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Old 11-06-2003, 07:17 PM   #1
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hcvhelp HB User
"Benzo's" (Xanax, Valium etc.) and Opiates!

Hi all.....was just reading through some of the posts and noticed that some people are trying to detox off of opiates using benzodiazepine's....commonly referred to as "benzo's", brand name - Xanax, Valium etc.....while others are suggesting it. I know it might seem like a good way to take away some of the side effects, but believe me when I tell you that it is an accident waiting to happen. We really have to remember that unfortunately, there are no experts on this board and everyone has really good intentions. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how many people I have seen OD and even worse DIE mixing these two drugs. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE everyone....be careful!

Also, remember...there are some really WONDERFUL sites on the internet that DO have experts there to help you with opiate addiction. They do not judge, or call the police and there's nothing that you can't discuss.

Please know that I am not suggesting that you detox "cold turkey", but I was glad to see Clonodine mentioned as well as buprenorphine and methadone. For the person that was detoxing from Hydrocodone.....the clonodine would be PERFECT for you. Mixing the Benzo's and opiates really concerns me so much....I do not want to hear of one more person dying trying to be comfortable. Thanks for listening!!.....H.H.

Last edited by moderator2; 11-09-2003 at 05:08 AM.

 
Old 11-06-2003, 09:19 PM   #2
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Julie29 HB User
Hi and thank you! That is very good advice for all of us here. I think alot of people here that use the "benzos" use them during the CT process when they are no longer using opiate's.

Just a bitO' info here. I am being treated my an addictionologist and he absolutely says "no benzo's" while I am in the tapering process. He also said her preferred that I not use them when I finish my "taper" and go CT. He did perscribe clonodine as well as tegretol. The clonodine is truly amazing for some of the WD symptoms I have been experiencing.

Maybe you could send an email to the moderators and ask them if you could post those links. I think that is great info. and there are so many people here that could use it! I think you can post webistes as long as they are pre-approved. Thank you again for the info, Julie

Last edited by Julie29; 11-06-2003 at 09:21 PM.

 
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Old 11-07-2003, 04:25 AM   #3
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Hi, Julie...thanks for the nice reply!

Benzo's and opiates are like a bad love story, lol. It's probably the #1 abused drug for those that are on methadone treatment and really something one wants to stay away from if they truly want to recover from their opiate addiction. Nobody knows more than me how uncomfortable detoxing can be, but I cannot stress enough what a bad idea it is to do it with Benzos. You think the withdrawals from opiates are bad?.....try detoxing from Benzos.....not.

The thing is.....when you're taking opiates you are depressing your respiratory system. Add benzos to that equation and it's how people die. The two of them together go hand in hand and they have found that people that get addicted to opiates have a propensity to become addicted to Benzos.....and vice versa. That's one of the reasons that taking them while detoxing CT is a bad idea.

....H.H.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie29
Hi and thank you! That is very good advice for all of us here. I think alot of people here that use the "benzos" use them during the CT process when they are no longer using opiate's.

Just a bitO' info here. I am being treated my an addictionologist and he absolutely says "no benzo's" while I am in the tapering process. He also said her preferred that I not use them when I finish my "taper" and go CT. He did perscribe clonodine as well as tegretol. The clonodine is truly amazing for some of the WD symptoms I have been experiencing.

Maybe you could send an email to the moderators and ask them if you could post those links. I think that is great info. and there are so many people here that could use it! I think you can post webistes as long as they are pre-approved. Thank you again for the info, Julie

Last edited by AddictionMod; 11-07-2003 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Please do not attempt to make personal contact on the board.

