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Old 02-20-2006, 09:03 AM   #1
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Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Greetings all:

Some of you may remember me from several months ago. Back in October, I was struggling to get off of Subutex and was on a taper plan. Well, unfortunately, I could not complete it and have gone back to hydro. I stopped posting here because I felt ashamed of my failure and did not want to discourage others who might have been having success.

I hate my sub doctor and have decided not to return to him. I have not been on sub for about 10-12 days (lost count) but have been back on hydro. I admitted everything to my wife, explained that I could not handle the wds, hated my ahole sub doc and went back to pills. She has been very supportive and agreed to do whatever is necessary to help me get clean.

My main problem is doing so has not been terribly mental -- it is much more physical. Don't take that the wrong way -- I fully understand the mental and emotional energy and commitment it takes to stay clean but I have to get clean first. I cannot sleep now that I am off the sub (even with hydro, xanax, ambien and clonidine I feel awful). I am sure that the sub is still leaving my system and sleep will come soon (I hope) but obviously a good night's sleep is the least of my problems.

I need to get clean once and for all and I have proven time and time again that I cannot do this on my own -- I cannot taper. I will cave in and use or just stay on a higher dose of sub because the wds are just so severe.

So I am thinking of undergoing a rapid detox procedure but do not know where to go, how well it works, etc. The reason I do not want to go to a 28-day rehab or something is that I cannot miss work for a month. A week is about all I can get away with without calling attention to my problem.

But I feel like if I can find a reputable doctor in my area (Washington DC -- I would even go somewhere near here, it does not need to be right here in DC) that does rapid detox, I could physically get this crap out of my system and proceed with my recovery.

I know that this is only the first step on a long road but I have been on opiates for 7 years (2 1/2 on sub) and need to do something serious at this point to take that next step and be clean.

Can someone with experience or views on this please help me. I am running on empty at this point.

Thank you all and I am sorry for disappearing.

--Trampy

 
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Old 02-20-2006, 09:45 AM   #2
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Trampy, prayers are with you. Everybody's chemistry/needs are uniquely their own; some can only detox with a taper approach and for others only cold turkey works. You can learn more about rapid detox by typing rapid detox into Google or whatever web browser you use. I have never done it so have no personal experience with it. Hopefully others with personal experience can post on it for you.

From what I have read it is very expensive at around $10-15,000. The Waismann Institute in Los Angeles is one of the pioneers and has a website that discusses the procedure. The process is basically a residential inpatient program where the patient is put into an anesthesia induced sleep/coma state for the period of detox. During that time an intraveneous drug, Naltroxene, is administered which accelerates the detox. While it is an accelerated detox, it is not magic where you have no aftermath residuals to contend with. It is reported that patients experience relief of the pain of WDs, but still have the aftermath of the depression, lethargy, and some residual craving. It is a controversial process and there are supporters of all positions regarding it. IT seems that many of those against it feel that it is extremely costly and basically only addresses the 24-36 hour period of pain of WDs...and, all other aspects of post detox are the same with some alleging maybe even worse as a result of the body being deprived of the experience of gradual transition and self-acclimation to the changes....caused by going to sleep in one state and waking up in another which arguably could shock the system more.

I really hope that those with personal experience will post for you as all of my information has been learned from just reading websites online.

I guess I would strongly encourage you to try a home cold turkey detox first. If I can do it, trust me, anyone can. A taper approach did not work for me either. The only way I could succeed was just do it. There is much information and help on this Board to help you through it. Please review the other threads on this Board, especially "Vicodin Home Detox" as well as "Day 2, can hardly type". Good luck in whatever you decide!

 
Old 02-20-2006, 12:20 PM   #3
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Thanks Jam. I have also heard some controversy about the procedure and am not 100% committed to having it done. But I guess what I need is to find someone good in my area that does it and I can trust to give me the straight scoop on how well it works or does not work. I know it is no panacea but I need to do something. Luckily for me, I could probably afford it. I also have good insurance that could cover part of it.

I just want to talk to an expert but everthing I find on it on Google is in California (Waismann) or in NY or Michigan or something.

And I would love to hear from people who have done it.

I cannot do a home method -- taper or CT. I have tried and failed too many times. Just can't. Wish I could and I am so pleased that you are able to do it. Way to go!

 
Old 02-20-2006, 12:29 PM   #4
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

From what I have read and know about UROD I would suggest to you not to go through with it.It just doesn't make sense that flushing the body of all opiates without repairing the Mu receptors (and the others Kappa ect) can cure someone of opiate addiction.The brain changes physically over time when your abusing.I'm talking about a long time addict and not someone who's been abusing for a year or so.It's to bad the suboxone didn't work out for you as they are having tremendous success with it.Could you possibly see another doctor and try again???Whatever you choose I wish you all the best.Good luck and stay in touch....Dave

