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Old 06-28-2011, 12:27 AM   #1
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Question Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

There's so much fantastic information on this board and elsewhere online. Unfortunately, I'll be darned if I can locate any that's particularly specific or authoritative. Even worse, my two best friends are doctors—one a pharmacist—and even they, amazingly enough, plead ignorance on this issue. (I love my psychiatrist, but when I've asked her, she speaks only in generalities and anecdotes that seem to indicate that even she's not really sure.)

So rather than go into a narrative on my medical situation and how positively transformative dextroamphetamine has been for me over the past few years, I was wondering if anyone has answers that are either specific or authoritative (i.e., you can provide a citation or you're an expert, preferably nothing second-hand or from individual experience) or, best-case scenario, both...to the following questions:
  • Does drug tolerance/tachyphylaxis truly occur with psychotropic amphetamines/dextroamphetamine/Dexedrine/Vyvanse/Adderall/Ritalin/etc.? Is there unequivocal evidence or is this just anecdotally accepted?
  • If tolerance does occur, what would be the ideal frequency of (how often should I take) drug holidays to optimize the body's response and minimize tolerance effects over the long term?
  • What would be the ideal duration of drug holidays (of what length should they be) to optimize the body's response and minimize tolerance effects over the long term?
  • What are other known ways to reduce tolerance and/or improve efficacy of amphetamines (e.g., exercise, diet, supplements, voodoo)? How well-evidenced are they, how effective are they, and how safe are they?
The drug holiday itself, of course, has to be factored into optimization. I'm sure, for example, that taking a year-long drug holiday will produce a heck of a re-sensitization effect, but that kind of defeats the whole purpose. Obviously I'd like to minimize frequency and duration of drug holidays. In fact, what I'm wondering is, even if tolerance does occur, whether it's mild enough that drug holidays aren't really worth taking at all.

I'm new here and I really appreciate your help, guidance, and feedback. It looks like I'll be on these drugs for quite awhile, and I'd like to make the most of them. I'm more than happy to talk about related issues like dose, my apparent tolerance, etc., in private, but to the extent you're able to share some objective insight into these specific questions when responding to this post, I will be forever indebted. Thank you!

 
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:21 AM   #2
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

The reason your doctors and pharmacist are unspecific regarding the tolerance issue is that there is no established rules in this regard. Just as dosage and specific pharmacology vary wildly from person to person, so too does the likelyhood, rate and level of tolerance to amphetamines and other stimulant meds.

Tolerance is an established fact (at least as far as science establishes 'fact'), it does occur. Unfortunately, there is simply no way to know how likely you are to develop tolerance; indeed, while most people tend to become tolerant to these meds, some experience no tolerance at all, while some actually become sensitized, and need to lower their dose over time. I suspect that someday, we'll actually understand the science of tolerance, but at present, we don't even understand the precise mechanism of action of amphetamine, so it's impossible to make predictions.

Because it's impossible to tell ahead of time the likelyhood of tolerance, it's impossible to set down any hard and fast rules regarding 'holidays.' My shrink advises against them entirely, but I've seen many people swear by them. I know it's not the answer you're seeking, but no one is going to be able to answer a question that depends so heavily on your own particular brain chemistry. Just as with establishment of the ideal medication and dose for treatment of ADHD, tolerance avoidance holidays are going to be straight up trial and error.

As to improving efficacy, it's known that taking amphetamines with acidic food or drink reduces the effect. I suspect, though can't claim to truly know, that non-acidic foods that produce a net acidic response by the body (most meats and grains) will likewise reduce efficacy. Beyond that, clean living has been shown in many studies to reduce the severity of ADHD symptoms, specifically, eating a proper diet, low in refined sugars, saturated fats and chemical additives, getting sufficient sleep, drinking alcohol in strict moderation and getting enough exercise (sounds like fun, I know). ADHD sufferers also tend to do better in structured environments, so following an established routine as closely as possible will help.

