It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Addiction & Recovery Message Board


Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-30-2007, 09:36 PM   #1
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
patty62 HB User
Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

Hi to All
My name is Patty- this is the first time I have been to this board- I truly hope some-one can help! I have been on Pain Medication now for about 7 years. This is the result of a couple of car accidents.

I thought I would mention I do have lots of Chemical Sensitivites but have have been taking Endone 5mg 4 times a day now for 2 years- before this I was on Oxycontin but this somehow got changed when I was in hospital at one stage.
Recently I have been feeling extremely "knocked" around from the medication. I have no energy to even do simple things (I am not sure if the medication is the problem or there is something else happening -i.e thyroid and the medication is making things worse).
Anyway MY GP decided I should change to oxycontin after he saw me last Wednesday- he told me to take 10mg twice a day. On Thursday morning I took one 10mg Oxycontin and was totally wiped out for the rest on the day.
The next day I tried to take 5mg oxycontin Three times a day as discussed with doctor-and 2.5 mg endone last thing a night- again my body just fell into a heap. During this time I have been taking panadol and condeine about every 6 hours as I seem to have a bit of "fever"
I have now been told to take 5mg oxycontin twice a day-still feeling drained. - this is just starting, it is now about 11 hours since last dose.
I don't want to go into unplanned W/D's... I am starting to wonder if the oxycontin is causing more problems than the Endone. Whether it is the opiates causing the problem or they are just re-acting to something else that is going on within my body.
Sorry I don't mean to be vague I am confused, feel emtremely unwell and worried.
Please ask me any questions you like I will answer them as honestly as I know.
Thankyou for reading this I hope to hear from some-one very soon.
Sincerely
Patty

Last edited by patty62; 06-30-2007 at 10:33 PM. Reason: spelling errors

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 06-30-2007, 11:33 PM   #2
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 294
shay4bliss HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

Hi Patty,

So glad you joined the board! I don't know how much help I can be to you, but I'll try. You will most likely get more replies during the day, so just try to hang in there okay?

I have been an addict for many years and have heard of just about everything. But you had me stumped on this one and I had to do some research on it. Endone is oxycodone. Oxycodone and oxycontin are the same things which verified my suspisions. OxyCONTIN is a slow release form of oxyCODONE. So basically it sounds like you're taking the same things. One has only a 4 hour release and the other (contin) has a 12 hour release.

I really can't understand why your doc would put you on two of the same things. In the information I read about Oxycodone someone was speaking of how they felt extremely tired but were afraid to go to sleep. This sounds like you are taking an awful lot of the same med. You stated that your doc has you taking oxycontin 3x's a day and it's supposed to have a 12 hour release which would mean that you're taking too much. However, it was not said how many miligrams the 12 hr release is.
May I ask exactly what your taking the pain meds for? You've been taking them for a long time. That's some powerful stuff.
I know with hydrocodone, when I am taking too much, I can feel extremely sleepy and listless. Whereas when I take it in more of a moderation, I get quite alot of energy from it. One of the signs of overdose is extreme sleepines, listlessness, lethargy.
Are you only taking the medicine when you need to and are in pain? When you say you have "chemical sensitivities" exactly what do you mean? Do you always take pain medication as prescribed?

I'm really sorry for what you're going through. It sounds like you are really scared. I wish there was more I could say, but I'm just really a little unsure about your entire situation. It definately sounds like you need to be on something else. What is the other medication you're taking and how long have you been taking it?

Maybe if you could give me some more insight into your situation, I might could be of more help.
Hope to hear more from you,
Shay

Last edited by shay4bliss; 06-30-2007 at 11:34 PM.

 
Old 06-30-2007, 11:51 PM   #3
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 294
shay4bliss HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

hI Patty,

I was trying to find out more about the other meds you're on. You said 'condeine'...did you mean codeine??? And all I could tell about panadol is that it's an OTC pain med. That's an awful lot of pain meds you're taking. How much of the codeine do you take?

