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Old 05-01-2004, 12:01 AM   #1
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Murphy555 HB User
From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

I won't say much as I last time I was on this board, I noticed a stalker and I'm too concerned w/ my own health than that silliness.

But, it feels like the world has come to end,

I complied with the Dr., took responsibility for my mistake, would have done anything for a 2nd chance.

I was discharged 1 day early because of insurance and the valium detox was not difficult at all. I was told to come back for the rest of the week for day treatment.

Today was my 1st day early in the morning and I began to shake and realized I had no had suboxone for a day; then I got the news; he was weaning me off suboxone. He said he spoke to my doc on the outside - that will change in time who told this Dr. that he AND I would rather stick to 1 Klonopin at night as usual vs. continuing on the suboxone because of my mistake. Problem is NOONE asked me!!!! He just made the decision for me and then later at night E-mails me that I'm to blame for everything that happened to this point. I do NOT deny responsibility for my bad decisions and making the mistake or ordering valium-yet when confided in Marcia about it and that I wanted to get off she asked me wy I was hesitant to tell her-I said I was afraid Doc would take away the suboxone and it was a godsend to me. She assured me that would never happen. Well it did.

So now I'm discharged and do whatever they do to detox off suboxone, medically. Yet my choice was to get off the klonopin, in fact at one point I asked him, can you really detox me off that by Friday? And he said yes. He gave me every indication that the suboxone would be continued until I was discharged.

I'd like another chance but he was covered by my insurance. As for Marcia though, I was able to tell her that calling in scripts online was unprofessional (have that on tape) and asked for my chart back. In fact the ONLY good thing about this is the fact that I don't have to look at her face anymore and listen to stories about her grandkids when my insurance company was paying them $200/hour.

I feel shaky and numb. I blamed my outside psych for not communicating until after 3 days when the doc wanted to talk to him yet he wrote me an e-mail that was partially true, about responsibilty and quit blaming which I've been reflecting on, but he plays a very important role in this as well. Doc made a decision based on what he said, that I should continue, and I went to get off them and continue the benzo.

But I think worst is when you're a mess physically, psychologically and your own psych writes something so terse and abrupt, unlike my PCP who was filled with compassion and wants to help.

Enuf info, I'm tired and yet I don't feel like I'll sleep tonight; how can expect one to go to a place all day and re-watch oprah winfrey series. If it were not for my babies I'd be gone. The whole world is gone and I don't want to live in it. When CAN you resume taking an opiate during suboxone w/d; how long does it take. I'd ask the Dr. but I'd rather not even talk to him at this point. These docs think their Gods and they're not for blame for anything?

Suggestions. Feedback. Please be kind.

 
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:33 AM   #2
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy - can you call and find another Sub doctor on Monday? Are they just cutting you off cold turkey? I would call the 1-800-Suboxone number and tell them what is going on. Maybe they can call your doc and tell him they can't just stop you or even taper you in one week. That's just not enough time. Are you entirely out of Sub right now? If not, how many do you have left? Murphy, for whatever reason, your strength is being tested right now and you do have it in you to fight this.

Even if you have to drive several hours to another doctor, then that's what needs to happen. This is touching a very personal place for me because I don't know what in the hell I would do without my Sub and if someone just took it away after one week? I would be extremely upset - to say the least. Go ahead and go to the Sub site and do the physician's locator and find some Sub docs in your area or somewhat close to you and call ALL of them on Monday.

Also, I have never heard of a doctor communicating w/a patient through email. This is just absurd. Can he not take the time to talk to you face to face? I do believe you have the worst doctor in the US. One that should not be allowed to practice medicine. Oh, I forgot - he's not... His assistant does it for him, right? Oh, I am so mad! They cannot just stop giving you Suboxone with no taper... Or at minimum, you need a LONG taper to get off of it. That is what everyone has been saying when they stop taking it. Stay strong and continue to post to us. Can you tell us exactly what meds you are taking right now? I think a one week detox off of valium is way too fast. Now, if you're still taking Klonopin each night, then you will be fine because it's still a benzo and you shouldn't have withdrawals but let us know exactly what you are taking...

