It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Addiction & Recovery Message Board


Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2006, 11:09 PM   #1
Junior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: st. pete, fl. usa
Posts: 18
gully4mile HB User
Re: Benzos

the valley of the dolls---i've seen so many an ex-wife hooked on klonopin---she tries to quit---ICU, where she's told she really needs it---i didn't understand and lost a good woman---where is justice? when will they prosecute legal pushers as the guys selling crack on the street---no difference, except scripted drugs may be more dangerous---look at neuroleptics---'you can't fool all of them, all the time.' but apparently you may get close---even NAMI Santa Cruz wonders---'time for societal control?'
god knows, long time coming-------

 
Old 02-21-2006, 12:09 AM   #2
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK, Cornwall
Posts: 847
Blasterboy HB UserBlasterboy HB User
Re: Benzos

intereseting post, I'm taking normally 2.5mg of Klonpin but up to 6 mg a day if needed (never needed or desired!) IT's use is for cronic Nueorlogical pain and I've only been on it for two month and I've had some strange thigh muslce pains and weaknesses that I even wondered if it could be MULTIPULE SCLROCSIS! From what you're saying it could be the benzo causing this problem. I need to talk to my doctor about it and see if I need to get if them. They do really help. Maybe more than the Oxy that I take, but I've heard benzo's are harder to come off!

Interesting post, thanks

Last edited by Blasterboy; 02-21-2006 at 06:22 AM.

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 02-21-2006, 12:19 AM   #3
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,151
Constant HB User
Re: Benzos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasterboy
intereseting post, I'm taking normally 2.5mg of Klonpin but up to 6 mg a day if needed (never needed or desired!) IT's use is for cronic Nueorlogical pain and I've only been on it for two month and I've had some strange thigh muslce pains and weaknesses that I even wondered if it could be MULTIPULE SCLROCSIS! From what you're saying it could be the benzo causing this problem. I need to talk to my doctor about it and see if I need to get if them. They do really help. Maybe more than the Oxy that I take, but I've heard benzo's are harder to come off!

Interesting post, thanks
Absolutely the worse thing I ever detoxed from was Benzo's. I went cold turkey from fairly signifcant amounts. The doctor and pharmacist told me I was lucky I didn't kill myself.

It made coming off of Hydro's a perverbial picnic.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 01:50 AM   #4
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 480
jam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB User
Re: Benzos

I agree with Constant. I have detoxed from both Hydros and then later Benzos. Benzos are the worst possible imaginable detox...pure HELL. I would never touch another one knowing what I know now about it. My doctor never provided any cautions about risks, and when I started having wierd symptoms while on them and wanted off, he wouldn't help me....all he would do is keep prescribing more. Needless to say once I got off them on my own without his help I never went back to him again.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 05:53 AM   #5
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5
passion8 HB User
Re: Benzos

This is my first post, and while I am now addicted to NORCO, and am hating myself for opening another trap to Hell...I will say that two years a go I kicked Ativan after being on it for four years...it started benignly enough....02mg.s for sleep...the first one was the best sleep i had had in years..soon i was multiplying the dosage and began a downhill agoraphobic cycle of running home after work getting into my jammies popping in a movie and melting up to 7...2.0 mgs of Ativan under my tongue and laying there in lala land for four years....I was getting them online, from a crooked pharmacist who would hand me 100 of them no script no problem for ten bucks insurance prices...I never took them during the day as i like to get a lot done I just became trapped thinking i needed them at night...i could never travel anywhere with out them and once flew from NYC to LA asleep the whole time with my mouth wide open drooling...thinking that as we landed What a great flight! I lost my personality. I lost my sex drive I lost my Hair! my short term memory and as i am told now i looked spaced out most of the time and dreamy...I doctor shopped...had doctors actually deny me the little ativan's and told me how they mimic parkinsons and Multiple sclerosis (One Doctor told me he saw patients screaming and begging in hospitals for those teey weeny ativans...I thought they were being mean to me...
I was cut off cold turkey by my pharmacist and doctors...i had no choice but to kick(in my heart i knew i had to)...In my life and i have taken everydrug...i have never ever ever gone thru what i went thru kicking!
I S*** myself at work, i lost 15 pounds in in 2 weeks i wept uncontrolaby i lost motor skills i hallucinated(kept seeing Dark shadows around me) at work i thought my head would become detached from my neck i could not get comfortable no matter what i did, Hot and Cold I was crazy, I cried so much that I became Hysterical and couldn't breathe.No OTC helped! nada and I tried em all! i should never have kicked on my own! Finally on the 8th day i fell asleep and it was as though i had never slept in my life a true 8 hours of sleep! Just before i fell asleep I remember feeling as though my skin were hanging off my bones, when i woke up inthe morning magically the skin tone had returned and in the mirror i saw a shell of myself! Believe it or not I am so glad i went thru that ! I never touched another Ativan even though weeks later i went back to that pharmacy for my hormones and found another bottle of the stuff ( my heart was pounding when i saw that script of 60 put in there by a well menaing Pharmacy friend...I still have that same bottle in my bedroom drawer, I call it my end of the world drug , meaning if we are In a nuclear attack I will down the Ativan LOLOLOL...It took a month before the restless legs and sudden hand twitching went a way...I just wanted to share my story of Benzo's and while i would never want my worst enemy to go thru what i did in a way i am glad i CT'd that drug...it showed me the horror...Every now and then i will take a valium to get a good night sleep but when i wake up i am so scared that I put a lot of time between my next one and will never ever exceed one! Even one can make me guilty for days...In my profession there is a lot of pill passing and exchanging...it's so easy for me to get anything i want...
I have tried every drug...kicked almost all of them and I will say i have never gone thru anthing like Benzo withdrawal...I say to those of you who are trying to get off get some help. don't be afraid, you will get thru this...I say a prayer for all of you....It is The medical professions most insidious and worst invention!! god Bless you all!