 
Old 11-07-2003, 07:49 AM   #4
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I would like to add a different perspective or additional supplemental thoughts:

I agree that the use of a (abuse) benzodiazepine in conjunction with use of or abuse of Opiates is most likely something that should be avoided. But here is where I need to add that there are many, many folks being treated by highly professional people (DR's) that have a legitimate reason to be on Opiate based pain medications as well as a benzodiazepine and are prescribed this treatment plan based on each individual situation. These would include folks with Chronic Pain issues. Also, having had the pleasure of detoxing a few times (arrrg) and consulting with detox facilities and researching detox protocols that the use of benzodiazepine's in the treatment of "cold Turkey" detox is an accepted and approved practice. With alcohol detox Valium is the preferred benzodiazepine. With Opiates they typically use Librium or Valium because of the longer half life’s of these meds. Also when you look at the detox protocols you will usually read that the use of benzodiazepine's is limited to 3-5 days and not usually longer. This is to avoid jumping of one withdrawal issue and into another one with the benzodiazepine's. Using benzodiazepine's for 3-5 days (in a tapered fashion) normally will not cause withdrawal issues.

Like any situation when you are required to use multiple drugs n the treatment of health issues it’s extremely important to understand each medication and their interactions to avoid complications from drug interactions. This applies to opiates and benzodiazepine's also.

The words of caution from hcvhelp are well founded but I wanted to add some additional information that would allow a responsible decision by those here and not to arbitrarily not consider benzodiazepine's in the opiate “cold Turkey” detox process. If not prescribed benzodiazepine's for a health issue unrelated to opiate addiction I would not use benzodiazepine's in the tapering method of detox.

Not trying to rock the boat here or be disrespectful, just additional info and if anything an “agree to disagree” situation

phil

 
Old 11-07-2003, 11:09 AM   #5
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LaynesADDICTI0N HB User
Actually all the treatment centers that I've been in will not use benzos to w/d from opiates, they use phenabarb and that can not touch a benzo. The problem is I take klonopin and they wont give me benzos so I can only stay the 3-5 days and by day 3 I have to have someone sneak me in a pill so I dont DIE. That's why I can never do a 28 day program. Benzo w/d is more fatal than alcohol detox and these treatment centers have their head up their a**

 
Old 11-07-2003, 11:11 AM   #6
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hcvhelp HB User
Hi, Phil....thanks for the feedback! On the contrary...I don't think we really disagree at all. It's hard to pack everything into a thread and sometimes I don't get everything out. orrrrr...there's a name for it in the hcv community...called "brainfog", lol!

I, of course, agree with you that there are indeed people that will need to be prescribed opiates and/or benzo's for whatever reason....and I have no argument with that at all. I was more talking about people that are trying this themselves.....self prescribing....fooling around with dosages....it's just too damned "iffy". Hell...it's hard enough for a physician to get the correct dosage and they're trained....let alone someone that is trying to detox themselves and doesn't want to deal with the discomfort.

Phil....I got on this benzo/opiate campaign bigtime starting last year when I received a letter from a grieving father that had just lost his son in a HOSPITAL setting where they had given him too much methadone and Xanax. The young man was like 15 years old and it was a pathetic situation. Since then....I cannot tell you how many OD's and even deaths that have come to my attention with the mixture of Benzo's and opiates.

I think we're both basically saying the same thing....and that is to BE CAREFUL...listen to your Dr. and NOT what you hear on the internet from a well intentioned poster. Your life could depend on it.

Hope you all have a great weekend!!......H.H.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster2003
I would like to add a different perspective or additional supplemental thoughts:

I agree that the use of a (abuse) benzodiazepine in conjunction with use of or abuse of Opiates is most likely something that should be avoided. But here is where I need to add that there are many, many folks being treated by highly professional people (DR's) that have a legitimate reason to be on Opiate based pain medications as well as a benzodiazepine and are prescribed this treatment plan based on each individual situation. These would include folks with Chronic Pain issues. Also, having had the pleasure of detoxing a few times (arrrg) and consulting with detox facilities and researching detox protocols that the use of benzodiazepine's in the treatment of "cold Turkey" detox is an accepted and approved practice. With alcohol detox Valium is the preferred benzodiazepine. With Opiates they typically use Librium or Valium because of the longer half life’s of these meds. Also when you look at the detox protocols you will usually read that the use of benzodiazepine's is limited to 3-5 days and not usually longer. This is to avoid jumping of one withdrawal issue and into another one with the benzodiazepine's. Using benzodiazepine's for 3-5 days (in a tapered fashion) normally will not cause withdrawal issues.

