the butt end of a big bull?

We can't. Not to worry. Thunor defined the path out. Please memorize: "The point is, the only thing that's going to cure your self image problems is progress. If you came back with a 190 IQ, it would do little to mitigate your feelings of failure, rather it would intensify them. Success is what you need, and you're only going to get that through diagnosis and treatment of whatever's holding you back." - Thunor.

TryAgain,

Please do not raise the IQ thing again. Just go directly to getting the diagnosis and treatment of whatever's holding you back. Success is what you need. When you see patterns of achievement and success on your psychological report card, your core beliefs about yourself will change and will be reflected in your posture you present to the external world. The bumbling fool feeling will be displaced by a feeling of confidence that you are at a command level equal to or greater than those you with whom you interface. People will respond to you with respect. They will take you seriously as man of accomplishment. People can sense what we truely believe about ourselves and respond accordingly. Another really nice benefit is you'll become a babe's man. Babes are attracted to highly confident men. They are repelled by men with low self esteem.

Dude, skip over this IQ crap, and start the process that will transform you into person who want to be and most definitely can be.

Bob
I'm slowly realizing obsessing over this IQ crap is stupid. Nonetheless it is a nagging obsession. As for how you can prove to me that I am not a tard? I'm thinking...

Not totally sure but it have to something that is universally respected, most idiots can pass highschool.

And yes, I'm aware women are repelled by men with low self-esteem. They, like men, are not altruistic creatures by and large. So I'm going to say I don't believe humans are altruistic, but can decent however an element of ego is always involved from my perspective. Which is healthy I guess.
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Last edited by TryAgain121; 02-04-2011 at 01:29 AM.

 
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:16 AM   #48
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunor View Post
As for your 'atrophied skills,' the analogy there is more accurate than you believe. If you exercise your mind and your skills, it will sharpen. That's not to say you can practice your way out of ADHD or another learning disability, but you'd be surprised at how much difference working out your faculties can make. Seriously, check out Luminosity, or The Brain Fitness Program, I've seen dramatic improvements in my own working memory since playing those silly little games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
Yup. Vocabulary is important. In fact, when a neurologist is assessing someone with a brain injury, they typically use vocabulary as a measure of a person's pre-injury cognitive skills.

Games can be good, but of course the most useful thing is to practice the skills you want to use. It actually does become easier over time.

I think that was one of the best things I got out of my short term use of medicine--I trained my brain on some new skills, which were just too hard for unmedicated me.
You guys are codifying the "type of fix" for ADHD that I've been unable to wrap.

Please, put some of this stuff into my ADHD education thread please. I'd just like to see it all in place.

Please.

Bob

 
Old 02-11-2011, 10:35 PM   #49
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Well, about the verbal skills subject, I apparently talked my way out of getting written up at work. Supposedly I "presented myself very well" "and presented my case well" etc. I was actually surprised he said that, considering I was stuttering for most of that meeting. Anyway, I guess I must have some verbal acumen on my side. I just hope it isn't the only thing, lol!

I get what janewhite was saying about vocab being used to assess pre-injury cognitive abilities in brain injury patients, so that would logically extent to being able to assess a healthy brain's level of ability, correct? I just feel like I am not apt in spatial tasks, math (which is understandable as I shunned it as much as possible, passed algerbra though), complex logic (although a co-worker said me and another co-worker were the most logical...doesn't mean anything though), etc.

Somtimes I make embarrassing mistakes and I feel like a dunce, I'm not sure if it is the ADHD, Anxiety, or whatever it is...but when I was on Cymbalta, that seemed to increase attention and memory although I was only on it for seven or so days, and apparently the wide-eyed effect I mentioned earlier is apparent in other users. Sorry for the odd tangent, work has been kind of draining lately.
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.--Confucius

Last edited by TryAgain121; 02-11-2011 at 10:47 PM.

 
Old 02-11-2011, 10:48 PM   #50
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

You also have the ability to use the word "acumen" appropriately, rather than believing it's a type of contact lens designed especially for men.

Good job on not getting written up!

 
Old 02-11-2011, 11:08 PM   #51
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
You also have the ability to use the word "acumen" appropriately, rather than believing it's a type of contact lens designed especially for men.

Good job on not getting written up!

haha, thanks! Although it seems to me that my verbal comprehension lags behind my peers sometimes when it comes to simple concepts, my brain behaves oddly sometimes, well all the time it behaves as such but there is a deepening of that trait on a fair number of occasions enough to the point where I question my general ability in that area, at times.

Anyway, so vocab skills correlate with other types of cognitive skills? How does this work exactly?
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.--Confucius

 
Old 02-12-2011, 09:03 PM   #52
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
You also have the ability to use the word "acumen" appropriately, rather than believing it's a type of contact lens designed especially for men.
You mean that's not what it means?! Well, I'm going to have a word or two for my Optometrist, let me tell you!

