I want you all to know that every morning I come to this board, whether I post or not, to help calm the withdrawals. Today I didn't feel like it at all. I thought I should kinda force myself because I know it's good for me and I usually do calm down after reading these posts. The mornings are the worst for me. I wake up shaking, sweating but cold and very very squirmish. I know this is the withdrawals but its been 9 days. Will it ease up soon? Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and I still dont know where I am going. I don't really care though because I have absolutely no energy. That, besides the w/d's is so hard. I want more energy. Is this going to happen? Will I eventually have my own energy, not drug induced energy? It feels so bad. I also know that I have to realize that I took the opiates so that I could "function" still don't know what that means but I remember feeling like responsibility for anything, school, life, cleaning, was way too much. I do have depression and am in therapy but when I got out of the psych ward, for good, that's when I started taking opiates. It's like I don't really know how to live. I can't remember what it was like before the hospital, drugs or a time when I didn't feel like day to day living was bearable. Will this get better?
Someone, Reach, emsmom, ANYONE does it get better? I do have hope, I am not in any way shape or form thinking of going backwards THIS monster is horrid, and I feel like there is a way for me to live I just have to find it.
Hiya Nanny.... Just read your post and felt awful for you...awful cuz I KNOW the feeling so well...but coming from experience, YES, it does get better. When I went through this the first time around, I was having these same exact feelings that you're having right now... I remember thinking the same thing - "will it ever get better"? - even though it took a little time (btwn 2 and 3 weeks for me) - it was SOOOOO worth it, because when it eventually DID go away, I felt like a brand new me. My life was back - *I* was back - normality was back.... I saw a me that I was unsure I would ever see again. It was a complete new beginning, so please, HANG IN THERE! It shouldnt be very much longer, believe me.
Thinking of you, and praying for you,
Thanks for the quick reply. I'm still stuck on this computer chair, hoping for the energy to get some water, my mouth is really dry from the clonidine. I do feel a little better just reading all the posts, and how people have come out the other side.
God I know what you mean about the dry mouth. Just two days ago I couldnt even hold down water when my mouth got dry, and look where I am now.... There IS light at the end of the tunnel....I cant stress to you enough that you WILL get thru this - and when you do, you will feel like you are starting an entirely new life....an entirely new you!
Every thing I used to do.....every where I used to go - all revolved around poppin that little sucker in my mouth to get it going It almost feels like I'm saying goodbye to an old friend....but in reality, it's saying goodbye to an old demon.
Anyway, back on track.... I'm gona be completely honest with you - from my first experience, you are allllmost there. It was either day 10 or 11 for me back then that I started to feel human again....when the w/d level dropped WAYYYYY down and I could function again.
HANG IN THERE Nanny... you are sooooo close!! We're all here for you....this is the best place you can be!
Keep us posted.
Hey capt. ---Love the name by the way! I have some good news and some tough news this am. The good news is that I PROMISE if you stick with this you will get better. I know you hear that all the time from some of us but its true. The bad news is that you truly will not feel relief UNTIL you either level off on a taper which takes about 1-2 weeks OR you get ALL of the drugs out of your system. I was so frustrated and scared 3 weeks ago when I told myself I would quit and taper off hydro but I ran out because I AM AN ADDICT and I cant control myself to follow a TAPER!!! So I was stuck having to work just like you (with kids) and it was really hard. I countered the wd's with small amounts of codeine and darvocet which only prolonged the pain. I did that for 2 weeks then had some time off for this holiday and went total CT. I couldnt have made a better choice. I guess what I am telling you is that the WORST was at the beginning when I dumped the HYdro. That stuff is nasty and it really causes deep withdrawals. Nothing like the codeine or darvocet did. Sorry I blabbed away, but I thought some of this would help. Have you ever been clean? or is this your first time coming off meds? keep posting
"1 is too many and 1000 is not enough" -
welcome to the new beginning of your life. If you werent' feeling uncomfortable at this point, you wouldn't be detoxing. think of it as a beginning of a new and better life for you. you may not feel that right now being you're feeling so horrible, but remember this..... it passes. the pain, the ill feeling does NOT last forever. our minds think we're going to stay that way forever and then we panic and then wind up taking the medication again to feel normalized.
actually it's not normal to feel like you have to take medications to live a good life.
I am on methadone beccause I wasn't able to kick the withdrawals all by myself like you are. I knew it was going to be exchanging one addiction for another, but at least Id be able to keep my job, get up in the morning,sleep peacefully at night without having horrible leg cramps all night.
then I gradually went down in dosage thru 7 years SLOWLY. no rapid detox for me again.
I've always dabbled into some form of drug all thru my life. not a constant thing but on and off. I snorted heroin and thought I would'n't become addicted to doing it that way. I've never shot up before in my life and never will.
but a drug is a drug regardless how it's ingested.
I thought I'd be able to do the drug just on weekends every now and then. and before I knew it, my body started getting sick without the drug and i found i needed more and more of it.
I realized I was in trouble. I didn't want to lose my life and lose my dignity.
no one ever plans on becoming a drug addict. it just happens. and it happens so quickly. there is no such thing as doing any drug in moderation to feel good.
I was determined to learn how to feel good in life and love life like we did when we were kids.
we come out of our mother wombs without the need for substances to make us feel good because we feel good on our own.
we didn't need coffee to wake up as a child, nor have to put smoke into our lungs to give us energy, nor did we have to take pills to feel good. we felt good all on our own.
I told myself I want my body back to the way it was when I was a child. drug free and free of anything that is harmful to the body.
we CAN do it. IF you want it badly enough, you will do anything to reach that goal. nothing will stand in your way. believe me. I am testimony to that. and I don't feel like a strong person either. some say only if you're strong can you do it. that's bull.
it's the mind that makes you do things. it's the mind that makes us feel like we can't do it.
remember, the feelings shall soon pass. everyone's detox is different than one another because we all have different bodies and problems.
here are some things to do while detoxing. you dont have to follow them all, just pick out the things that you find easiest.