Any other drugs or strategies will be anecdotally based. You will find in many places people claiming scientific evidence for one remedy or another, but those people are generally trying to sell you something, and their 'science' is questionable at best. It's best to do your own research in those regards, giving weight only to those scientific studies that are published in peer-reviewed journals, in my experience, those that are not are aware that their 'science' won't stand up to scrutiny.

As far as additives that make sense to me, apart from those that would fall under the 'clean living' heading (vitamins, omega-3s), you may consider supplementing L-Tyrosine, as it is a precursor to L-Dopa, which is a precursor to dopamine, which is a precursor to norepinephrine. Taking more L-Tyrosine will not necessarily result in production of more dopamine and norepinephrine, as there are several rate-limiting processes at play, but I suspect being deficient in L-Tyrosine may well lead to lowered levels of those all important neurotransmitters.

So, probably both more and less than you were asking for, I hope it wasn't too overbearing, and I hope it helps. Best of luck.

 
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:56 PM   #3
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Thumbs up Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Very helpful actually, and very much appreciated. Your points make perfect sense and seem to encapsulate well the variability of information I find elsewhere. If ambiguity happens to be the best answer science has for us at present, that's the answer I'm looking for. The specific ideas (acidic foods, L-Tyrosine) are great leads I will investigate further. Thank you!!

 
Old 07-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #4
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

The last poster covered everything really well. I wanted to chime in on the holiday issue. I take adderall twice a day and do find it effective for work and projects. It keeps me focused and on task. However, i don't take my meds on the weekends, those are my holidays. I would say that is the best way to do it. When you're free on the weekends and you don't need to combat the effects of your ADD/ADHD you can just be yourself. That has always been my mentality.

 
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:47 PM   #5
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

SmallTownDreamr,

May I add to my trusted friend, "Thurnor's," reply.

Thunor's reply:

The reason your doctors and pharmacist are unspecific regarding the tolerance issue is that there is no established rules in this regard. Just as dosage and specific pharmacology vary wildly from person to person, so too does the likelyhood, rate and level of tolerance to amphetamines and other stimulant meds.

My experience: I've developed a tolerance to how Adderall makes me feel. It no longer makes me feel good or bad. On the other hand, Adderall continues to control my ADHD symptoms better than ever.

Thunor: While most people tend to become tolerant to these meds, some experience no tolerance at all, while some actually become sensitized, and need to lower their dose over time. I suspect that someday, we'll actually understand the science of tolerance, but at present, we don't even understand the precise mechanism of action of amphetamine, so it's impossible to make predictions.

Thunor: Because it's impossible to tell ahead of time the likelyhood of tolerance, it's impossible to set down any hard and fast rules regarding 'holidays.' My shrink advises against them entirely, but I've seen many people swear by them.

My experience:

A) I have on numerous occasion taken "accidental" holidays. I run out to work without my meds, function just fine, and discover I hadn't taken my meds back home when my wife yells at me, "you didn't take your meds."

B) On other occasions, I run off without my meds, do a high speed 180, screech into the driveway, yell, "woman, where's my freaking speed?" She yells back, "right where it always is."

What's the diff between A) & B)? Brain load. We can talk about "load" later.

Thunor: As to improving efficacy, it's known that taking amphetamines with acidic food or drink reduces the effect.

Me: Maybe, maybe not.

Thunor: I suspect, though can't claim to truly know, that non-acidic foods that produce a net acidic response by the body (most meats and grains) will likewise reduce efficacy.

Me: Above parsed" "Maybe, maybe not.

Thurnor: Beyond that, clean living has been shown in many studies to reduce the severity of ADHD symptoms, specifically, eating a proper diet, low in refined sugars, saturated fats and chemical additives, getting sufficient sleep, drinking alcohol in strict moderation and getting enough exercise (sounds like fun, I know).

Me: Absolutely, positively, beyond all doubt - reasonable and otherwise, FACT.

