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Old 05-27-2004, 05:08 AM   #1
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michelle???My belle...

Hi mich-
Just wondering what happened w/ the sub doc..
I was reading some of your posts recently-and i can really sense your frustration and pain-...Lady..i do totally understand-and i will be completely honest-if i wasn't on the sub i don't think iid be off the drugs right now.
You described you life like a rollercoaster-i know that feeling all too well-i really felt like my life was reduced-to getting/doing/thinking only of drugs..
Ive seen so much/felt so much pain-torn apart by wanting to do drugs-couldn't get off that rollercoaster...
I guess i wanted to say-you are not alone-as you know-this board says it all-we are all struggling to get better/and help each other-all in differant places emotionally-but still we all know that pull-those cravings-and the relief we get w/ opiates.And-we also know the depression/alienation/despair and hopelessness to be caught in the web.
I guess i just wanted to let you know-that i understand-you are trying very hard to get things going-for yourself/family/etc..even so i know you are still battling the cravings/need to use.
I really believe if you just go w/ the sub therapy-and really put the pills down-and go w/ it-you'll find you don't need the vikes anymore.
Its the going back/forth and relapsing while doing the sub-that really works against it.
When i did the sub-but also used(relapsed)-it really messed me up-esp. w/ percs/vikes-it made me crazed.
You just gotta do the sub-and you should really try therapy-i know-i always suggest that-but ill tell you-this last couple years i really have come to terms w/ some very heavy issues in my life-the ones that led me to low self image/and depression-and ultimately addiction.Cos we don't use drugs cos everythings great!Enhancement?maybe-more like blocking out reality/pain-etc.
It really is changing me-that i feel like there is hope-like i don't really want to get all messed up again-im learning to care about myself...something i never did-i hated myself...
I just wanted to let you know-i care about whats happening to you-and we are all a work in progress.
I think this program can really help you-just really make a commitment to it-and you'll see the benefits-no more rollercoaster.
Much love-and God bless
Heather

 
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Old 05-27-2004, 05:37 AM   #2
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Re: michelle???My belle...

What a lovely letter for Michelle to open this morning! You explain so well the "roller coaster" vs. "the relief". I often wonder if some of my mental state, which can feel so "relieved" by pills, is actually CAUSED by them!!! Anyway, you have done so much to make your life better. I hope you've given yourself an "A++"!! :-)

 
Old 05-27-2004, 09:35 AM   #3
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Wink Re: michelle???My belle...

Thanks Heather!

It is so weird how you wrote about the sub and what this addicitionologist said about the sub????

I am a little reluctant to even share this with you b/c you are on it, but I think you are strong and secure enough in your decision to be on the sub, so here goes....

He said (mind you, this guy is a former cocaine addict, opiate addict, benzo addict, alcholic) that he WILL NOT prescribe the sub. He was on the bup injection form (like Chef was) when he was trying to recover and he said it just made things worse. He said, "Why put an opiate addict on another opiate to get clean? The sub is a long acting opiate the "clings" to your brain receptors like "mud." It "saturates" the brain and makes it all the more difficult for the addict in the long run. Much less, the little know long term side effects." I was just sitting there in silence- like, wow, okay...so, where do we go from here?

Basically, he is detoxing me at home using what I am already on- Lexapro and Xanax and he added Neurontin for stabilizing my moods and enhancing the Lexapro for depression and added Provigal (a stimulant) for energy and battling the lethargy. I will call him in one week and see him in two weeks. Now, I took my last sub tablet Tuesday night so it is out of my sytsem I think and I took everything he told me to and that stimulant has me "just fine." No lethargy, blahs, feel like I can clean, take care of children, etc., but a little "reved up" feeling (like I have had too much coffee??)???? But, I would rather feel this way than the over-whelming feeling of not being able to do anything and blah, ya know? He said that is the worst problem for sub detoxers is that it is not as intense as hydro detoxing but it last so much longer and the lethargy and depression often frustrate the patient and they end up using again. He said he has seen too many people come through his office needing help to get off the sub- he said it seems this doctor that put me on it then cut me off is doing that to alot of people and then they come to him for help???

So, there it is. I am okay right now. We'll see how it goes. Thank you so much for asking and for that awesome post. I appreciate your care and concern and hope that you can share your frustrations and concerns with me when your time comes to get off the sub (didn't you tell me your doctor wants to take you off now or soon?).

