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Old 09-28-2011, 02:49 AM   #1
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Unhappy Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

My son was diagnosed with ADHD nearly 2 years ago, at age 5. It was no surprise. He was an extremely fussy baby, intolerant to noise and light, he was an uncontrollable toddler, and many classic symptoms of ADHD had presented themselves long before formal diagnosis. The doctor was very thorough in his diagnosis, so I have no doubt of it. He was prescribed Strattera, and there was an immediate improvement of many of his symptoms. He seemed a different child. He quit getting in trouble at school. He was able to sit through dinner, pay attention to bedtime stories, etc. However, even though I fed him a good breakfast before giving him his med each morning, he began to throw up on the bus nearly every morning. Then I would have to pick him up from school, and he would miss. I decided to take him off the Strattera because of the vomiting. He immediately became despondant at school. He would not do anything. So I took him out of school and have been homeschooling him for the past year. He is unable (not just unwilling, just flat unable) to read a sentence or write a single thing if I am not with him prodding him and giving him all of my attention. (I have 3 other children, whom I also homeschool, who do not have ADHD or any behavioral symptoms).
So....here is my dilemna: I am patient and willing to help him work through his inability to focus without the help of medication. I am willing to homeschool him and give him all the attention he needs. I don't want to make him suffer awful side effects in order to make him "easier to deal with." But at the same time, he displays other behavior that I don't know whether is related or not to ADHD. He is a compulsive liar, he is manipulative, constantly coaxing his little sisters to break household rules. He makes repetitive noises, he finds joy in aggravating anyone he can. He is never violent. He does throw tantrums, but they are like 2-yr-old tantrums, throwing himself down, etc. He tries to cause others to pity him and think he is abused--like if we are at the grocery store, and he is wandering off, and I GENTLY touch him on one arm to corral him back toward us, he will THROW himself to the floor, yell "OWW", and pretend to cry. I am consistent in discipline, and discipline-wise I treat him no different from the girls, but nothing works. Just tonight he was trying to bribe his little sister to throw her shoe at the new big screen TV. I feel helpless and at the end of my rope. I can't figure out why he does the things he does. I remember wistfully the sweet little attentive boy I had for a few months when he was on Strattera, and I wonder if maybe it wouldn't be worth letting him suffer motion sickness if it would make him less "evil." I feel like either he needs meds to make him better or I need meds for the depression this is causing me!

 
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:08 PM   #2
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

i have ADD and take stimulants meds. I find that if i eat cereal, eggs or "light" breakfast i feel sick. But if i eat oatmeal or an apple I feel just fine. the 'light" breakfast makes me feel as if i am getting more of my meds too quickly. I would recommend taking him to see psychologist who can help develop behavior plan (aka Daily Report Card) with you and his teacher(s). they can also guide you to professional who can more closely monitor his meds then a pediatrician has time to do. furthermore, with well designed behavior modification plan you may be able to get the same "good" behavior with low medication dose as you would with a high med dose and no behavior modification.
good luck

 
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:24 PM   #3
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Being emotionally immature, as your son clearly is, IS an ADHD symptom. The toddler tantrums in a child old enough to know better, the lying, these are classic ADHD traits.

Maybe his stomach will tolerate the Strattera better now. Maybe just not being on a bus right after breakfast will be enough to keep his stomach under control. Or maybe he'll do better on a stimulant such as Ritalin.

I firmly believe that the time to treat ADHD is when the child is suffering, and it sounds to me like your son is suffering. He's old enough and self-aware enough to know that he's not measuring up, and it has to be upsetting to him.

I remember at that age, I was in public school. I wound up in trouble almost every day, and most of the time I had no idea why! If someone had offered me a pill that would help me behave and make my parents happy, I would have jumped all over it. Even if it did hurt my stomach.

 
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:41 AM   #4
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeygm View Post
i have ADD and take stimulants meds. I find that if i eat cereal, eggs or "light" breakfast i feel sick. But if i eat oatmeal or an apple I feel just fine. the 'light" breakfast makes me feel as if i am getting more of my meds too quickly. I would recommend taking him to see psychologist who can help develop behavior plan (aka Daily Report Card) with you and his teacher(s). they can also guide you to professional who can more closely monitor his meds then a pediatrician has time to do. furthermore, with well designed behavior modification plan you may be able to get the same "good" behavior with low medication dose as you would with a high med dose and no behavior modification.
good luck
after reviewing my ealier post i just want to say i am sorry if the above post was insensitive/detached at end. I truly can empathize on not feeling well from medication. Also, with ADD i tend to usually ramble so i always try to correct by being to succint but then lose the sensitivity and sincerity.
i was not diagnosed until my late 20s. i think it went unnoticed at school b/c i was quiet (i'm predom inattentive type) but my mind was always anywhere but where it needed to be. my mom and i fought for yrs when doing homework. i can recall many days studing for spelling words while sitting upside down in my chair. my mom & i would end up fighting more then studying. my lack of focus lead to being B's-C's student.
fast forward, i went to college at 25 i learned about ADD and saw dr. and was diagnosed. tried various meds till found med/dose that worked.
i ended up with top honors in my department, valedictorian, and taking state honors as well.
please don't be hard on yourself. it is clear that you are doing whatever you can to help him be happy and successful. my mom says that if she only knew then... it is not her fault and i feel that she did everything in her power to help me much like you do with your son. and i am sure if he doesn't see it now he will one day.
i am not in anyway recommending meds. but i wouldn't feel bad if i were you. you have tried many alternatives and if meds helped but made him sick maybe your dr can recommend another med or expert in ADHD. it took me a lil while to figure out what worked. i wish you all the best. and will keep you in my prayers.

