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Old 03-11-2011, 10:33 PM   #1
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504/IEP

Does anyone have examples of methods used for either plan in addressing impassive ADHD?

 
Old 03-14-2011, 06:58 PM   #2
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Re: 504/IEP

I'm not really knowledgeable at all in this area.

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Old 03-15-2011, 06:16 AM   #3
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Re: 504/IEP

Mom,

Impassive ADHD is a new to me term. My hat goes off to the doctor that dxed "impassive ADHD." He/she understands that ADHD wraps many more symptoms than attention deficit. You got a good one.

I researched "impassive ADHD" and learned "impassive ADHD" is combination of primarily inattentive ADD and emotional lability. Interestingly, stimulant medications cause emotional lability in some children with ADHD.

On the other hand, evidence suggests that stimulants can result in significant improvement for children with ADD and emotional lability, that is, children dxed with "impassive ADHD."

Primarily inattentive ADD responds well to relatively high doses of d-amphetamine. IMHO, your boy needs medication first before any cognitive-behavioral type therapies can possibly help.

I had my appointment with my psychiatrist yesterday. I mentioned to him some of the ADHD genetic markers I recently read up on. My doc told me he has been involved in some of the recent ADHD genetic research. He validated that what I learned is accurate. And he confirmed the obvious. Researchers are just now, that is, from the year 2010 forward, understanding the biology of ADHD. DNA is the backdoor through neuro-encryption, right into brain's best kept secrets.

Dopamine is biosynthesized in the body from the amino acid L-tyrosine to L-DOPA to dopamine. Can't we simply take L-tyrosine supplements to boost dopamine levels in the brain thus remedy ADHD?

Yes, if our diet is L-tyrosine deficient, L-tyrosine supplements will help anyone to feel calmer.

Those of us with typical ADHD do not have a neural dopamine deficit. The dopamine packaging system is flawed. The dopamine we have in abundance isn't being packaged properly into the vesicles. In effect, the vesicles have a half load when they should have a full load of dopamine. When the presynaptic neuron "sparks" the vesicles open, the vesicles release their half half load into the synapse.

Moderate to severe ADHD stemming from problems in the presynaptic processing of dopamine or norepinephrine cannot be managed with diet or exercise. All types of ADHD are exascerbated by poor diet, a lack of exercise and sleep. Some types of ADHD can be effectively controlled by diet and exercise. Food allergies can cause ADHD like symptoms and be the environmental factor that triggers ADHD.

Has your doctor suggested medication?

It might be worth looking into.

I tried my best to describe "therapies" that work well. Your child needs one-on-one interaction with you and his teachers that will help him learn how to "talk-to-himself." I'm so sorry I messed up with my stupid tom-foolery. I guess Bob-foolery more accurate. Either way, I diluted the excellent advise you got in THAT thread.

Bob

 
Old 03-15-2011, 06:34 AM   #4
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Re: 504/IEP

Since they edited out my link, just google "504 IEP" if you have not already. The first result (IEPs versus 504 Plans) seems to have quite a bit of information.

Last edited by Hoshi112; 03-15-2011 at 06:34 AM.

 
Old 03-15-2011, 07:21 AM   #5
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Re: 504/IEP

Thanks for all of the health and input. It's always appreciated.

Hoshi, I had copied that link earlier but didn't have time to look into it that much. I'll take a look at my history and see if I can find it. The other search info is a good idea as well. I need to educate myself on which plan he may qualify for and what each one can offer him.

This is all new to me even though we've been coping with the symptoms for a while now. Behaviors that seemed like a lack of trying or willpower now make sense. I don't get upset as I used to which can do nothing but help the situation. It is a complicated disorder that isn't understood and looking for treatments online hasn't resulted in much success. We'll be very happy once we have gotten a diagnoses from all of the places we've requested one.