 
Old 02-16-2011, 12:15 AM   #53
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

I'm actually thinking of taking a Neuropsychological test, maybe jane could give me a recommendation? (one that screens for learning disorders, and one that most psychologists use).
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.--Confucius

 
Old 02-20-2011, 12:00 PM   #54
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

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Originally Posted by TryAgain121 View Post
I'm actually thinking of taking a Neuropsychological test, maybe jane could give me a recommendation? (one that screens for learning disorders, and one that most psychologists use).
Neuroscience has a good handle relating brain regions to functions.

For example ...

The cerebellum provides smooth, coordinated body movement. Tics and other motor control impluses associated with ADHD emanate from dysfunction somewhere in the cerebellum region.

The frontal lobe contains control centers that affect attention and a slew of other high level function controllers. A "neural signal cable" runs from the frontal lobe into and appears to terminate deep inside the cerebrum.

Neuroscience has suggested that perhaps that cable runs to our datastore.

Do some research. Try to find where our "datastore" is located in the brain.

I'll help you. No one knows WHERE the datastore is. As I stated, neuroscience has got a good grasp on brain regions functional role. But to this day, do NOT know where the freaking data is being stored.

Most brain injuries result in functional damage and the linkage between the damaged brain region and the datastore but do not damage the datastore itself.

If a ping to the datastore returns a large working vocabulary, doctors can draw a pretty good pre-injury high baseline for overall cognitive functioning.

My best guess on "where the data is stored" is based on good server practice. Multiple backup redundancy on location, off location, and if big enough in a big cave in the western mountains where it'll survive a near direct H-bomb hit.

The component location of our datastore spans our entive CNS. "They say" some of the data of learned motor control behaviors such as riding a bicycle, typing and I'll add flying an airplane, are stored in the nerve fibers connected to the muscles being used.

We simply never forget those type skills. Get a little rusty, perhaps, nothing more than an hour or two of neural sandpaper can't fix.

Bob

Later no the neuro-psyche eval.

 
Old 02-22-2011, 08:00 PM   #55
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post
Neuroscience has a good handle relating brain regions to functions.

For example ...

The cerebellum provides smooth, coordinated body movement. Tics and other motor control impluses associated with ADHD emanate from dysfunction somewhere in the cerebellum region.

The frontal lobe contains control centers that affect attention and a slew of other high level function controllers. A "neural signal cable" runs from the frontal lobe into and appears to terminate deep inside the cerebrum.

Neuroscience has suggested that perhaps that cable runs to our datastore.

Do some research. Try to find where our "datastore" is located in the brain.

I'll help you. No one knows WHERE the datastore is. As I stated, neuroscience has got a good grasp on brain regions functional role. But to this day, do NOT know where the freaking data is being stored.

Most brain injuries result in functional damage and the linkage between the damaged brain region and the datastore but do not damage the datastore itself.

If a ping to the datastore returns a large working vocabulary, doctors can draw a pretty good pre-injury high baseline for overall cognitive functioning.

My best guess on "where the data is stored" is based on good server practice. Multiple backup redundancy on location, off location, and if big enough in a big cave in the western mountains where it'll survive a near direct H-bomb hit.

The component location of our datastore spans our entive CNS. "They say" some of the data of learned motor control behaviors such as riding a bicycle, typing and I'll add flying an airplane, are stored in the nerve fibers connected to the muscles being used.

We simply never forget those type skills. Get a little rusty, perhaps, nothing more than an hour or two of neural sandpaper can't fix.

Bob

Later no the neuro-psyche eval.

Right, so what I'm gleaning from what you're saying is that, despite brain injury the datastore usually remains roughly intact so vocab should be a rough indicator of cognitive ability? But anyway...

Something reminded me of taking a psychology class in highschool, and there they administered an IQ test, I put forth very little effort and only put a few minutes into it, and later the teacher came up to me and said "intelligence isn't everything." I laughed. Either A) I'm one of those individuals where I'll have my score change dramatically due to change in effort/energy levels, or B) I'm standing on the line of low average. I'm not sure what made me remember that. Don't mean to bring up the IQ thing again, just a relevant memory that popped out of my hippocampus I thought I'd pass along.
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.--Confucius

Last edited by TryAgain121; 02-22-2011 at 08:02 PM.