ADHD sufferers also tend to do better in structured environments, so following an established routine as closely as possible will help.

Me: I do much better as long as I am the architect of my structured environment. "Established routine" is a relative thing. Each day my business pops the unexpected in my face. I thrive on it.
Recently (June 1) I hired a "nuts & bolts" manager. Corporate types title him "General Manager." I swear "Bill" (real name) is as freaking ADHD as me. I can't work with the guy. So I don't. "Bill, take care of this 'stuff,' bye." At day's end, "stuff" is done - perfectly.

The diff between Bill and Bob (me). Bill comes into my office while I'm on the blower with a customer trying to intimadate me. The cus claimed I billed for services never rendered. I told cus, "Bill will inspect the work first thing in the AM. If legit, we'll fix it. Otherwise, I putting a contractors lean on your property." Bill sees I'm unaffected, asks me, "how do you do it?" I replied, "it's fun." Phone rings. It's cus. "Check is in the mail." Blah, blah, blah, happy ending - this day, this time. More often than not, no happy ending. Still fun.

Bill, needs to be told, "what to do" NOT "how to do it." I'm the same. Bill has trouble dealing with people on a emotional level. I get it off on it. Both of us are as ADHD as can be.

Thunor: Any other drugs or strategies will be anecdotally based. You will find in many places people claiming scientific evidence for one remedy or another, but those people are generally trying to sell you something, and their 'science' is questionable at best.

Me: Their 'science' is BS at best.

Thunor: "As far as additives that make sense to me, apart from those that would fall under the 'clean living' heading (vitamins, omega-3s), you may consider supplementing L-Tyrosine, as it is a precursor to L-Dopa, which is a precursor to dopamine, which is a precursor to norepinephrine. Taking more L-Tyrosine will not necessarily result in production of more dopamine and norepinephrine, as there are several rate-limiting processes at play, but I suspect being deficient in L-Tyrosine may well lead to lowered levels of those all important neurotransmitters."

Me: Absolute FACT.

 
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:54 PM   #6
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

SmallTownDreamr,

May I add to my trusted friend, "Thurnor's," reply.

Thunor's reply:

The reason your doctors and pharmacist are unspecific regarding the tolerance issue is that there is no established rules in this regard. Just as dosage and specific pharmacology vary wildly from person to person, so too does the likelyhood, rate and level of tolerance to amphetamines and other stimulant meds.

My experience: I've developed a tolerance to how Adderall makes me feel. It no longer makes me feel good or bad. On the other hand, Adderall continues to control my ADHD symptoms better than ever.

Thunor: While most people tend to become tolerant to these meds, some experience no tolerance at all, while some actually become sensitized, and need to lower their dose over time. I suspect that someday, we'll actually understand the science of tolerance, but at present, we don't even understand the precise mechanism of action of amphetamine, so it's impossible to make predictions.

Thunor: Because it's impossible to tell ahead of time the likelyhood of tolerance, it's impossible to set down any hard and fast rules regarding 'holidays.' My shrink advises against them entirely, but I've seen many people swear by them.


My experience:

A) I have on numerous occasion taken "accidental" holidays. I run out to work without my meds, function just fine, and discover I hadn't taken my meds back home when my wife yells at me, "you didn't take your meds."

B) On other occasions, I run off without my meds, do a high speed 180, screech into the driveway, yell, "woman, where's my freaking speed?" She yells back, "right where it always is."

What's the diff between A) & B)? Brain load. We can talk about "load" later.

Thunor: As to improving efficacy, it's known that taking amphetamines with acidic food or drink reduces the effect.

Me: Maybe, maybe not.

Thunor: I suspect, though can't claim to truly know, that non-acidic foods that produce a net acidic response by the body (most meats and grains) will likewise reduce efficacy.

Me: Above parsed" "Maybe, maybe not.

Thurnor: Beyond that, clean living has been shown in many studies to reduce the severity of ADHD symptoms, specifically, eating a proper diet, low in refined sugars, saturated fats and chemical additives, getting sufficient sleep, drinking alcohol in strict moderation and getting enough exercise (sounds like fun, I know).

