I'm hoping that anyone who has knowledge about Sub can give me some insight as I have my 2nd appt with the doctor on Friday. And this will be the appt that I actually take my first Sub. I'm kind of nervous but then also very ready to end the ups & downs of hydro. The reason I'm going this route is because I'm so afraid of withdrawals (had them before) and I can't stick with a taper plan due to pain.
Over the past 4 years, I've had numerous surgeries and still have some conditions that are chronic but I'm taking way too many pills and I need to get off them to determine if I really do have pain as bad as I think I do. And even if I do, there's still no reason to take this many pills; I mean, I don't have anything as serious as cancer!
I feel so ashamed that I let myself keep taking more & more...I understand about tolerance but it's pathetic that I can't control myself. I want to feel regular and not depend on pills. I've never gotten myself into any trouble and I've always taken care of my family but I've spent so much money and I don't want to hurt myself health wise.....I want it to stop. No one, but the doctor I saw the other day and any of you that read this, know about my problem.
I just want some reassurance from those of you that have taken Sub or are still on it. My doctor & I have agreed that I will be getting off the Sub as quickly as I'm possible because I just don't want to be on anything anymore. I'm hoping that I will discover that all these pills I've been taking were actually aggravating my condition; and then I will really feel bad about myself!!!
So, again, if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it! I think I did see where someone said to start on a low dose & to only take it once a day so as not to get back in the habit of taking pills all day long...sounds like what I want to do.
Thanks for any help you can offer and I will continue to post my experiences along the way.
Roder I will be the first to say I really feel for you and know EXACTLY how you feel I also have a family and spent a small fortune in the last 2 years.
Anyways my take on Sub after being on it 6 months is dont take a high dose and try not to stay on it very long I am now heading for this battle of getting off this stuff.You get to be a normal person again and see life the way it really is meant to be so dont get me wrong its better than living the hydro life way better but it does have some down sides I guess you would say also.My prayers and thaughts are with you my freind and stay around this board and keep reading it really does help.
Hi Roder and welcome to the boards!! Sorry to meet you under these circumstances but isn't nice to have a place like this board? I know I could not have and probably would not have gotten as far as I have without the people on here. Please don't be too hard on yourself for letting things get out of control. I can honestly say I am disgusted with myself on a daily basis for the same reason, but you're obvisouly going to do something about it and don't look back.
I have been on Sub since March. My Dr who is an addictionologist/physchiatrist started me out on 4mg a day, taking them both at the same time. About three weeks later I started to crave so he increased my dosage to 6mg a day, and again taking them all at the same time. I have done GREAT!! I feel like I have control over my life once again. I too am a chronic pain patient, and I can tell you that Sub does help a lot with the pain. Two and a half weeks ago I started a tapering schedule where my Dr is decreasing my dosage by 1/2 a mg EVERY THREE WEEKS. I truly believe if you do a slow taper w/d's are much more bearable. I will also say that I will not hesitate to stay on Sub if my chronic pain is not controllable. I know every Dr is different so your Dr may start you out on a higher or lower dose. However I don't understand why so many of these Dr's start patient's out on such a high dose. Why not start out on a low dose and your going to know immediately (within a couple of hours) if you need more, but that's just my opinion, I don't want anyone to get mad at me for saying that.
You may want to read the other thread on Suboxone/taper (I think that's the name) and you will get more info. I hope this has helped and please ask if you have more question's because there is always someone on here that will have an answer for you.
Please keep me posted and good luck...Congratulations for wanting to change your life....
Wishing you the best-its a good choice-one i know-if you work it-it works-no question about it-
please look at the sub thread above-there is alot of info there-post experiences..thread..and i believe short term is a good idea-i personally wish i had stuck to short term-but w/ a long standing addiction i needed long term recovery.
I think you'll agree that sub is an excellent med-and i hope this will be the tool to help you..
Thank you, Thank you!!! After reading some of the Sub posts, I'm concerned about some things........weight gain, side effects (joint pain, headaches) and expense. I'm pretty sure the expense will still be cheaper than my hydro use is now, especially if I'm able to taper off somewhat fast.
But I worry that maybe I won't be able to get off the Sub as easily & quickly as I want. I know I'm jumping way ahead of myself here but I usually like to know what I'm up against. How have some of you got your insurance to pay for this type of treatment? Does anyone have HealthNet PPO and was it covered?
