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Old 10-04-2011, 10:06 PM   #1
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Working memory and school performance

Funny, I had a fixation with ADHD and it's link with IQ awhile back, but I've been reading studies of learning disabled children, and how working memory was the single best predictor of school performance. What I'm wondering is, do stimulants actually have an impact (in general) on working memory? I was on the lowest dosage of Concerta awhile back, and while it did help with focus somewhat, my working memory was only perhaps slightly improved. I'm not sure what to do with this issue. College is all about absorbing vast quantities of information and being able to manipulate it at least somewhat. The only reasons I am getting pretty much B's across the board is because of the fact that I am taking online classes.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:57 AM   #2
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Re: Working memory and school performance

Hey I have raised 3 of my own sons and one stepson. During thier time it all was called ADD. Whatever, anyway 2 of my sons were diagnosed and are adults now and still have it. Unfortunately neither want to take medication for it. What I will tell you is I learned a lot of things. Both of them although both having ADD were on total opposite sides of the spectrum. One could be controlled the other well thats another story. What I did learn is there are vitamin combination supplements that are strictly based on focus. I wish I could remember everything in them. I do know that each one exceeded that DV by over 200%. When I had my sons using these drink mixes, I was amazed. Not just at thier focus but even more on thier retention. What was even greater to see as a mom was them regaining thier self esteem. I am sure by now they have many more products out there. What I do know is I was not fortunate enough to be able to continue to afford the products for my sons and they soon fell back into old ways. Controlling ADD or ADHD has a lot to do with your diet. Look at multivitamin product drinks that advertise focus or awareness. Not stay awake or caffeine. The products will have a lot of B vitamins in them. Good Luck
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:27 AM   #3
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Re: Working memory and school performance

TryAgain,

Good to hear from you, Dude. Your "work around," taking online classes, WORKS. Where is the issue? You are getting "B's." Damn, I hope we don't do another 50K posts getting you off another "issue" that ain't an issue. You got me in tears. I love you. hehehehehehehe

Let's talk computer / brain analogies - working memory - what is it?

Working memory is a dedicated section of RAM where numbers are being manipulated at high speeds. CPU's have always been alble to route data to and from RAM memory locations far faster than in and out read/write to memory speeds. The CPU is bottle necked waiting for data coming in and bottle necked waiting for data to get out. It is like a double case of constipation.

The blockage is in the wires running from RAM to the CPU and back to RAM.

Engineers place the transistors in the CPU within a few microns of each other to reduce drive time. The drive from memory address to memory address is the inhibiting factor getting the CPU to move faster. Distance kills computer world speed.

The slowest link all of us have is our Internet connection. That wire is waaaaaaaaay too long and waaaaaaaaaay to slow.

Our brains have integrated RAM memory CPU's. The drive distance could not be shorter. But our neural cables are like fiber optics with embedded tirds. "Speed," the drug, can blast them tirds right out of our brains straight down our plumping drain hard waste pipe.

Yes. ADHD meds, assuming the correct med is used, improve working memory. Their tird blasting property blows the tird out of our brains signal paths. The wrong med pumps more poop into our constipated brain pipes.

The med you were taking is not the most effective for you.

I await your rebuttal to my your no-issue issue. :

Bob

BTW iluv diet advice may be a better than any anti-brian-constipation med. I've done some serious research that is leading me to believe that our diet can help activate good genes and suppress evil ADHD genes.

The List of Good ADHD Foods:

Cruciferous vegetables: broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, kale, cabbage, and bok choy.

Foods rich in folic acid: (meat) liver, chicken giblets, kidney, egg yolk; (legumes) dried beans, lentils, split peas, soya products, almonds, nuts; (startches) wholegrain breads, wheat flour, potato, sweet potato; (fruits and vegetables) spinach, beetroot, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cabbage, asparagus, bananas, oranges, peaches.

Foods rich in antioxidants: small dried red beans, wild blueberries, dried red kidney beans, pinto beans, cultivated blueberries, cranberries, cooked artichoke hearts, black berries, dried prunes, raspberries, strawberries, red delicious apple, granny smith apple, pecans, sweat cherries, black plum, cooked russet potatoes, black beans, plum, and gala apple. (in order of decreasing antioxidant content).