Just trying to get a better picture of what could be happening. Are you wanting to stop taking these meds?

Shay

 
Old 07-01-2007, 05:16 AM   #4
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
patty62 HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

HI Shay
Thankyou for your response. I am currently feeling a little less "whacked" out than when I type the earlier post (although hurting alll over) so hopefully I can clarify some things.
MY GP and I have been talking for some time about reducing my dose of opiates...up until Thursday morning I had been taking Endone 5mg 4x daily, 5mg Oxycontin once daily at bedtime and 2 panadeine (which is codiene 8mg and I think tyenol (panadol) 500mg -when needed up to eight a day...
For the past few weeks I have felt like I have had no "get up and go" and more recently felt quite tired etc from the Endone/or something?
Apparently according to my GP- more recently studies have shown that slow re-lease oxycontin does not last in your body for 12 hours- it's something more like 8 1/2 hours.
On Wednesday my GP told me to stop the Endone and start taking the Oxycontin 10mg twice daily- so in theory this would add up to a total of 20mg daily. On the THursday morning I took one 10mg Oxycontin and was wiped out for the day that evening I took 5mg Oxycontin instead of the 10mg as directed, I did take 2.5 mg of Endone though just thinking it would take the edge of things...reducing
On Friday I took 5mg oxycontin 3x daily about every 8-9 hours and the extra
2.5 mg of endone at bedtime..I felt wiped out for most of the day
I rang my GP Saturday morning explaining what was going on (there was no way I intended to drive to the surgery). THis is when he told me to reduce yet again to 5mg Oxycontin twice daily and cover break through pain with pandiene forte. Last night (sunday morning) I awoke about 3-30am at this time I took a couple Panadeine-it was obviously too much my mouth was so dry and I even at one point thought I might have somehow overdosed and should be ringing an Ambulance-I must have fell asleep couple hours later.
So the current plan is that I should be taking 5mg oxycontin twice daily and cover break through pain with panadeine- I took the last dose of oxycontin about 7 hours ago I have been in pain for the last 2-3 hours. Shay, yes I want to get my dose down but I live alone and I don't want to go into W/d's I would rather taper. It is weird because it seems I am now taking 1/2 the total dose of opiates than 3-4 days ago but/and I am not sure if oxycontin is metabolized differently than Endone-because it is wiping me out.
I also have a thyroid problem that I take thyroxine for daily-it is hard to tell as the blood test always come back normal so my dose is changed on clinical presentation/how I feel.
The pain killers are for my neck and back- I also take valium 15mg at night and a stilnox (ambien 5mg) at bedtime. I have been on this dose for several years now, actually in fact I have managed to reduced the Ambien by half and drop 5mg Valium. With all this I seemed to to be functioning OK up until the last 6 months/especially the past few weeks-not sure if my metabolism is changing or what.
I have a condition that seems to be increasing all the time- this is the multiple CHemical sensitivites- I am becoming more and more intolerant of medicatons i.e. anti-biotics etc the list gets longer everytime the GP gives me something he says "good-Luck" I cannot tolerate SSRI's, anti-inflammatories and numerous other families of drugs - so maybe it has been a time-bomb as far as the opiates are concerned my body just does not like them anymore.
I hope I have clarified your questions and I am sorry if I confused you re names etc of medication (seems it depends what country you live what they call it) like "House" has his "Vicatin"!! still trying to work out what that is?
Sorry this post is so long-it's all a bit of a mess. Hope to hear from you soon
Patty

 
Old 07-01-2007, 05:53 AM   #5
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,400
reachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

Hello Patty

Nice to meet you. Welcome.

Patty, there are so many stories on this board. However, in my mind, there are two groups of us. Those who started with opiates for recreation and those who started with opiates for pain. The only difference is our starting points. We have all ended up in the same boat... we have a problem with opiates (or other various drugs like alcohol, over-the-counter meds and all that). For now, let's focus on the opiates you are using, okay?