My first appt. was $120., follow ups are $60. and pills are $5. a piece. Regarding the weight gain....I'm not really fat but I'm always 5-7 lbs. over my usual weight. I don't want to gain any, at all! And then regarding joint pain & headaches, I don't know that I could handle anymore pain. I'm trying the Sub to get away from pain; to give me back my life so I can enjoy the things that I used to like walking, working out, movies, etc. You know, all the little things that I wouldn't do because I worried if I had enough pills to keep me out of pain to enjoy myself.
And what about libido? Does the Sub affect that for anyone? Cuz the hydro pretty much diminishes mine....and my husband would be much happier to have THAT change! Well, these were just a few things I've been wondering about. If anyone knows the answers, can you post to me when you have a chance?
Thanks for all the help and thanks to a great message board! Good luck to you, SAMMI & DAN with coming down from the Sub. GGRL65, will you be coming off as well? I'm going to try to read all of your guys' past posts so I can see what you have been thru. Talk to you all later.
The benefits of the Suboxone far out weigh the negatives. Cost wise you are good on your Doctor visits but a little high on the Suboxone. My office visits are $105 and I pay about $3 a pill for the sub.
A lot of people have weight gain while on the Sub but it has been the complete reverse for me. I loose weight on it.
Constipation is rough so I suggest a good stool softner.
It is a pretty good pain medication. I am on it for Chronic pain relief and not for addiction. I did detox off of it a couple of months ago and went 22 days before changing over to Subutex.
As far as libido, it is killer in that area. Worse for me than other opiates I have been on. This is the area that still makes me consider getting off of it even though it has allowed me to do things (because of pain) that I have not done in years. I guess I will have to look into Viagra.LOL
Overall, most people will tell you it was a life saving drug. It allows you to look at life from a new prospective. It is almost like feeling normal again. I sometimes even forget to take my dose.
Thanks for your input; I guess I'll just have to wait & see what the side effects will be for me. Maybe you should try viagra if everything else about the sub is good for you....since I'm a female, my low libido isn't going to be obvious; I can always fake it!! heehee
I'm pretty excited that most people that have used sub say it does have good pain relieving qualities cuz that's what I'm most afraid of, pain! I don't know what the difference is between suboxone & subutex tho....actually now that I'm seeing there's 2, I'm not really sure which one I will be given today.
Well, I will find out this afternoon, huh?! I took my last dose of 2 hydros (not that they will do much for me anyway) at 8:45 this morning (I'm in California). That reminds me....Cali, if you read this, are we able to say where our doctors are located? I went and read thru a lot of posts regarding sub and noticed in one of yours that you said you were in LA; I'm not too far from you!
I really hope I have great relief on the sub like a lot of you have so I can just get away from all these pills. But what if I don't? By going the sub route, am I messing myself up as far as future pain meds? Would I ever be able to take hydros again if they are held & passed out by my husband maybe? I know this sounds like the addict in me talking but I noticed where some people posted they were on hydros then sub then back on hydros and then finally got off with hydro & sub???? So, just confused. And what if I was going to have surgery? I know for sure there is one more in my future.
I wrote down some questions/concerns for the doctor. I was told to make sure I took my last hydros 5 hrs. before my appt. and that's what I did but I hope that is enough time to be able to get the sub to work....I mean, I will be hurting at my pain sites but I won't be feeling any withdrawal symptoms besides the wanting to take some pills to get rid of the pain. This is fine, right? I think the doctor said yes since I've been taking 2 hydros every couple hours and he doesn't need me in there with full blown withdrawals.
Here I am jumping ahead again & I will talk to the doc today about this, but "what if" (and here's the addict talking again) I don't get pain relief or I do keep craving? Obviously I probably would need my dose adjusted but what would happen if I was to take a hydro while on the sub? What if the sub doesn't do what it's supposed to do, for me? I'm worrying too much, I know....I should just get off this computer & go take my shower and in a couple hours I will be at the doctors office!!!! I will stop bothering you guys now and you don't need to respond on this post; I think I was just mainly venting as I'm going to be asking these questions to the doc anyway! But thanks for listening.
Suboxone is going to be your answer. I too am a chronic pain sufferer and 8mgs daily took care of cravings and most of the pain. You can't take any form of opiate while on it or it can cause major problems. If you are still having breakthrough pain, I suggest uping the Suboxone.
You will feel so normal when you get at your maintnance dose that you want even think of pills or the high. It is amazing and I sometimes even forget to take my dose. I will give you more info later.
Yes, listen to the fisherman. Wise words.
Your #1 goal here, right now, is kicking this hydro addiction. Nothing is more important. Just listen to your doc and take only the amount of suboxone you feel you need. I also lost weight on the sub by the way. Everyone is bound to have widely varying side-effects, as there are so many other variables.