The school started a 'screening process' without discussing it with us. That has me very ticked off. They are doing just enough so that they don't have to ask permission from us which I think is unprofessional. As a parent who is dealing with daily behavioral issues, it is irresponsible to be pulling him out of class all the time without giving me the heads up. I went in and had a talk with the school when I found out about it and expressed my dissatisfaction.

Now I have requested a full evaluation and I have to be kept up to date on that process and give my permission for it. That way when it is done we'll know right where we are and the legal entitlements for our son.

That, on top of getting some behavioral help now, then a hospital evaluation soon should give us a full picture. We won't just have one opinion to go by and hopefully can make the right decisions.

Since we feel clueless about how to help him right now we will be seeing a psychologis before the psychiatrist to assist with improving behaviors.

Something else that irked me beyond words is that the woman doing the unofficial screening asked my son if there was anything at home that was keeping him from being able to concentrate.

Isn't that just the perfect example of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about asking questions they have no business asking. I was livid. As Bob mentioned, while home life, parenting, diet, etc are all important, the research is starting to show that there is a strong genetic component. This whole 'blame the parent' mentality for the child's behaviors needs to be altered via education...for the educators as well as for the public.

Sorry to go on...instead of Tomfoolery it's Momfoolery.

Some in the scientific community believe that ADHD is a biological condition resulting from dysfunction in the brain. That areas of the frontal cortex are not behaving as they should resulting in difficulty with executive functions i.e.: attention, planning, reasoning, etc.

I'll take my lumps as a parent and do eveything I can to help my son, but I'm not going to put up with a Freudian assessment that I'm the smoking gun.

Whatever will help, including medications, we are open to. Although, I can't help but feel like my son will become a neurological guinea pig with medication of which the results are unknown.

I myself have an autoimmune, neurological disorder and take various medications including an antiepileptic one. I know that I need this medication and I know it has side effects. And risks.

Anyway, I really am sorry to ramble on. It's been such a hard time. But during one of my son's emotional outbursts, crying, banging, storming around, he told me himself that he can't control. He yelled "Do you think I want to be like this? I hate my life!" All from being asked to stop one activity and start his homework. It makes me cry too.

 
Old 03-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #6
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Re: 504/IEP

Quote:
Originally Posted by mominbucks View Post

I'll take my lumps as a parent and do eveything I can to help my son, but I'm not going to put up with a Freudian assessment that I'm the smoking gun.

Whatever will help, including medications, we are open to. Although, I can't help but feel like my son will become a neurological guinea pig with medication of which the results are unknown.

I myself have an autoimmune, neurological disorder and take various medications including an antiepileptic one. I know that I need this medication and I know it has side effects. And risks.
Mom,

Anyone accusing you even indirectly of being the smoking guy should be shot through the frontal lobe with the gun. Said accusers will discover the biological nature of ADHD in a heck of a hurry. Congress woman Gabrielle Giffords will not recover fully. She will have ADHD symptoms, most likely severe, from the injury. The senselessness of the crime is so appalling that I'd gladly execute the SOB responsible if given the opportunity. And if some bozo shrink comes up with a neuro-biological basis for an "insanity" defense, I'll gladly shoot the shink first then execute the criminal.

Freud wasn't a total fraud. He realized the role that the unconscious and sub-conscious mind play in a few mental disorders. Freud kinda went overboard when he attributed repressed memories of sexual abuse as the cause of all mental disorders. Some historians believe cocaine skewed Freud's thinking. I'll bet those historians are correct.

Freud is a fraud because he had no evidence based proof that his "talk therapies" were effective. The fact is, he helped very few patients, but claimed he helped most. Freud pressured his patients into concocting memories of child hood abuse. Most of Freud's patients developed more mental disorders because of the "good doctor." Freud was the consummate scientific method cheat.

What's more, the behaviorist school of thought ran concurrently with Freud's frauds. Behaviorists would like us to believe that we are solely the product of our genetics and environment. Behaviorists, like Freud, went way overboard. They believed genetic and environmental influences to be irresistible forces that control our every thought and movement. Bad parenting is why a child behaves irresponsibly for his age. Bad parenting is why a criminal becomes a criminal.