Me: Absolutely, positively, beyond all doubt - reasonable and otherwise, FACT.

ADHD sufferers also tend to do better in structured environments, so following an established routine as closely as possible will help.

Me: I do much better as long as I am the architect of my structured environment. "Established routine" is a relative thing. Each day my business pops the unexpected in my face. I thrive on it.
Recently (June 1) I hired a "nuts & bolts" manager. Corporate types title him "General Manager." I swear "Bill" (real name) is as freaking ADHD as me. I can't work with the guy. So I don't. "Bill, take care of this 'stuff,' bye." At day's end, "stuff" is done - perfectly.

The diff between Bill and Bob (me). Bill comes into my office while I'm on the blower with a customer trying to intimadate me. The cus claimed I billed for services never rendered. I told cus, "Bill will inspect the work first thing in the AM. If legit, we'll fix it. Otherwise, I putting a contractors lean on your property." Bill sees I'm unaffected, asks me, "how do you do it?" I replied, "it's fun." Phone rings. It's cus. "Check is in the mail." Blah, blah, blah, happy ending - this day, this time. More often than not, no happy ending. Still fun.

Bill, needs to be told, "what to do" NOT "how to do it." I'm the same. Bill has trouble dealing with people on a emotional level. I get it off on it. Both of us are as ADHD as can be.

Thunor: Any other drugs or strategies will be anecdotally based. You will find in many places people claiming scientific evidence for one remedy or another, but those people are generally trying to sell you something, and their 'science' is questionable at best.

Me: Their 'science' is BS at best.

Thunor: "As far as additives that make sense to me, apart from those that would fall under the 'clean living' heading (vitamins, omega-3s), you may consider supplementing L-Tyrosine, as it is a precursor to L-Dopa, which is a precursor to dopamine, which is a precursor to norepinephrine. Taking more L-Tyrosine will not necessarily result in production of more dopamine and norepinephrine, as there are several rate-limiting processes at play, but I suspect being deficient in L-Tyrosine may well lead to lowered levels of those all important neurotransmitters."

Me: Absolute FACT.

Bob

 
Old 07-10-2011, 09:49 PM   #7
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

SmallTownDreamr,

Sorry about the double post. Musta hit the post key my mistake.

I want to give you additional info that may help you. ADHD can be a beast that is difficult to control.

I am going to be painfully blunt with you. Please understand my intentions are to help. And I fully appreciate it is your responsibility to either accept of reject what I have to say. The following is based on my unique experience.

You said you "love my psychiatrist, but when I've asked her, she speaks only in generalities and anecdotes that seem to indicate that even she's not really sure."

Dude, I am a guy. Hot babes mesmerize me too. Let's get real. You may love your shrink, but your shrink sucks at shrinking. If my shrink ever spoke in generalities and anecdotes, I'd ask up front, "Dude, (or "Girl") why the hell should I pay you 5 bucks/hour? -- slang for either $500/hr or $5,000/hr depending on context.

No one gets that kind of money out of me that "ain't sure."

Your shrink evidentaly does NOT understand the many variables that influence ADHD symptoms, thus must speak in "generalities and anecdotes."

A competent, highly qualified, doctor of psychiatry will work with you to progressively narrow down the diagnostic cross hairs. Eventualy the doctor has the cross hairs on the parasitic beast's heart. Bam. Beast is dead. Its host is freed. The host is your freaking brain.

Why the hell do you have to come to this board to get "specific or authoritative" info? Kinda, sorta, seems to me, your freaking hot shrink, should be kinda, sorta, your specific AND authoritative source of medical counsel.

Indeed, you should be and very much need to be on this board. Thunor, me and everyone else understands what you are going through.

For example, I've been accused of being irresponsible, inconsiderate, funny lots of times, obnoxious other times, tactless, brillant one day, an AH the next, and per Dr. Hallowell "in the Penthouse today, the Outhouse tommorow."