Shortly after an opiate has served its function to alleviate pain after some type of trauma, it takes on a life of its very own and is like a parasite as it uses our bodies to propogate its use. As we build tolerance to it, which happens quickly, the opiate has a strong characteristic of using our body and brain to send out false pain signals and magnify pain in order to use these tactics to get us to ingest more opiate at higher dosages and more frequently. No matter what our starting point, this is where we all hop into the same boat. We are all rowing with addictive behavior now. I know many of us make a huge differential between addiction and dependency, but once we are in the boat, we are there. The difference is at the starting point and then again at the ending point. At the ending point, the dependednt soul does not have the cravings that can so linger for the addict. I am sharing my thoughts on this with you to try and waylay any offense that might be taken as you stay with us and perhaps find offense at some of the words directed to you. The words can sometimes make us feel defensive and upset because we can perceive that others don't understand our starting points, you know? Okay.

In my opinion, you are displaying addictive behaviour. I am not saying you are a street crackhead, but recognizing that your beghaviour is similar. issues with opiates, changing opioates, needing more opiates, that kind of stuff. Your body is being fed a huge amount of opiate everyday and you are experiencing the same effects as a street addict...lethargy, listlessness and other things Shay wrote about. I don't condemn you in any way here... my journey has included 10, not 7, years of using opiates and other meds, like xanax, before I finally tapered off them. And my ending point has found me not craving those meds, has found me healthy and energized again, and most remarable sometimes, it has found me in far, far less pain than I had been while on the opiates to control pain! hard to believe from where you sit now, but I tell you the truth. And it is not just my truth, but the truth of many who have been on a journey you may well be embarking on yourself.

I believe your doctor is trying to get you to take the first step in the journey fopr you by making the switch to a longer acting opiate like oxycontin. I would assume with the hope that the longer acting med will be used in place of the shorter acting one. (Although often chronic pain patients use a long acting med with shorter acting ones for breakthrough pain).

Patty, I am stretching out across huge expanse of ocean here to you. You are in a perilous situation right now with your opiate intake. Very dangerous ground. It is way past time to get more educated about opiate use. Yes, it is a medication, but the ramifications of long term use seem beyond your scope of knowledge presently. Read, read, read the many threads on this site. Go back and read the threads and posts from weeks and begin your education. Before you begin to formulate a plan concerning your use, learn the parts of a plan that go far beyond just detoxing. If you begin with a solid base of knowledge, you begin with a more solid chance of success. Investigate and ask questions, every question that crosses your mind. Treat the issue as if your life depends on it because it does. Your physical and mental and emotional live. Opiates affect all parts of our being. Stay with us as you move along. We are great supporteres of the whole being. Holistic cyber buddies. Smiles. Do make sure to make the very first thread on this board, The Sample Home detox, one of your first readings.

With all hope, new friend
reach

 
Old 07-01-2007, 07:34 AM   #6
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,133
feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

i am just a bit confused here about a couple of things.number one,i 'think' you are inadvertantly interspersing oxycontin for oxycodone since i know they do not actually make a 5 mg oxycontin.why the codiene?you can by tylenol for fevers without the codiene.i do think the codiene may be your biggest problem.oxycontin shouldn't be giving you that much added drowsiness or affect since it is a very slow release med.you are actually only getting 5mgs after the firstt hour you take it,then another 5 mgs at around six hours.i am thinking that the Endone is actually like endocet or percocet here?5mgs of oxycodone,with tylenol?you are i do think already getting enough tylenol(if this is indeed the same thing?) just from the amount of the endone you are actually taking thru out the day.i would drop the codeine and see how you feel.