How did the derogatory term "shrink" come about. Up until circa 1990, Freudian analysis and behaviorist methods were exclusively and religiously the shrinks stock in trade. Psychiatry was a joke, not a science. Psychiatrists became medical doctors when they began using medicine to treat biologically based mental disorders. Medications can be used in conjunction with therapies used for disorders without a biological cause such as PTSD since PTSD adversely affects the biology of the brain.

Back on subject. The extraordinary care you are giving your son is so obvious to us on this board. Your same care is as obvious to the school administrators. Their ignorance of ADHD's biological basis is no excuse. Keeping current on advances in the science of ADHD is part of teachers and school administrators job description. MD's set a bad example by not staying current either. Your sense that your son will become a neurological guinea pig is based in reality ... the reality that most doctors including many psychiatrists continue to apply Freud's frauds and flawed behaviorism to ADHD. What infuriates me to no end, is no one, your son included, need be a guinea pig any longer.

What to do? I think you are doing all that you can do. I certainly think the doctor that diagnosed your son is a keeper. The "impassive ADHD" diagnosis strongly suggests to me that your doc is current on the science. I'd trust his medication judgment.

Freud's frauds and the extreme views that behaviorists once held true continue to affect public opinion of ADHD. Very few people without ADHD believe ADHD is a disorder. The ubiquitous "they" say, it's a personality type. Or if "they" concede ADHD to be a disorder, ADHD can't possibly cause serious life ruining dysfunction. Most preach, swat the kid into line. Or "they" insist ADHD isn't anything a good diet and some exercise can't fix. And, of course, they put the smoking gun into your hands. You now know what I think you should do with that gun. But don't do it. You'll get into trouble.

I foolishly thought I could affect a small change for the better by coming up with evidence based facts that shed light on the true nature of ADHD.

Know the facts to prevent being swayed by public opinion and bozo doctors into a course of treatment that will do more harm than good. That's the best I can do. And I couldn't even do that if it were not for other members of this board most notably Thunor and JaneTheBrainWhite. Both have brilliant minds. They always made me think harder, dig deeper and added invaluable information to my ADHD datastore. I must recognize the input of many others, unnamed, but of equal value to me.

I must close my neuro-science, neuro-psychology education shop and devote myself to my money making biz. Cuz, while money is not the secret of happiness, the lack of money is DEFINITELY one of the primary causes of MISERY. I hate misery. That is why I have aggressively attacked my ADHD cuz it DOES put a hurting on our money earning potential.

Bob

 
Old 03-15-2011, 06:21 PM   #7
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Re: 504/IEP

Quote:
Originally Posted by mominbucks View Post
Something else that irked me beyond words is that the woman doing the unofficial screening asked my son if there was anything at home that was keeping him from being able to concentrate.
She didn't mean anything against you - it's standard procedure, to be honest. I'm a psychology major - I'll be starting my thesis soon - and I'm currently in a psychological testing class. So I guess I see this from a different perspective.

Think about it this way...some parents are not as observant as others, or there may be things going on the parents dont know, like a sibling bothering them in their room while trying to do homework, etc. They are just trying to rule environmental factors out. She wasn't trying to imply you were a bad mother or anything of that sort. It's just a question they have to ask.
You'd be surprised how complex some of these assessments can be and the things that the psychologist or interviewer notes and records.

For example, I had to perform a standard MSE (Mental Status Exam). We note things you would never think of - how to person is dressed, their posture, their gait, if they were on time for their appointment. There's lots of little things that could indicate problems....things you would never think of unless you were trained to look for them.

I just hate for you to be upset over something where there was no malicious intent. They have to rule out environmental factors causing distraction and often the child knows better what distracts him than his parents do. They're just covering their bases and trying to avoid misdiagnosing him with ADHD if the problem is more an environmental one.