 
Old 05-01-2004, 05:02 AM   #3
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy - It sounds like they crossed the River Styx to get a license for your doctor to practice--he seems so dead emotionally. I agree so much with Banker--please call that suboxone number and tell them how fast you are expected to taper. Save all the other information until they ask. The most important thing right now is to find out if they consider this taper too fast and too soon....and where you can locate another doctor. I know you must be feeling panicky---but please call them right away!!!

And you valium detox seems too fast, as well. I just don't understand these doctors--none of them seems to want to get involved! As for the doctor "shooting you those e-mails"--I've never heard of anything so unprofessional in my life! You have to look a patient in the face...SEE what they're suffering. Talk to them back and forth...in PERSON.

Please let us know your next step. TWe know how hard you are trying. love, Lynn xx

 
Old 05-01-2004, 07:10 PM   #4
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy - can you let us know how you are doing?

 
Old 05-01-2004, 09:07 PM   #5
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Unhappy Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

They have me going to this full week (including tomorrow) day program in the midst of w/d and i'm upset for so many reasons. As soon as I have a moment (it gets worse)....

but an example..I just got an E-mail from the doc (I E-mailed him previously 5 times before, short consis, etc.

He writes (after I spoke to him today and he was so friendly and then he writes me this:

Please remove my e-mail address (it's on his cad) from our list. I am not able to porcess email correspondence from patients with the frequency that you want t write. I am not reimbursed for my time or my office staff's time spent handling you multple redundant E-mails, a d as we have been told many times, using the computer is like an alcoholic hanging out in the bar. I addition to the benzo and opiate addictions, it appears you suffer with a computer addiction that prevents you from using the technoloogy appropriately and safely.

(This is actually the DR. taunting me for ordering online...i mean out of nowhere. She's suffering and detoxing why not kick her down and make her feel worse.

THEN, not gonna believe this - I got a hand-written letter from hiim today, giving me instructions of what to do should I want hiim to treat me as a psychiatrist, a, b, c,) and he can get me on the suboxone again!!! But first I needed to do certain things like "write" the company I ordered the valium from (I haven't a clue!).

Earlier today I paged him to change my medication for sleep, and he was so nice and friendly - talked about detox, how long it would take, and said sure to everything I asked him for. And then this??? If I weren't so afraid I'd sue him and his assistant for malpractice but I have to focus on my recovery.

And then my other Dr. (psych) nobody could get a hold of him in the hospital for 3 days! And he made the decision for me to stay on klonopin and disconinue the suboxone when that was NOT my decision.

Now, he's supposed to be back to calling the klonopin in, and nothing is there despite numerous requests. I'm trying to not kill myself, because I feel like it, I really do.

Anyway I should get off this "toxic" addiction that I'm using so inappropriately.

I feel like Imm cooperating with this program (at first I wanted to just leave) but I felt that maybe in the future i would close doors. And I'm detoxing and not very happy, do you know what it's like to be detoxing and trying to get through a 6 hour day?

But, I have to make alot of changes (if I live) and it's obviously therapists. When I got the letter from the doc ... I actually thought about it; ok detox from benzos, stay on suboxone for maintenance. I fear relapse very much.

I came home and slept for 3 hours, I should eat something
I'm so miserable and just can't tell you.

But I can't do anytghing now I'm at this program from 9-4, and I dont like meetings but I don't complain, I talked, dry mouth and all.


 
Old 05-03-2004, 11:59 AM   #6
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy,
I have to say this,your doctor sounds freakin insane.The last email to you was just plain offensive.I don't know what type of insurance you have or any of the logistics,but if I were you,I'd get rid of all of them and make an appointment with someone new.See if you can get some recommendations from the day program you're going to.With the disease you're battling,the comments in that doctor's last email to you was just plain inappropriate.Stick with the program your in,though,and get what you can from it.Meanwhile,I'd inquire about other doctors and therapists that would be able to take you.There seems to be real lack of communication among the ones you have right now,and you don't seem to be getting the best treatment available that you could otherwise be getting.Hang in there Murph,this isn't easy,but you seem pretty tenacious about your therapy,(which is great),I just think some new docs and therapists are in order,ones who will actually care.