Wanna know what? Everything I've been accused of is TRUE. No one other than those on this board can understand that I have tried my damnest NOT be what I am - that is - was.

Voodoo, religion, convictions or lack thereof are or no value when dealing with a medical problem.
We need a freaking doctor, not a priest.

Do not get wrong, I am a "religious" person. I am convinced we are the product of intelligent design. Cool. For whatever reason, my brain is out of "specs." The solution is someone that can bring my head back into specs. Such specialists are called doctors of psychiatry.

The problem: Psychiatry as a science is in its early stages of infancy. Freud was JO. So were most of the bozos that followed up to about 1980. The science of psychiatry is now making quantum leaps as we speak. I'm blown away by many of the recent break through studies shedding light on the biology of ADHD and other mental disorders. One such study implicated for the first tiem some of the ADHD genetic markers. That study was published in Sept. 2010.

Sept. 2010 is less than ONE year ago. My shrink knows about that study's results. Does yours? My shrink is on an ADHD genetic research at another university. Is yours?

Is my shrink infallible? Hell no. Good thing. He recognizes the complexities of mental illness and his own limitations, and unique patient needs.

Does he dogmatically prescribe "holidays?" NO. Depends on the patient.

Does he dogmatically set an upper limit to stimulant meds? NO. Depends on the patient.

My pdoc revealed something to me that may be of value to you. He may prescribe a high stimulant dose to "jump start" a stalled ADHD brain. Shortly thereafter, he reduces the dose to where the patient must stuggle to control their ADHD symptoms.

We MUST learn how to control our ADHD symptoms. As is true with weight training, "no pain, no gain."

Fire your hot shrink and find a babe that is a doctor of psychiatry. Get help to learn how to manage your ADHD symptoms. Stimulants temporarily pull the biology into specs. Stimutlants SUCK as teachers. ADHD coaches SUCK at ADHD biology but RULE as teachers.

Get one - an ADHD coach. Speed + ADHD coaching + time = dead ADHD beast, freed brain. Let's translate: A much happier, more productive life, with more good days, weeks and years on the balance sheet than those that painfully suck.

Yes, suck days, weeks, and periods continue to be a part of life. No one gets away suckless.

I love having my fair share of suckless life. Damn ADHD can and often does deprive many of their fair share.

Bob

 
Old 07-11-2011, 02:08 PM   #8
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

I kind of skimmed through the posts on this thread, but they're all kind of long and I have a crawling 10 month old who's really fast and distracting! So if I repeat someone, sorry!

I have taken adderall for well over a decade now.... come to think of it, I've been on it a decade and a half, I think. Anyway, I have a lot of experience with it. Tolerance has never been an issue for me. In fact, I have to lower my dose after a time, because.... well, I'm not really sure why, but that's what happens.

So tolerance isn't inevitable. I've never worried about taking "holidays" from adderall, I've always taken it twice a day, 7 days a week. I only quit (cold turkey, with no withdrawl or side effects) for pregnancies and nursing (total about a year and a half with each kid, and I have four kids) and then got right back on it with no problems.

Does that help answer your original question at all?

 
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:55 PM   #9
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Thumbs up Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Fascinating information...thank you all for your perspectives!

I've heard of others (especially parents with ADHD children) doing a "weekends-off" approach like yours, thisguy86. Unfortunately, I'm on a very high dose of dextroamphetamine and the chasm between being on and being off is staggering. I actually did end up doing a 3-day-long drug holiday soon after my original post here...and I basically slept most of those 3 days. I'm guessing that the amount of energy I get from the dextroamphetamine is so much that going off for a few days is like an old car at a sudden stop: You suddenly take your foot off the pedal and the engine stalls!

