It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



ADD / ADHD Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2011, 09:36 PM   #46
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,274
addprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

Quote:
Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
I definitely agree with the "brain training" thing. And medication can help overcome both cognitive difficulties and fear-based difficulties, the things you have a mental block about because you've messed them up so many times before.

So writing was a skill I learned on the meds and can now do without them. Paying attention in a lecture-type setting? Still can't do it unless I take Adderall. But at this point in my life, I kinda don't care.
You are adding bark up the tree where I think I see the "ADHD fix coon."

ADHD medications should be primarily used to learn the skills atrophied by ADHD caused disuse. Secondarily the medications can be and should be used to function during the interim.

I love your LADD fix. (Lexture Attention Deficit Disorder). To hell with it. Perfect. Why fix any skillset we do not need? I think determining which to fix important to the overall success of our remediation. I've always hated "lextures."

More on this later.

Bob

 
Old 02-08-2011, 10:49 PM   #47
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,274
addprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB Useraddprogrammer HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

Quote:
Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
Not to bust your bubble, but right now genetic testing is an awful lot more expensive than just going through a few medication trials.

Of course, the expansion in basic science of ADHD is very exciting.

(They do sometimes do genetic testing prior to chemo, where picking the wrong med or wrong dose can cause death.)
Jane,

You did not burst my bubble, you set off a 50 megaton H-bomb at bubble dead center.

Money is the problem.

Let's look at the best ADHD diagnostic tools available.

1. Patient History. Why the hell doesn't every psych/shrink work up a thorough history on each patient? It takes too long. Managed health care dictates how much the doctor is going to get paid. The ins. provider dictates doctor fees. "You are going to get a buck and half and not one cent more to dx ADHD." Working up a history can take hours. I am a big fan of ROI - Return On Investment. A shrink has a minimum of 1 million dollars invested.

Frankly, I'd like to see a minimum of $500/hr return if I made an investment of that magnitude.

The shrink can't afford to delegate the history to a physician's assistant for the little he's going to paid from the managed health "insurance" provider. So our doctor takes the 5 minutes he is paid on, asks a couple good questions, makes a few good observations, then makes the diagnoses.

2. Two diagnostic tools that can be useful for complex cases.

a) qEGG (quantitative electro-encephalograph). The test can detect ADHD's abnormally high beta/theta brain wave power ratio. qEGG are 90% accurate. They suck as primary ADHD diagnostic tools. qEGG are very helpful in finding "a better explanation" for ADHD look-alike symptoms. The qEGG can help the doctor NOT to prescribe an ADHD therapy doomed to fail from the get-go to a therapy likely to help the patient.

b) SPECT scans - absolutely rule in detecting comorbidities. SPECT's are brutally accurate in detecting brain injuries and substance abuse. Hmn, the boy ain't ADHD, the coke he has been snorting is causing ADHD like symptoms. Best therapy, this case, is to "stop snorting coke."

There is NO WAY in hell managed health care is going to pay for a) or b).

History + qEGG + SPECT are not enough for the physician to choose the correct med on the first try.

None of this is relevant to those of us fortunate enough to be prescribed the best med on the first try.

The medication trial and error process for those not so fortunate can be worse than the damn disorder. I see a lot of us including myself that fall into the not-so-fortunate group.

Well, now, Janey, who blew me up with reality. There is NO WAY in hell managed hell care is going to pay for my genetic testing that could make ADHD medication management so much more patient friendly.

I fell like I wasted a lot of time on nothing. The whole freaking problem is money. Neuroscience advancements will only add to the costs that insurance providers will refuse to pay.

Bob

Edit: My typo, "managed hell care" == more accurate description of what we get for our money.

Last edited by addprogrammer; 02-10-2011 at 10:10 AM. Reason: emphasis on typo

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 02-08-2011, 11:20 PM   #48
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Thunor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 547
Thunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB UserThunor HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

True, Bob, managed care isn't going to pay for genetic testing, today. The hope is that if we can establish rules that are relatively hard and fast regarding genetic variance and ADHD, it may be possible that such testing may be available to our children, or perhaps to their children. After all, I'm running programs on my $250 phone today that I couldn't have imagined running on my $2500 desktop computer 20 years ago, and 20 years before that, those same programs would have required million dollar NASA computers.