One thing for sure though, is suboxone works. As I'm sure you know by now....
By the way I'm the one who chose to taper with hydros for a couple of weeks following several months on suboxone. I jumped from 16mgs down to 2mgs per day in about 4 weeks, but can't really say if the hydro switch helped for sure. Your safest bet is to do a doctor recommended slow taper WHEN YOU"RE READY. Don't be in a hurry to stop suboxone. Get used to 'living' again for a while, and start tackling the reasons you became an addict.
You have taken a huge and life-saving step today. Congratulations.
Thank you, Octomon, for the reassuring post yesterday. Are you still on sub or hydro?---sorry, I haven't been able to read everyones stories.
I had my introduction to sub yesterday. I had my last hydros Fri. at 8:45 am and got my first 2 mg sub at about 3:45...they taste horrid!!! On the way there, I did have some sneezes and I was hurting pain wise, also I felt weepy and I got some tears out when I started thinking about the reasons I was there and when I thought about some of the sad, sick & elderly patients in the waiting area. My doctor was able to look in my eyes and see that I was in a withdrawal state. But this is weird---how come I can sleep for about 7 hours without taking any hydros and wake up without sneezing, crying, etc? I mean, I do feel pain and I immediately needed the hydros but it just felt different when I went the 7 hrs without during the day compared to the night.
My doctor checked with me every 15 mins and gave me another pill after each time as I didn't feel the withdrawals start going away until after the 3rd pill. I ended up having a total of 6 tablets before I left the office because they weren't helping with my pain. I felt it in my head and was sort of fuzzy/dizzy so I know it was working but I still had pain. Doctor also gave me 2 anti-inflammatories called something like Mobix, I think. I still felt some pain when I left at 5:45. Finally around 10:00-ish, I didn't really feel any but I had been laying on the couch, watching a movie.
I started to remember that somewhere I read that sub may not work on pain that is nerve related???? Is this true or does it work on every type of pain? I don't really know what my pain is from but this morning I was able to wake up without my usual pain but my low back did hurt; but just similar to sleeping on a different mattress or something.
I took 1 - 8 mg and a 1/2 of one, this morning....that's where the doctor has me. I had a bm today and I'm experiencing some pain in my lower abdomen where I usually feel it. So.....is this going to work for me or what??? I don't want to go up higher cuz I can feel it in my head and I want to get off it as quick as I possibly can...but I told ya guys that I am most afraid of my pain. And I'm still having some issues. If I had hydro here, I might change the game plan, know what I mean!!
Can anyone tell me what they think I should do? I go back to see the Doctor on Monday which I'll have to pay another $60 office visit and get more pills. Since I wasn't doing perfectly when I left there last night, he wanted me to check back sooner. I need help!! I'm more confused, if that's possible.
Thanks to anyone that can help me figure this out!!!
I'm sorry to hear you're struggling with the transition. I cannot comment to you on the pain issues, but I know others here, like Fisherpard, can and I'm sure will.
I can offer the advice to try to be patient and give it a few days to allow your body & mind to fully adjust to the suboxone. For me there was a lot of 'sadness' initially when I made the switch. It was very temporary but pretty heavy. You may have felt some of this.
If your pain is bearable, try to give yourself more time. I think Fisherpard is currently successfully managing pain on suboxone's sibling 'subutex'. This may be of some help. Of course the BEST thing you can do is run all this by your doc as soon as possible.
Remember, you're on the right road, and there will be bumps along the way. Just be patient with yourself and keep up the good work!
I'm back on the boards to post some updates. Octomon, thanks for the sympathetic words...you are right about the sadness. I know I have that but I'm wondering if it's because the sub isn't working for me properly? I have gotten some relief here & there and during those periods, I haven't cared about reaching for the other pills. BUT, when I'm feeling the same ole pain, I just have a craving for the hydro. And I start thinking about how expensive the sub is...probably around $380 a month (not counting the initial $120 office visit & $120 for the 2nd visit plus 12 pills)....it's pretty close to the hydro cost.
Last night I was hurting pretty bad; thought I was going to have to call the doctor but I didn't want to bother him so late on Sat. night. Yesterday morning @ about 7:30 am I had 1 1/2 pills (12 mg sub), had relief for most of the day but around 2:30-ish I started getting some pain. Finally at 3:45, I took another 1/2 a pill (4 mg sub) and only got some relief because around 9 is when I wanted to cry & call the doc. I was sooo frustrated and mad at myself for getting into this situation.
This morning I'm only having pain in my lower back, like yesterday as well. But what I also noticed is I'm not urinating very much. That happened on the hydro but honestly, it seems worse on the sub. And the pain that was causing me so much problems was around the kidney, front & back.