As far as meds go, it's up to you....but just make sure you don't believe everything you hear. A lot of people (without ADHD kids) love to tell you how you need to give them all these herbal remedies that'll suddenly make him not ADHD. WRONG! I have researched and looked and looked and I've yet to find any non-prescription medicine that is a suitable alternative to prescription meds. Most are ineffective at best, harmful at worst. Some people assume because it's "all natural" that it must be safe, but that is a dangerously incorrect notion. So use caution and check sources. Some of these so-called treatments will claim studies show it works, but after some digging you'll find that study was done by them on 10 children.
Basically, they can say anything they want, make up any results. A true study is independent from the manufacturer, done on a large population, double-blind and peer reviewed. In statistics, the central limit theorem states that at a sample size of 30, a distribution will approach normal....in other words, 30 is absolute minimum number of participants to have any validity whatsoever, and 30 is still very small and you run the risk of the results being due to chance alone. In stats this is a type 2 error when you fail to reject a false null.

Anyway, I ramble, but I'm just sayin', be careful. I started meds when I was 20, and boy do I wish I had been diagnosed and medicated when I was a child. It made my childhood much more unpleasant than it needed to be and caused a lot of heartache for both me and my mother. Usually, most people find a combination of medication and behavior therapy to be the best solution. Behavior therapy seems to do only a little on its own, but once they are medicated, they can actually begin to modify their behavior.
The right med for your child will not make them into a zombie or anything like that. My mind clears up when I take my medication - like the fog dissipates. It's still me, just a happier me who can think better and stay on task. The only thing is that the first med they try may not be the right one for him. You may have to try a couple medications. Don't be discouraged. Stick with it and it will pay off!
In the end though, it's whatever you think is best for your child. You're the mother, it's your choice.

 
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:39 PM   #8
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Re: 504/IEP

Hoshi,

Your info is right on target. I value it.

May I take one exception? I do not have your training, nevertheless I am aware that learning to observe patients is a one of the skills you learned. For example, I walk with my psychiatrist to his office. While walking, I am talking. On one visit, I replied to his "how are you doing?" with "Life sucks." My doctor laughed. He immediately saw through my body langauge my response had nothing to do with my mental health. Sometimes life just sucks because things go wrong.

On another occasion, I replied with a meekish "OK." My doctor immediately took "OK" seriously, didn't laugh, probed to determine the reason for the serious setback I was experiencing. He asked me to bring my wife to our next appointment. I did not feel untrusted by my doc. I knew he needed more than my badly distorted perception of what ailed me. He needed my wife's more objective observations.

My doctor was NOT operating behind my back.

Read Mom again: "The school started a 'screening process' without discussing it with us. That has me very ticked off. They are doing just enough so that they don't have to ask permission from us which I think is unprofessional. As a parent who is dealing with daily behavioral issues, it is irresponsible to be pulling him out of class all the time without giving me the heads up. I went in and had a talk with the school when I found out about it and expressed my dissatisfaction."

Mom has every right to feel violated. The school had no right conducting a medical screening process on a minor child without parental consent. What the school did is criminal. They used a loop hole to get around the law. I'd go see the meanest unprincipled lawyer to give the school a taste of their own medicine. And sue the school for $20 billion dollars for good measure.

I'll be back shortly with a therapy that works wonders for me. Perhaps it can be applied in principle to a child.

Bob

 
Old 03-15-2011, 08:32 PM   #9
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Re: 504/IEP

This discussion has brought up so many interesting ideas and topics.

The thing is Hoshi, I have no problem with a licensed professional treating my son and asking him those types of questions at the right time and in the right place. An issue arises however when someone who is not qualified starts asking a child personal questions at the wrong times. I majored in sociology and psychology in college. In these subjects it is especially true that a little knowledge can be very dangerous. Where a child is concerned one needs to tread lightly. Once my son goes in for his full evaluations we will a have a complete idea of how all of the parts go together.

