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Old 01-04-2011, 07:19 AM   #1
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Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Does anyone know of how Amphetamines "destroy" the pleasure center (whatever that is) of the brain? JB

 
Old 01-04-2011, 04:58 PM   #2
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

When you take extremely high doses of amphetamines, generally by injection or snorting, they can stimulate the pleasure-producing cells of your brain so much that some of the cells die. This is the "burnout" seen in longtime illegal drug users. In extreme cases, it can turn into a form of Parkinson's Disease.

This cannot happen from taking ADHD pills at any remotely normal dosage. In fact, I don't think it's possible to get it from taking a drug orally at all, you'd hit lethal OD first.

 
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:11 AM   #3
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Thanks Janewhite, I had not heard of this before, I'm just searching for answers why I'm so un-motivated and just seem to care less and less, even though I'm on 2 SSRI's and Adderall. I've heard Adderall can sometimes cause "odd" feelings of "dduuhhh" when mixed with SSRI's. I wonder if I should go back to regular Dexedrine, I don't know why I don't feel "Happy" so much of the time, I guess too many stressors can pile up and the meds can only help just so much, I'm searching for answers, don't see my Psych Doc for 2 more months. I want to feel good again, that's all. JB

 
Old 01-05-2011, 04:46 PM   #4
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Now, Dexedrine and similar drugs can TEMPORARILY wear out your "pleasure center." I'm not totally sure of the mechanism, but people who've been on relatively high doses of psychostimulants for a while can feel very blah when the drug is withdrawn.

However, the effect subsides with time.

 
Old 01-05-2011, 10:57 PM   #5
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Jane,

I don't think an LD-50 has been established for amphetamines. You can kill yourself alright but not by OD.

Methamphetamine is the stimulant most abused on the streets. Meth is an extremely powerful stimulant. It cascades dopamine reuptake with presynaptic dopamine generation and boosts dopamine transporters as well. Meth floods the brain with dopamine and does nothing to cause unwanted side-effects. The intensely euphoric side effect is most welcomed by abusers.

A few speed freaks have survived 1000 milligrams (a full gram) of methamphetamine. Nevertheless, meth abuse devastates the brain and every other organ and muscle and bone and teeth, everything in the body is ruined by meth abuse in just a few short years in young abusers. Older abusers don't last as long. Stroke or heart attack brings them to a more merciful end quicker.

Methamphetamine causes a gross neural chemical imbalance when taken at high doses. Its therapeutic dose is probably in the 10 to 15 mg range. It could be useful for some with severe ADHD but the politics will forever prevent the medical use of meth.

A point you helped me wrap my head around: Stimulants normalize brain chemistry when used to control ADHD. Stimulants used medically reduce chemical imbalances not cause them. Amphetamines become health food in our case. It is true that if you must use high doses to control ADHD symptoms, and quit taking the med, blah brain results. The effect does subside quickly. We forget about the absent for some time ADHD symptoms now back in full bloom and attribute them to stimulant withdrawal. I suspect that extends the perceived blah brain feeling.

Bob

 
Old 01-06-2011, 11:13 AM   #6
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Bob,

I don't want to derail things, so I'll keep this short. Methamphetamine is legal for treatment of ADHD and obesity in the US (though not in Canada), marketed under the name Desoxyn. Obviously, in this day and age where you Americans can't even get your hands on Dexedrine, I suspect it's nearly impossible to get a scrip, but it is, technically, a legal option (and you're right, I believe the therapeutic range is 10-20mg).

 
Old 01-06-2011, 02:19 PM   #7
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

You are exactly right, Thunor, Desoxyn is treated like a Schedule 1 drug, nearly impossible to get a scrp for. Dexedrine, on the other hand, was prescribed to me for several years, but that was several years ago. I don't know about the prescribing practices of Dex, it's medical protocols and jargon, I just wondered if was still in Pharmacies in the good ol' U.S. (if they stock it, Dr.,s are writing scrips for it, right?) Thanks, JB

 
Old 01-06-2011, 04:51 PM   #8
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

When I was last filling a script for Dexedrine, about seven years ago, I went to like 4 pharmacies before finding one that offered to order it for me. No one had it in stock, the others just said, "try somewhere else," which is not the normal response of a pharmacist who just happens to have run out. Normally they make more of an effort.

 
Old 01-07-2011, 12:35 AM   #9
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

I remember Bob (addprogrammer) took a run at Dexedrine a short while ago, and managed a scrip. As I recall, he eventually gave up and went back to Adderall because of the difficulty he had finding a pharmacy that would provide it (Bob, correct me if my memory is faulty).

 
Old 01-07-2011, 06:33 AM   #10
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Wierd, I take dexadrine and have no troubles. Dexadrine XR is that the difference?

Pup

 
Old 01-07-2011, 07:14 AM   #11
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

I suppose if folks can get it in certain parts of the country, it's still around, I think the newer ones (Vyvanse) are pushed a bit harder by the drug companies, more $ in it, I suppose, but even though Vyvanse is a hopped-up version of Dex, it made me feel wierd when I tried it, hear it does many others like that. Bottom line: Why try to fix something that ain't broke? Dex is a good ADHD drug, it's just being pushed aside for the newer stuff, don't that make sense?