It's unfortunate that we have to find our medication via trial and error, and that we have to be the guinea pigs in the search for a better way, but the thought that my kids, or my nieces, or the kid next door might not have to endure this frustrating process makes me feel better about the whole thing.

 
The Following User Says Thank You to Thunor For This Useful Post:
addprogrammer (02-09-2011)
Old 02-09-2011, 07:41 AM   #49
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,381
Blog Entries: 32
janewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

(addressed to last 2 posts, my mouse is too cranky to quote partial replies properly.)

I think you're both right. Bob, you're approaching a fundamental problem with entire health care systems: New technology makes health care more expensive. A couple generations ago, advanced cancer meant a few months of morphine and nursing care. Now we can (sometimes) fix it, for a cost high in the six figure range.

Back in the day, people with ADHD or other moderately severe mental health issues would either learn to get by on their own, or live a life of personal and financial instability, contributing far less to society, but not costing the health care system. Now we use up psychiatric, pharmaceutical and educational resources, but society gets more productive adults. It's a trade off.

But, Thunor has a good point, sometimes the costs of a particular technology do come down to the point that it can be more widely used. Genetic testing used to be a lot more expensive than it is--and once you know the exact marker you're looking for, and large numbers of people are being tested for it, the price comes down further.

 
The Following User Says Thank You to janewhite1 For This Useful Post:
addprogrammer (02-10-2011)
Old 07-11-2012, 04:25 PM   #50
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: new york, ny
Posts: 19
hwc2020 HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

Bob,

I'm brand new to this board and like what you have to say, and your extensive knowledge and research. I am seeking out support for my 10 year old son. I've never heard of guafanice? Does it go under a 'generic' name? My son is fairly mild but has developed tics/ocd type behavior. We began medication last year (lowest dose of concerta). The rebound is awful, he lost weight, and he's not a big kid to begin with. We've had him off meds sine beginning of June but definitely impulse issues, negativity, can't stay on track, etc... the usual suspects. I would welcome and appreciate your opinion. Best, hwc.

 
Old 07-11-2012, 05:05 PM   #51
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,381
Blog Entries: 32
janewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB Userjanewhite1 HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

Guanfacine is the generic name. INTUNIV is the brand name.

 
Old 07-11-2012, 05:13 PM   #52
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: new york, ny
Posts: 19
hwc2020 HB User
Re: ADHD education of critical importance

Wow! Thank you. I have a prescription for that for my son. We went to a pharmapsychiatrist who gave him adderall first (I read about it and refused to give it to him), then she gave intuniv (but I read negative stuff so never tried it) and went with Concerta. I like the sound of intuniv, based on the neurotransmitter uptakes vs. being like a zombie. Do you think I should try it for him? I just found this board and have already gotten more from 'it' than the doctors. Thank you very much. Best,

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
My ADHD type addprogrammer ADD / ADHD 11 05-01-2010 04:32 PM
How adderall affects those with ADHD and those that don't guy4009 ADD / ADHD 13 10-04-2009 05:57 AM
My son has ADHD and he is 11 bunny1975 ADD / ADHD 4 06-27-2008 04:59 AM
ADHD is a Disorder addprogrammer ADD / ADHD 36 07-16-2007 01:28 AM
ADHD and T.V. and "homeschooling" lilylia ADD / ADHD 3 05-10-2005 05:20 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Adderall
Amphetamine
Concerta
Metadate
Methylphenidate
  Prozac
Ritalin
Strattera
Wellbutrin
Zoloft




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



addprogrammer (94), janewhite1 (90), Thunor (48), marisuela (15), iluv (10), addventurous (10), Administrator (9), LessStress38 (9), CharBerry (6), Wootton (6)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1180), MSJayhawk (1013), Apollo123 (909), Titchou (856), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (763), ladybud (755), midwest1 (670), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:59 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!