 
Old 02-23-2011, 01:20 PM   #56
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

TryAgain,

This is a long one. Please read carefully. Please ask questions. I'm feel confident the info I've turned up will be valuable to you. I want to give you something good instead of hollering all the time about nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryAgain121 View Post
Right, so what I'm gleaning from what you're saying is that, despite brain injury the datastore usually remains roughly intact so vocab should be a rough indicator of cognitive ability? But anyway...
Yes, exactly. I was searching through a slew of documents trying to find the buggy genes that cause us to have this damn attention problem. I was certain that genetics predispose us to ADHD. Many, many, a gadzillion many studies consistently showed that when the kid got ADHD, one of his parents have it, or their siblings or their parents or their parents parents, etc. The pattern conforms to Mendal's laws of inheritance.

I wanted to know specifically where the abnormal genes are located.

I had to search long and hard before locating a study that pointed me to just one of the many possibilities. The study wrapped up on Sept 30, 2010. The other likely locations have not yet been confirmed conclusively. We are in the early infancy stage linking specific genes to the ADHD traits produced. If I decided to do this research six months back, I would have turned up empty handed.

As I was pouring over billions of neuroscience related web pages, I noticed only explanations on the functions associated with each brain module. For example, one side of the cerebrum controls language, speech. The other hemi interprets visual and spatial info. The frontal lobe contains control centers for motor activity and speech, touch and position, auditory and visual reception and memory. Hey, I thought the cerebrum controls speech. Now I see "speech" in the frontal lobe department. Redundacy? Not primarily. "We" interface with the frontal lobe controllers. The frontal lobe speech controller, processes my input, than outputs a neuron friendly signal to the cerebrum speech controller that assembles and controls all the low level brain OS and hardware drivers needed to get speech out of my mouth.

Where is my English datastore located? No one knows, in fact, neuroscience has not yet come up with a good guess where our acquired knowledge is stored. They do know that the frontal lobe controller sits near the top of a top-down process flow. I determine when to call the frontal lobe controller. I'm at the top. Goto - frontal lobe speech controller - to - cerebrum controller that manages the vast low level neurological processes that result in bumbling sounds coming out of my mouth.

Who fetches the English data? The frontal lobe or cerebrum speech controller? Most likely the frontal lobe controller is primary signal linker controller to the datastore.

Science has learned about brain function location from the effects of injury on the location. Damage to the frontal lobe causes loss of control over speech, motor control, touch and position, memory, and one other controller not mentioned previously -- the Executive functions controllers that regulate attention controllers and memory allocation controllers including working memory. Damage to the prefrontal lobe causes a horrible case of ADHD symptoms.

The frontal lobe controllers are programmable automated controllers. I used the English programming language to program my prefrontal speech controller. I must be smart. I learned English effortlessly and you won't believe it, had the bulk of it mastered around age 4. Since then, I don't have to think before I speak - that is - about how to speak in English. I should give more consideration to what I say before I say it.

My impulsiveness stems from another set of programmable automated controllers located in the frontal lobes that psychologists call Executive Function controllers. Automated attention and memory related functions work so well for people without ADHD that they can't possibly understand what we go through. Those fine people mastered many of the attention skills as fast as I mastered English. Research shows a rapid increase of attention and impulse control skills around the age of 3. I experienced the same growth spurt around the age of 53. So I'm slow. Don't go calling me a retart.

TryAgain,

I see red lights. I stop at red lights. Without fail - so far. I have reflex IQ of 135. I'm good at things that require fast and accurate responses and eye-hand-foot cordination. Doesn't all of that take above average focused attention? Yes. But mostly on the Bottom Up functions of attention.

The bottom up functions of attention are initiated by environmental/external stimuli. The red light stimuli -> focuses attention -> timely discrete response -> foot off gas and on brake. Car safely slows to a stop at traffic light. No thinking required. None that I can detect.

I don't experience deficits in bottom up functions of attention. Listening may appear dependant on bottom up attention. Words directed to us -> timely discrete response -> what should be our response? The appropriate response, too listen, is dependant on the top to bottom executive function controllers that in our case are not automated well enough. We want to listen and that should trigger executive function controllers to effortlessly direct our attention to the speaker. You know how it goes. We BS them into thinking were listening but we ain't and we can't. Our thoughts and actions can not be controlled if we can not control our attention. ADHD can make us look and behave dumber than hell. If we get any thing done, it's done months too late. ADHD screws up our abilities to learn, to reason, to plan, do well most anything. What difference in performance is there between ADHD and high IQ; and very low IQ without ADHD? Not one damn bit of difference. ADHD makes us stupid.

I won't yell you ever again about your IQ obsession. You can't help it. The paragraph above explains why.

I have very little time before my business will put end to the reseach I'm doing. You asked about neural - psychological testing. I couldn't answer you at the time because I wasn't sure.

I am confident I'm on the tail of a solution that will work for you. I need to check a few and add a few facts for validation.

