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Old 10-13-2007, 01:42 PM   #1
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wheninrome1313 HB User
Why Suboxone???

Can I ask why some of you chose suboxone to come off of your meds? Is it because you were unsuccesful coming off what you were on, or because your doctor wouldn't give them to you anymore or wouldn't work with you on a taper plan? Is it easier than tapering? I am just curious because from what I hear, you have to taper of suboxone too and it just seems like replacing one narcotic for another. Also I heard that when you take Suboxone and you start having WDs you can't take anything else (like whatever you were on before) to make them stop, because the Suboxone blocks the receptors and wont allow any other narcotics in so you are kind of screwed.

Thanks!

 
Old 10-13-2007, 03:15 PM   #2
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Lou1 HB User
Re: Why Suboxone???

When I was in the worst depths of my detox from hydros and darvocet (10-14 a day of the 10 mg hydros), I was desperate to feel better and actually called a couple of local sub doctors to inquire about their programs. Every one of the doctors I called told me I would be on the sub a minimum of one year. I immediately decided that this program was not for me. Staying on suboxone for any more than a couple weeks is just resigning one's self to accepting one addiction for another with the eventuality of having to taper off the sub...which I know is a very tough proposition in itself.
I know there are individuals out there who feel that sub has been a life-saver for them and I am in no way "slamming" the program or anyone's choice to go this route. Obviously, choosing a doctor-supervised suboxone program is far superior to the hell of dealing with something like a heroin addiction on a daily basis, always worrying about running out and going into withdrawals with the associated desperate cravings. My personal situation was not quite as out-of-control that I needed to choose the suboxone route.

I think each person needs to analyze the severity of their addiction issue and decide which is best for them.

Good luck to everyone,

Lou

 
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Old 10-13-2007, 04:24 PM   #3
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Re: Why Suboxone???

Wheninrome:
I wanted to write about one of your statements about subaxone. Where u said that once on sub., and if u start feeling w/d's, u can't take anything bcuz of it blocking the receptors. Well that is true.....but, when on sub., you don't have any w/d's. Your supposed to start taking the sub., a certain amount of hours (like 72 i believe) after stopping whatever you were on before. So you are in w/d so that the med. actually works. But, once u start the sub., you don't have any w/d's anymore. It completely takes them away. And, you have no cravings. Which is a lifesaver as far as i'm concerned.
I understand completely that it is replacing one for another. But, with sub., it's not like u can take MORE and feel MORE high like other opiates. Like with vicodin or percs, people start out taking 2 a day...then up to 5 a day, then up and up and up. With sub., u stay on whatever doseage you doctor sees fit for the long run. You CAN"T take more and feel high.
And the good thing about sub., is that even if u were craving somehow, if u are to take a vic. or perc., you get absolutely NO high from it.
So for some, like my father who has chrnoic pain and has addiction issues bcuz he is always in pain and is also an addict, i found it to be a lifesaver for him. It was either him constantly relapsing bcuz he just wanted to get out of pain and taking WAY more than prescribed.....or finding sub. to work with his pain and taking his prescribed doseage every day. And not having the cravings to take anything else.
I watched my Dad suffer for 30 years......getting sober, staying sober for years, and then having severe bouts of pain that would put him in serious depressions and ultimately lead him to pain pills. He'd spoken of suicide before, just so he could get a break from pain. And i know how he feels (me having the same pain he has now and suffering on a daily basis).....
Now i am tapering off the sub. currently bcuz i want to have children....but i personally would have stayed on it for however long i thought necessary. Bcuz it really did keep my pain at bay and i wasn't spending days dreaming about how i could get some pain meds. and craving to the point of feeling paralyzed with depression.
So.....sub. is wonderful for some people. It really gives them a chance to live a normal life and yes, there will be a point of tapering...but if they do it slowly, under doc.s care, then it shouldn't be half as bad as the other opiates

 
Old 10-13-2007, 06:58 PM   #4
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wheninrome1313 HB User
Re: Why Suboxone???