I'm sure that you're probably right and that she probably meant nothing malicious in her questioning, but having started this process without my knowledge makes me feel very critical nonetheless. I have a good friend who works as a child advocate and she went with me to the school. She said that basically the school was skirting the law with this 'screening' and that I should request a full, legal evaluation immediately..Which I did. They'd found a loop hole like Bob said. Once they finally called me in so that they could present the results of this screening I would have felt ganged up on and bamboozled.

My point to the school was that we are trying to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together. If they don't communicate to me what they are finding or doing I cannot share that with the other professionals who will be treating him.

One more thing about the screening before I get off my soap box, at least temporarily, is that when you have a child struggling with emotional and functional issues the school can't just go pulling him here, there and everywhere during the day without my needing to be informed. Sometimes my son comes home from school very stressed out and can't explain why. It's important that I'm part of the process.

My son is also dealing with some serious medical issues at the same time. If the school doesn't work with me the results of their screening may be very skewed because he'll need one more minor operation. That's what I mean about putting the parts together. Correctly. If I had the time I might sue the school but I'm just too busy.

There is so much truth to this Bob:

"Very few people without ADHD believe ADHD is a disorder. The ubiquitous "they" say, it's a personality type. Or if "they" concede ADHD to be a disorder, ADHD can't possibly cause serious life ruining dysfunction. Most preach, swat the kid into line. Or "they" insist ADHD isn't anything a good diet and some exercise can't fix."

Two of my friends have children with Aspersers. They have always known that I completely understand when their children act up in ways that other people may judge incorrectly. There are no easy fixes and they have both felt 'mother blame' from other people who don't get it. Both boys are so sweet, smart, wonderful and special. We have to accept the whole person as they and we all are; so flawed and yet so perfect.

Others have given me advice on 'cracking down' on bad behavior for my son. I wish I hadn't listened. It caused us both a lot of unneeded suffering for a condition that he can't help having. I didn't know that though.

When I was at my dentist a while back she jokingly mentioned that we are all becoming like Petri dishes of experiments. With all of the different medications that so many people are taking and mixing there is no way to know what the results will be.

What worries me, really worries me, are the unforeseen, long-term, and possibly negative results of introducing medications to a little growing mind/brain with all of the side effects and risks that come with them. It will become a balance of wanting to improve my son's life while trying to protect him at the same time. The drug companies aren't exactly nonprofit entities working solely for the common good.

As I mentioned, I am on various medications for a medical condition that has to be treated for me to get through a day intact. It's changed who I am though. I am altered both from my condition and then separately from the medication. My reactions to the drugs are different than they are from my fiancé even though we both share the same disorder.

So in good conscience I have to consider this although it's true that we are exposed to 'drugs' in all forms every day. It is a highly charged, chemicalized, processed and polluted atmosphere that we are unknowingly bathed in everyday. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Geeze, I better try and get some sleep. We have to get up and do this all over again tomorrow.

Last edited by hlepforson; 03-15-2011 at 08:36 PM.

 
Old 03-15-2011, 10:11 PM   #10
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Re: 504/IEP

Mom,

All of my ADHD related serious difficulties are caused by my inability to hold thought objects in working memory long enough to be processed. I suspect most of us with ADHD have the same under the hood problem with working memory. All executive functions are adversely affected.

I know of just one psychologist in NEPA that uses cognitive-behavorial therapies effective for ADHD. The strategies he taught me help me work around my buggy excessively volatile mental RAM.

I use one universal spiral bound notebook that serves as part journal, part scratch sheet, part task lists and full time "Start Here" bucket for everything in my life. I can usually keep track of the where abouts of one notebook thus always know where to start my tasks and projects. The active ingredient in my one universal notebook is simplification.

Life is just too complicated for my notebook alone strategy.