God Bless and Take Care,Stacie

 
Old 05-03-2004, 09:01 PM   #7
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Murphy555 HB User
Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
Murphy,
I have to say this,your doctor sounds freakin insane.The last email to you was just plain offensive.I don't know what type of insurance you have or any of the logistics,but if I were you,I'd get rid of all of them and make an appointment with someone new.See if you can get some recommendations from the day program you're going to.With the disease you're battling,the comments in that doctor's last email to you was just plain inappropriate.Stick with the program your in,though,and get what you can from it.Meanwhile,I'd inquire about other doctors and therapists that would be able to take you.There seems to be real lack of communication among the ones you have right now,and you don't seem to be getting the best treatment available that you could otherwise be getting.Hang in there Murph,this isn't easy,but you seem pretty tenacious about your therapy,(which is great),I just think some new docs and therapists are in order,ones who will actually care.

God Bless and Take Care,Stacie
Stacy,
You are 100% right. My Dr. made a decision for me that I did not choose. Berating E-mails from an addictionologist. He recently send me another one and at the end said don't bother E-mailing me back because it could trigger a relapse!

I did anyway saying that my income relied on work with computers and to quit taunting me about my previous source of drugs and as an addictionologist he should be aware that millions of people these days get their drugs from this source. Period. These Drs. think they are god.

One MAKES a decision for me w/o consulting with me and now, as a result I am off the suboxone when I think it is more important to be on it at this point. Then he is late with calling in the very script that is causing all the problems in the first place. I DO take responsibility for my stupidity and making a mistake - but I was honest with the Dr. from the beginning and as we all know relapse is part of addiction.

I AM going to the program, which gets me up early (not used to) and staying all day, not a break since I've been discharged on Thursday. I don't know how many more days my insurance will cover.

But I have to admit, I am not a big fan of the 12 step program. And I'm very resistant to changing alot of things. Today ended badly when a slur was detected in my voice and everyone in the group thought I had taken something (in a caring way) but it's just the clonidine patch which has completely sapped my energy, and my mouth is dry and it is just hard to talk.

And I have to be honest, I just don't care for the 12 step program. I GO right now to be around people because I am very much alone - and that's it, but by the time I get home, I'm so tired. I can only sqeeeze in one message and I saw yours Hope and resonded because it was so correct.

I have to start all over somehow. Bills to pay, etc. with really nooone to help and I can't tell you how tired I am. I guess that's the point to exhaust me. But I will be alone soon anyway. And I fear relapse greatly.

Please Right back Stacie
Murphy

 
Old 05-05-2004, 12:15 AM   #8
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

555...a good friend told me once that my drug problem was the source of all of my other problems and doin the drugs just makes everything worse cuz you do not think logical....your drug issues are for sure whippin up a huge hrricane and tornado in your life that is so uncalled for.....your wrong about the 12 step....not one person has ever not been successfull if they hit the 90 mtgs in 90 days...thats proven success....you need that support from people who have been in recovery a lomg time...you just dont want to quit your benzos and/or suboxone....you should be goin to the 12 step to hear the message of hope in recovery..not that the only thing you got out of it was bein tired....from reading your posts i could see why a doc would have a comment about your emails....recovery doesnt just show up one day and your cured.....the only thing that would put you into relapse is your own fears,which you seem not to control feelins too well...i dont think you know what you really want...one day its off subox,nows its a bad idea,next day its off valium,you go to the clinic and boom you cant take it anymore and you were just sittin waitin to be seen...throw awaay all your drugs and deal with the w/d's...i also think you only here and listen to what you want to and if not then its everyone elses fault or you find to put the blame anywhere but where it lies......i hope god blesses you and shows you that there is a good life out there waitin for you,but no one but you can open the door and walkin...chef

 
Old 05-05-2004, 09:16 PM   #9
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Murphy555 HB User
Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Good advice chef, and alot of what you said it very true. I have to work through my own demons.

However, I just do not believe in the 90-day 12 step meeting stuff. It has helped many peopl, yes, but the statistics show that the relapse rate is just as high as people making different choices.

I made the choice of wanting to stay on suboxone and I never felt as normal in my life. I made a big mistake and I don't think I should have to pay for when I was doing so well emotionally and physically when taking the suboxone. And, I'm going to try again.