in pain management,the idea of actually taking a long acting med like oxycontin is to get rid of the need to have to be taking pills all day long.the endone should actually be used only as a break thru med when your pain "breaks thru' your base med.in order to best manage pain with the use of oxycontin(or any other long acting pain med),your doc should ideally be raising the OC amount to meet your pain then only allowing the endone for BT pain.do you know what i am saying?the OC "should' eventually be taking the edge off so there is no need(except BT pain) to have to keep regularly taking added pills.that is how the oxycontin was ment to be used in pain management really.and your doc IS so right about the OC not making the claimed by perdue(manufacturer) full 12 hours.it handles about 8-10 for mine,and my PM doc also is aware of this.he could have you take the OC either three times a day or just raise the amount you are on,after he takes you off all other added pain meds except with BT pain.he should be titrating you up on the OC while taking you off the short acting endone,and dropping that codiene all together.codiene tends to really make me very sleepy but i do fine with oxycodone.the oxycontin just should not be the drug that is giving you the biggest problems.try dropping the codiene for a few days or all together and see what happenes with regards to your lack of energy.like i said before,the first release of only 5mgs of oxycodone is at one hour after ingestion and the next at around six,so i realistically cannot see this as being the problem.how long ago did you actually add the codeine?8mgs is enough to send you to sleepy land if you have a level of sensitivity to it.if you didn't have this problem with just endone,you shouldn't be having this problem with the added two doses of the OC it releases.the codiene just makes more sense.

just out of curiosity,just how much tylenol are you actually taking in in any given day?it should state the tylenol amount on the bottles.you need to add up the total.you really do need to add up your average intake daily.let me know what that is when you figure it out will ya?

the very best thing you can do if you are trying to really manage some severe pain here is to have your doc titrate you up to about 20 mgs at least twice a day(possibly 3 depending on your real pain) and have the endone used only when your pain really does break thru your base med,with a limit on how many endone you can actually take in one day.you just have alot of narcotics there that i don't think are being used in the right way.you personally have too much control over what you take and when and when dealing with strong narcotics,that is just a recipe for possible disaster with a strong potential for addiction beginning at some point.he needs to set you in a scheduled dosing plan that you agree to stick to.this is the best possible way to do pain management.any other way,espescially when using short acting meds,just leaves to much left to you.you just need direction and guidelines to stick to in this type of situation,you have to.it really IS in YOUR best interest.good luck,marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 07-01-2007, 05:40 PM   #7
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 183
Cup of coffee HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

I'm just wondering if it is the same doctor that prescribes all your meds. The pain meds, the Ambien, and Valium.

 
Old 07-01-2007, 08:02 PM   #8
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
patty62 HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

HI Globones, Feelbad and and ReachOut
OK, yes I only have one GP who does all the prescribing of my Medications- he is far too busy for his own good- but that is another story.
Maybe to give you a little more history I went to a PM specialist about 5 years ago- at that stage he put me on 80mg oxycontin twice a day...I seemed to tolerate it then but I decided I did not need that dose and started to reduce this is when I got to 10 or 20mg twice a day-sorry I can't quite remember, anyway I ended up in hospital a couple years ago after a supposedly simple procedure and I was somehow put on both Oxycontin and Endone 4 x daily- at that stage I finally got off the oxycontin (probably looking back wrong choice).
In Australia they do make 5mg Oxycontin SR (must admit I get a little confused by all the different names and rules for the same drug)
Where have I got to now 5 days on- I don't think I quite as drowzy, I have dropped the Endone and trying to half the codeine and panadol (tyenol)
I took 5mg Oxycontin @ 6-30am, I will probably take another 5 mg around 3-pm then again this evening at bedtime around 11ish. This morning I have also taken 2 tyenol (1,000mg paracetamol) one with 8 mg of condeine for a horrid headache-hurts to actually look at the computer- each tyenol tablet has 500mg paracetamol- so if I say take 6- I would be taking 3,00mg of tyenol I think that is correct.
If I sound a little short please not meaning too just trying to get this right. I know I can do it as I have done it before it would be so easy just to go back to the 4 Endone daily but I know that is not the answer. Also and I am not making excuses I am feeling a little "rattY" so please do not take anything personally I am very grateful for your advice/suppport. I live alone with my dogs so it is hard no-one to monitor or take-care. Again thankyou for caring, hope to hear back soon.
Love Patty

