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Old 05-19-2004, 07:33 AM   #1
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John 808 HB User
To GreyMatter!!!!

Hey there!

Haven't heard from you in awhile? How are things going for you? Still struggling?

I have an appointment with an additionologist next Wednesday and I am so excited. I am more than ever ready to re-claim my life! I actually deleted posts from former OP's yesterday telling me that it was time for my refill....ugh! I wish they would leave me alone! I need to call them and threaten to sue them if they continue to "selecit drugs" to me! LOL!

When you get a chance, let me know what is going on with you- K?

Take care and God bless,
michelle

 
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:57 PM   #2
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Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

hey michelle. thanks for the note! i'm not really struggling - just going day to day, but staying sober. have been for a looooooong time, but not a year just yet. congrats on seeing an addictionologist. that is one more step in recovery.

i've discovered that the more people you have supporting you, the less chance you have of falling back into using. sounds like a pretty basic concept, but i guess it took a while for me to figure out. it's still amazing to me how some people - not just on this board, although that is definately prevelant here - think addiction is about willpower and people can just get and stay sober if they try hard enough.
so you were/are on sub, right?
it seems that has worked for some people here while others seem to be having just as many problems with it. then again, i never went down that path so i can only hope that if you did, it worked out well.
i agree with you about the availability of drugs. that was one of my problems at first w/ Happy Father - R.I.P.

in the beginning he, and i can see why even though i just happened to think it was inappropriate, seemed to talk way to much about how easy it was for him to get narcs delivered right to his door. if i knew then what i know now - i wouldn't have been upset and just ignored his posts, i would've tried to say something. anything. but i really don't know more about his situation to comment other than what i just wrote and learning of what happened was like being punched in the gut.
hopefully, somehow, the easy access to all these pills that so many who have a keyboard use, will stop.

i really hope that you continue to grind away - i know it is hard but that is life at times with or without drugs. this is going to sound kind of clinical but most of us on here have used or are using drugs to regulate our emotions - to feel good. when you ditch the drugs - especially after years of abuse like me - you have to re-learn how to regulate your emotions on your own. that often means bouts with depression and anxiety. with many people luckily the more practice you have, the easier it becomes.

so keep that in mind as you fight on. and good luck with your appointment.
thanks for supporting me on here like you have for so long. i admire your determination and faith - even as i choose to walk a different path i can see yours and i'm waving

...i can't believe i just used one of those smiles.

grey

 
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:17 PM   #3
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John 808 HB User
Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

Yeah, isn't it funny how all the women's post have the little faces all over them and none of the guys use them! LOL! I won't let you live that one down.....

I did try the sub route and for a couple of weeks I thought it was God's gift to addicts but then I began hearing stories of how difficult it was going to be to come off and how little is known about it and the short and more importantly long term side affects of it and I dropped my dose pretty quick and then started craving like crazy and eventually gave in and used hydros again for awhile. I am using pinches of the sub here and there though because I am out of hydros and can't function in withdrawals and take care of a house and family. Just trying to hold out until next Wednesday. Interesting, too, is that when I told this doctor I had been on the sub he said he wanted me off of it ASAP and we would work some type of taper using Ultram probably (which is fine with me, b/c Ultram does nothing for me?).

I have thought about the pills alot today and could have ordered through an OP and didn't! YEAH!! I really need to get off this roller coaster ride- ya know? The more I really, really think about, how much longer would I really live? I mean a 5'4", 115 pound woman cannot medically live very long taking 30 hydros a day- I used to think that nothing like that would ever happen to me but then Happy Father may have thought the same thing and look what happened....it could and would eventually happen to me! Reality is hitting me....finally!

Well, good to hear from you! Don't be a stranger- K? I may need some advice here and there- I'll admit I do have some very "weak moments" and it takes all I can do (with a little, no, alot of help from God) to keep my nose out of the mud! I still haven't found an AA or NA group that I "click" with or even like for that matter....need to keep looking!

Anyway, bedtime for this worn out woman! Hope to talk soon,
michelle

 
Old 05-19-2004, 09:24 PM   #4
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Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by greymatter
it's still amazing to me how some people - not just on this board, although that is definately prevelant here - think addiction is about willpower and people can just get and stay sober if they try hard enough.
Greymatter, I've never spoken to you here, but congratulations on your sobriety. What you said above caught my interest, but I am not certain as to your point. I can tell you, in my case, my will to stop killing myself with Lortab was instrumental in my getting clean. It took a lot of willpower to cold turkey a 30 per day habit. To me, willpower is about making a choice and seeing it through, as it is a difficult task. We chose to take drugs. I think some personal responsibility is a requisite of getting clean, and staying clean is a choice that takes enormous willpower every day. So I guess I am one of those people. Forgive me if I misinterpreted what you said.

Last edited by User 205000; 05-19-2004 at 09:25 PM.