Meanwhile, I'm following the rules and the program, but I gotta be honest, I think it's cult-like and not for everybody. If you have benefited from it, congratulations. I do not happen to believe in that way.

Murphy

 
Old 05-06-2004, 08:29 AM   #10
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Hope12 HB User
Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy,
You sound so good today.I have to tell you,athough I think the 12 step programs are absolutely wonderful,they offer much needed support,Ihaven't gone to meetings or followed the book this time around either.I still recommend them to a lot of people,but for some reason,I just could not get into it.And I tried,attended about 100 meetings,both NA and AA.I don't knock the organization whatsoever,but for some reason,it just wasn't for me.Whatever you find that works for you,then that's what you go with.
I didn't know you were on the clonidine patch-it works wonders.SO,other than that,you're not on anything else??I'm not sure exactly what meds you're all on.Murph,I've pretty much read all your posts,and I can understand the confusion that seems to go on,and can tell you're a pretty sensitive person.Not to mention that in the beginning of recovery,we are all especially sensitive,our emotions are so raw.But today there is a clarity in your posts that I haven't seen for a while,even though maybe you don't feel it yet,but I'm taking that as a wonderful sign.I can see when you are angry and upset,and can tell when you are,you're typing at lightening speed,so I think a lot of people get confused at what you are trying to say.
I know the thought of having to start all over is overwhelming.But I'm right with ya there,because I'm doing the SAME thing.Mountains of bills I have NO clue how I'm going to pay,boring,general life stuff that I haven't dealt with for years.It is a HUGE challenge,but I think you just have to take one thing at time.Slow,slow process,frustrating to those of us who are used to having our wants and needs satisfied IMMEDIATLY(ie,take a pill/drug,30 minutes later,life is great-or so we thought).So one thing,one day at a time.
I know how tired you are,the completely drained feeling. Murphy,it will get better.Each day you come home from your outpatient program,congratulate yourself on the one step closer you've brought yourself to freedom,sobriety.YOU'RE doing that,no on else.This is YOUR work,you are a miracle in progress.You are putting up a VALIANT fight,just put your head down and keep going.Every second of every minute of every day,you are bringing yourself closer to victory.And you are NOT alone.Sure,you may not have someone(human) waiting for you a home,but know that there are people in this world who are thinking about you,and wondering how you are today.And quite a few are right here on this board. I want you to succeed in this.I want you to cram your success right down your psychotic doctors and therapists throat(but in a NICE way-hehe).I'm going to have to stop typing because my keyboard is sticking and driving me freakin insane-but,I want you to know,that you DO have the power inside you to beat this disease,to show everyone just what you're capable of.Don't fear relapse,embrace it, get to know it,it IS a part of recovery.Then work your way around it.Recognize the warning signs of relapse,and deal with each issue singlehandedly,one issue at a time.HALT-Hungry,Angry,Lonely,Tired-four things that can set you up for a relapse,recognize them,and treat each one accordingly.Take care of yourself first above everything,and you'll soon start seeing other things start falling into place,slowly,but surely.I will write more later,after I beat my keyboard against the wall about a hundred times.Take it easy,take care,

Peace and strength,Stacie

 
Old 05-06-2004, 07:27 PM   #11
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Stacie,

What a beautiful post.

Thank you; it sounds like you know me or something or you are just pain old understanding and inspirational.

Long days these days .....it's hard, you know the lonely, hunger, etc. part -- I'm too fatigued to deal with very much. In some ways I'm lucky to be able to get home and collapse.

On the other hand I start craving badly, especially now, and I really don't know if I can get to that other side. I'm still trying.

Today, some nurse told me there was a Dr. who would prescribe suboxone, but I would have to get off klonopin, which is just confusing and scary because when you take something for 10 years and it has no adverse affects, and I never abused this one, I have to wonder why? If only I had no t made the mistake I made.

Someone suggested I aplogize to the current doc and say I'll do this & that but his E-mails and hand-written solicitation of how I could get on suboxone through him again was very inapprpriate and unethical.

I have a few decisions to make, I wish I had more strength to continue writing but I swear and I feel too tired and have been vertical all day.


