My story is below - it turned out kind of long-winded, so I moved it below my questions, in case anyone is short on time.
Question: I am going from Oxycodone 165 mg (abusing and sometimes using 3 times that) to new Rx for Opana 120mg per day (2) ER 40m and (4) IR 10mg. Has anyone gone from Oxy to Opana? If so, was it more or less, and how did you do with it. Does it seem to be 2x stronger like they claim? Do you think it would be easier, or harder to detox from?
Some of my pain med history:
I have been in a steadily escalating opiate addiction problem for about 6 years now. Whenever I think that I am close to running out and hitting withdrawal, I start reading this board to try to prepare myself tor the impending doom of detoxing. I have a professional occupation, and I have a wife and two kids 6 & 4, and I always face detoxing in secret, same as I am an always an addict in secret.
I started out borrowing a 10mg Norco or two from a family member for headaches, who has been in terrible shape from 10+ surgeries for 20 years. Has gradually progressed from Percodan and Norco up to currently about 500 mg of Oxy per day - OxyContin 40 and Roxicodone 30. Uses less, so I borrow when offered, and I also swipe extras - I feel extreme guilt for stealing from this family member. This went on for 3 years, and I started seeing the same Doc, for headaches and back and joint pain - some legit and some exaggerated. I was lucky (or unlucky) to be hooked up with his doc, and eventually worked up to my own Rx for OxyContin 40 @ 3 per day, and Roxicodone 15 @ 3 per day, so 165 per day. I would get this filled on a 3 month basis, and this last time, I ran out after 5 weeks, using all of it myself, always chewing it up, and very occasionally snorting. Not for the fun high, as I don't get that at all anymore, but just to feel more functional in my daily routine.
Needless to say, I was anticipating a very bad week, and 2 days before running out, I came clean with my doc. Well, sort of clean anyway. I explained what happened, taking almost 3 times Rx'd amount, due to extra pain and increased tolerance, and always trying to avoid withdrawal. So I sort of hinted at having a bad problem, but just not 100%. I ended up losing my 3 month privilege, and going to 1 month, had to sign pain contract for first time, and was switched to Opana - 120mg per day. Opana is supposedly twice as strong, so in effect I got a 1.5x increase from my 165 of Oxy per day.
What is keeping me in this cycle?:
1.) Occasional access to my family member's meds
2.) A very rare find in a family doc who will Rx this stuff and didn't cut me off - I also don't want to jeopardize my family member's source with this doc, needs it bad, and doesn't abuse it - so I have a hard time coming all the way clean.
3.) Professional job, need meds to perform normally now.
4.) Wonderful family, who doesn't know about this, wife suspected it a few years ago, made me stop, I lied and said I stopped, she failed to follow up or to offer help, (not blaming her).
5.) Some legit pain that is being managed very well with my addiction - overkill on meds has added my need to stay ahead of withdrawal and to stay normal feeling.
It feels nice to be admitting this to someone, and I really want to stop. I also got 60 Clonidine, so that might help when I do tackle this. I don't know if I should do it now c/t, or wait for Opana switch and to start tapering that.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for all of the advice I have read over the years from all of you. To all who have quit, I am in awe of your strength, and I hope to join you someday soon. I have had many "1st days" of detox and a few 2nd days, but I always manage to find more somehow, and always without going to the street or black market. So I hope to find the strength and help one of these days soon.
Last edited by OxyDiscontin; 11-03-2007 at 01:23 PM.
Reason: spelling, and wanted to make family member non-descript
Hi Oxy, I had similar situation as yours, young children, professional job, and legit pain. I was on "weak" pain meds for years, the past 4-5 only percocet 10's. Then went to pain managment due to tolerence, but knowing I was digging myself in deeper. I tried the opana and you get absolutly no high from it as you do oxycontin, or roxycodone. Thats what I ultimatly ended up on-320mgs a day of those. I finally had enough and checked myself into detox 41 days ago, and they used methadone over 4 days to detox me. I still dont feel right, but much better than I did. To answer your question, since you like the feel of oxycodone, you are not going to like opana. That could be a good thing for you to taper down and jump if thats what your aim is. My Dr. said it was stronger also, but it must be like methadone as you get no buzz. Heres the bottom line. If you want off oxy, then you would be best to substitue that with somthing that you dont like (opana) and do a fast taper down. Detoxing sounds scary, but its actually the easy part. "PAWS" and just trying to stay clean is the hard part. At least for me. I highly recommend getting away from the pills, because you have an addictive nature and your problem is going to esculate until YOU stop it. I did it for my to young daughters and my job, and thats whats keeping me going. If you have more questions just ask, I'll be glad to help as much as I can....