 
Old 02-20-2006, 12:50 PM   #5
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Hi, I would like to take a minute to let you know about UROD (ultra rapid detox). PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!!! It is not only very dangerous (has killed more people then I wish to mention) and is NOT a tested or proven method to get you clean. It is not even FDA or Addictionologist Approved!
First and foremost all they do have you withdrawal and when you just can't stand it anymore they take you to a hospital and knock you out with high doses of Valium (if your lucky you go to the hospital.. most cases around DC you stay at a office to sweat it out and hope you wake up). They then shoot you up with a bus load of NARCAN..any junkies out there know what NARCAN does?? lol not a pretty site. Narcan basically blocks your opiate receptors and kicks out the opiates so that you go into immediate and very painful withdrawal (this is when most people die). When you wake up you feel like the worst withdrawal you can imagine times 10... so by the time they tell you to leave (which is usually only a few hours) you are so hopped up on Valium and sick from opiate withdrawal you can barely walk (read where they tell you that you have to have someone stay with you for 24 hours)... so by the time all of this wears off, OF COURSE YOU FEEL BETTER, your body isn't in toxic shock anymore and now you just plain feel like CRAP.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not do this! I am a RN (former, decided to stop after becoming a user) and have seen so many sad cases and heard so many stories of the things that happen in these "caring and loving Dr.'s offices"!)
Let me ask you, If you wanted off the SUBUTEX why didn't you have a slow taper done and let your Dr. give you meds to aid with the withdrawal Sx? Curious, I am doing the slow withdrawal from Suboxone now and am at .5 with 2 weeks to go..a bit scared.
Thanks. T

 
Old 02-20-2006, 01:48 PM   #6
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Thanks guys. You are certainly starting to make me think twice but I have also to believe that it would not be legal if it was that dangerous and would be much more publicized as a horrid and "don't do this" type of procedure. Maybe I am wrong. I don't know.

FYI -- FDA does not really endorse medical procedures, by the way. FDA deals with food and drugs, not practicing medicine. FDA is the regulatory body in charge of drug approvals and overseeing clinical testing phases etc. Regardless of what a drug is approved for, about 1/2 of all Rxs in the US are off-label anyway so their control is limited in some respects, too. Irrespective of that whole issue, I certainly take your word as an RN (or former RN -- good enough for me). Thanks for the information.

To answer your Q BACKFH -- I got plenty of sub and clonidine from the doc but I just still could not deal with the wds. Maybe I went too fast. I just continually feel like sh** no matter what I try. My doctor was an *** also.

If anyone has the name of a decent sub doc in the DC area, I would most certainly appreciate a PM. Maybe I just need a good doctor to get me through this.

 
Old 02-20-2006, 05:18 PM   #7
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

I went to Florida in December of 2004 and went through the Ultra Rapid Detox procedure. My experience was positive. The procedure was done at an accredited hospital under the supervision and care of an anesthesiologist (MD) and nurses. It gave me my life back after being on Oxycontin for four years and also unable to taper off of Suboxone. I was down to the smallest possible Suboxone dose and tried to just stop taking it. I went through terrible withdrawls for five days until, finally, I began taking the Suboxone again. I was not just "mildly uncomfortable" but in unbearable, skin-crawling, sick pain. I was told at the time that it was similar to heroin withdrawl.

It's upsetting to me to read the negative responses you have received. I am a 40 year old wife and mother of two and narcotics were ruining my life. (Originally prescribed for chronic pain!) I searched "rapid detox" on the internet and found this place. (Rules of this site don't allow me to say the name or place.) I went to Florida, checked in to the hospital (just as one would any other medical procedure) and was detoxed. They set my receptors "back to day one", as if I'd never taken narcotics. I fail to understand why someone would say this is not medically feasible. Drug dependency/addiction is both mental AND physical. I was ready to stop taking narcotics but my body wouldn't let me! I needed help to stop, and this procedure did it for me. After the procedure, I still did not feel well for about a month, however, this feeling was nothing compared to the pain of cold-turkey withdrawls.

I've been drug free for one year and two months. It's much better on this side, let me tell you.

I wish you all the best. Find a way.


 
Old 02-20-2006, 05:41 PM   #8
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Carol, could you please elaborate more on what you mean by "They set my receptors 'back to day one'. I am not personally familiar with the rapid detox; only know what I have read online. I am pretty sure that this is the procedure that Rush Limbaugh allegedly had.

Everything that I have read about it is that the highly profesisonal hospitals that perform the procedure seem to have results that are more consistent with Carol's post. However, I am sure there are several quack service operations to be leary of; similar to what backdoor abortion clinics used to be years ago. This is NOT an area where you want to shop for the lowest bargain basement deal; its your life. The important thing Trampy is do your homework well, and don't just accept the word of any medical professional who stands to financially gain from the advise you are given. I am not sure who that leaves you with for a medical expert to seek counsel from. Hopefully others can post options for you.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 09:17 AM   #9
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

I talked to my uncle today and got the name of a pain management specialist -- one of the best in the DC area -- who also is on the subbutex list. So my hope is that he might be able to send me in the right direction.

I am going tomorrow morning and will post afterwards.

Last edited by moderator2; 02-21-2006 at 01:06 PM.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 09:17 AM   #10
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Thanks Jam -- I know. And believe me the last thing I want is dealers trolling what are very helpful boards.

I talked to my uncle today and got the name of a pain management specialist -- one of the best in the DC area -- who also is on the subbutex list. So my hope is that he might be able to send me in the right direction.

I am going tomorrow morning and will post afterwards.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 10:20 AM   #11
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

Trampy sounds like you are on a good path towards options for your needs. Please keep posting your progress and information that you learn. Your experience will help others in navigating their own recovery plans/needs.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 10:29 AM   #12
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Re: Rapid/Ultra-Rapid Detox -- Info?

I will. Thanks again.

 
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