 
Old 02-21-2006, 08:52 AM   #6
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 480
jam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB User
Re: Benzos

Passion thank you for sharing your story. I hope that others will heed the warning. Benzos are VERY dangerous. Benzodiazepines alter brain chemistry and functioning in a major way. They are HIGHLY and RAPIDLY addictive drugs and among the most difficult drugs to stop. Stopping abruptly can be very dangerous and cause a grand mall seizure; seizures like an epileptic experiences. Drinking alcohol while taking benzodiazepine is extremely dangerous and life threatening. To learn more about benzodiazepines just type the word into Google or any search engine....look for reliable formal education or government websites; they will have .edu or .gov as part of their webaddress. When I home detoxed from Xanax I was helped through the process with the tapering guidelines established by Professor Heather Ashton in the United Kingdom who has researched and published much of her work online for the public and for medical professionals. She has developed guideline recommendations for tapering from all benzodiazepines and published them in the Ashton Manual, available free online. The bottom line is that the greatest hope for success with Benzo detox is transitioning from a short half life Benzo to a longer half life Benzo and then doing a taper. It is almost impossible to do a taper with a short half life Benzo because the WDs are like hitting a concrete wall at 100 miles an hour. Tapering from a longer half life bridges and then the taper gradually lessens the impact. I achieved my Benzo detox by switching from Xanax (short half life) to Valium (long half life). My doctor seemed to virually know nothing about the process or the objective. He refused to knowingly help me get off of anything. How I managed it was deceptively using his interest to keep me on something with me agreeing to stay on something IF he would switch me from Xanax to Valium. He was befuddled, like what's the difference. I didn't even bother trying to explain it because if he figured out that the switch was an actual taper support he probably would not have agreed to do it. As it was he thought it was a way to just keep me on something. I am convinced that this doctor is just a legallized pill pusher. He knowingly kept me on this stuff too long, put me at risk, caused the dependency, and then wouldn't help when he was told there was a problem. I am not blaming him for it all....he didn't follow me home and take the cap off the bottle for me....I did that on my own. I was in serious trouble before I ever knew there were any risks and by then it was too late. Thank God for online message board support forums and that I found the work of Professor Ashton online because I had to plan and manage my own detox without medical support. I could have told my family and switched doctors where I would have likely been referred for inpatient treatment....something that for me was not an option because of my profession and my pride. I was very ashamed of what I had allowed to happen to me. I am an educated, intelligent,professional person....I felt that I should have known better. I could live with my private shame, but there was no way I was going to live with family and public exposure. For me, a discreet home detox was the ONLY alternative. Unlike the post above, OTC coping products did help me. However, what I learned was most things only work if taken in mega doses in order to be able to combat the intensity of WDs. If taken as recommended I agree that they do little. I used the OTC coping options as outlined in another thread on this Board, Vicodin Home Detox Plan, the OTC coping options are outlined on page 1 of that thread. One VERY important additional OTC supplement in a Benzo detox is the addition of Taurine which helps to protect from grand mall seizures. For me that was the scariest part of Benzo detox...I was terrified because part of the detox symptom is a feeling of a band tightening around your head....the tighter it got the more terrified I got and worried about how close I might be to an actual seizure happening. Fortunately during that period I read every online post I could find on Benzo detox where I somehow found the strength and courage to hang on and endure it. Good luck to all who are struggling with this horrible family of Benzo drugs. My heart and prayers go out to you.