Bob/addprogrammer, thanks for confirming some of Thunor's specific recommendations and for the entertaining reality check with regard to my psychiatrist! Alas, I would get the best psychiatrist money could buy if I weren't on a budget and my psychiatrist wasn't covered by my insurance. Unfortunately, I had two terrible experiences with other psychiatrists prior to my current one (who, by the way, is as far from "babe"-hood as possible...I only love her in the most respectable sense ) and after all the success I've had with her over several years (especially the past few with the dextroamphetamine), I'm extremely hesitant to change an otherwise satisfactory formula and risk another bad experience. But it's certainly an option, and one I may yet try.

Your apparent drug sensitization, marisuela, is intriguing and just more evidence of how seemingly unique everyone is with regard to tolerance. I *wish* I was able to quit cold turkey without any side effects! Alas, my entire life becomes a side effect when I go off the meds.

I feel obliged to self-disclose that I actually don't suffer from ADHD. (I didn't want to complicate my original post with tangential information that might lead off-topic.) Along with a maximum dose of the antidepressant bupropion, I'm taking just under the maximum dose of dextroamphetamine (half in the form of the extended-release pro-drug Vyvanse and the other half as plain dextroamphetamine/Dexedrine) for dysthymia (relatively mild but very chronic depression) as well as, to a lesser extent, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. My psychiatrist decided to try it out after trying numerous SSRIs all to the same effect: I was less emotionally depressed, but I was still physically depressed and lethargic—I slept a lot and would frequently stay in bed from lack of energy. Since going on the dextroamphetamine, my life has done a 180, and I'm now in the best physical and mental health of my life (though still far from what I'm working toward). Unfortunately I seem to have developed a tolerance to the dextroamphetamine and am starting to slip back into dysthymia. I'm at the maximum dose and my psychiatrist refuses to increase above the maximum (my insurance wouldn't cover a super-maximum dose either), which is probably the right call on her part given the experimental nature of using this drug for dysthymic disorder and its potential for problems at too high a dose. I'm looking for ways to reverse my tolerance and boost myself back up to 100% so I can continue to improve my physical health and life situation to a point of eventually being able to get off drugs altogether. (I may have to be on drugs the rest of my life, but my goal is to get to a state where I can at least try reducing or eliminating them. I'm about 70% there.)

I posted to this board because my savior happens to be an ADHD drug, and nobody on the "depression" boards has much experience with what I'm taking or experiencing. I also have a niece who is ADHD and taking Adderall, and your ADHD-specific suggestions about clean living and such are ones I can relay to her as well. Interestingly, some of them still hold true for dysthymia albeit for different reasons. For example, Bob mentions how structure helps coping with ADHD. Structure also helps tremendously with dysthymia though in a very different way!

Again, thank you for your extremely helpful input. I've already started employing some of it (like the L-Tyrosine and avoidance of acidic foods) and I have started to notice a bit of improvement though not yet back to the 100% I was at.

 
Old 07-15-2011, 10:28 AM   #10
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Your latest info changes everything. To the best of my knowledge, everyone develops tolerance to dex and every other stimulate used to treat depression. It is why stimulants are used last resort for depression.

You have no choice. You must take a break. Good news - our CNS adjusts quickly. Take a week off. Talk to your <babehood shrink about rebooting on a lower dose.

In a few days you will go into max-a-thymia - depressed as hell - unable to function. Plan the break accordingly. And take heart - just a few days more - and your misery will be over. You may need to spend a week in hell every six months.

No one said it's fun being nuts. It sucks big time.

Bob

 
Old 07-15-2011, 10:32 AM   #11
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Have you tried adderall or just the dextroamphetamine? If so what are the major differences in the way it makes you feel and helps you? I know that adderall is a mix of four amphetamine salts, and dex is one of them. I have heard that the dex alone can be more effective. Do you know anything about this?

 
Old 07-15-2011, 01:10 PM   #12
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Ah!!! Now I feel like a moron for not mentioning that up front, assuming that it works the same way regardless of what you take it for. Lesson learned.