 
Old 07-02-2007, 08:45 AM   #9
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,133
feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

wow,so they actually do make a 5mg slow release oxy there?seems like it really wouldn't even be worth the effort to even take it considering the very very miniscule amount of what you would realistically be getting with the releases.it would be giving you only 2.50 at one hour and then the same at six.pretty low amount of oxycodone when trying to actually manage any real pain.its just too small ya know?quite frankly,you would get much better overall relief from the endone than the oxy at only 5mgs.i cannot believe they actually go thru the trouble of manufacturing this.taking your endone as directed every six hours just gives you a bit more relief than the oxy release would since it would be releasing at the very same amount of time,do you know what i am trying to say here?

when you went down from that 80mgs of the OC,was this under the supervision of your doc?just wondering if you halved the pills or actually recieved an Rx for the 20s.was there actually any time during your tapering of this where you did feel like you were just "right' at a particular dosing that covered your pain pretty well but did not make you feel crappy?if there was,this should be where you should go to now and then use the other oxycodone just for the BT pain.doing this all thru your doc of course.

as far as your overall tylenol intake,what you currently are at with the 3000mgs per day should not go up anymore than that.you are right at the "safe' level for what would be considering "handlable' for your liver for a chronic daily user like you are.the norm for occasional use is actually 4000mgs but that is not someone who is taking it on a daily or chronic basis.the liver can only handle 3000mgs and needs more time to rejuventate the needed metabolization chemical when there is alot of tylenol being hit at it on a daily basis.the kidneys also feel the effects too.this is why it is always important to look at your daily tylenol intake.my pain clinic will not even Rx any tylenol based meds anymore for any reason just for the tylenol issue alone.there should be availiable out your way by now,some sort of tylenol free form of immediate release type oxycodone.it would be like your endone without the tylenol.here it is called oxy immediate release(oxy IR) or roxicodone.you should look into it.

in my personal opinion and just reading a ton of posts and having gone thru my own addiciton issues,it really seems that the shorter acting meds are really the ones that hold a much higher potential for abuse and addiciton just becasue they give you the full amount of active ingerdient right away,hence the euphoria from them.i just do not get that at all from my oxycontin.that part went away a very long time ago and i have only had one 20mg raise since i started with my pain clinic and was actually stabilized back in april or may of 04,and that was needed because of a menicus tear in my knee.we also have a ton of other issues with that knee too,but i digress.

i think you just may do much better with an actual pain management doc than going thru your current GP.they just require more supervision and guidelines.this is really the only way i personally could even begin to go back onto any level of narcotics with my past history.the more guidelines and oversight you have now the less potential for eventual addiction to occur.you really DO need to look at your situation and do what you have to do NOW in order to pervent that addiction issue.it can happen before you even know it has got you.you just have too much control over your narcotic use without the proper supervision and accountability.its setting yourself up for some trouble down the road,thats all.trust me patty,you do not want to end up going down that road,espescially when you do have legitimate pain issues.you think life may be hard now,just wait,it CAN get worse for you.it can ALWAYS get worse.you just need to be making the best possible choices for yourself right now with the right pain management and oversight in place.

i really hope things go well for you.you may be able to find some good advice down on the pain management forum here.there are some very knowledgable people on that board as well who could also be of benefit to you and your current situation.just a suggestion for you.just take a little scroll on down to "pain management".the more informed you are about all of your pain management options availiable to you the better,thats all.this is really where a good pain management doc would come in very very handy.they can just offer you a much wider group of options and modalities to try and control your pain that no GP possibly can.just some thoughts to ponder.take care patty,Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 07-02-2007, 11:17 AM   #10
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,115
slipperyslope HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

PATTY62 Unless I missed it somewhere I will re read your post I don't see anywhere that you are an addict, or are you? I noticed someone asked you of you are one but you didn't answer the question so I am a little confused.. if not you might want to check out the pain board and post your concerns over there to, its under pain management on this forum. I don't get the feeling you are an addict or in recovery so your questions might also be viewed in a different way over on the pain board as you are a chronic pain patient right???
SS

Last edited by slipperyslope; 07-02-2007 at 11:17 AM.