 
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:20 AM   #5
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickeygm View Post
i have ADD and take stimulants meds. I find that if i eat cereal, eggs or "light" breakfast i feel sick. But if i eat oatmeal or an apple I feel just fine. the 'light" breakfast makes me feel as if i am getting more of my meds too quickly. I would recommend taking him to see psychologist who can help develop behavior plan (aka Daily Report Card) with you and his teacher(s). they can also guide you to professional who can more closely monitor his meds then a pediatrician has time to do. furthermore, with well designed behavior modification plan you may be able to get the same "good" behavior with low medication dose as you would with a high med dose and no behavior modification.
good luck
You cant give an ADHD child brain stimulants, it does NOT work. Ritalin is what i would say to use (perscribed by a doctor of course)

 
Old 10-01-2011, 03:25 AM   #6
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janddplus4 View Post
My son was diagnosed with ADHD nearly 2 years ago, at age 5. It was no surprise. He was an extremely fussy baby, intolerant to noise and light, he was an uncontrollable toddler, and many classic symptoms of ADHD had presented themselves long before formal diagnosis. The doctor was very thorough in his diagnosis, so I have no doubt of it. He was prescribed Strattera, and there was an immediate improvement of many of his symptoms. He seemed a different child. He quit getting in trouble at school. He was able to sit through dinner, pay attention to bedtime stories, etc. However, even though I fed him a good breakfast before giving him his med each morning, he began to throw up on the bus nearly every morning. Then I would have to pick him up from school, and he would miss. I decided to take him off the Strattera because of the vomiting. He immediately became despondant at school. He would not do anything. So I took him out of school and have been homeschooling him for the past year. He is unable (not just unwilling, just flat unable) to read a sentence or write a single thing if I am not with him prodding him and giving him all of my attention. (I have 3 other children, whom I also homeschool, who do not have ADHD or any behavioral symptoms).
So....here is my dilemna: I am patient and willing to help him work through his inability to focus without the help of medication. I am willing to homeschool him and give him all the attention he needs. I don't want to make him suffer awful side effects in order to make him "easier to deal with." But at the same time, he displays other behavior that I don't know whether is related or not to ADHD. He is a compulsive liar, he is manipulative, constantly coaxing his little sisters to break household rules. He makes repetitive noises, he finds joy in aggravating anyone he can. He is never violent. He does throw tantrums, but they are like 2-yr-old tantrums, throwing himself down, etc. He tries to cause others to pity him and think he is abused--like if we are at the grocery store, and he is wandering off, and I GENTLY touch him on one arm to corral him back toward us, he will THROW himself to the floor, yell "OWW", and pretend to cry. I am consistent in discipline, and discipline-wise I treat him no different from the girls, but nothing works. Just tonight he was trying to bribe his little sister to throw her shoe at the new big screen TV. I feel helpless and at the end of my rope. I can't figure out why he does the things he does. I remember wistfully the sweet little attentive boy I had for a few months when he was on Strattera, and I wonder if maybe it wouldn't be worth letting him suffer motion sickness if it would make him less "evil." I feel like either he needs meds to make him better or I need meds for the depression this is causing me!
For the behaviour in the store: do what my family did. Quell it immediatly. Like a member of my family said when i misbehaved in such a manner "stop that amd get up before i give you something to REALLY cry about". And that worked just fine.

Last edited by De1h; 10-01-2011 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Dont actually carry through with the threat unless child continues misbehaviour

 
Old 10-01-2011, 08:05 AM   #7
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by De1h View Post
You cant give an ADHD child brain stimulants, it does NOT work. Ritalin is what i would say to use (perscribed by a doctor of course)
Actually, Ritalin is a stimulant. It doesn't work for every child with ADHD, and some have unpleasant side effects, but it does help many children (and adults).

