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Old 08-29-2004, 12:23 PM   #1
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To Over

Hi Over! You are so thoughtful to help Fisherman the way you are.... but he is doing great, isn't he? Listen... I need some info since I'm considering stopping as well.... But I need to know how long the physical part lasted... and then give it to me straight... what about the cravings? How bad were they and what did you do about them? Do you mind filling us all in on how you felt after the first two weeks of hell? Thanks Over! I appreciate it more than you know!!!

 
Old 08-29-2004, 12:38 PM   #2
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over HB User
Re: To Over

Hi Banker!

How are you? Why are you considering getting off Sub? Are you considering detoxing from other RXs as well?

For you, quite honestly, I would love to see you in a rehab of some sort away from your kids. From reading all of your postings from the last year and a half, I understand your family's background and your own as well. It would be very good for you to be in a facility that can monitor you for a good 25 days with meetings 3x a day. The Sub WDs are wicked and I would be afraid for you by yourself because you are a wonderful single mother, like I. Its just so hard to care for kids while you are in WDs especially 3 of them!

You have been on Sub for a while and your brain receptors need to get use to being opiate free. It was extremely difficult, but totally DOABLE, in my opinion. I just want you to be cared for hand and foot....

Are you also being the FDA "guinea pig" for Sub? I'm sure they can offer you some free help of some sort.

Where is MIchelle? I'm wondering if she's having a hard time. I'm worried about her.

I hope this helps a little. I will always be here for you if you need me. Just post. I will try to check in more often.


Take care. Love from Cali

Last edited by over; 08-29-2004 at 12:39 PM.

 
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Old 08-29-2004, 01:25 PM   #3
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Re: To Over

Banker,

I agree with Over completly. She has been a lifeline for me. It is going to be hard because I do want you to know that. Please read my post to you on the crashed thread I started. If I would have had the option I would have done it through a treatment center but somehow I think you would be like me , it could cause job troubles.

I have went through the last hardest 11 days of my life without anything greater than maybe mowing the grass. You with the little ones to take care of would be such extreme stress.

If I get lucky and by the grace of God, make it through this with the ritalin. It might be a option for you. It has given me so much energy today that I feel completely different. It is still bad but nothing compared to me crying my eyes out this morning. I looked in the mirror this morning and saw this 42 year old man with a what my daughter called a tight mohawk hairdo and my gotee has turned into a three day beard. what a sight.LOL The song Old Hippie came to mind. My hair is not gray yet but I am starting to have graying in the beard. I really did not look old..............with the exception of my eyes. They had a burned out look to them. Made me feel old anyway.

Banker,

Real quick about the physical w/d and I bet Over will agree with me. You start out thinking there ia not going to be any w/d but around day 5 they hit pretty hard. I think I tolorated them to day 7 and then went for a clonidine patch with helped with the chills and aches pretty good. So be prepared with that. The physical w/d have not been anything to match the emotional w/ds.
If the physical is all you had to go through it would be a breeze. I took my clonidine patch off today and have had no physical wds.

When do you plan to start your taper? I know you said you have gained weight. I have gained 10lbs in 11 days. I am average build 33" waist and about 170lbs. IT bothers me too as I know have to suck in to put on my jeans but I believe I would rather be a 38" waist and clean. So don't fret the weight. I hade terrible constipation while I was on the Sub, that is one of the reasons i chose to get off.

I will be there for you when it's your turn,
fisherman

edit ps somewhere I gave you bad information. Over did not come straight off of 2mgs she went all the way down to pieces. She is very intellegent and really don't relize the good work she does. I have read her post to me hundreds of times because she puts it into words that just come so real. She is a much better writer than me. I was the math kid, my Freshman College Grammer teacher who actually taught me 10th grade high english, 12th grade english, Freshman Grammer and Sophmore Lit. She new I was a good sport and knew I could take it so at the start of my College Freshman year had us write a short story and asked if she could use my paper for a class example. I was so proud till I found out she wanted to show what not to do. My fragments just killed her. So I started writing like Hemingway. All short sentences. To quit boring you, it turned positive. I graduated College Summa *** Laude and was the Valedictorian of my College class. ....................How could my life get in such a shape. I worked so hard for those degrees and now I am the addict of my graduating class. No Who's Who for me I guess.LOL

Last edited by fisherpard; 08-29-2004 at 02:00 PM.

 
Old 08-29-2004, 02:02 PM   #4
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Re: To Over

Banker ,

Re-read my post, I gave you some false info on Over's taper. I appoligise.

fisherman

 
Old 08-30-2004, 02:00 PM   #5
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Re: To Over

Over,

Just wanted to know if you agreed with me on my relpy to banker....................was it about day 5 for you when physical w/d's hit. I had talked myself into believing there was not going to be any. They were not extremely bad but I did chill a lot and lots of bathroom activities. Hard to sleep. But the clonidine really did help.