 
Old 07-02-2007, 08:59 PM   #11
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
patty62 HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

HI Slippy Slope and Feelbad
Thankyou for your responses. NO, I don't think I have an addiction as yet, as my GP reminds me the way I dropped from 80mg to 20mg/10mg twice a day unsupervised was amazing. I think he just wants me to get on some Medication that suits me, before he changed me over last week the Endone 4x daily was wiping me out (but then I was having heaps of late nights-too many- not good)
The past 24 hours has been horrid- with this awful headache I have taken more TYenol and codeine ( I expect the headache is from reducing the Endone too rapidly) I think I worked out yesterday in fact the GP had taken 10mg daily off the previous dose... so this is causing problems too much too soon. The way I feel currently I am wondering if the Tyenol and codeine are causing the major problems not so much the opiates.
So, what your saying Feelbad, if I was taking 10mg oxycontin SR twice a day I would be getting the same as if I was taking the Endone 5mg- 4 x daily?? maybe I should do this as an interim...
Thankyou for telling me about the other board I did not know it existed I will check it out. I know I need some supervision.
Thankyou
Patty62

Last edited by patty62; 07-02-2007 at 09:01 PM. Reason: grammar

 
Old 07-02-2007, 10:58 PM   #12
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
patty62 HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

HI All
Its me again Could I please clarify- so up till last Wednesday I was taking 5mg Endone 4x daily, 1 oxycontin 5mg night and panadeine (tyenol and condeine when needed) for break through pain.
So I dropped the Endone altogether and the extra 5mg oxycontin at night _sorry not trying to confuse anyone.. let alone myself
what I am taking now is 5mg oxycontin 3x daily and supposedly panadiene as needed... this is how I worked out that the GP had dropped my total dose of Opiates by 10mg daily. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't this be too much to drop in one fell swoop.
Iremember when I weened myself off the 80mg- to 20mg a few years ago I think it was in 5 mg increments over many months.
Please I am asking as I don't want to muck this up- thinking too much pandeine doesn't rreally help headache....please help!?
Patty 62

 
Old 07-03-2007, 12:44 AM   #13
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
patty62 HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

HI
Just HELP- I honestly do not know if I can do this- pain, withdrawals, headache.... tears, scared.
Patty62

 
Old 07-03-2007, 04:25 AM   #14
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,400
reachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB Userreachout HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

Hello Patty

Patty...I understand so well your feeling unwell all the time and the fears of how the heck you can manage to get out from under this all. I am truly sorry to see anyone in torment like this and yes, I understand completely that it is torment. Because I can relate so well, it is painful for me to feel the desperation in your words. While I know that the feelings of despair can not be turned off woth a switch, please, please know that you are going to be okay and feel good again and feel happy again.

To be honest, Patty, I do not think you are an addict in the truest sense of the word. I think you have become dependent on opiates starting from true pain treatment and are now displaying addictive behaviour. Addictive behaviour in that through the various meds you are taking, you are getting a steady stream of opiate all day long and your body and brain have become totally dependent on this. Many of us have had the opiates take control of us in this very same manner. All of our meds are prescibed by a doctor, we stay within the prescribed dosages and we do not get into the chewing and shooting up of the meds. We are, however, still addicted to the meds to the same degree as a peasure user is addicted to the meds and share the same journey getting off the meds. We will also have a lifetime in front of us of always having a very healthy fear of any medication, especially those with addictive qualities like opiates, alcohol and tranquilizers.