 
Old 10-01-2011, 10:18 AM   #8
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by De1h View Post
You cant give an ADHD child brain stimulants, it does NOT work. Ritalin is what i would say to use (perscribed by a doctor of course)
de1h
ritalin is a psychostimulant. here is a informative link: http://www.adhd.com.au/Medication.htm

 
Old 10-01-2011, 01:15 PM   #9
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janddplus4 View Post
I remember wistfully the sweet little attentive boy I had for a few months when he was on Strattera, and I wonder if maybe it wouldn't be worth letting him suffer motion sickness if it would make him less "evil." I feel like either he needs meds to make him better or I need meds for the depression this is causing me!
janddplus4,

Have you talked to your doctor about the side-effects your son experiences on Strattera?

You do have a few options:

You tried "no med" and now know for a certainty that "no med" is not a viable option. Be glad you tried no-med as that was/is the only way you could determine the outcome.

Putting your son back on Strattera suffering motion sickness is NOT an option.

Talk to your doctor about managing Strattera's motion sickness side-effect. Adding a motion sickness medication or another medication off-label may give you son Strattera's benefits WITHOUT the side-effect. Give it a trial just as you gave "no med" a trial.

Managing side-effects is the course doctors pursue when a patient absolutely needs a medication that has intolerable side-effects.

I doubt if any other ADHD medication (other than Strattera) will help your son's ADHD. Strattera is a unique med. No other med can be substituted. Strattera does not work well for the majority of ADHD patients. When Strattera does work it works miracles as you experienced.

The ADHD cluster of symptoms has many causes. The "trick" is to discover the med that acts on the cause.

I recently read the phrase "Allergy Based ADHD." Allergy Based ADHD is resolved by eliminating the allergen, not by using an ADHD medication.

I'll add another ADHD type. "Toxic Poisoning Based ADHD." I met a man that builds racing engines. The guy has got at least 500K invested in machines in his shop. He actually has a MRI to detect cracks and metal fatigue in critical engine components. He also had a tank full of solvents in his shop to clean engine parts covered with heat set carbon shellac. That shellac does NOT clean off with any other method. About five years back, the shop owner developed ADHD like symptoms with Parkinson features. He absorbed the solvents through his skin and air for years. The shop owner related how many doctors he saw before one asked about his work environment. He was dxed and treated for lymn disease, lupus, early onset dementia, and Parkinson disease all to no avail.

Finally a neurologist diagnosed him with severe (nearly fatal) carbon tetrachloride poisoning. Doctors detoxed his system. The mechanic moved the solvent tank into a separate building with large exhaust fans. The guy does NOT enter the solvent building without his "space suit" and gas mask on.

No one walks away unscathed from poisoning that serious. He is on a med to control Parkinson's symptoms that persist. Yet, he is alive and functions well.

"Toxic Poisoning Based ADHD" can be caused by solvents, pesticides, heavy metals such as lead, and the zillion other neuron-toxic chemicals that get in our bodies with the air we breath and the food we eat.

The unborn are subjected to an estimated 250 toxic chemicals from their mother's body. "Toxic Poisoning Based ADHD" can present symptoms as early an age as genetic ADHD.

Especially if you have no family history of ADHD, try an "all natural" diet with absolutely NO chemical additives. Add a liver cleanser such as milk thistle along with the usual fish oil omega 3. You may not get any noticeable improvement in your son's symptoms any time soon. The diet will strengthen his overall health and perhaps by the time he becomes an adult, his ADHD symptoms will be resolved.

Genetic ADHD is more than likely the cause of your son's symptoms, not toxic poisons. Cover all the bases with an ADHD friendly diet. It can do no harm. It will help his symptoms if only minimally. But maybe? If the diet attacks the cause, the diet will be your next miracle worker - absolutely side-effect free.

Bob

 
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:52 AM   #10
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

janddplus4,

ADHD medications cannot "teach." They cannot teach good behavior or good life skills such as decision making, planning, organization --- those skills that every adult needs to survive in the adult world. Nor can those meds teach subjects and skills learned through education, study, and practice. The meds cannot teach the good reading skills that enable us to learn and comprehend nearly every thing we need to know or want to know about.

I doubt if your son can control his behavior. I'm certain that he truly wants to follow your training and example and positively certain that he tries very hard. Your quote is my rock solid basis for believing.

You said: "I remember wistfully the sweet little attentive boy I had for a few months when he was on Strattera, and I wonder if maybe it wouldn't be worth letting him suffer motion sickness if it would make him less "evil."

Strattera did not teach your boy to be "sweet." "Sweet" obviously means his conduct was NOT evil. His behavior was in line with your parenting teaching, training and example. You taught your boy to be "sweet" not Strattera.

Strattera did not make him less "evil." Your boy has never been evil in motive or desire. Not on Strattera nor now off Strattera. What does Strattera do? It enables to near fully functional capacity, poorly functioning information processing control centers in his brain.