Thank you again and take care. Hugs,
miche

 
Old 05-27-2004, 05:44 PM   #4
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Hi Michelle,
I am so glad to hear you sounding so happy and positive about your recovery. I truly hope it will all work out for you.
Please don't think I'm trying to "rain on your parade" but one thing here does surprise me, why is your Dr allowing you to take Xanax. I understand you may not need to take it, but I know my Dr will not prescribe it or for that matter any other medication that is addictive to any of his patients that have an "addiction issue". I would like to say I am NOT trashing anyone who may need to take it because sometimes I think I
would like to have one. (Maybe I'm just jealous) ha ha
I know you are very careful with the Xanax and only take it as needed but I know we all start out by taking it "only" as prescribed.

I hear my little one's screaming so I'll be back later.
Sammi

 
Old 05-27-2004, 07:15 PM   #5
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Sammi,

I was actually suprised myself that he okayed that, because he is a benzo addict.

I have been on them for about two years and my dose just slowly decreases. Granted, I will take one tonight which I usually never do, but, being in sub withdrawals and the whole insomnia thing AND and having to wake up to 3 little ones- hopefully that'll help me sleep a couple of hours or so.

Like I said in the earlier post, he said if I have taken them that long and after we discussed why and when I use the Xanax, he said he didn't see any addition problems there. It is a little odd being that they are so addictive but I usually hate the way the make me feel unless I am having some real anxiety issues or panic attack in which they just make me feel "normal." Oh well?

Doing okay- had a pretty big panic attack when the withdrawals set in ( I could "feel them coming.") and I called my doctor and by the time he called me back I had "worked through it." He said that is how sub withdrawals work sometimes- in "waves." They can come and go and be intense or mild. He said to be prepared for this for a couple of weeks!

Thank you for checking on me- how are things with you? Where are you now? Love to hear from you!

M

 
Old 05-27-2004, 07:22 PM   #6
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Michelle what are the sub w/d's like? Husband has be off three days now. He's just tired, blah and basically feels like crap-the same as he is on the sub.
Shemac

 
Old 05-27-2004, 07:34 PM   #7
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Re: michelle???My belle...

They hit me this afternoon- I could "feel them coming." I freaked, too!

This afternoon, I started getting the sweats and the shakes. I also felt like I was about to vomit- VERY NAUSEOUS! (I do that in withdrawals though- most don't.) I had pretty good energy this morning (the doctor gave me a stimulant for one week) but by this afternoon, I felt "blah." When I "freaked out" about the withdrawals (b/c I had to go to a graduation program- no getting out of it) I called my doctor. When he called me back (2 hours later), I had worked through the anxiety pretty much but explained everything to him and he instructed me to take another stimulant (Provigal). I was okay after that.

He said sub withdrawals will come in waves for some people (and it does with me). You'll have a bout of them and then be okay for awhile. The lethargy and "blahs" are the most lingering and last a good while he said.

I have a pretty good feeling that I won't be sleeping much tonight- he said to take a Xanax, but I will be lucky to get 2-3 hours.

Right now, I am a little sweaty and yawning like a madman!!! Having some tummy trouble (LOL) and shakes here and there- that's about it! (Enough to not feel horrible but very annoying and uncomfortable.)

Hope that helped some????
M

 
Old 05-27-2004, 07:42 PM   #8
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Re: michelle???My belle...

It did help, how long were you off the sub when this (sick feeling) started? Thanks, promise no more ?'s tonight Shemac

 
Old 05-27-2004, 08:07 PM   #9
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Hey Michelle,
Sorry to hear about the w/d's. I know it sucks to be going through them and still have to take care of three little one's PLUS house work and etc. Just hang in there. You know things will get better. They have to, right?
I know this will sound crazy, but just KEEP telling yourself it's not that bad. I know easier said than done! Occasionally I will have a panic attack and I will just say to myself it's not that bad, it's all in my head. I know we can sometimes set ourselves up for failure and by the time whatever it is that you're going through happens you've already made it worse than it should be. So my point is just keep telling yourself w/d's are not that bad and you're going to get throught it. LOL

As far myself, we just moved into a new house so between meeting with the decorator and getting through the end of school has kept me busy. I am also still seeing my addictionologist every three weeks. I feel so lucky to have him as my Dr. He is one of the few that actually listens and truly cares. I spend at LEAST 30mins with him everytime I go. I am currently taking 2-2mgs in the morning. I guess with the move and just normal stresses of life I started craving Norco's about two weeks ago and I called him to let him know so he had me come in that day and talk with him and then I went again last week just to talk being he is also a psych. and I got through it with no additional meds. (Even though I wish he would have given me something to take the "edge" off). I think PMS had a lot to do with it. I am begging my gyn for a hysterectomy.