There comes a point as we build tolerance to opiates and slowly increase the amounts and frequency we use them, that the opiates will 'turn' on us. As horrible as the results are, it is a very scientific and established process. Our pain never stops on them because as our bodies and brins demand more, pain signals go out trying to get us to up the amounts anfd frequency. these are not true pain signals, but signals from a confused brain. It is trying to get what we have substituted for natural chemicals in our bodies. The opiates slowly take over the job of the natural chemicals serotonin and endorphines and all those medical words. Our brains stop producing them because we have used the opiates to take their place. In withdrawing, we force the brain back into its natural state of producing these chemicals that keep us balanced. This, too, is a slow process and brings its own torments for a while.

Patty, we need medical guidance to come off opiates in my honest opinion and experience. It is not a week long process, but much longer than that. For me, I chose a long, long slow taper. It takes tremendous discipline and I probably could not have done it without a partner to take control of the meds and dole them out on schedule in the ever-slowly increasing doses. If all things are not in place for a long, slow tapering, then I believe to be successful, it needs to be a medically supervised detox at a facility going cold turkey or short term use of a med like suboxone for 7-10 days to help ease a cold turkey withdrawal.

I am going to stop now and let you absorb this information thus far and give others a chance for some imput. The most immediate steps I could recommend are a good read of The Sample Home Detox, the very first thread on this board. It will help you to prepare for whatever kind of detox you ultimately chose. The other step is an immediate call to your family doctor and with full honesty between the two of you, his help to devisse what seems to be the most workable plan.

Patty, as hard as it is to do, try to keep a level head in all of this. Keep the emotions in check as much as you can so that this issue can be tackled in a step-by-step, common sense manner.

With all hope
reach

 
Old 07-03-2007, 05:56 AM   #15
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,133
feelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB Userfeelbad HB User
Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

hey reach,i just wanted to say that i am in no way trying to undermine what you are saying here as some of it is so very true,but by the same token hon,i really do not see how you can equate a real dependency as addicton in the making?what i honestly see in pattys posts is someone who is needeing direction in taking these meds and getting her pain managed.i don't see escaltion or any other real addictive behaviors,just what comes naturally after being on narcotics or any other med for a long period of time,dependency.the lack of any real set guidelines by her Rxing doc appears to be the biggest issue here from what i see.she has too much control over what she takes and when and that it where a big problem can develop.believe me reach, i DO so know where you are coming from with this,but honestly just becasue someone is taking nacotics for pain management does not mean an automatic addiction will just be there.many factors actually play into whether or not any individual will or wont become addicted to any narcotics they are taking for legitimate pain purposes.for an opiate niave person going into pain management with very real chronic pain issues to deal with,the actual addiction rate for these people is only around 3% .compared to the overall rest of the population,i cannot remeber the numbers off hand,but the 3% is really quite a bit lower than that average.

there is just such a huge difference between dependency and a real addiction.my son HAS TO take his anti jection meds every single day three times a day or he will reject his liver,that does not mean he is addicted,just a real dependancy.his body would not do well without those meds at all.same for someone who is taking an anti depressant or high BP meds,you know what i mean?dependancy just does not automatically equate with an addiction.

personally,i have always felt that one huge part of addiction rears its ugly head when the Rxing doc is not giving the proper guidelines and Rxing oversight.they just do not question when they need to question why so and so is actually running out of their meds early.in my case,and i am NOT in any way blaming my doc for my addiction,but when i started calling him for early refills,he just "assumed' my pain was getting worse but never had me come in and speak with him,he just raised the amount i could take per month,you know what i mean?this just became an ongoing thing til about a year later when i realized,wow,i think i have a problem here.i just was not really aware that you could even become addicted to meds Rxed by your doc.seemed impossible that it could happen back then.the doc is always doing the right thing ya know?i was around 20 and stupid.never really questioned just why in the hell i was lying to my own doc(hello?)no one i ever knew got addicted to any sort of meds Rxed by their docs,or that i actually KNEW of.very well hidden secrets.all i knew is that i always just felt sooo much better after taking those meds.if something was just making me feel normal,how could it be wrong,ya know?