How is it in the beautiful state of California today? I think these Tennessee Hill's are going straight into fall. My favorite time of the year. From Knoxville to Chattanooga is the drive of a lifetime. Back in my younger days I was a Civil War reenactor and camped many nights on top of Lookout Mountain at Point Park. What a view? No wonder so many of the old Soldiers had their image struck on lover's leap. They say you can see seven states at that one point.

well i have chated to much,
fisherman

 
Old 08-30-2004, 02:34 PM   #6
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over HB User
Re: To Over

Hi Fisherman,

Oh, Fisherman, I am not a great writer at all. You are much better than I, you're just in WDs and I'm not. In fact, my siblings are professional writers, but I didn't go down that road. I hate math and I love art! I'm so jealous of you for graduating Summa *** Laude.

Yes I agree with you with you on your reply. It was about day 2 that I really started to feel them.

I'm afraid that we scared her off? It is frightening to know that Sub WD are worse than hydros. I do not regret using Sub as a detox method because it surely helped me at that time. I didn't know what to do. I was so scared of the Sub WD also from what other posters had written about them but I didn't care--I was too far gone with my addiction.

Sub WDs are just like hydro WDs except they are twofold. Right, Fisherman? Just longer and worse, but basically the same. I had CT and tapered from Hydros , CT and tapered off Sub as well, WDs were pretty much the same. Except I never got the Restless leg thingy that everybody gets. I suppose because I kept up with my exercise routine while I was heavily using pills.

Banker, did we scare you off? When do you intend to start? We will be here for you! Just don't be scared! Post and let us know!

Southern Calif is always sunny and beautiful. Still is summer--hot. I'm a native Californian and I'm sorry to say that I never been to Knoxville to Chattanooga on a drive. My loss because all we have here is the stupid sun and sand stuff. I have traveled all over the world but I have not seen my own country except for a few states! A sorry American I have become.

Take care.

Last edited by over; 08-31-2004 at 11:25 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2004, 02:57 PM   #7
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Re: To Over

Dear Over,

Thanks for thinking of Banker because I know I have caused her grief. I feel guilty that I was so graphic in some of my posts.

Banker please respond. I will tell you this , I would still choose the suboxone if I had it to go over again. The withdrawels are hard and I kid you not , pick a good time to start them. Two weeks minimum.....You will cry, roll up in a knot, look for a hole, scream, beg when it really gets in the full blown stages. You come to this board and we will talk you right through it. We must pay for our mistakes. It is a due that no one can pay for us. I went in without this concept. My posts prove the point. I should have read these boards and asked questions insteaad of waiting to day 4 and all H*** breaks loose. You will be prepared. I thought I was prepared. I smoked for many years and had decided one day to quit a 2 pack a day habit. Dropped and put one of those patches on and three weeks later I had no cravings. Never even fazed me. That is why the shock hit me so hard that I was crumbling under these pills.

Now the good stuff, The suboxone made me see my wrongs. I started living a life of not having to worry where my next pill was coming from. I took long walks with my wife. I stopped and smelled the flowers. It does work. I would still be in that doctor shopping mode for opiates if not for the Suboxone.

So don't be scared, we will be here for you like you was for me.

fisherman

 
Old 08-30-2004, 08:34 PM   #8
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Re: To Over

I am VERY sorry that I haven't posted. Honestly, I went to a friends house and stayed for a couple of days... NONE of my friends know about me and Sub (well, one did but we no longer talk) but when I'm not by myself or just me and the kids, I cannot come to this site. So please forgive me.

I promise, your honesty is exactly what I need... and I hate to admit it but it makes me want to stay on it longer. The ONLY reason, and I do mean ONLY reason I want to get off is because of my weight. I should not have to take diet pills to be 20 lbs over weight rather than 30 plus! And your right about the bathroom issues, which also causes weight gain... It drives me NUTS!

I will say that I've talked to my doctor about my fears and he continues to tell me that it's 'a piece of cake'... knowing good and well he's either lying... or he hasn't had patients come off of it yet. But he specifically said that if I did have withdrawals, he would give me whatever I needed to get through them... and I believe him because he's the one that has prescribed the diet pills for me. Honestly, does it make sense to prescribe a stimulant to an addict along w/xanax? Now... I guess he knows I've 'seen the light' and will not abuse them but it just doesn't sound right. Therefore, I know that if I do need clonodine (which I will because the chills and the legs are the worst part of withdrawals for me - I can sleep all of the time, but those are the absolute worst), anyway, I believe he will give me whatever I need to get through it. But yes, I will say that for whatever reason, I continue to suffer through the food issue and the stomach problems and continue to postpone coming off of Sub.

Oh, and Over - no way I can go into rehab. Remember... I went through a severe custody battle and if I'm found out ---- that's it.... it will really all be over for me and I will lose my children. I couldn't live without my kids. They are the only reason I was able to pull myself up and get to a doctor for help. Anyway.... Fisherman... you write beautifully so please don't say that about yourself. And listen... and I mean this --- the more graphic, the better. I need the honest to goodness truth!