I just added 14 new tasks to my list containing 15 in- process tasks in my universal notebook. My mind is in chaos. I can't process the 14 new tasks into logical groups and merge them into my schedule for the next four days. All 14 should be and can be completed in the next four days. I will accomplish nothing as long as my mind remains in chaos.

My solution is both simple and powerful. I added my 14 new items to my digitally recorded 15 item task list. I'll listen to the entire list with the folder set on repeat mode. Within two or three replays I'll begin processing the 14 new items into logical groups and then logically merge the groups in sequence into my schedule for the next 4 days. I'll end up with a mental map that I can persist and continue thinking over -- "self talk" is enabled.

I am confident all 14 items will be completed on time.

My recorded todo lists work around my buggy mental RAM.

Others have used ADHD coaches to accomplish the same. You and your child's teachers must become his ADHD coach. The skillful use of questions is the best way to help him learn how to think. Statements just do not work with us unless you don't mind repeating yourself a few thousand times.

I am absolutely confident you will come off the victor. Yep, you'll lose a bloody battle or two but you'll win the war. Your son will be just fine.

Bob

 
Old 03-16-2011, 07:57 AM   #11
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Re: 504/IEP

I must have not read well, I was seeing the process being started and that interview as being separate. I also thought the person was qualified. Oopsie!
I think they should have informed you - he's your child, you need to know, and it's your decision to begin with.
I would be angry too if they started a process like that with my son without consulting me...if I had kids, that is. So I see where you're coming from and I agree with you.

 
Old 03-16-2011, 10:58 AM   #12
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Re: 504/IEP

Mom,

I too would worry myself sick over ADHD medications being given to a child. Let's again go to the facts strongly supported by evidence gained over the past 40 years through many case histories and scientific studies. Stimulant medications are among the safest meds prescribed for children.

Give this ***** page a read.
http://www.*****.com/add-adhd/guide/adhd-treatment-overview

Why then would I worry? We need a caveat and a caveat emptor addendum attached to the ***** page.

Caveat 1) Stimulant meds are among the safest if prescribed to correct disrupted neurotransmitter signal flow through the dopamine and norepinephrine signal pathways. And said disrupted neurotransmission is one of the primary causes of the ADHD type. And no other medical problems contraindicate the use of stimulant meds. And the stimulant is dosed within their narrow window of efficacy. Stimulants help with attention up to the top of a very narrow bell curve of efficacy. A dose just over the peak begins to adversely affect attention. I previously mentioned that stimulants can cause emotional lability in some children with ADHD. Not true. Stimulants cause emotional lability in everyone when the dose is too high.

If Caveat 1) conditions and cautions are satisfied, stimulants are more than safe, they help manage ADHD's potentially dangerous consequences by reducing ADHD symptoms and the stimulant efficacy comes with few if any adverse long term side effects.

On the other hand, if caveat cautions are ignored, stimulant medications become dangerous medications. I would worry myself sick over my choice of doctors. I'd agonize over the doctors credentials by asking lots of questions. The psychiatric license hanging on his wall qualifies him for the interview, nothing more. One wrong answer given during his interview application to work for me disqualifies him from the job. I am not talking about "wrong" answers that run contrary to my opinion. I mean any answer that runs contrary to current medically accepted practices.

Caveat 2) I cannot find any evidence for a few of the statements made on the ***** page. ***** states "other FDA-approved drugs for ADHD in children include the nonstimulants Strattera ...(and Intuniv) Strattera works on levels of the brain chemical norepinephrine and is quite effective at treating and controlling ADHD symptoms."

I won't believe it until one person with ADHD somewhere on earth comes forward and tells me Strattera (alone) helped with their ADHD symptoms and did so without show stopping side-effects.

***** goes on to say:

"Both of these drugs [Strattera and Intuniv] pose a much lower risk of abuse or dependence than stimulants."

Study after study found strong evidence that stimulants when used to control ADHD in children, have the effect of lowering the risk of substance abuse in their teens and adult life. ADHD unmedicated or ineffectively medicated raises through the roof the risk of life-long substance abuse.