I hollered at you in hopes you'd ditch the IQ obsession. I failed to give you something positive that will work for you. Once you see benefits, you'll forget about IQ.

Please read well. Please check back soon. I think about you often. I want to help you. I needed to help me first by doing this research.

Bob

 
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:30 PM   #57
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

My official results came back, I have a 99 IQ, I'm not a smart person. He says it's not representative of my intelligence but I don't care. I really don't see it raising a significant level, at best I'd be mediocre. My verbal IQ is 130, but I boil down to below average, I really don't care how it is officially quantified.

Alot of times I think if you are insecure about something in yourself, it must be true to some extent.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:19 PM   #58
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Bull poop.

TryAgain, please see yourself accurately. All of our cognitive abilities are dependent on our abilility to focus, pay attention, to process information. The damn shrink that tested you is a freaking AH.

I was so worried that a lower IQ score than you had hoped would disable your drive to move ahead. Your 99 score reflects and includes the damage done by ADHD. Please don't allow that score to discourage you. Your functionally IQ will go up to a minimum of 135 once you get the ADHD bug out of the system.

Please don't tell me who shrinked you cuz I just might damage the JO. Tell you what, my damage to the JO would not come close to the damage done to you.

TryAgain, let's form a pact. Let's prove them wrong by achieving more than they thought remotely possible.

I know for a certainty that we have the capacity to blew the shrinks doors off their rusted out BMW.

Let's throw egg in their face by our accomplishments.

Bob

Last edited by addprogrammer; 03-17-2011 at 07:42 PM. Reason: edited s*** to poop

 
Old 03-17-2011, 09:11 PM   #59
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

Quote:
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Bull poop.

TryAgain, please see yourself accurately. All of our cognitive abilities are dependent on our abilility to focus, pay attention, to process information. The damn shrink that tested you is a freaking AH.

I was so worried that a lower IQ score than you had hoped would disable your drive to move ahead. Your 99 score reflects and includes the damage done by ADHD. Please don't allow that score to discourage you. Your functionally IQ will go up to a minimum of 135 once you get the ADHD bug out of the system.

Please don't tell me who shrinked you cuz I just might damage the JO. Tell you what, my damage to the JO would not come close to the damage done to you.

TryAgain, let's form a pact. Let's prove them wrong by achieving more than they thought remotely possible.

I know for a certainty that we have the capacity to blew the shrinks doors off their rusted out BMW.

Let's throw egg in their face by our accomplishments.

Bob
Bob,

I really appreciate the reply. But, there are those with add that score really highly without meds. Even with meds it's not a guarantee. My verbal IQ is 130, with the rest of the tests being discrepant, you'd think the shrink would've suggested some kind of learning disability, obviously something is malfunctioning, right?

Also, if my IQ were to go up 36 points, I'd be a statistical rarity (both from being at such a high level IQ wise but also because it rose so drastically), doubly speaking.
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Last edited by TryAgain121; 03-17-2011 at 09:35 PM.

 
Old 03-18-2011, 04:49 AM   #60
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Re: About the WAIS-IV

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Bob,

Also, if my IQ were to go up 36 points, I'd be a statistical rarity (both from being at such a high level IQ wise but also because it rose so drastically), doubly speaking.
You would not be a statistically rarity. Your verbal IQ gives away your potential without ADHD. Excuse me, your verbal IQ is "only" 130 not 135. How the hecks can a 99 average guy end up with a verbal IQ of 130? The 30 point spread is too great to consider over-achievement as the cause. Your actual IQ of about 130 is being encumbered by moderate to severe ADHD draining your cognitive resources, I think that is the most probable explanation further supported by your ability to grasp with little effort some of rather heady stuff we discuss on this board. Let me tell you, neuro and psychological sciences are in a complexity class that make rocket science look simple.

Thunor and I were flinging around adrenergic receptors. I hope I sounded like I actually knew something about them. I do know in fact know one thing about adrenergic receptors. The prongs of the norepinephrine molecule plug fit so precisely into adrenergic receptors that only the norepi key can open the receptors ion channel and perpetuate the signal through the receiving neuron link in the chain that ends with the actuation of one or more of the brains function modules. My one answer opened Pandoras box and out flew a zillion more questions of greater complexity. I don't have enough years left to get past neuro transmitters that are compositely just small part of the knowledge acquisition and skills to become a neuro scientist.

Wanna know what, TryAgain? You are young enough and smart enough to become neuro scientist if it is something you'd like to pursue.

But first things first. Let's get your ADHD debugged and tweak your operating system to run at its best.

Did the dude performing the tests explain to you the reason for such a high spike in your verbal score? If so, I take back the bad things I said about the moron. I used "moron" because I doubt he did.

Bob

 
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