every Rx written by any doc for narcotics just needs a bit more oversight and very strict dosing guidelines.docs now have to document things so much more than they used to,just for the possible addiction potential with the meds they are rxing to people.chronic pain management just needs much more guidance and oversight than the average person who sees their doc for back pain or something.the guidelines that i have to follow to the letter thru my pain management doc makes me accountable for me and my use of my narcotics.the suprise pill counts and the suprise UAs,well they help tons to keep me compliant now.if i should fail,well,i am gone no questions asked,that is in my contract.not having even one dose of my pain med when i am supposed to be taking it honestly reach,i would not even be able to physically move to even attempt to get out of bed.that fear,that very big fear of actually having to really feel the full impact of my pain scares me into compliance.all of these different things,but mainly the constant monitoring and oversight and guidelines(along with NO early refills even with a theft and a police report.this just makes YOU more accontable for keeping your Rx safe,believe me) that i have to follow thru on when asked,this is really what keeps me on track.patty HAS TO have these types of guidelines or she can very easily fall into the addiction pattern.right now she just has too much control,that has to be passed along to her doc with some accontability if things do not all turn out at the end of the month with a request for an early refill or something you know what i maen?THAT alone would help so many people just stay on track with narcotic useage,but alot of docs just do not have the time or energy(or even want to?) to do this for all patients.chronic pain should just be managed in a totally different way than any other type.or anyone who is getting narcotics to treat pain on a regular basis.i mean when you look at the amount of people who have become addicted to pain meds and that rate is only going up now,something is very wrong somewhere,and i do think it is plain old accontability on both the patient and the docs part.something really does need to be fixed here since this appears to be escalating at an alarming rate every year.

even tho we are adults,sometimes we all need to follow guidelines when it comes to something we are taking that has the potential for creating disaster in our lives ya know?simple accontability and direction.it can be set up between any doc and patient but it just is not implemented enough.sorry,i will get off my box now.

i just really think patty needs direction and strict guidelines by her doc with accountability on both sides in order to prevent what could occur with repeated dosing at your own say.too much control and not enough simple oversight by my OB is what landed me where i ended up.it turned out that i discovered i was actually self medicating post partum depression.that is just what sucked me in.i did the rest.

sorry if i offended you reach,that was not my intent,really.i just saw that you were appearing to equate pattys dependency more with addiction than a dependency with not enough oversight.she was pretty much left to coming up with her own dosing plan and that is just not right with any meds at all.i just personally did not see anything really jump out at me as far as BIG warning/addiction signs ya know?is the potential there?oh yea,but right now i do think her situation would be made much better with much more guidance from her doc and some accontability on her part,thats all.so much agonizing crap could be prevented with just more accountablity on the patients and the docs part ya know?we all just need to have boundries.and some of us much more than others,but they just have to be there when taking any narcotics.the price is just too high when we are left on our own sometimes.hope we are okay reach.marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
endone side effects elfa Pain Management 0 04-03-2009 04:33 AM
endone for wisdom tooth neuralgia nars Trigeminal Neuralgia 1 01-30-2009 11:37 AM
Oxycontin lawsuit katlovesdogs Pain Management 4 12-16-2008 06:47 PM
endone and panadeine forte brio11 Addiction & Recovery 0 10-09-2007 05:28 AM
Endone/Oxycontin-urgent things getting bad patty62 Pain Management 6 07-06-2007 09:05 PM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Hydrocodone
Lortab
Methadone
Oxycontin
Percocet
  Tylenol
Ultram Valium
Vicodin
Xanax




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



Phoenix (150), katlin09 (108), reachout (100), Wendy88 (36), second go (36), oxygirl (34), corissa3 (32), Tysmom1 (24), icehouse3z (24), bolter (21)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1180), MSJayhawk (1013), Apollo123 (909), Titchou (857), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (763), ladybud (755), midwest1 (671), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:54 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!