Like any situation when you are required to use multiple drugs n the treatment of health issues it’s extremely important to understand each medication and their interactions to avoid complications from drug interactions. This applies to opiates and benzodiazepine's also.

The words of caution from hcvhelp are well founded but I wanted to add some additional information that would allow a responsible decision by those here and not to arbitrarily not consider benzodiazepine's in the opiate “cold Turkey” detox process. If not prescribed benzodiazepine's for a health issue unrelated to opiate addiction I would not use benzodiazepine's in the tapering method of detox.

Not trying to rock the boat here or be disrespectful, just additional info and if anything an “agree to disagree” situation

phil

 
Old 11-07-2003, 11:22 AM   #7
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hcvhelp HB User
Hi, Layne....thanks for jumping in with such a good topic. You're correct...rehab treatment units do not use benzo's to detox from opiates any longer. I was in treatment about 3 times many years ago...even tried Betty Ford, lol....thought I might catch a famous husband while I was at it, lol. The first time I did a 28 day program they did use Valium to help detox. However, now they will only use the Clonodine...or Catapress patch and some Bentyl for the tummy symptoms. I really haven't hear of them using Phenabarb? Although....I did have a child while on methadone and my baby used the Phenabarb to detox from the methadone....seems like 100 years ago...sigh.

I'm a little confused .....in your post you mentioned Opiates, Klonopin and alchohol. When you go into rehab....which one are you detoxing from.....or all of them?? I know and have seen people detox from benzo's......it is a much slower process and I have never heard of any professional facility having somebody just cold turkey from them???!!! They will usually wean you down.....sometimes using an anti-seizure medication in conjunction. I could be wrong....but I have never heard of a treatment center doing that, Layne...can you elaborate a little? I would think there would have to be someplace that could correctly detox you from the benzos?.......H.H.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LaynesADDICTI0N
Actually all the treatment centers that I've been in will not use benzos to w/d from opiates, they use phenabarb and that can not touch a benzo. The problem is I take klonopin and they wont give me benzos so I can only stay the 3-5 days and by day 3 I have to have someone sneak me in a pill so I dont DIE. That's why I can never do a 28 day program. Benzo w/d is more fatal than alcohol detox and these treatment centers have their head up their a**

 
Old 11-07-2003, 12:29 PM   #8
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Brenda555 HB User
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaynesADDICTI0N
Actually all the treatment centers that I've been in will not use benzos to w/d from opiates, they use phenabarb and that can not touch a benzo. The problem is I take klonopin and they wont give me benzos so I can only stay the 3-5 days and by day 3 I have to have someone sneak me in a pill so I dont DIE. That's why I can never do a 28 day program. Benzo w/d is more fatal than alcohol detox and these treatment centers have their head up their a**
Hi,
I have been taking klonopin for 8 years, that's right 8 years prescribed by my psychiatrist. Never more than 1 mg, usually 0.5 mg at night. When I wanted to go inpatient detox in the past, they told me I had to stop klonopin as well, so I decided to go outpatient detox. I took klonopin way before I got involved with opiates, and continue to take them w/o ever abusing them or seeking out more, no tolerance, etc. They have done nothign but helped me.

This coming hospitalization, the Dr. has some kind of affiliation with this hospital (detox center) such that his orders will allow me to continue being given 1 klonopin at night (as usually prescribed by my other Dr.). And he is an addictionoloogist as well as an MD, Ph.D. and in my particular case, sees no problem with my taking klonopin during this time.