HELP, again! I am so sorry to bug you guys but I need your expert opinions & advice over the wkend. I see the doctor early Mon morning so at least that is right around the corner. How do I stop myself from thinking about going back to hydro due to all the things I mentioned above. The addict in me is saying that if my pain is going to be present while on either pills, that I might as well get back on hydro but this time give my pills to my husband and have him pass them out to me daily. If I was able to take them as prescribed, it would be the cheapest and easiest way. I did want to get off completely from the sub eventually but if I'm going to be in pain, it doesn't look I'll be off anything.
Now I'm all depressed because I'm going to have to get more tests done to see why the pain is there.
So, please, if anyone can give up some advice, I'd really, really apreciate it. Also, I think I'm less motivated than I was on the hydro.
Hi again Roder,
Man I really feel for you in this situation. In my opinion, vicodin is a drug that IS right on the edge of being manageable or becoming out of control. I'm sure my main reason for this opinion is that I 'graduated' from vikes to oxy, which is a turbo-charged opiate. This is why I felt comfortable switching to vikes for a couple of weeks before my sub-taper - I knew I could stop, and could NEVER have done this with oxy.
So yes in my humble, unprofessional opinion, it may be possible for you to use the hydro. BUT....keep in mind you are putting a LOT of pressure on your husband, not only as your pill dispenser, but as someone who loves you he may constantly wonder and worry about when you may become addicted. Remeber, us addicts are the best sneakers, liars, convincers & con artists in the world when it comes to feeding our addiction. For my wife, knowing that I simply CANNOT get high while taking suboxone, makes so much difference for her.
I really hope you can relax and make it through today before you make any big decision. Please try, as this may not be an either/or situation for you, but you need to see your doctor. How many mgs of sub are you taking per day?
On the cost subject, I made many many phone calls to find an afforddable sub doctor for me. It was unbelieveable the high cost and high # of rules most clinics have. Ultimately I found someone who will just write me a script and see me every week or two....maybe you can do some more looking around? Just a thought.
it seems that you are going through the depression state of letting go of your hydros and entering the next stage of being opiate fee~ the Sub route.
The first few days your body needs to stablize with your Sub dosage and it seems that you and your doctor haven't quite figured that out yet. The Sub is a pain killer and it does work for nerve pain. I have permanent nerve damage in both of my hands and I know it worked for me back then.
So you are saying you have cravings while you are on the Sub? You should discuss that with your doctor and he should be able to adjust your dosage. BTW, Cali told me to tell you that her dr was in the hollywood area.
Take care, you're doing great and be strong.
Last edited by agentalias; 10-03-2004 at 09:45 AM.
Can you quickly tell me what you are on? Did you go from oxy to hydro and are now on sub? I'm sorry, I still don't know your full story. I have been reading around on the board this morning tho....maybe I'll get to a post of yours that tells it??
Regarding my husband dispensing meds, he would love to be in control that way! Yes, I know I could come up with ways to convince him to give me more (you men! ha!) but IF this is the way I end up going, I would have to tell him that NO MATTER what I try to strike a deal with him for, he is NOT allowed to give me more!!!!
The doctor put me on 12 mgs. of sub. When I left his office Fri night, after he had given me 6 tablets, I still felt pain and told the doc about it and he just said "well, if it's bearable, just keep taking until I see you Monday". I guess the pain could be bearable if I was able to lay around all day but I have things to do. And anyway, I didn't want to get on sub so my pain would be bearable, I wanted as close to complete relief as possible. I'm so sick of feeling pain all the time while I'm awake and always dwelling on it!!
I'm hoping the Fisherman comes around since I know for sure he has chronic pain issues that are helped with subutex...I'd like to know the difference with the 2. Oh, do/did you use your insurance for the sub? My ins said it looks like they can pay a portion of visits (want to clarify again) but doctors office said they have no forms for me to take and send to ins???? Need to talk to someone else @ doctors office, I think. Getting some reimbursement would feel a lot better. My ins doesn't cover the medicine tho; they looked it up and didn't even find it so they said they must not cover it.
Well, I definately can't do anything rash as I don't have any hydros. Can I ask one more thing for anyone who knows......IF I should have to or just want to get off the sub and go back the (controlled) hydro route, is this sub doctor able to prescribe to me OR do I just go back to my old pain management doctor as if nothing had happened?
Okay that's enough for now; tummy is growling and family wants food! I do REALLY appreciate those that have taken the time to offer me help, I'm so glad you guys are out there. Hope you have a nice Sunday.