Hi Missy, Glad to hear you are doing ok! BUT, I have throw in my $.02 on sub. That is one of the most powerful narcotics there is, thats why you feel so good, kinda like methadone, it stays in you for 24-36 hours. I have heard of people on fast tapers which sounds like what you are doing, that did great. But also heard of people using it longer and the withdrawls from that are like methadone.
From what I've read try and be on it less than 10-14 days and then its not too bad. Some people have reported after being on it months that the accute withdrawl lasted months. Me personally could not handle that.
The oxy withdrawl last's 4-5 days, so I see no reason to be on sub any longer than that. If you do then your just asking for a harder time coming off that stuff than you original DOC. I'm no doctor so do as your Dr has instructed, but will add that I have lost a lot of my trust in dr's the past few years. I wish you the best!
I am well aware of the problems with Suboxone. I've taken none for 24 hours and feel just fine. It was my intent all along to be on it for as little time as possible because the taper off if you stay on it a long time takes months. Thanks for the feedback - I still have over 60 pills but don't see that I'll be using them. I'm working with a pain management doctor and he is really great. I'm a nurse and I truly understand the loss of trust in doctors as I know some really bad ones.
Good to see you posting. I am glad to see you have a desire to get off these extraordinarily high doses of opiates. I really hope you are able to do it.
I have come off oxycone myself, although the highest dose I was up to was 60mg a day plus Xanax (off that now, too). I am no professional and no counselor, but I must tell you, I do have some questions for you. In kindness, I ask you if you are truly planning to get off of them? If you are, then total honesty needs to be given to the doctor. So far, you have not been able to do it on your own and, frankly, where has it gotten you? Higher doses, much higher doses and no where else. You are not being truthful with your family, with your doctor, and I am not sure if you are even with yourself.
If I go to a doctor with a pain in my eye and tell him I have a stuffy nose, where would I get? I sure wouldn't get the best health help I could. I don't want in any way to dash your hopes; what I want is for you to be successful in this. And success only comes when we offer full disclosure to those who NEED to know. There is NO WAY a taper off these high dosages is going to happen without a LOT of signals coming from you.. a LOT. Withdrawal under any circumstances, no matter how we tackle it, is unbelievably hard.
Even now, Friend, it sseems there is more happiness in that the Opana will actually be stronger and more potent. Not a good way to start a taper by going stronger it doesn't seem in my thinking. All the reasons are listed as to why you continue on this path. Please reread them.... there are no reasons listed, just excuses. If you don't come clean to get clean, the family you are lying to by ommission (and the doctor) will end up losing all trust in you. You have kids? Do you want to set an example for them to lie when things are tough? C'mon!
These people love and care about you. Don't sell them short for Pete's sake. Do you not think they love you enough to support you through this illness, this huge problem in life? Or are you more afraid that if you come clean and out in the open that you are going to have to give up the pills?
You write that this has been an escalating problem for a number of years. Well, what you have been trying sure hasn't been working. What is different? Nothing that you have put forth. It is good that you have found the courage to post... now the courage must be found to do the things in Reality Land that have been started here. You are going to need real, live support as much, if not more than, the Board. It is scary, I know to spill your soul's darkest secret. However, do it and a huge weight will be lifted from you. Truly. Once we put it out in the open, we feel a greater committment.
Full disclosure. FULL disclosure... no half-truths and lying by ommission if we want all the help we need to get through this. If wanting it badly were enough, addicts would not find themselves out on the streetes ostracized from family and friends. NO addict can do it alone. They have to desire it badly enough to tell the truth and get the real help that is needed.
I am rooting for you. I know those in your life will be rooting even harder if you give them a chance to help you beat this horrible demon.
That is a POWERFUL post Reach. To be frank, when he said that he was going to a stronger narcotic, I didn't know what to say.
Oxydis: you are an intelligent man. I'm certain that you can see the insight in Reach's post. You can reveal your secret here and get help, but at some point, when the going gets tough, you will need the help of your family and doctor. That is what I had to do to get clean. My addict demon coerced me into lying, half-truths, denial... He was and is, alas, too strong for me to beat alone.
