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Old 09-18-2004, 09:29 PM   #1
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ScaredHelpless HB User
Is this a crazy idea?

Once again you guys hellp put things in perspective. I cut back today, I usually chew between 60-80 mg. A DAY!! I can remember when I would only take them on holidays or weekends....I only chewed 40 mg. today and I was cold and hot and tired and strangly inspired, I felt like crap- but in my head I knew for once I was doing something good for myself. But tomorrow is going to be a loooong day for me so I hope I can keep it up.
Hey Lisa thanks for the kind words and great advice. I have never snorted ( thank god) my best friend does and it scares me to much. I know I would love it and then I would be even worse off thanI already am. I have been consider slowly replacing them with loratabs and then detoxing or re-habing, is that a completely crazy idea? It seems so much more "do-able" to me right now. Octomon, thanks for responding and staying by me, I always look forward to your posts and I definetly feel your positive vibes You guys are great I don't see my therapist for another week, I'll do my best on my own until then hopefully I can say something to her. I barely started seeing her. next week will be my second time so....and the idea of diaappointing my family and friends is way to terrifying at this point. I think my therapist is the best plan and myself. Thanks guys.

 
Old 09-19-2004, 12:48 AM   #2
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Re: Is this a crazy idea?

Hey SH,
This is a difficult question to answer. Some docs feel hydro is just fine to taper from. It's definitely much easier than oxy, just be careful of acetometaphin intake [I think Lortabs have this, right?] Anyway the hydro will help immensly with WD symptoms, and don't have nearly the 'grip' that oxy has, but one thing you should remember...the benefit of a drug like suboxone, is it gives you the time to learn to live your daily life without the opiate buzz, and you can stay on it for a while, which is not so safe with anything else. Yes you will have to get off of it eventually, but I have read several success stories here and most people can handle it fine when they taper slowly.

And really you must must remember that a big part of your recovery will be to tackle your 'mental' addiction to opiates, with your therapist, in detox, or however you decide to do it. This will much improve your chances of staying clean - forever. Which is the ultimate prize.

I'm currently under the care of a highly trained acupuncturist/herbalist/Chinese doc to wean me off of everything. I'll keep you and the board posted with my experience, as it is something I haven't seen discussed here yet, and is definitely new territory for me. He is very confident that his treatment will be the best and last I'll ever need. We'll see!

Keep us posted on how you're feeling.

peace,
octomon

 
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Old 09-19-2004, 04:20 AM   #3
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Re: Is this a crazy idea?

SH....getting off of oxy is compared to getting off of heroin. It is one hell of a "jump down" from oxy to vicodin. You gotta start at an amount that is not lethal though, because of the tylenol in loratab. I will rack my brain and try to figure what dosage to start on the loratab, if that is the route you are planning to take. You ARE gonna feel some w/d symptoms switching from oxy to loratab, but hey, that makes you that much closer to your goal...BEING CLEAN!!!! When we used to have oxy binges....we would HAVE to taper with a lower narcotic like vikes, then drop to darvocet after a few weeks then clean and sober It is gonna take some determination. You can do it. I hate to tell you to keep using, but if tapering is the way you want to quit, then give it a shot. If you decide tapering can't be done, then you know your other options are rehab, suboxone, or methadone.
Tapering is hard as hell coming off of oxys, i'm not gonna sugar-coat it for you. You will feel discomfort when you jump down from the oxy to loratab, and then every time you decrease your dosage you will feel some w./d. But nothing like going cold turkey. Oxy is BAD stuff, i really think it should only be used on terminally ill patients. Also, try to stop chewing....just try swallowing for today, that way a dosage will last a lot longer and you will get used to not having that "high" you get when oxy is chewed or snorted. So maybe for today just work on not chewing and get stabilized on a specific amount and then plan your taper from there. The key is to let your body adjust to the taper. Every 5 days or so, drop down again. I can help you with that when the time comes....Philster, is a good one to call upon when a taper schedule is needed too!!! He is FULL of wonderful advice. So try to focus today on swallowing the pill, NO CHEWING
I hope i helped some. Like i said, i know quite a bit about oxycontin. My friend was hooked and i literally thought "this is it, i am never gonna have my friend back" It is gonna be the hardest thing you have ever encountered. But keep you eye on the prize and stay strong and w/in months you will be a new person.
Try to have a good day, hope i didn't ramble too much.
luv,
LISA

 
Old 09-19-2004, 05:27 AM   #4
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Twinlynn HB User
Re: Is this a crazy idea?

Lisa, I had no idea you were familiar with the whole "oxy experience"!! This is coincidental timing---but what's being discussed on this thread is exactly what I am doing right now--tapering down Oxy with Vicodin. (S.H.--I understand how you feel.) My cousin, who shares her extra drugs with me, has no oxys until next weekend...so I have used the Vics. I was given for my foot surgery last week.