To the degree we can control our thinking is the degree we can control our behavior to the standards we've been taught and developed.

Your son has proven to you that his behavior is what you expect when given control of his mental faculties. Strattera gave him the capacity to control himself in harmony with the standards you have been teaching him. He also proved that you are a good parent. If your boy wasn't trained to behave appropriately, he would have been more "evil" on Strattera. He would have been a better liar, better trouble maker and generally all around better at being "EVIL." Strattera can not teach good conduct and behavior. Nor can it teach "evil."

"I feel like either (A) he needs meds to make him better or (B) I need meds for the depression this is causing me!" Go with plan A. Plan B sucks.

Since I've been on ADHD meds, I have become an exponentially better decision maker, planner, organizer, business man, communicator, (incidentally the ability to communicate well is on the top of skills looked for in management level job applicants). My efforts to read with comprehension has gone from "labored at best" to excellent. Better reading skills has resulted in a larger working vocabulary. My social relationships have improved too --- largely from my ability to listen, think and respond in conversation. My old MO, "I yap non stop, you listen" didn't work well at all. My wife once accused me of being extremely opinionated while we were at a restaurant with friends just because I made it clear I did not agree with the dumb position everyone else was taking on some stupid issue. I told her "no way woman." To prove my wife dead wrong, I asked our friends if it (I'm extremely opinionated) is true. The silence was deafening. I'm not sure if the deafening silence meant they agreed with my wife. I think it might. So I'm listening carefully before I decree my non-negotiable stands. I'll be son-a-gun. My wife and friends do have good reasons for their conclusions. I'll be a further son-a-gun. Often times their reasons are so good they change my non-negotiable opinions.

Did Adderal teach me how to develop those sorely lacking adult skills? No. I've spent countless hours the past couple years learning skills I should have mastered 40 years ago. Adderall did for me what Strattera did for your son. It restored to near full capacity those badly dysfunctional thought control centers in my brain. Adderall restored my capacity learn, think, reason and control impulses that had distracted my focus and concentration.

I was unable to make the fixes. The fact is, it was impossible for me. My ADHD disability was too great. Adderall gave me the capacity to make the fixes. My study taught how to make the fixes, my directed efforts made the fixes.

No med. No fixes. I suspect your boy likewise needs medication before other remedial actions can help. You are supplying him with remediation. His just one step short of successful ADHD and behavior control.

Read again: ""I remember wistfully the sweet little attentive boy I had for a few months when he was on Strattera."

Bob

 
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:24 AM   #11
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. You have given me hope, and a much needed point in the right direction.

 
Old 10-13-2011, 08:20 PM   #12
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Re: Would meds help my adhd son's behavior apart from obvious adhd symptoms?

I definitely agree with Bob on the natural diet part (I'd probably agree with the rest of his post, but I don't know what it said, cause ADD kicked in halfway through! ).

Artificial ingredients are the arch enemy to ADHD kids, and I'd venture to guess that 99% of the foods kids eat are full of artificial ingredients! Sad thing is, most parents just don't realize the terrible effect those ingredients actually have on their kids. It makes sense, though. By the time our kids are 18 months old, we're already feeding them the same foods we feed the rest of our family. Our little 18 month old toddler's personality is really starting to develop, and with the help of a reaction to some of the foods we've fed our little precious, a demon emerges! Why in the world would we attribute this behavior to the foods we are feeding our children when they've acted like little terrors from the time they were tiny little tots? I had no idea diet made ADD worse, until my oldest (now almost 8) was probably 3-ish? I can't remember anymore....

Read ALL labels. Toothpaste, vitamins, medicines, ALL foods, juices, etc.... do not feed your son anything with artificial colors, or high fructose corn syrup. NOTHING. Feed him more vegetables (especially green), and fruits. More whole grains, lots of water, white meats, lots of fish, nuts.... any omega3 foods are good.... nothing fatty or fried, nothing processed, try to stay away from white flour, white rice, starchy foods, no sodas, definitely no chocolate or any sort of candy....

At least give it two weeks on a strict all natural diet, and see if it helps his behavior improve at all.

SLEEP is something else he desperately needs. Make sure he is getting between 10-11 hours of sleep at night. If he isn't, do what you can to change his schedule so that he is. Even 15 extra minutes can mean the difference between an A and a B in a "normal" kid.... I imagine it could mean the difference between an A and an F in an ADHD kid!

Last, make sure he is getting at least 30 minutes of exercise 3 days a week.... preferably out in the sunshine if the weather permits. It makes all the difference in the world! And by "exercise," I mean make sure he is up and moving. Whether he's playing ball, riding his bike, or just playing a game with his friends. As long as he's up and moving, I call it exercise!

Hope this helps!

 
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