Last edited by jam338; 02-21-2006 at 09:02 AM.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 09:16 AM   #7
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5
passion8 HB User
Re: Benzos

Jam, thank you for responding, Like I said I am now addicted like Hell to Norco...in my life and it is amazing that I have lived this long on so many things...I LOVE LIFE plain and simple and have a lot of Love in it...but something inside me is terribly at war. A Talented great woman like me with so much to live for is/has always taken something to get thru the day...weather it be one codene or ten Norco...I am not a meetings person for the most part kicked everything form Heroin to Craxk by myself and never wanted to be tagged a "Junkie" for the rest of my life just wanna move on with this self medicating...And wake up going wow what a lovely crisp day...without the Norco or excedrin or whatever...My Husband and What a love and great guy...Goes...Just be happy like it's no big deal...
Should I Start another thread...? Please Help Jam...Your getting off Hydro's is the most amazing thing I have ever read...should I go there and start posting?
Life time Partier
ps. have you ever taken the supplement SAMe? It really helps me with depression

 
Old 02-21-2006, 10:38 AM   #8
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 480
jam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB User
Re: Benzos

Passion, you have been through a lot, and you CAN do this. I encourage you to journal and post your experience and feelings regarding Hydro dependency/detox. And, yes, you may feel free to use the Vicodin Home Detox or any Hydro thread. The recent experiences of two other Hydro Detoxers (board posters GSX and Muler) are on "DAY 2 WD...can hardly type" and "Another Addict Trying To Recover".

Regarding SamE, I learned about it and started taking it after my detox. I actually first learned of it when I was seeking OTC pain relief options to cope with Fibromyalgia. I am trying all OTC options in order to avoid rx level pain relief after what I have been through I never ever want to mess with that stuff again. In my opinion, it has its place and value, but is a SHORT term relief option for SHORT term pain and, for me at least, should never be an option for treating long term pain conditions since it always ends up in dependency/detox. There is a HUGE boomerang effect with painkillers where they truly wonderfully short term and then they change where they actually start magnifying the pain they first helped. There is no way for the patient to delineate the cause of that change as it just feels like PAIN that needs to be treated so the natural progression into dependency hell begins. Posting your experience/feelings will not only help you, but will help others who are reading and contemplating their own dependency options. I check the Home Detox thread frequently to see if others need support....just my way of giving gratitude for all the help and guidance I received through others on many Boards. I try to help all that I can.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 11:08 AM   #9
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5
passion8 HB User
Re: Benzos

Jam, again thanx for the quik response...I have to get out of here to go to work, I started my vitamin regime today ...back on the powdered vitamin "ALL ONE" redily absorbed and life supporting. Started takin the Calcium and Magnesium and fish oil Omega's and will go and get the Zinc/magnesium (Hell that is one of the best cold fighters out there and I swear by this.... if you shmear it on your face at night (the 4 dollar tube) with some liquid vitamin e to spread it your skin looks amazing..I am going to try to get strong before I kick all hydro's...have decided to quit CT!!! I have been going from site to site this morning up at 3am crying because it was one of my I am soooo guilty from "ONE" valium nights! I should know better I must tell you I am menopausal and sleep has been the issue for a few years...i have gone the Sub route and always fail...it's like one high to another...and then the well meaning Doc is exasperated with me and cuts me off so back I go on Hydro's...
Nope CT is the only way...otherwise i won't feel what the Heck i have done to myself in the first place...I think I need to physically suffer( everything I ever quit I did this way and never looked back) what's a week out of my life as opposed to the sub taper and then the horrible suboxone that sends you back to Hydro's)!!...I will surround myself with all that you say Plus some of the things that I think may help...
Like The SAMe..it is a Liver support, it is a joint healer and a mood stabilizer all natural and made in the brain better than Saint Johns Wort...for me anyway, Plus tons of EMERGEN C those powdered packets...I will come home tonight and start to post on your "getting off of Hydro site" so it stays up I love that and I wanna read it over and over again...
Jam ON Jam...

 
Old 02-21-2006, 12:06 PM   #10
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 480
jam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB User
Re: Benzos

LOL, okie dokie-will do, will catch ya over on the other thread

 
Old 02-22-2006, 06:47 PM   #11
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 28
vmom HB User
Re: Benzos

Sorry to barge in.........I've been taking 25 mg to 30 mg Valium for 13 years. When I got pregnant 4 years ago, I stopped and had no w/d affects. Was this a fluke? I knew I was pg very early in my pg, had been trying. Before finding out, I may have taken only 10 mg a day.