Stacie ((())))thank you Please continue writing, your posts really help me.
Murphy

 
Old 05-07-2004, 04:02 AM   #12
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Banker HB User
Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy - just wanted you to know I've been going through a severe depression too. One thing is... there really isn't a difference between klonopin and valium. They may give you a different feeling but they are both benzos so they might be scared of the abuse potential again. At least, I would think. Have you been looking for another Sub doc? I, personally would think that if any doc knew about your addiction to valium, they would NOT put you back on klonpin. Trust me, you are talking to the queen of needing a benzo. Take care of yourself. Going to get ready so I won't be chronically late AGAIN. Hugs... Bye!

 
Old 05-07-2004, 10:25 PM   #13
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Murphy555 HB User
Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banker
Murphy - just wanted you to know I've been going through a severe depression too. One thing is... there really isn't a difference between klonopin and valium. They may give you a different feeling but they are both benzos so they might be scared of the abuse potential again. At least, I would think. Have you been looking for another Sub doc? I, personally would think that if any doc knew about your addiction to valium, they would NOT put you back on klonpin. Trust me, you are talking to the queen of needing a benzo. Take care of yourself. Going to get ready so I won't be chronically late AGAIN. Hugs... Bye!
Banker,
I may be given another chance. i have been diligently working the program and finally beginning to get out of the trance that the clonidine patch puts me in, when going through detox. My emotions are suddenly coming to the surface and I just cry and let it out. I think of my parents who are now gone, and the last person I let in my life. It's painful to cry, but healthy. So, yes, the depression is very hard and well I suppose I have to decide whether I want to get busy living or dieing again.

The head nurse put me in touch with a Dr. I heard a lot about and I spoke with him today for 10 minutes and he was such a nice man/person. He told me that he would subscribe suboxone to me, but that first I would need to be detoxed from the "klonopin" I had been taking the last 10 years. I expressed my fears about that, however, he was under the false impression that I was taking 8 mg/day which is not correct...that I only take 1 mg at night for a looong time. He said, in that case, it would not be a problem for him. I was surprised and it gave me renewed hope.

I'm not addicted to "valium" - I did a stupid thing that I believe was fueled by depression and the circumstances of my life and took a large quantity in 3 weeks. Now I'm back to taking 1 mg klonopin/day. IMO, there IS a difference between addiction and dependence. Yes, I have a dependency on the klonopin based on long term use of a small amount, but I've never abused them or drug-seeked them, etc.

I haven't even had a valium in 20 years (when I was 20?). However, I was advised to fire my current Dr. and switch to this Dr. He's a compassionate person; he gave me a hug after we talked and I plan to pursue it and ask for another chance.

Altho I'm clean right now, as far as opiates go, my body is screaming for them. I know it takes time, but I've relapsed so much, that I'm tired of struggling with it. When I was following the Drs. orders and taking the suboxone and klonopin (w/o the valium mistake)..I felt my depression lift and even thought of going back to work if I could. I felt normal.

I just want another chance and he can kick me to the curb if I ever do something so destructive and stupid as what I did with the valium. I believe I was just crying out for help.

Getting stronger, but still fearing relapse.

Murphy

 
Old 05-08-2004, 04:43 AM   #14
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Murphy - you didn't do something stupid. You WERE desperate and needed an escape. We've all been there and I've been there recently. I'm SO glad you've found this new doctor and he's going to help you. I wanted to ask AGAIN (sorry for bugging you about this) but tell me about the withdrawals from Suboxone. How are they? I realize you are on the patch but do you have the classic wd symptoms of opiate or is it different? It's disheartening to hear that you are craving so badly for opiates.

I honestly believed in my mind that after a while of Sub, I could wean off and then just feel as normal as I do today while taking it. (as far as no cravings) but who's the stupid one for thinking that way? ME! I want off of Suboxone. I'm seriously considering starting a taper. I can't seem to find a good antidepressant that works well with it because I get so damn tired combining the two. I want to BE NORMAL! I want to ONLY have to take an antidepressant and a benzo... that's all. I just don't want to take Sub anymore. I am starting to have these side effects that are tough as crap. Literally.... I can't go take a poop for weeks at a time. I gained 15 lbs in a two week period from binge eating (from the Sub) and then not going to the bathroom. Seriously, I weighed 160 at the doc yesterday. I weighed 160 when I was 7 mo preg w/my children. 160!!!!! I just weighed this a.m. and literally lost 5 lbs from yesterday to today because I'm taking major fiber and laxatives. I'm going to get colon cancer if this bathroom situation continues.