Well, I better get off of here and put the little one's to bed. Hang in there girl, you're going to get through this. You sound so much happier these days.

Take care,
Sammi

 
Old 05-28-2004, 04:43 AM   #10
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Mich-
Sounds like this dr. is gonna be a great support to you-i agree-and i know im in for it-w/ the w/ds-im gonna try the provigal too-cos the lethagy/blahs-you speak of-always precipatate relapse..for me.Im scared-but i appreciate the info so much.That just reinforces my commitment to getting in better shape-physically-and sticking w/ my therapy.
What we have to go thru...i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy..
You do sound much better-and you are on the road to recovery...im am sincerely happy for you-its gonna be tough-but you can vent freely here..i will listen..promise.
And as i get off the sub-i pray-you'll have my back too-cos im gonna be a raving lunatic..lol..
Seriously-im dead scared-but maybe by the time it all goes down-ill be stronger physically/mentally to deal w/ it-and not relapse.
I will send you a prayer today-in my morning prayer...
love/peace-
heather

 
Old 05-28-2004, 05:36 AM   #11
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Hey michelle, just had to say that for the first time in a loooong time i am sensing "hope" in your posts.i really think that you have finally found that 'place' where you really need to be.I am just thrilled for you, really.You have been through so much and really deserve some happiness and "peace".Just keep doin what the nice Dr tells you to do,okay?

Hey sadsister.Just hang in there,and this too shall pass.You are a very strong woman who knows what she wants and needs to do.You will get through the tough spots and come out the other side much happier and content.we are all here for ya, you KNOW that.take care and as that good old saying goes, just do it one day at a time.sounds like you are on the right track. take care,both of you. marcia

 
Old 05-28-2004, 06:35 AM   #12
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Heather,

Just wanted to drop this to you- the sweats, chills, shakes, etc. are not nearly as intense as hydro withdrawal (that may be due to the meds he gave me?). The problem with sub withdrawal (according to him and I can vouche as I tried to quit the sub on my own about 3 times) is the lingering lethargy and "blahs." And yes, that is why I went back every time. But, I swear this Provigal is working wonders!!!!! Please try to get some when it is your time. I actually feel okay- in fact, going to take the kids to the pool (in withdrawals...LOL)!

This morning, I have a headache and still yawning like nobody's business but that is about it so far!

I know you can do it! And don't worry until you have to, k? And yes, I'll have your back and everything else, too!
miche

 
Old 05-28-2004, 07:42 AM   #13
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Keep going, Michelle...you are right on track to get your life back, and it is worth it, trust me. You will be so happy to end this crazy cycle. I'm proud of you.

 
Old 05-28-2004, 02:37 PM   #14
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Thanks User- hope this finds you well!

Have a good Memorial Day weekend!

michelle

 
Old 05-28-2004, 03:20 PM   #15
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Re: michelle???My belle...

Hi Heather, I haven't posted to you in a while. Hope things are going well for you. I do have a quick question, why is your Dr taking you off of the Sub? Does he just think that you're ready? From your post, I take it that you're not ready to come off. Is there anyway you can go to another Dr?
My Dr has told me when I'm ready to come off just do it slowly and yes, you will have some w/d's, but it definitely won't be as bad as coming off of hydro's. He told me just last week that he had a patient that came off of Sub about a month ago and her w/d's only lasted a week. I understand everyone's w/d's are different, but if I were you, don't set yourself up for a rough road ahead. Just keep telling yourself it's not going to be bad. Think positively.
I think I'm going to stay on Sub for another two months then start weening off. Although my back specialist has told me if I don't have back surgery within two months of coming off of the Sub he wants me to get back on it since the Sub along with accupuncture and massages have given me great relief. The Dr doesn't want me taking lots of tylenol and advil since daily usage of those two aren't good for you either.
Just hang in there girl and just keep telling yourself that the w/d's ARE NOT going to be that bad.

Talk to you soon,
Sammi

 
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