BTW, my sister in law visited us yesterday, and she knows about my addiction. My wife had a toothache, and called the dentist to get a script for the infection. My sister-in-law said, "Don't get any Vicodin," (my DOC), and looked at me. I confidently replied, "Yes, I am an addict and can't be trusted."
Good luck and stay strong,
Last edited by mk7657; 11-03-2007 at 07:31 PM.
Wow! Thank you so much everyone. Reach - you are great with words and insight - with me, and with all the others I have read here. I bet you could do this sort of thing professionally probably better than most professionals!
Anyway, you are absolutely right, I don't think I can hide a detox from family and work, and that's why I never make it past the second day. I am afraid to tell my wife - when this came up a few years ago, when I was only doing a few Norco's per day, she was only mad. I understand that, because you just don't have any idea how hard this is until it happens to you. She started using too many of the newer Rx sleeping pills for a few weeks a few years back, and she stopped easily, but she thought it was hard, and I think she thinks it would be like that for me. That's like comparing a no anesthetic root canal to cutting your fingernails.
I know I will have to come clean, and I will work up to it, with the end of November being my goal. It sounds like Opana might be good for me for tapering, if it doesn't have the nice feelings like Oxy, so I will try tapering all this month, and maybe I will be more confident in telling my wife if I have already made progress toward having a somewhat less horrible detox from the lower doses. I also think she is going to figure it out from seeing the EOB's from the insurance company, or I am afraid I will end up in the hospital for something, and she will find out from nurses or docs in there. I also worry about getting in a car accident, even a minor one, and getting forced to do a blood test, end ending up in the paper for driving under the influence of Oxy, especially when I am using my Rx 3 times too fast, and Oxy seems to be a media favorite these days. So I know I want to do this before she finds out from somewhere else, and that way she will know that I really do want to quit, and not just because I was caught.
One other problem in coming clean - my Doc is also my Dad's doc - he is in awful shape - tons of back surgeries, 3 hip replacements (1 broke, so that's why 3), numerous other health problems, disabled 25 years now. He needs his pain meds very much - he does not abuse at all - and I just am afraid to send up any red flags to the doc, and I would never get over the guilt if I ruined his source. There are not many docs in my area that would be nearly this liberal with Rx'ing Schedule 2's. I have definitely started though, and the doc picked up on it enough to make me sign the contract, and to only do 1 month at a time, and to go to a more even-feeling med with Opana. Doc still is pretty helpful though - gave me (14) 80mg Oxys to get by on while Opana is ordered. I made the mistake of asking for brand name, since it was only a few, and wow - they are definitely better than the generic footballs - just makes me want more - but at least my source for them is somewhat gone for now anyway while trying Opana.
Thanks all - I appreciate you and this board so much - Thanks for your kind words, your reality checks, your insight, and for listening to me.
Last edited by OxyDiscontin; 11-04-2007 at 08:39 AM.
Reason: *****n was ****'d?
Oxy --You have to want this. I am just like you. I have a pain pill addiction and I need to stop for myself, my family and my life. I have a beautiful wife and 3 kids also. There is NO WAY you will be able to do it without you r wife. For some reason, my wife is still with me after 5 relapses. But, once again I face DAY 1 with a clear head and a scared to death sole. We are all frightened to tackle the withdrawals, they suck. BUT there is light at the end of the tunnel. I am a living example that THIS BOARD can get you clean and also a living example that this board CAN NOT keep you clean. You have to do that. This is not easy. Please sit down and let it all out to your wife. You will feel sooooo much better. Look TAPER plans and have her hold the meds. Follow them to a T. I always new where she hid the pills and I would sneek a few here and there and it did no good in the end. The WD's arent that bad. So you feel like crap for a few days 4-5. You can do this. DO IT WITH ME.
Thanks again for all of your support and info - I am feeling stronger than ever in preparing for this.
This time, I have this board, I have some clonidine and some imodium and a bit of Xanax to help, and I feel like I am close to bottoming out mentally and physically. In the back of my mind, I have this hope that Opana will kind of be like a substitute version of Suboxone for my case, neither of which I have tried. If Opana doesn't give the high, and if it has a longer half life, then it does seem like a possible step toward Sub from Oxy. I will try a 3 or 4 week taper on Opana, and I will work on the huge task of telling my wife, and I will give this all I have this time.