When you wrote, Lisa, that it is a huge step down from Oxy to Vic., you answered the exact question I've had. I kept asking myself.."why--even on the Vicodin--does it feel like such heavy withdrawal without the Oxys?" So--now I know. They are waaaay different in strength. I was not aware of that. I kept thinking "how can I still be taking an opiate...and feel so rotten just from switching which kind??" I might as well be doing cold-turkey! (And I still have a few "scraps" of the oxys left.)

I am soooo glad I ran across your post Lisa. I did not imagine how much stronger the oxys were. What in the word is IN them?! I started taking them so innocently (if you can call it "innocent"! But I was not aware of how strong they were)....I took them because my cousin, with very serious pain-control problems, was prescribed them, to replace her Vicodins. So...instead of sharing her Vicodins--I was sharing her oxys. (She always has extras of her painkillers..and offers them to us. That makes me so weak a person...I know.)

I feel terrible. Actually, it's a mercy I'm in bed with this painful, operated-on foot, so I have nowhere I have to go or nothing I have to do. I won't go further on this, as this is S.H.'s thread....but I do want her to know that I can imagine how awful she feels.

Sh - feel better soon!
Lisa - thank you so very much for this important information

Octomon - Please let us know about your doctor's method of treatment--I think the Western medical world has a lot to learn from the rest of the medical world. I know that they see the body and the mind as more integrated--and treat them as such.

best to all, Lynn

 
Old 09-19-2004, 12:03 PM   #5
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Re: Is this a crazy idea?

Wow LOTS of good info up there SH. Yes I'll keep y'all posted with the progress. One thing I should mention, [And SH please don't let this influence your decision whether to try suboxone, it is an amazing life-saver], is that after several months on suboxone, I switched back to Norcos last week to do my taper. Crazy you say? My reason is the short-acting nature of hydro compared to bupe. I'm planning to taper as speedily as possible, and I could not judge my body's 'reaction' to a sub-taper 'action'. It just all seemd very random and frustrated me. I know the hydro feeling SO well - when it hits me, when it's gone.

So long story short: My journey is from oxy to suboxone to hydro to 'nothing' i hope. Maybe I'll be on the suboxone again in a week at a lower dosage if the hydro-taper isn't working. That is also ok with me. At least SH, we can compare the hydro taper experience for a few days.

I'm off to drink my herbal mud....yum yum!

 
Old 09-19-2004, 05:12 PM   #6
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Re: Is this a crazy idea?

[QUOTE=octomon][So long story short: My journey is from oxy to suboxone to hydro to 'nothing' i hope. Maybe I'll be on the suboxone again in a week at a lower dosage if the hydro-taper isn't working. That is also ok with me. At least SH, we can compare the hydro taper experience for a few days.
I'm off to drink my herbal mud....yum yum>>

Thanks SH and Octomon for sharing your stories. One thing I've learned from the wisdom on this Board is that there are no 'absolutes' on the road to healing one's addiction. The field of addiction is, fer shure, a 'work in progress,' and MDs, psychologists, addictionologists, etal, are hacking and hewing thru this journey right along with us! (Those with 'smarts' would do well to listen openly to us addicts....to hear us out as we share our personal stories of what works...be it 'herbal mud' or lortabs or AA or Saliva of the Shih Tzu!

My twin and I are in the same boat, right now....tapering off of Oxys...down to 40mg/day (from 80-120) with Vikes (7.5, 3 or 4/day) and a very small touch of Klonopin to help the withdrawals. (By the way, if you have to go thru addiction, may we advise having a TWIN to do it with you! Not that we would have wished this on each other!!!...but it's like having your own personal AA 'in-house.' Oddly enuf, it took each of us awhile to realize that the other one was in the same sad state of affairs! We both assumed we were still at the 'recreational stage!' Twin Queens of DeNiles!!!! (Or...GASP....'Dead Ringers!' Arggggh!)

We will be following your updates, SH and Octomon. And we'll be kinda 'improvising' as we, ourselves, taper to the best of our abilities. Lynn had a very bad depression today (the 'chemical' kind that puts you in the abysss). Hopefully, it will lift some, tomorrow. I wake up each day about 5-ish...every muscle in my body 'clenched' with tension. There is not one itty bitty place of 'refuge' for me in bed. No 'toss or turn' that will relieve the indescribable grip that withdrawal has on my every body part. A tiny crumb of Oxy and a Vike are the only things that get me out of bed, right now. These scraps at least get my day started....my dogs walked. I had to smile this morning. I looked at one of my Shih Tzu, dozing on the bed....and I envied him. Thought how comfy and safe he looked. So....crazy as it sounds....perhaps that is my 'goal' for the immediate future. To feel as good as my furkids! And when I do, I will give them the BEST walk in the park they've had for years!