Maggie-
So suboxone works for pain relief? Because it occured to me today, that I was so focused on my tapering schedule that I never considered what I am going to do for pain control. Because although I don't feel I need round the clock pain control anymore, I still have chronic pain that goes from tolerable levels to intolerable from time to time. I don't want to ever take something again where I have to increase dosages etc. But I know there is going to be times where aside from the normal craving for the way they made me feel, I will want to take something when in pain as needed and I am thinking that maybe suboxone will help with the cravings and the pain because I am afraid that I will call into the same pattern again if I go with a narcotic that give you the euphoric feelings! (I still have to have 2 surgeries next year and I haven;t even thought about what I am going to do yet) An ER doctor gave me torridol once for a migraine and that really worked. Maybe I need to look into that too.
Thanks for the information!

 
Old 10-18-2007, 06:35 AM   #5
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Re: Why Suboxone???

Hi There,
Sorry I never responded to this post, I just happened to find it when i looked back a page on this board.
Yes, Subaxone does help with chronic pain. My Mother is the one who was the first to start taking it. She's had back surgery (a BAD one, that caused more damage) and has chronic back pain. So she's been on a number of pain meds. throughout the years....and finally had enough with having to take such large doses to ease the pain (since tolerance was up from taking them for years). So her doc. put her on sub. She's been on sub. for about 2yrs., has stayed on the dose of 8mg and has never had to go up and has been amazingly better then she ever was before. No other pain med. has worked as well, but i really think that is due to the regular opiate meds. actually causing MORE pain after a while of taking it.
Then my Father started it bcuz of his chronic migraines (like me), and has had amazing results. He's been on them for about 1 1/2 yrs. Yeah, he has the occasional neck ache (but he's got arthritis in that so it's inevitable), but his headaches have gone from DAILY to ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH!!!!!!!
Check into it, for my Dad, it really saved his life. He was spiraling downward and i worried so much that he'd end his life one day. He was ALWAYS in such horrendous pain, and he'd tried and tried to get help. Tried MANY doc. and MANY meds., so it isn't like he wasn't doing all he could do. After 30 something years of having no luck, i worried for his health (from taking so much crap), and his life. God answered my prayers when he started sub. and it actually worked!!!!! Bcuz he's found meds. in past that worked, but only for a very short time...then they'd stop working. I'm all too familiar with that also, with headaches (which i have every single day), it's easy to become immune to med. and it not work anymore.
Anyways, i hope this info. helps u some. To me, knowing that BOTH my parents are on a low dose of ONE medication instead of a HUGE dose of many, makes me feel so much better for their health!

 
Old 10-19-2007, 08:42 AM   #6
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viking55803 HB User
Re: Why Suboxone???

What is often overlooked is the potential damage of the common painkillers because of their compounding - mixing Tylenol with hydrocondone, for example. The maximum recommended dose of Tylenol is 4 grams/day (or stated another way 8 500mg doses.) Liver damage can occur at levels above 4 grams. The compounding of opiates with Tylenol allows these drugs to remain a Schedule III drug which makes it easier for a physician to prescribe for temporary pain control. Long term use of these compounds can be hazardous.

The opiates are much safer and basically non-toxic at the doses we are talking about. The biggest risk of pure opiates is the potential for overdose and respiratory depression.

Therefore, the reason one should consider substituting is to reduce the risk of organ damage. Once on the substitute (like Suboxone) the decision about when and how to reduce and eventually eliminate the drug use is made when the patient is really ready to make a change. In the meantime, we eliminate the lying and scheming around that occurs around the addiction which is partly driven by the fear of losing your supply.

If one truly has no underlying pain control or other issues, it is certainly safe enough to go "cold turkey" but our experience in the addiction field is that not everybody is able to go directly from addiction to live a drug-free life without some intermediate steps. That's where harm reduction comes in.

 
Old 10-19-2007, 02:32 PM   #7
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Re: Why Suboxone???