I'm tired of being fat. I'm tired of being depressed and I'm tired of being hungry all of the time from the Suboxone. I'm tired of feeling so sleepy at nighttime. I started Wellbutrin again yesterday (got off of Lexepro) and last night a friend called and I don't even remember talking to her... I just remember slurring my words terribly and telling her I was getting off of the phone. It's AWFUL! For some reason, the Wellbutrin and the Sub aren't mixing w/me and I think Wellbutrin is what I need to fight this depression......... WHAT TO DO??????????

And I'm very happy that this new doc is going to help you. Sounds like you are able to communicate exactly what you need and it's working. K - one more time... or one more question... What does this patch do to you? I know sleepy but HOW sleepy? Could someone work while being on it ? Can you drive while being on it? I'm scared...

 
Old 05-08-2004, 08:18 PM   #15
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Re: From Valium Detox to Suboxone Detox

Banker:
but tell me about the withdrawals from Suboxone. How are they? I realize you are on the patch but do you have the classic wd symptoms of opiate or is it different? It's disheartening to hear that you are craving so badly for opiates.

All I know Banker, is that the detox protocol was exactly the same as it was with vicodin in the past. I was inpatient hospital for 3 days; and it was basically the same as withdrawing from the hydros. The patch really helps me, because, for 3 days or so, I just was so out of of it and tired, that I didn't suffer the acute withdrawals at all. It lowers your blood pressure but also has something to do with receptors that reduce w/d symptoms, I forgot the explanation. For me, my blood pressure is low to begin with - so NO, I was out of it; and it lasts a week. In fact, towards the end of the week, in a group or something, I would talk and people thought I was using. Not true, the patch was still making me very groggy and by day 7 I got frustrated because of it and took it off. It was only then that I began to feel the residual feelings of w/d. Not feeling normal in your skin, twitching here and there, but nothing really TOO hard. I thought I was going to be detoxed from all the valium I took in some different way, but of course when I got there, I was told they were taking me off of both. But as far as I know, it was exactly the same. I was also given "klonopin" still 1 at night because that still is my normal dose, and one night a nurse gave me doxepim for sleep and I lost a day because I woke up in my clothes at 10 PM thinking it was 10 AM. I suppose my body/mind was exhausted.

I'm going every day day treatment, just listening to what they tell me to do, but yes - unfortunately, I still "crave" very badly. In fact, tonight, I knew I had put some darvocets away, sort of hid them from myself a long time ago; and I came home and just started searching for them. I can't find them! So maybe that is for the best. Darvocets is where I started.

That is why I'm hoping the new Dr. will consider putting me on suboxone once again. But I will have to be honest with him about the valium incident, and after hearing that or seeing that on my chart, he may change his mind. That, I don't know yet.

Why do you want off the suboxone? If it were me, I would want to take it for the rest of my life as seeing a bottle of vicodins didn't even tempt me. I didn't have the same side effects as you did (everybody is different). All I felt is what Banker often says that it saved my life. It's a treatment for some. I know I know it's another crutch, but for me, I honestly don't feel I can make it to the other side and feel "Normal". And that is unsettling to me.

I never thought I'd ever think about long-term maintenance on anything, always shyed away from methadone, but when suboxone got approved and I heard such positive things about it, I got curious. In fact, the last time I was at that hospital, I was "detoxed" with suboxone. I was fearful, but after 1 2mg pill, no withdrawals and I was amazed. It made me feel "normal".

Keep on writing, let me know how you are doing.

Murphy

 
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Out of Detox-on Suboxone positive03 Family & Friends of Addicts and Alcoholics 11 04-02-2007 04:40 AM
Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info? TrampyG Addiction & Recovery 11 02-21-2006 10:29 AM
Fresh out of detox and on Suboxone... sneddog Addiction & Recovery 5 05-25-2005 11:16 AM




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