 
Old 01-18-2011, 10:55 PM   #12
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunor View Post
I remember Bob (addprogrammer) took a run at Dexedrine a short while ago, and managed a scrip. As I recall, he eventually gave up and went back to Adderall because of the difficulty he had finding a pharmacy that would provide it (Bob, correct me if my memory is faulty).
Thu,

I was able to get from Walmart generic Dexedrine CR for 2 months. On the second refill, the pharmacist informed me that Walmart could not get "CR" any longer. I should note that I'm on a first name basis with all the pharmacists at Walmart as I've done business with them for over 10 years. I did check, or more accurately, my wife checked with nearly every pharmacy in the twin city area of Scranton-Wilkes Barre PA. NADA. She was laughed off the phone in some cases.

I can get Dex IR at Walmart. And now after my GP flamed the pharmacy associated with her nationally recognized health care group, there too. I have a long term relationship with my GP. Her two ADHD teenage boys DO help my cause considerably. She takes ADHD damn seriously.

Desoxyn? It might as well be Schedule I. Ain't no doctor NOR pharmacy gonna get anyone Desoxyn in these parts. Is NEPA a "special" place? A "respected lawyer" (oxymoron?) had prescriptions from 35 "out-of-process" albeit unknown-to-them synchronous doctors for oxymoron, opps, I mean oxycodone. Hit the news about a month ago. We have a county government infamous for corruption in these parts. They make national news headlines, (perhaps international news) regularly.

So, that's the low down, my Canadian friend. Us, U.S. citizens, I'm embarrassed to say, are a bunch of pill popping prescription drug abusers. Shame, shame, shame on US.

Bob

Last edited by addprogrammer; 01-19-2011 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Not Plural, Not Possessive, Plural Pharmacists

 
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:06 AM   #13
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Bob,

In my experience, stimulant regulations here are arbitrary and, at times, downright random. For example, I can get Dex CR, on a standard scrip, from any pharmacy with no problems, I used to fill mine at the local Safeway. Generic Methylphenidate, on the other hand, requires a triplicate prescription which cannot be refilled and is limited to a maximum of one month supply (my psych generally prescribes me 4 months at a time, my pharmacy breaks it down to monthly refills so my insurance will pay for it, but technically I could walk away from the pharmacy with enough Dex CR to start a business. ). Other options, such as Focalin, Daytrana, Metadate and others are simply not available to us as they're not legal. We do have our very own, made in Canada, version of Concerta called Biphentin (this is in addition to Concerta).

I've read accounts of Canadians trying to get their hands on Desoxyn, as it supposedly is a very effective medication with a lower incidence of side effects than standard amphetamine-based meds. It is, of course, illegal here (ironic, considering that Dex CR can be had as easily as candy), but some have had cooperative doctors and psychiatrists willing to try to help patients receive a 'Minister's Exemption' in order to legally order it from the US. A Minister's Exemption can be granted only by the Federal Minister of Health, so it's roughly similar to writing a letter to the Surgeon General (?) asking for a personal exemption. I know of no cases where anyone's had success.

I think, in the end, it all comes down to money and politics. We will, in Canada, only have those options available that the drug companies are willing to spend enough money to push the Ministry of Health to legalize. Case in point, Adderall was banned in Canada for a short time in 2005, because someone found it causes heart attacks in student athletes that have preexisting heart conditions. It was, of course, eventually reintroduced because Shire was willing to push the Canadian government hard enough. Naturally, this reintroduction also allowed them to extend the Canadian patent for Adderall to 2019. As a side note, only Adderall XR was re-legalized, we still don't have access to Adderall IR here.

Another aside, while researching this post, I found out that there is a dextromethylphenidate medication (Attenade) that is legal in Canada, at least, a patent has been issued (supposedly all the way back in 2003). The medication has not, however, been brought to market, and there is no information on when this might happen.

 
Old 01-19-2011, 01:28 PM   #14
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

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It was, of course, eventually reintroduced because Shire was willing to push the Canadian government hard enough. Naturally, this reintroduction also allowed them to extend the Canadian patent for Adderall to 2019.
With what did Shire push the Canadian government?

Hint: Shire did not develop Vyvanse. They "monied up" New River Pharmaceuticals. Shire dangled a few hundred million "bonus" check under New River's nose for a Schedule III on Vyvanse.

Shire got to keep what amounted to a "pittance" compared to the market share they lost with C-II on Vyvanse bottles.

Are we missing something here? Vyvanse cannot be snorted or injected. Why the Schedule II?

Someone figured out that "simply" swallowing popped pills can accomplish the "job" pretty nicely.

What has been accomplished? A few well-connected pharmaceutical corporate types have made a few more billion. They buy Federal friends on both sides of the 49th parallel, evidently.

Haven't we've gone over this before a few thousand times?

Nothing changed. But keep me posted.

Bob

Last edited by addprogrammer; 01-19-2011 at 01:35 PM. Reason: No edit. Impluse controlled.

 
Old 01-20-2011, 05:49 AM   #15
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Re: Amphetamines and the "pleasure center"

Dex is a C-2 like all the other true amphetamines, so it don't surprise me. What does is that they TRIED to make it a C-3. JB

 
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