Everybody's history and cases are individual. Also, in some treatment centers, they still give ativan for a short period of time during withdrawal, and phenobarbital is commonly given for opiate withdrawal (instead of the clonidine).

Brenda

 
Old 11-07-2003, 02:11 PM   #9
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Philster2003 HB User
Layne, hcv, brenda,

Granted things may have changed in detox centers in the last 12 months or so but last year at this time when I was interviewing 3 or 4 here in Houston all of them disclosed the use of Librium or Valium as part of their detox protocols. This was one of many meds they would use in a 3-5 day detox program along with Clonidine and others. I also went to a few major outpatient programs here and they also had their staff psychiatrist indicate they would use benzo's to aid in CT relief. And when I finally decided to use my Primary Care Physician he (mid 30's and very good and thorough) also indicated using Valium. I'm also the kind of person who does extensive research and before I would decide my method of detox I went to the Internet and searched on all detox information I could find to validate the information I was receiving from the various areas I was working with. I searched the NET again today and I found many facilities that listed Benzo's as part of their detox protocol. The reason for my post and info was based on this knowledge I had assimilated. If things have changed then I’m just outdated lol Bottom line, I would utilize a Dr or get a professional opinion before I would carry out CT or taper program. The information I provide is just to arm folks with knowledge, knowledge is power and knowledge is a key factor of success.

Like I said I'm sure things change, they always do, but the important thing is to use a professional when you detox; so you can effectively detox correctly with the most efficient results and mitigated withdrawals. Don't try and undertake this alone if possible.

phil

 
Old 11-10-2003, 10:56 AM   #10
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sleeptweedledee HB User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster2003
Layne, hcv, brenda,

Granted things may have changed in detox centers in the last 12 months or so but last year at this time when I was interviewing 3 or 4 here in Houston all of them disclosed the use of Librium or Valium as part of their detox protocols. This was one of many meds they would use in a 3-5 day detox program along with Clonidine and others. I also went to a few major outpatient programs here and they also had their staff psychiatrist indicate they would use benzo's to aid in CT relief. And when I finally decided to use my Primary Care Physician he (mid 30's and very good and thorough) also indicated using Valium. I'm also the kind of person who does extensive research and before I would decide my method of detox I went to the Internet and searched on all detox information I could find to validate the information I was receiving from the various areas I was working with. I searched the NET again today and I found many facilities that listed Benzo's as part of their detox protocol. The reason for my post and info was based on this knowledge I had assimilated. If things have changed then I’m just outdated lol Bottom line, I would utilize a Dr or get a professional opinion before I would carry out CT or taper program. The information I provide is just to arm folks with knowledge, knowledge is power and knowledge is a key factor of success.

Like I said I'm sure things change, they always do, but the important thing is to use a professional when you detox; so you can effectively detox correctly with the most efficient results and mitigated withdrawals. Don't try and undertake this alone if possible.

phil
Please can somebody help me? I am suffering Klonopin withdrawls 0.5 mg once daily as we speak and the thing is I can go get them filled but I have to much pride in myself to go pick them up I never knew until this that Benzo withdrawl could be this severe. I have no health insurance and because I pay cash I havent went and got them and I am thinking I need to rehab but dont have insurance and I am wondering what they use to get you off benzos in rehab? You see I am twenty-five years old with two kids and married, I have been through more in the past few years than I can describe and through it all I never touched any drug that wasnt given for emergency in the hospital at that time. I hate alcohol and when I was ever around any street drug I would run for dear life because all my life I was scared of withdrawl. Mom taught me well, however my brother has been rehabed for alcohol addiction and every drug out there. I hate Klonopin and although before I ever took ANY meds for anxiety I suffered severe anxiety to were I would shake every day and even went of the deep end but never went against my doctors advice. My husband says well you should go pick them up from the pharmacey because you are supposed to take them as directed and I dont abuse them I have been on them for two years and due due these withdrawl symptoms I am stubborn and will not go get them, is that crazy? I need help though and cant deal with this!
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