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Old 09-24-2003, 01:38 PM   #1
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Post Hey Jeffie......let's talk.

Jeffie,
Let me start off by saying that I am very critical of a lot of the AA meetings I attend and I've gotten to the point where there are only a handful I attend on a regular basis. On the other hand, I have looked high and low to try and find a way to quit using and AA is the only program that I can find where people consistently have long-term success.

I don't know what it is that makes it work but, if you follow the program exactly as it is designed, you will not fail. Before Bill Wilson died, someone asked him if he would change anything about the Big Book and he said the only thing he would change in the entire 164 pages is before the 12 steps are enumerated, it starts off by saying that "rarely have we seen a person fail who has followed this simple program...". According to Wilson, the only thing in the whole book he would have changed is that statement. He would have changed it to "NEVER have we seen a person fail...".

Do I like going to meetings? sometimes, but not always. Do I like working the steps? Nope, but I'm in the middle of a step group right now and I'm committed to working the steps at least once every year. It's truly amazing how good I feel when I complete the 4th and 5th and 8th steps. It's hard work but I worked hard to get the drugs; why shouldn't I work hard at staying clean?

Do I like the thought that I'm going to have to do this for the rest of my life unless someone comes up with something better??? HELL NO!!! In fact, I am very resentful of that fact and something I have to be conscious of or it can lead me back into a relapse.

Do I believe AA is right for everyone? Absolutely not. There are some people out there that get physically addicted to the pills (i.e. dependent) but, after being detoxed they never pick up again. That's not a true addict. They did not have the genetic predisposition. They don't have the disease.

Do I believe AA is the only way for true alcoholics/addicts to get clean? Absolutely not. One of my counselors in treatment that I respect a great deal, only used AA for a year or so and then relied entirely on his faith (I think he was Baptist) and he has stayed clean for over 20 years. But, even then, he admitted that a lot of the spiritual stuff he did was very similar to working the 12 steps (i.e. making amends, etc.).

Again, even though I don't believe AA is the only way for someone to get clean, I haven't seen anything that works better in my experience.

What are your concerns about the program? Please be very honest with me.
I look forward to hearing from you,
verylucky


[This message has been edited by verylucky (edited 09-25-2003).]

 
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Old 09-25-2003, 06:41 AM   #2
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bump

 
Old 09-25-2003, 08:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by verylucky:

Do I like the thought that I'm going to have to do this for the rest of my life unless someone comes up with something better??? HELL NO!!! In fact, I am very resentful of that fact and something I have to be conscious of or it can lead me back into a relapse.

You have to be conscious of what or you'll relapse?? That you have to attend meetings for the rest of your life, or that you resent having to do so? How does this make or break your recovery? Please explain. The only aspect of the disease model of addiction I MIGHT buy into is the damage done by opiate abuse that may require one to medically maintained thereafter. Do you really believe that as long as you are on the suboxone that you at such a great risk for relapse?

Ever heard the phrase "We create our own realities?"

Thanks Lucky--please see my LOOOONG post under the AA/RR thread. And I'm genuinely interested in your explanation of your impending relapse without a certain "consciousness."

 
Old 09-25-2003, 09:04 AM   #4
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Jeffie,
Both the resentment part and the not going to meetings part will, in all likelihood, have me ending up in a relapse.

And, yes, I think I am very much in danger of a relapse while taking the suboxone if I don't work a program. We've seen people on this board talk about going out and using opiates after/during taking the suboxone. It's not a cure-all. It's a fantastic medication but it is not a cure for addiction.

Every time I've relapsed before, it's been after I had backed off on my program. Every time. I have NEVER relapsed while in the middle of working a solid program.

Yes, I've heard of the phrase about us creating our own realities. Again, if that's what you think you can do that... if you think you can "change your reality" (i.e. use your willpower)... and it keeps you clean, then I wish you the best.

I'm just telling you that hasn't worked for me. I've read ever self-help and psycho-babble crap I can get my hands on... and I've tried on my own to change my reality and it didn't work for me. That doesn't mean it won't work for you.

I'm not here to convince you of anything. I'm just telling you what my experience has been in the hope that some one (anyone) might benefit from it. But that's all it is... my experience... nothing more, nothing less.

Take care,
verylucky

 
Old 09-27-2003, 11:14 AM   #5
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Hey how is everyone, hope you are doing good Jeffie, haven't heard from you in a while!!

Lucky,
I haven't read through a lot of posts lately, been running around a lot w/the toddler, school, work, wedding plans etc., but your statement about "relapse" scared me. Is everything OK? You know you are always IMO the strong one, who usually has the answers and is always willing to help, but this whole process is still not EASY, being on the sub has made the transition much easier....but it's not the same. Are you having cravings? Or are you just overanalyzing scenarios, and not taking it one day at a time?? Maybe, I'm just reading too much into your post, but I guess my point is your allowed to vent too, and if something is wrong..talk about it!! YOu know we are all hear for you!! Like I said maybe I misinterpreted, but it just sounded like something was bothering you????
Gabbi

 
Old 09-27-2003, 01:25 PM   #6
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Sorry Lucky, I may have butted in, I just read some of the other posts about AA vs RR, I see you say relapse and I get nervous!! So I hope everything is OK, if not we are always here!!

 
Old 09-27-2003, 04:23 PM   #7
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Gabbi,
Everything's cool. I appreciate the concern though. Jeffie and I were just debating something and I think we let our emotions get in the way. I was just thinking about the potential to relapse which, in my view, is always there for an addict. Jeffie apparently thinks differently. Anyway, I've got a 5-year-old little girl wanting to get on "Barbie.com" so I'll touch base later.

Again, thanks for the concern Gabbi,
verylucky

 
Old 09-27-2003, 04:56 PM   #8
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I'm glad everything is good. aI cannot intelligently debate AA vs RR, I haven't experienced either yet, but desperately need to soon. I don't think so many people would be addicts if there wasn't the possibility of relapse... I mean wouldn't it be nice to say "poof" I'm not an addict anymore! And you never had a thought about it again? But that just isn't reality, not for me at least.

I can't wait to move on to Barbie...we are stuck on Elmo's world/Barney right now!!!

Gabbi

 
Old 09-27-2003, 06:58 PM   #9
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I could handle Elmo but, thank God, neither of our kids ever liked Barney. As far as the debate about AA and RR, the only thing that matters is that whatever you choose it works. In my experience, that has been the AA program.

Have a good weekend and thanks again for the concern,
verylucky

 
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