Both Strattera and Intuniv may raise the risk of abuse well over the risk of abuse from stimulants if they fail to control ADHD symptoms as effectively as stimulants.

*****'s statement is absolutely true when taken in its immediate context: Medication options parents have if their children are abusing drugs. The statement is easily misunderstood. IMHO, it could cause parents to opt for ineffective medications only to find themselves later facing the horrible problem they so diligently tried to avoid -- their teen age children abusing drugs.

Caveat 2b) This excellent, accurate, and informative, ***** article must be studied carefully.

***** accurately explains the many medication options available. If one type of stimulant fails to work, likely another type will work. We have three broad classes, Ritalin based, Adderall and Dexedrine. Adderall is not the same as Dexedrine. Adderall and Dexedrine have many properties in common but also have a few dissimuler key properties. If Ritalin fails, try Adderall, if Adderall fails, try Vyvanse (d-amphetamine). Adderall is a distinct medication from d-amphetamine.

A good doctor can see in the unique set of symptoms the medication most likely to work out of the gate. For example, I know that primarily inattentive ADD responds well to a relatively high dose of d-amphetamine. I know it because good doctors know it and I read their work.

If stimulant benefits are less than acceptable or are being outweighed by unacceptable side effects or are contraindicated by other medical problems, perhaps another med such as Wellbutrin can be used as a stimulant buffer. Why not simply discontinue stimulants altogether? We have no guarantee that any other type medication will work any better. ***** does clarify later that if the benefits from a stimulant are being outweighed by unacceptable side-effects, trying to manage the side-effects is the wisest first course of action. Perhaps a lower stimulant dose possibly with the addition of another medication will get the desired results. Thunor has had excellent results from an Adderall and Wellbutrin combination.

***** goes on to explain that a SSRI can be added to the stimulant mix to control tics and prevent stimulant exascerbation of Tourrettes. Murphy's law always rules. Tourettes and ADHD, depression/anxiety and ADHD, and bi-polar and ADHD commonly run together.

I read a study (not *****) that concluded stimulants can be safely used to manage ADHD with bi-polar. I was shocked. I thought for sure BP+ADHD suffers were permanently stuck between bi-polar the rock and ADHD the hard place. The trick is to raise the dose on the mood stabilizers. The study "caveated" the therapy did not have FDA approval. Will street level doctors use the meds off-label confident in the accuracy of the study that used hundreds in both the control group and the BP+ADHD group?

Attempting to manage the side-effects assumes some efficacy from the stimulant and the side-effects are not life threatening. 25% of all ADHD cases do not respond at all to stimulants, stimulants make many in the 25% group worse. Discontinuing the stimulant immediately is best practice in these cases.

I guess I have one other bone to pick with *****. ***** states: "Effexor and Effexor XR are newer antidepressants... The drugs are effective at improving mood and concentration in adults as well as children and teens - all true enough. ***** fails to mention the horrible Effexor withdrawals. Some people choose hooked for life feeling it a better option than dead from withdrawals. FDA quotes 9% of Effexor users experience severe withdrawals. FDA defines "severe" as causing hospitalization, permanent disability or death. I'd choose life with ADHD if Effexor was my last option. Effexor is unlikely to become last resort for ADHD suffers. Do not allow Effexor for your son.

And in your son's case, if you choose to use ADHD meds, the ADHD meds will require careful balancing with other meds he may take for his physical ailment.

I barely touched the surface of medication management complexities. I wanted you to know what you should really fear - incompetent doctors - not ADHD medications.

Again, I couldn't possibly advise a better course of action than the one you are taking. Using multiple authoritative resources to piece the puzzle together can not be topped. Two opinions are always better than one. Three opinions? better yet.

Now, I'm done for real. I simply had to share with you information I consider critical.

Oh, what about the caveat emptor? You make sure the prescribed medications you purchase are suitable for the intended purpose. Buyer beware applies full force when buying prescription meds.