Foods rich in vitamin B12: (meat) liver, beef top sirloin, mutton, chicken, pork, ham, fish, whole egg, cheeseburger, cured roasted ham, roasted chicken; (dairy) milk, cheese, yogurt; (seafood) cooked clams, wild or farmed cooked rainbow trout, cooked sockeye salmon, cooked haddock, white tuna; (cereal grains) fortified breakfast cereal.

Foods rich in amino acids, B complex vitamins: ( methionine, an amino acid) spinach, garlic, brazil nuts, kidney beans, tofu, chicken, beef, fish; (choline a B complex vitamin) liver, eggs, lettuce, peanuts; (metals) zinc; (resveratrol red grape antioxidant) red wine, betaine. Betaine is a sweet crystalline quaternary ammonium salt that was first isolated in beet juice and is used to treat homocysteinuria and is also used in its hydrochloride form to treat hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid).

This stuff isn't half bad. Cheeseburger? Wonderful. Liver? Never. I'll die first before eating anything that vile. I love every other food in the B12 class. I won't eat liver and I won't die. Cool.

I'm very short in the antioxidant group. I like all the foods listed. Just never got into the habit eating many berries. No problem with this add-on.

The cruciferous vegetables? They all suck. People that eat liver eat cabbage and cauliflower and bok choy whatever that is. It has to suck because it is in the suck group. Unless bok choy is mis-categorized. I doubt it, the name alone says it all. SUCKS.

I got a solution. I'll select the configurous vegetables group and hit the delete key. Solved.

Your job is to research "genetic epigenetics" to understand why the above food should help. Then you get back and explain pig-enetics to me. Neuro stuff hurts my head.

 
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:11 AM   #4
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Re: Working memory and school performance

I will see if I can find what I used to give my boys. If I can I will get the list on here. Hell I liked it too. For those 60hour work straight through, or trvaeleing with no time to stop and rest. But I am sure I can get. I will try to do this afternoon. I actually challenged one of the groups studying ADD years ago, but they didn't like me to well, but I guess I could've used a few nicer words LOL
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:59 AM   #5
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Re: Working memory and school performance

As promised


Serving Size One Pouch 8 fl. oz.
Servings per Container 1
Calories 45
Total Fat 0
Saturated Fat 0
Cholesterol 0
Sodium 0
Potassium 0
Total Carbohydrates 11g
Sugars 0
Protein 0
Vitamin A 20%
Vitamin C 300%
Vitamin E 100%
Thiamine 200%
Riboflavin 200%
Niacin 300%
Vitamin B-6 750%
Vitamin B-12 750%
Pantothenic Acid 500%
Zinc 20%
Total Caffeine 120mg
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:13 PM   #6
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Re: Working memory and school performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post
TryAgain,

Good to hear from you, Dude. Your "work around," taking online classes, WORKS. Where is the issue? You are getting "B's." Damn, I hope we don't do another 50K posts getting you off another "issue" that ain't an issue. You got me in tears. I love you. hehehehehehehe

Let's talk computer / brain analogies - working memory - what is it?

Working memory is a dedicated section of RAM where numbers are being manipulated at high speeds. CPU's have always been alble to route data to and from RAM memory locations far faster than in and out read/write to memory speeds. The CPU is bottle necked waiting for data coming in and bottle necked waiting for data to get out. It is like a double case of constipation.

The blockage is in the wires running from RAM to the CPU and back to RAM.

Engineers place the transistors in the CPU within a few microns of each other to reduce drive time. The drive from memory address to memory address is the inhibiting factor getting the CPU to move faster. Distance kills computer world speed.

The slowest link all of us have is our Internet connection. That wire is waaaaaaaaay too long and waaaaaaaaaay to slow.

Our brains have integrated RAM memory CPU's. The drive distance could not be shorter. But our neural cables are like fiber optics with embedded tirds. "Speed," the drug, can blast them tirds right out of our brains straight down our plumping drain hard waste pipe.

Yes. ADHD meds, assuming the correct med is used, improve working memory. Their tird blasting property blows the tird out of our brains signal paths. The wrong med pumps more poop into our constipated brain pipes.

The med you were taking is not the most effective for you.