Hi Viking. You make a very good point. I too can atest to the analgesic properties of suboxone. I have been taking this since Dec 06 and I sometimes need to take an ibuprofin, but usually not. I have been a chronic pain suffere for years. I should have quit playing ball when I turned 40

 
Old 10-21-2007, 11:30 AM   #8
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luvbnclean HB User
Re: Why Suboxone???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou1 View Post
When I was in the worst depths of my detox from hydros and darvocet (10-14 a day of the 10 mg hydros), I was desperate to feel better and actually called a couple of local sub doctors to inquire about their programs. Every one of the doctors I called told me I would be on the sub a minimum of one year. I immediately decided that this program was not for me. Staying on suboxone for any more than a couple weeks is just resigning one's self to accepting one addiction for another with the eventuality of having to taper off the sub...which I know is a very tough proposition in itself.
I know there are individuals out there who feel that sub has been a life-saver for them and I am in no way "slamming" the program or anyone's choice to go this route. Obviously, choosing a doctor-supervised suboxone program is far superior to the hell of dealing with something like a heroin addiction on a daily basis, always worrying about running out and going into withdrawals with the associated desperate cravings. My personal situation was not quite as out-of-control that I needed to choose the suboxone route.

I think each person needs to analyze the severity of their addiction issue and decide which is best for them.

Good luck to everyone,

Lou
I'm coming in a little late on this one, but I just got done reading this thread. I am sitting here letting my 8mg suboxone dissolve under my tongue as I type. I have done more research than anyone can imagine on sub. Just as with every other kind of dr, some are good at what they do, and some just plainly don't know what they're doing. The dr's you spoke to do not understand suboxone in any possible way. They signed up to prescribe it for the money. Its painfully obvious. Any good sub dr knows that no one knows how long you will be on sub. My dr told me it may be two months or it may be 2 years, or it may be the rest of your life. It is not up to the dr to decide when you come off sub, it is up to you. If a dr tells you when you need to come off, find a new dr. Only you know when you are ready to come off and will not want to start taking opiates again as soon as the sub wears off. I told my dr that I didn't want to be on it long term and certainly not for the rest of my life and he gave an example of a diabetic. They will have to take insulin for the rest of their lives. He said if you get off the sub and continue to crave opiates, then you need this medication to survive just like diabetics need insulin to survive. Now suboxone is supposed to work in the way that you take it to avoid withdrawals from narcotics AND to allow your brain to return to normal so that those receptors that crave opiates can heal. The time rate of this happening is different for everyone, so no one can tell you when to come off the sub. A dr saying you had to be on it for one year is absolutely ridiculous.

I have been on sub for one month now and go back to the dr this week. I have absolutely no cravings for any narcotics which absolutely amazes me. I figure we will cut down my dose to probably 4 mg. To the original poster who asked about having withdrawals coming off the sub, this is what my dr told me. He said that you have to taper slowly off the sub, all the while giving your brain the chance to return to "normal". And yes, there will be mild withdrawals, but nothing compared to what I went thru to get off the percocets. He said most of his patients have described it as a couple of days of feeling like they had a cold or minimal flu symptoms. That sounds nothing to me like what I went thru coming off the perc's--pure hell.

Hope I've helped some, if I can answer any other questions for you I'd be more than happy.

 
Old 10-22-2007, 07:39 AM   #9
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Re: Why Suboxone???

Hello all,
I am one of those people that will say that suboxone saved me. I had tried numerous times to get off of lortab but couldn't because of the w/d. So I switched to methadone. I couldn't quit that either as if you read around it's one of the hardest drugs to get off of. Now that I'm on the suboxone, I have no cravings, no w/d symptoms which is a miracle to me.. so If I have to take this a little while and gradually come off doing baby steps, that's so much better to me than going through hell for a month or so. I'm one of those people w/d lasts FOREVER... anyway, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. Hope everyone has a blessed day!!

g8trgrl

 
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