That makes sense, Bob. I remember learning about the whole upregulation and downregulation phenomenon awhile back with regard to how sugar can affect neurotransmitters (which also is a major challenge for me) so it makes sense that this would be no less true of stimulants. Indeed, going off the dextroamphetamine for a week will be hell (just the few days at a time I've done keeps me in bed most of the time), but if it results in months of better functioning, it'll be worth it.

I've actually never taken Adderall, thisguy86, though my niece is taking it. After the SSRIs weren't getting me out of my funk, my babe—er, psychiatrist tried the dextro and, when that started helping, kept upping the dose, replacing half of it with the Vyvanse/lisdexamphetamine which is just a "forced" extended-release version of dextroamphetamine that I really like (and it's less risk of abuse which gives her more confidence). So, from what I've read elsewhere, I'm already on the strongest stimulant, since the other components of Adderall, as I understand it, aren't quite as strong as the dextroamphetamine (though they apparently work on different time scales too for a smoothing effect).

There's no question that, even with the tolerance effects, it's been a great benefit to me. I'm still so much more highly functioning now than before the dextro that I'm essentially a new person. SmallTownDreamr 2.0, if you will...

 
Old 07-15-2011, 07:37 PM   #13
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownDreamr View Post
After the SSRIs weren't getting me out of my funk, my babe—er, psychiatrist tried the dextro\
hehehehehehe - damn, you are freaking more nuts than me. We should have a contest - who is the freaking craziest lunatic on this board.

Hehehehehehehe

 
Old 07-15-2011, 07:57 PM   #14
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SmallTownDreamr HB User
Cool Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post
hehehehehehe - damn, you are freaking more nuts than me. We should have a contest - who is the freaking craziest lunatic on this board.

Hehehehehehehe
I could give you a run for your money! Though after reading your dump-the-sexy-psych post, I'm pretty sure you'd win.

 
Old 07-16-2011, 08:11 AM   #15
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Re: Ideal drug holiday frequency/duration?

SmallTownDreamr,

I'll take the cake - I am more nuts than you. I let you in on a little secret. Humor is a powerful antidepressant. Mental illness whether it be depression, ADHD, anxiety disorders, or the more devastating forms such as bipolor, autism, schizophrenia and the slew of disorders associated with psychosis PAINFULLY SUCK.

I have a couple of friends that WERE crazier than me. One has been diagnosed with bipolor with psychotic features. The girl burned her house down. Her mind saw the fire she started as a portal into another dimension. Whacked? You betcha. She had the hospital staff call me. Why call me? I guess she sensed I'm whacked too.

The other friend suffered with depression for years. His depression was similar to your dysthymia in its persistence over many years. None of the antidepressants including the older tricyclics and even older MAOIs helped. I should note that the "older" antidepressants often work when SSRI's fail. Their nasty, potentially life threatening side-effects drove researchers to find safer antidepressants. They are, however, not more effective.

My second friend finally got his brain zapped. Gads. No one is going to zap dead my brain cells. Hell no. Hell yes. My buddy's life has been transformed from the zap jobs. Cuz why? The "juice" burns out the buggy circuits. Our brains have multiple backups for every function. The good circuits take over. I'd never believe it if I hadn't seen it. My buddy is a new person. He ain't depressed no more. He can fully function now as if he had never had a freaked up brain.

Using speed as an antidepressant is problematic. Ask your intelligent babe-er shrink about your options. You need not ask about "zap jobs" at this point. Some shrinks aren't shrinks no more. They are doctors of psychiatry - specialist MD's. Your "babe" actually sounds to me like a psychiatrist.

Cyber-analysis and recommendations are dangerous business. I really am a totally, woefully, incompetent source of medical advice. If you listen to my medication recommendations you will end up dead.

Talk to your babe. Try to find a better solution than speed. I don't know what it is, I do believe a better solution exists. The shrinks that have moved up the ladder to medical doctors of psychiatry is the rock my belief rests on.

Bob

 
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