I'm now back taking them again (as I can get them easily from my doc). I would like to be free of all pills (I also take 40 mg of vicodin daily for endo).

With Valium, 30 mg a day, should I taper off - I never knew it was that dangerous to just quit. Also, is Valium then the "light" benzo on the scale, it seems to be per the first post in this thread.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. I've been lurking for a long time here and have only posted a couple of times as I am working on a vicodin taper from 40 mg daily - I'm on 35 mg this week.
Thank you.
Elizabeth

 
Old 02-22-2006, 07:24 PM   #12
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 480
jam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB User
Re: Benzos

Hi Elizabeth, you are not barging in!!! Well it sounds like you are one lucky lady that you didn't experience WDs with the Valium, and yes, it does sound like a possible fluke. Everyone's body chemistry is unique so who know what you may have that protected you with it; but thank your lucky stars for it because benzo detox is horrible and can be life threatening, rare, but real. Because of the seizure risks a slow taper is best. When I detoxed from Xanax I did the Valium bridge taper and added Taurine which supposedly helps protects against seizures. I also used other OTC WD Coping Options as outlined in the Sample Home Detox Post which can be found at the top of the Board main page as a sticky post. Sounds like you have a good rapport with your doctor so you might consider discussing your concerns with your doctor and asking him/her to help you taper. For me, I had no luck with my doctor. He didn't have a clue, and was not interested in doing anything to help me, but to continue to prescribe drugs that I desparately wanted off of. Hopefully, your situation is different. While medical consultations are encouraged, have awareness about how you state things with your doctor regardomg documentation of things permanently into your medical record that could in some instances in the future become questioned as you pursue life insurance, health insurance, or health employment certifications.

I don't think that any benzo can be described as "light". They are all very rapidly addictive and one of the most difficult drugs to detox from. Valium likely has a more successful taper potential because it has longer half-half life, meaning it leaves your system much slower and over a longer period of time which narrows the peaks and valleys of WD. For those on a short acting benzo like Xanax, converting to a bridge taper long acting benzo like Valium stabilizes the taper and helps with WDs.

Good luck in your decision

 
Old 02-22-2006, 07:53 PM   #13
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 28
vmom HB User
Re: Benzos

Thank you for taking the time to reply Jam.

I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the information I am reading on these bb's. I never considered myself addicted until I started counting pills. I realized then something was wrong. I was prescribed the Valium to get through a death in the family and my doctor just keep prescribing them. I don't even go to his office, he mails me the script and I send him a check (he's been my doctor since I was 13). He thinks I need them - I used to work at a very stressful, high profile job and the stress was more than I could handle at times. But I quit the Valium when I had my son. Then I went through a series of family deaths, and so on, and my doctor said the Valium would help me cope.

I don't even think I feel anything when I take one. I do feel them if I take 20mg at one time, but that is very rare. (sorry to be editing but I'm paranoid that someone will read this and know who I am, weird.). I just want to be normal.

I would never have thought of documentation on my medical records...............thank you for pointing that out to me. I held the same position for 20 years, before staying home with my son. One day I was counting my vicodin and valium and I said "that's it". Think about your son. I definitely have short term memory issues.

I will now count my lucky stars that my son is here and well with no health issues as a result of my Valium usage. The unfortunate side affect I am experiencing currently is a feeling of "nothing". I feel "nothing" lately, apart from the love I have for my son. The valium and vicodin have been great in taking away the mental and physical pain but have replaced these with a complete emptiness.

It is very encouraging to read stories such as yours and these boards are truly amazing resource. I wish I could find more time to read and research.

Since I've been on the Valium for 13 years (apart from my pregnancy), I don't know what life would be without them anymore. The vicodin addiction came on abruptly. I was prescribed 30 pills for endo pain in 2000 and then again after I gave birth in 2001. Bang, I haven't had one day since without taking either a valium of a vicodin. It took me almost 3 years to realize I have a problem.

Thank you also for explaining this in such great detail, for example, I have absoutely no knowledge of long and short half-lifes. I feel embarrassed to be so uneducated about the dangers associated with benzos and painkillers. No one knows about my addictions. My husband knows I take a vicodin and/or valium occasionally, but never questions it, though I get prescriptions monthly. Also, I took some Tussionex when my husband was sick with bronchitis and I have a script for two refills from a recent bout of bronchitis, but I haven't refilled it because I can tell it is very, very addicting, I just loved it and did the 18 days of medicine in 7.