 
Old 05-19-2004, 10:11 PM   #5
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greymatter HB User
Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

i think we have spoken actually. my point? i'm not sure as to how i can make it any clearer so that you will agree with it, because it sounds as if your mind is made up already, but i will try. if you can just stop taking drugs when you want - cold turkey - and NEVER go back - you were not addicted. even if you felt withdrawals - that is physical dependency which is a whole other issue.
if you are an addict you can't stop, even if you want to. will power on it's own may work for a few months, maybe even longer, but you will always go back to something and it may be another drug or way of escaping life such as sexual addiction. sure it takes will power to go cold turkey, i have done that more times than i can count from just as much as you stated you were taking. but withdrawing from a drug and staying sober are two entirely different things. for an addict to truely STOP, he or she needs help/support and there really is only one proven method of that - a 12 step program.

we may initially choose to take drugs, but we do not choose to become addicts - our brain does. this is just a suggestion, but if you want to do some research as i have, i can recommend several books on the way the addicts brain is different than a normal brain. sure an addict can choose when to have the desire to become sober, but he or she needs help to stay that way and often just to get there. i fought a 4-5 year battle with drugs like vicodin, oc and h before i understood that i could get off them as many times as i would like but i would always go back until i got support. i certainly don't think getting help makes me any less sober today.

are you in a program? if you are not i also, and again this is just a suggestion, invite you to visit one or two and bring up this topic with the group. i think you would be surprised by the responses you got.

i doubt i have convinced you of anything, other than the ideas you already had, but whatever works for you - as long as you stay sober - is all that matters. my opinion as a bottom line... addicts can want to change their lifestyle as much as possible, but they need help doing so and staying that way. addiction is a disease, and it's only cure is constant treatment. wanting to stay sober is a necessity, but too many have tried and failed at just 'wanting' for it to be enough.

just some of what i have learned in coming to understand i am an addict.

good luck in your journey.

 
Old 05-20-2004, 12:01 AM   #6
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Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

Grey, I didn't ask you to convince me, but to simply clarify what you meant, and you did. I understand what you are saying now. As I think about it, I am not certain if I am an addict or physically dependent. I took the Lortab for chronic back pain (degenerated discs, scoliosis, sciatica and stenosis), and had to take increasingly larger amounts as my body became used to it. However, since the prescribed amount was never enough to treat the pain, I had to resort to "addict-like" activities to get the medication I needed. I never took it for euphoric reasons. Hydrocodone was the only drug I became dependent on. I never really thought of it in the way you describe, but it is certainly an interesting distinction. To answer your question, I do not attend a program, because I don't personally accept the premise that I am powerless to control my behavior, I don't accept that notion that my life is uncontrollable, and I don't believe a "higher power" can restore my life (only I can do that). I hold no negative opinion of the good of the program for some, nor those who attend.

Thank you for your explanation, and I wish you luck on your journey, as well.

 
Old 05-20-2004, 12:53 AM   #7
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greymatter HB User
Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

I'm glad my comments were of some help. Please excuse my comments about trying to convince you, I just have noticed that not unlike the real world itself, no matter what you say you experienced or have thoughts on, people on this board will usually believe what they want to.

And that is fine. I would just hate to see ANYBODY, go down the same road if comments on my experiences could be of some help. I had a hunch you did not take your doses of Hydrocodone for eurphoric effects, but if you don't feel an unstopable urge, often seen as an an obsession with getting back on the drug - or anything that will give you a buzz of some sort - just to get that feeling, even if you have trouble believing in anything to pray to (which unlike michelle (John 3:16), i do as well), pray - or at least thank something or someone you don't.

That is the definition of an addict. Someone who will continue to do engage in a behavior - and cannot stop even if they want - that begins to hurt them in a negative manner i.e. health or legal problems, financial problems (seen predominately in gambling addiction), the destruction of relationships, etc...

I hope that you find a way to fight the chronic pain you are having without resorting to narcotics, but you must be the judge of that.

And I also hope that if you find your way back to a Lortab just for the feeling it gives you, and not to fight the pain, you maybe could examine your choice a little more closely and, if needed, look into getting help before it snowballs and takes away years of your life. Congrats on your new job, and accomplishments in getting off of Lortab. I know withdrawals are hell and if will power is what is keeping you going and sober, than by all means, dive in head first.

But again, if you find yourself back, and for all the wrong reasons, believe in will power all you want, but also please get help and support. Or at least consider it. However due to your comments, and unless proven otherwise, chemically dependant seemed to be the problem and now that you are free from Hydros, I am thinking you should be fine.

I wish you luck with your chronic condition. And thanks for the kind words, they meant a lot.


grey

 
Old 05-20-2004, 07:55 AM   #8
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Re: To GreyMatter!!!!

Grey, good advice, and I hear you loud and clear. And, yes, I do realize this is a chronic condition. Take care.

 
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