I await your rebuttal to my your no-issue issue. :

Bob

BTW iluv diet advice may be a better than any anti-brian-constipation med. I've done some serious research that is leading me to believe that our diet can help activate good genes and suppress evil ADHD genes.

The List of Good ADHD Foods:

Cruciferous vegetables: broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, kale, cabbage, and bok choy.

Foods rich in folic acid: (meat) liver, chicken giblets, kidney, egg yolk; (legumes) dried beans, lentils, split peas, soya products, almonds, nuts; (startches) wholegrain breads, wheat flour, potato, sweet potato; (fruits and vegetables) spinach, beetroot, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cabbage, asparagus, bananas, oranges, peaches.

Foods rich in antioxidants: small dried red beans, wild blueberries, dried red kidney beans, pinto beans, cultivated blueberries, cranberries, cooked artichoke hearts, black berries, dried prunes, raspberries, strawberries, red delicious apple, granny smith apple, pecans, sweat cherries, black plum, cooked russet potatoes, black beans, plum, and gala apple. (in order of decreasing antioxidant content).

Foods rich in vitamin B12: (meat) liver, beef top sirloin, mutton, chicken, pork, ham, fish, whole egg, cheeseburger, cured roasted ham, roasted chicken; (dairy) milk, cheese, yogurt; (seafood) cooked clams, wild or farmed cooked rainbow trout, cooked sockeye salmon, cooked haddock, white tuna; (cereal grains) fortified breakfast cereal.

Foods rich in amino acids, B complex vitamins: ( methionine, an amino acid) spinach, garlic, brazil nuts, kidney beans, tofu, chicken, beef, fish; (choline a B complex vitamin) liver, eggs, lettuce, peanuts; (metals) zinc; (resveratrol red grape antioxidant) red wine, betaine. Betaine is a sweet crystalline quaternary ammonium salt that was first isolated in beet juice and is used to treat homocysteinuria and is also used in its hydrochloride form to treat hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid).

This stuff isn't half bad. Cheeseburger? Wonderful. Liver? Never. I'll die first before eating anything that vile. I love every other food in the B12 class. I won't eat liver and I won't die. Cool.

I'm very short in the antioxidant group. I like all the foods listed. Just never got into the habit eating many berries. No problem with this add-on.

The cruciferous vegetables? They all suck. People that eat liver eat cabbage and cauliflower and bok choy whatever that is. It has to suck because it is in the suck group. Unless bok choy is mis-categorized. I doubt it, the name alone says it all. SUCKS.

I got a solution. I'll select the configurous vegetables group and hit the delete key. Solved.

Your job is to research "genetic epigenetics" to understand why the above food should help. Then you get back and explain pig-enetics to me. Neuro stuff hurts my head.

Hey Bob, nice to see you're still roaming the boards . My issue might seem like a non-issue, and perhaps it isn't, but I feel like I'm struggling. While I put what seems like a low amount of effort into my studies, it seems like an uphill battle. That sentence may make you nonplussed, but I'm actually afraid to put actual extreme effort in, because then I would see my plateau for what it is.

About the working memory issue, I test myself. I can barely retain a sentence and my mind garbles the sequence. I do work somewhat better when stimulants are coarsing through my system. Anyway, online classes make it hard to test as for most of the classes the teachers admit to the students being able to use books during exams.

Your advice on vitamins was good, and I've been considering supplementing with vitamin B12 as I think it did help me before, memory and core functionality wise.

As per epigenetics, I've read on that stuff before. I'll have to look into it more deeply later. I don't know, school seems to be sapping whatever mental energy I would normally have for other pursuits.

As an aside, I've beend diagnosed with a severe dopamine shortage, at the end of the day I'm not sure what my issue is. I just know no med has really helped me greatly. Vyvanse had an amazing affect on me, that lasted for maybe two days before the other side-effects kicked in.

Also, iluv, thanks for the nutrition advice as well, and you're right of course.

God, sometimes I wonder how truly profound my ADHD is, I see these monolithic posts and I can barely tackle a few paragraphs.
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By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.--Confucius

Last edited by TryAgain121; 10-05-2011 at 02:15 PM.