Never guess what? I found an answer to the question you asked opening this thread. I almost always get to point sooner than later, later far more fequently.

Your answer is in part found in the same department:

http://www.*****.com/add-adhd/guide/adhd-treatment-overview?page=3

Here is a direct quote from the same page you'll find interesting:

"Can ADHD be treated with dietary changes or vitamins?

In the past, experts and parents of ADHD children hoped that dietary changes -- no food dye, no sugar, and no salicylates -- could cure ADHD. Some experts championed megadoses of vitamins and natural dietary supplements as a possible "cure" for ADHD. Some parents claimed that a gluten-free diet helped to cure ADHD or improve the symptoms.

There's no denying that a well-balanced diet is most important for optimal health. But scientific studies do not support the idea that dietary factors or a vitamin deficiency actually causes ADHD."


Bob

 
Old 03-16-2011, 11:26 AM   #13
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Re: 504/IEP

Bob, you always have good advice and input. The notebook you use sounds like such a simple, yet effective, tool. I think I'll introduce that idea to my son and see how it works. It makes perfect sense given the executive function issues that he struggles with. We never, ever, EVER get everything home from school that he's supposed to bring. This may help him process the idea before facing the situation.

And Hoshi I ramble on for so long it's no wonder that the info on the screening process got lost in the mix.

As far as medication goes it's such a mish mosh of information, combinations, risks and side effects we see all the time. New drugs being introduced every day to different children with complicated physiologies.

Something I find interesting is that a few of the top 20 most profitable companies are: Merck, Johnson & Johnson, Bristol-Myers Squibb and Pfizer. They have to get new product out all the time, and advertise incessantly as we know, to keep their stockholders happy. That's why some drugs come on the market and get pulled later on.

The profit motive has mixed results...I just don't want my son to be on the wrong side of that equation. If it's some new fangled concoction I think we'll wait it out a few years. The notebook, and recorder, ideas are much more appealing at the moment. We'll just have to wait and see what the doctor says when we finally get in to see her.

 
Old 03-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #14
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Re: 504/IEP

I so do agree with you, I am 35, newly diagnosed with ADD.I started Adderall in 12-2010 and it has altered everything about my life. Except, my relationship with my parents is very damaged. Too many years of the telling me I was stupid and dumb, Hours on end because I couldn't carry out simple tasks.
And guess what, BOTH my brothers and my sister are ADD.Newly diagnosed as well since I was. We have formed our own support group for each other and finally feel JUSTIFIED in being smart, and good, and treatable.
Just thought I'd share my experience, Hugs to all.Anna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoshi112 View Post
I started meds when I was 20, and boy do I wish I had been diagnosed and medicated when I was a child. It made my childhood much more unpleasant than it needed to be and caused a lot of heartache for both me and my mother.

 
Old 03-16-2011, 03:33 PM   #15
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Re: 504/IEP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolish2Karma View Post
I so do agree with you, I am 35, newly diagnosed with ADD.I started Adderall in 12-2010 and it has altered everything about my life. Except, my relationship with my parents is very damaged. Too many years of the telling me I was stupid and dumb, Hours on end because I couldn't carry out simple tasks.
And guess what, BOTH my brothers and my sister are ADD.Newly diagnosed as well since I was. We have formed our own support group for each other and finally feel JUSTIFIED in being smart, and good, and treatable.
Just thought I'd share my experience, Hugs to all.Anna
Karma,

Please drop the "Foolish" prefix. You are smart and good and have no need to be justified by anyone.

You are what you are. Smart. Who the hell cares what dumb bozos think. We are the brains around these parts.

I mean it.

You are far too good to carry that handle. How about going with Good.Real.Good.Karma? Yeah, I dig it. I'm a hippie you know. Blew my brains out with acid. Do the math. It also means I'm a geezer. But a smart geezer, let me tell you me.

Bob

 
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