So - that being said... give it to me straight, Over. Knowing that I cannot go into rehab, what did you experience and for how long... Also, there is something I can do about the kids. I mean, if worse comes to worse (and I wish I would have done this in July) but they are gone for about 2 weeks in the summer... OR... I could do it around Christmas and make the second week of my WDs the week they are gone??? Be honest here... after two weeks... will I be able to function? Let's say I go to the gym and am in good physical condition, can I function after 10 days, two weeks? What is the real deal??? Can you honestly say that it's like hydro withdrawals for more than two straight weeks?

I really, really appreciate you guys more than you know. Fisherman... you sound good and I'm happy for you. I wish I could say that I'm where you are now.... I REALLY wish I could. I just don't know if I have the strength... but I'm also tired of not feeling good about my body.

K - going to bed and again, i'm sorry it took me so long to respond... Take care!

 
Old 08-31-2004, 04:48 AM   #9
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Re: To Over

Banker,

So glad to hear from you. I was worried I had been so graphic that it made you avoid my posts. Believe me it was not my intention. I was just crying for help and I would not in a lifetime believed that so many loving people would come to my rescue.

You are going to need 14 day's minimum to get off the Suboxone. Remember my first post was day 4 and I just thought about ending it all. I wasn't talking about just getting back on the opiates. But then on Day 11 , I posted about crashing.
Instead of going back to the opiates , I added a little Ritalin. It was just enough to get me back in the right frame of mind. Maybe say I needed to re-group. If you work at a Bank, I know the mental stress that goes with the job. That is the extreme hard part. You just can't concetrate. Your mind is dying for that emotional love you have for the drug. You feel like you could just crawl out of your skin. If you only have to deal with the phisical w/d's your Doctor is right , it will be easy. I still on Day 13 Sub and opiate free have crying periods, scream, roll up in a ball and want to die but it is not 24/7 anymore. Sometimes I will get caught up in a conversation and forget my problems for a moment or two.

Don't worry about the weight problem. Far better to be sober. I am saying this as I had a hard time getting in my jeans yesterday. I have gained over 12 lbs since day 1-13. Almost a pound a day. Luckly I am average weight and some have said I look younger. Maybe some of the fat went to my face.LOL

I really don't feel you are ready to come off of it yet. You have your hands full and are finally enjoying life. You will know when the time is right and I am going to talk you thru it. Day by Day. Hour by Hour if need be.

So hang in there my good friend,
you will succeed,
fisherman

 
Old 08-31-2004, 07:32 PM   #10
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Re: To Over

You are so sweet! Thank you for your support... and honestly, and I know it's hard for you to see... but even the thought that you actually 'forget'... even for a moment, is encouraging. I mean, you have to be so close to really reaching that crossroad where you will no longer look back but only ahead. There will actually be a time when you don't have cravings... Can you imagine? I mean, you and I both know you can't 'mess around w/anything'... but you are going to be so happy to be clean, sober and healthy. So, can I get something straight... Are you telling me you have gained weight in the last two weeks? Surely to goodness, I am misreading your post.... Did you gain weight on Sub? You can't be gaining and going through such severe withdrawals. Now I'm worried that you are swelling or something from dehydration... (see... these are the reasons I still take xanax... I will think of the worst possible situation and then think it's going to happen and worry myself to death sometimes). Anyway, pls tell me that you are drinking enough fluids and that you are just eating more??? I know when I'm tired, I eat more because I need that extra energy... plus the carb addict thing... But I'm losing the weight (AGAIN)! So tired of having to fight it. Also... in your honest opinion... do you think there will ever be a good time for me to do this? Today I've only had 8 mgs and I'm having no probs. I have something I'm going to post regarding something I saw that basically just freaked me out... and I think it will be good for everyone to read it, especially those of us who have children. So, be looking out for it. Not sure if I have the energy to type it tonight.... but it will be coming. Thanks again for all of your help. You DO know that I'm just right below you in Al, right? And I'll be honest w/you ---- Bama is my all time favorite team, but I have to cheer for the Vols for other reasons that I can't list here... but I'm sure you get my drift. They are my second fav but when they play each other... better watch out 'cause I forget about my love for 'ole Rocky Top! :-)

We'll talk soon... take care of yourself and be sure you are drinking plenty of fluids...

 
Old 09-01-2004, 05:31 AM   #11
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Re: To Over

Banker,

So glad to hear from you. You did not have me fooled. I could tell by you writing style that you were a Southern girl.

I used to go to Muscle Shoals all the time back when it was the rock recording world of the south. Alabama is a great state and I have many friends there.

I am not drinking the fluids like I should. I have jucied up on caffiene drinks more than good ole water. My weight gain is I am eating all the time to keep the cravings off my mind. As you know the physical w/ds have not been a major problem with me so my tummy is ok. Hey the good thing is I look younger. I have had more than several people tell me that this week. However, I can't keep going a pound a day. I really want to stay in the 34" waist pants and not go over the 185lb mark. I have weighed as much as 210 back in my football days. But I had way more muscle than I do know. The weight was not in my gut.

My posts are not so graphic now. You should be noticing that. That should give you hope.

your southern friend,
fisherman

ps. Not a prettier place than Orange Beach and the white sand of the Gulf Coast. Wished I could go this weekend. It would help my farmer's tan. LOL

 
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