I wonder if this will now affect any future employment I seek as I had basically one job in my adult life?

Apologies for the book but it feels good to talk to someone.
Thank you again.
Elizabeth.

Last edited by vmom; 02-22-2006 at 08:59 PM.

 
Old 02-22-2006, 08:45 PM   #14
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 480
jam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB Userjam338 HB User
Re: Benzos

Elizabeth, you are quite welcome. Do not feel bad about not knowing!! Most of us didn't know until we were in trouble! Thank you for sharing your story which oddly seems similar to mine --- high-profile job, lots of stress, death in family, a doctor eager to prescribe, and well you know the story all too well. The difference for me was I wasn't taking Vicodin and Benzo at same time. First Vicodin, then Benzo (Xanax) and then Tramadol---3 different doctors as I was referred out to specialists for followup care---none of the 3 ever warned about tolerance dependency being a real problem that would involve horrible WDs...all treated tolerance very lightly and just increased doseage when I raised concerns.

For me, I eventually chose to home manage my own detox so that there would be no medical file documentation and reduce risks of jeopardizing my job. I mean obviously it was in my file regarding what I was being prescribed, but at the time I did not understand there was a medical distinction between addiction and tolerance dependency---all I knew was I could do nothing that might put my job at risk.

If you should choose to discuss it with your doctor, be sure you understand which applies to you, addiction or tolerance dependency, so you can accurately describe it and not unknowingly create the impression of a more serious problem than what you may have.

Addiction is associated with with inability to safely manage prescription useage in accordance with directions; abusing drugs, specifically taking prescription drugs beyond levels of how they were prescribed. For example, acquiring "additional" supplies through other sources than your doctor; friends, online, sellers, etc. Therefore, understandably, if you tell your doctor you feel you have an addiction problem, policies in some facilities require doctors to red flag the drug problem on your file for the awareness of any doctor who sees you so they don't prescribe for you.

Dependency is associated with taking drugs as prescribed, but developing a predictable tolerance associated with the basic inherent nature of the drug, and not the associated with your ability to properly manage your prescription as directed.

For physicians the diagnostic difference is an indicator as to whether a person has foundational drug management issues. Those who can't manage drug use in accordance with prescription must be halted from further abuse potential. Those who have developed tolerance dependency are not likely to be red-flagged. It is all an issue of semantics, but important semantics in the medical world that us lay folks generally would never have a clue even existed. I didn't know it either; my cousin is a doctor so that is how I learned it.

For some folks they MUST have that disclosure/external control in order to quit. Only you know which category you honestly feel that you fit within.

You were very wise to realize that when you started to count pills that it was a warning signal. In retrospect I think that was one of the first signs, and I wish I had known that and done something long before I did. Counting pills, splitting pills, waking thoughts that you need to take a pill the moment your feet hit the floor, scheduling things around your RX refill date, arranging to be able to pick up your RX refill as soon as the pharmacy opens, horrible feelings of panic and dread when your doctor has not yet called in your refill.....all are warning signs that tolerance and dependency have set in and difficult choices must be made---doctor can increase dose level or change to a more potent medication (all leading to tolerance and dependency of a worst substance that will be harder to detox from)---or detox and get off the drug merrygoround and get YOUR life back.

Last edited by jam338; 02-22-2006 at 08:55 PM.

 
Old 02-22-2006, 08:58 PM   #15
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 28
vmom HB User
Re: Benzos

Jam,
What a very insightful reply.

I have to read it again and come back to you tomorrow with some more thoughts. I guess I fit into the tolerance category as well as the addiction category.

So much to learn...................I'm going to read your reply again and come back here by the weekend.

I cannot thank you enough tonight. You are a terrific person for taking the time to talk to me.
Elizabeth

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
how long does benzo withdrawal last rochscam Addiction & Recovery 1 03-19-2009 08:29 PM
Start Chantix next week & benzo withdrawal whirledps Smoking Cessation 1 12-19-2007 09:46 AM
Question re: taper schedule for evening Benzo Dosage kathryn55555 Addiction & Recovery 10 07-24-2007 12:26 PM
Benzo's 16 years...withdrawal symptoms ? happyhome Addiction & Recovery 17 07-09-2006 02:54 PM
Can benzo withdrawal cause trouble walking? steven910 Addiction & Recovery 3 05-24-2006 03:46 PM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Sign Up Today!

Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

I want my free account

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:59 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!