 
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:54 PM   #7
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Re: Working memory and school performance

Your welcome anytime. Life is not an easy path to go down. My Grandma once told me I was like a rubber ball just always bouncing with the bumps Truth is we all can bounce with the bumps, just remember your not alone and this world wasn't intended for us to tackle it alone. Good Luck
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:21 AM   #8
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Re: Working memory and school performance

TryAgain,

I have become proficient at the use of several ADHD work-around strategies. I'm stable on my current medication, Vyvanse. My symptoms are well controlled without side-effects. I want you to know first where I am on ADHD remediation progress scale.

I get a about a 40% to 50% return on my efforts toward achievement compared to the ROI (Return On Investment) experienced by those having similar core strenghts and weakness as me less the ADHD enumbrance.
I am forced to work twice as hard as my peers with similar characteristics.

May I suggest that you a add a few of ADHD work-around strategies to your efforts toward achieving your goals..

I am capable learning complex subjects and proficiency in subject skills. I have not nor ever will chose a formal college education to acquire skills I need to reach my goals. I could not keep pace with demands of full time on campus college education. I cannot operate in that environment and I am not compatible with the teaching system employed.

I am educated. I have wisely used and continue to us a different type of education that has consistenly worked well for mel.

I have lost nothing because of not being college educated except peace of mind. I had been so indoctrinated that I thoroughly believed the same lie as nearly everyone of us dumb Americans. It became a strong driving subconscience force. I made many bad decisions beause of it. The lie is: "Our personal worth is measured by the level of college education achieved achieved with far more weight given to the name of the university attended.

Try to get the sense of this dialog: Try feeling yourself as the one being asked the questions.

Where did you go to school? I ah went to Harvard [pause], ah a (very low in tone and volume) haha the Business School. Yeah-a I earned my doctorate in business management. [very long pause for effect to sink in].

Now, TryAgain, fell the power, your are God Almighty. You are worshipped. Your are the standard of perfection that every dumb American uses to measure a person's worth.

We will conclude here. Where do your work? "cough, cough well-ah, ah I on a sabbatical. I'm traveling tommow to Venice. The flooded Venice in Italy to soak up the fine arts." Your worshipper is awe of your grander.

Keep private that you are unemployed and cannot get a job.

The American economy went to hell. Most of jobs lost were occupied by college graduates. Did you know your newly acquired worshipper is a electrician. He graduated from Vocational School were the dumb and misfits get sent. He started little electrical repair srevice right out of Votech. That was 20 years ago. Today his electrical contractor business grosses millions per year. Your worshiper pockets a mega buck for himself.



I know the guy, TryAgain. I did not create a fictitious person to make the point.

We are so indoctrinated, that many choose courses that will end in failure.

Don't forget. Taking on-line courses will get you the job. "B" is a damn good grade. Your type of education choices is a very wise decision on your part. Don't allow dumb American BS to influence you into a course that wil end in smoke and flames. Your quality of life will be combustible source of the smoke and flames.

I know how powerful the BS influence is. I feel its influence.

You are doing so well. Keep it up.

Bye
Bob

 
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:27 PM   #9
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Re: Working memory and school performance

Really never feel like ADHD has anything with your IQ. My sons are very intelligent. They have a golden touch. Anything they put their hands on they learn right then. To this day thay believe Einstein was ADD. Don't give up, and be proud of any accomplishments that you are able to make. Take just a few moments and look around and see how many people out there that don't have ADHD and are accomplishing nothing. As long as you have a concern about your abilities and the will to do better you will do fine. You are striving to become better. Keep that drive, you will not fail.

Please understand failing at something is not bad either as long as you learn from it. The only time failing is bad is when you choose not to try to suceed at it again. I can assure you anything that anyone that has accomplished anything in this world failed at it learned from it and just continued to try again until thay were able to accomplish it.

As long as you are concerned you will do well. Don't stess it so much. Your doing fine.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:14 AM   #10
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Re: Working memory and school performance

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

~ Albert Einstein

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:33 AM   #11
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Re: Working memory and school performance

I am new to this board, but saw your post on vitamin drink that may help ADD symptoms. Can you give me the name? My 9yr old son and I have been diagnosed ADD inattentive.
Thanks!

 
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