TwinAlice (PS. TO DALLAS ALICE: Will be writing more to you, but just wanted to say 'thanks' for your great posts. I can't tell you how much your humor lifts my spirits. What a delight to meet up with a fellow fan of "irony." PPS. TO WICHRIS: I am SO very happy to hear the newfound joy and confidence in your voice. I just know that whatever path you choose to follow, your new spirit will make it a good one!)

 
Old 09-19-2004, 07:01 PM   #7
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Re: Is this a crazy idea?

Wise words Best Friend. Wise words. My addiction therapist keeps emphasizing that 'everyone is different', and that I should not assume that experiences shared here will necessarily apply to me. This may be true, but so far I've found more similarities and quite valid advice than not. And yes there are no 'absolutes', even with an MD-guided detox, especially with a new drug like suboxone, where whether we like it or not, we are test subjects to a large extent, and the experiences we have will be used by physicians to help guide future addicts to successful recovery. In this sense I'm okay with being a guinea-pig, if it can somehow help someone else's path to recovery just a bit smoother.

Can I just say also, that my two dogs [And brand new kitten] are absolutely wonderful, unconditionally loving, withdrawal-soothing, anxiety-reducing, recovery-encouraging, and yes 'supportive' blessings in my life through this, and really make those bad days a lot better! ...I can feel the other pet-owners nodding your heads right now.

 
Old 09-20-2004, 04:53 AM   #8
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Re: Is this a crazy idea?

Just read my twin's (Best Friend) post...and as usual she says what I try to say, but with that little extra (....drat! Can't remember the French expression!!!) :-) But, anyway, yes it is so blessed to have a twin to share life with (I am recently separated from my husband, and my sister and I are in the same building, separate apts.)

And--my two little dogs are always here with me to prove that medication does not always "soothe the soul" so much as a small, warm, floppy-eared head tucked under my chin.....

Like you, Octomon, I am willing to be a gunea pig in the search for a drug like Suboxone that holds out hope for so many of us. I awoke this morning with my depression slighly less crippling, and it made me look ahead to how Suboxone may help reduce this disabling withdrawal depression.

Hope everyone's day is a good one, I see my foot surgeon today, so that will be one more thing I hope is on the way owards healing. :-) Best to all--in all your therapies, Lynn

 
Old 09-21-2004, 12:54 AM   #9
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ScaredHelpless HB User
Wow..You guys are so helpful, Next Question :)

Wow! You guys are so helpful, I truly don't know where I would be without you guys each and everyone brings something different to the "board"! It's amazing what a little support and chatting can do. Lisa you totally answered my next question, you recomend I swallow them whole instead of chewing right now? Then maybe move next week to hydro, THEN...well then I will cross that bridge...one day at a time. I have xanax for the w/d's....
Bestfriend, I have found the best thing to get through the nightly horriable muscle aches and "dancing" legs is to chew even just a sliver...at least it keeps you through the night, that will be the last thing to go for me. Okay tomorrow I will not chew ONE pill I will only swallow two...thats cutting back 20 mg. and not getting the immediate rush. I wish I had the strength right now to just "fess up to everyone and check into rehab...but truthfully its not there yet...I have to try tapering right now its the only thing I can do...I've had a horriable day...but tomorrow the sun rises and I get yet another chance to take control of this....Lisa,Octomon,BestFriend, all of you thank-you so much....Thank you SO much! So here's to NO CHEWING the first step...right?

 
Old 09-21-2004, 03:58 AM   #10
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lisaaahubb HB User
Re: Is this a crazy idea?

RIGHT!!!! NO chewing or snorting oxys today. That is definitely your first step. Then i would drop down the dosage, then to vikes, then to darvocets if you have any.....then just the xanax and immodium for a few days or so of the "flu". The xanax SHOULD counter-act the restless-leg-syndrome. I take xanax at night for sleep and as long as you are NOT trading one addiction for another...you should be fine. Alot here on the board don't agree with using benzos like xanax but i am just telling you what works for "me".....
I am so pleased that i am able to help you. And when the time comes to get totally "clean", i will walk you thru it. It won't be all that bad, trust me, i have w/d 100's of times.
Having the right state of mind while you are going thru this will help immensely!!!!!! Stay focused and strong, tapering is like torture, but it can be done. The lower the dosage you can get your body used to, the easier the w/d. Stay strong and you've got to learn to HATE those pills, they are robbing you of your life and your soul. You will see how bright and clear life is w/out those little devils.
I'm here if you need me, just give me a yell
luv,
LISA

 
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