If you ever need to talk, I'm here for you. I'll try to help get you thru this the best I can. That's how much I KNOW you can feel better again and start to enjoy your life on your own. you might need some assistance with therapy and with some type of anti depressant or anti anxiety medication.
some people's brains don't produce enough chemicals to feel good, especially after doing harmful drugs, so therefore you might need to get on those types of meds that restore the chemicals that you may not be producing normally.
it's ok. it helped save my life. I remember when the medications started to work for me.
I was sitting in our car at a park eating a wedge and potato chips with my boyfriend and our dog. I heard the children laughing and playing and people were playing base ball. all of a sudden this veil was taken off my eyes and I was able to see the sunshine and the plants that were just budding, becaue it was Spring time. I could smell the fresh air and I felt so happy inside.
I hadn't felt that way in what seemed years!!!
and to think I actually fought taking those medications from my therapist and family dr's for years. I wished I had taken them sooner.
they said because of my imbalance emotionally, I turned to drugs to self medicate. they said I have bipolar which I don't think I do. I know I have GAD, which is general anxiety disorder, not like panic attack anxiety and I have post traumatic stress disorder too which I didn't know i had. all these mental things added up into one and there fore made my life harder to live.
here are some suggestions during the period of your detoxing. remember, your body is getting rid of the drug. it's a good thing to sweat all those toxins out. drink plenty of water when you can.
Here is what helped this person when she detoxed off Vicodin, Valium, & Halcion years ago:
~ Rest as much as possible. Even if you can only sit down for a few minutes here and there, grab it.
~Immodium for diarrhea. Eat bland food and stay off dairy until your tummy settles down.
~Antacids-they seemed to take the edge off the burning in my stomach.
~Cheerios-I kept a baggy of them in my purse and munched on them to ease the queasiness.
~Heat bags/pads-helped with the aching joints and muscle spasms. Felt really good to lay one of those heated grain bags on my tummy or chest.
~Ice packs-use on the back of the neck for headaches.
~Ibuprophen-used for pain. Take with food and only if tummy can handle it. Be cautious of Tylenol if you took meds with it in it to excess.
~sunglasses/hat-for light sensitivity which triggered migraines. Lightly tinted glasses for the house. Reduce glare anywhere you can in your home.
~ear plugs-for noise sensitivity and to help sleep at night.
~music-soft, happy music seemed to distract me.
~TV/radio/internet-I made it a point to not watch or listen to anything negative on the media. I didn't read the paper for months. I read only as much positive media as I could.
~positive friends/family-I asked my very closest loved ones to indulge my need to let my nervous system rest and asked that they put anything negative on hold for a few months. That was hard to do, but very helpful.
~limited outings-I drove as little as possible and avoided crowds, stores to avoid getting sick to protect my stressed immune system.
~beta blocker-to reduce my high blood pressure.
~calcium/magnesium supplement-for calming the nerves a bit.
~ positive imagery-even at my most miserable, I tried to spend a few minutes each day imagining wellness and a happy life/whole body. I gave thanks each day for my life and for every day clean.
~blankets and pillows-I had them on the couch and bed-ready for moments when I could crash for a few minutes. I think flannel is especially soothing.
~tea-hot tea w/out caffiene helped soothe.
~water,water-drink enough water and soak in a warm bath or linger under a shower. helps with the achiness.
~sunlight-if my eyes weren't too sensitive, I went outside and let the sun get on my skin for a while-it does help the moods.
~anti-depressant-mine helped more than I realized! I tried detoxing off them,too, and felot really awful, so I went back on them and will stay on them for a while.
~gardening-once I was strong enough, I gardened and found that it was very calming and uplifting to my spirit.
~ noise reduction-my heart pounding in my ears constantly was noisy enough-I reduced the noise in my house as much as possible, whenever possible.
~relaxing the standards-I knew I wasn't going to be up to par for a while and learned to just forgive my messy self and home.
~aromatherapy-I slept with a little bag if lavandar seeds for months! For a while, my sense of smell was so acute that many odors were noxious to me, so I wore perfume I loved all the time to 'counter' the icky smells of the world.
~cotton-cotton sheets, blankets, clothes and jammies help during the sweats. Baby wipes for freshening up quickly. Whenever I changed the sheets, I thought about how they represented one more night of being clean. And how the sweat was my body's way of purging toxins.
Oh, and of course, check with your Dr. about any meds first!
What a great post from Lintek. So many, many good coping tips to use during the withdrawal stage. I was struck during my own withdrawals how very autistic-like we become in the symptoms of withdrawal... light too bright, sound so loud and distressing, crowds too hard to handle. I have studied autism.. always had an interest in it because occassionally I would encounter and work with high level autistic kids in education. This is what many of their receptors in their brains are like constantly because of the autism. The world around them is full of harshness with sound, color, light. Too much to bear for many. And that is just how withdrawal was for me, coupled with super high anxiety that felt so fear-filled. I employed many, many of the techniques Lintek listed and I am very grateful for her entire post. (Thank you Lintek).
The physical restoration, Captnanny, happens in very small stages that can be hard to recognize. I kept a detailed (And I do mean detailed!) log with my first taper for many, many weeks. That is the only thing that forced me into really accepting I was getting better. I logged the amount of crying, and the duration of it, all day long ( among other things). It was only because I could see the proof in black and white, written by my own hand, that I knew for sure that I was honest-to-goodness getting better in those baby steps. It is not an event, but a progression, Captnanny. A progression that is so hard to see in the early days, but does become more and more apparent as the days and weeks move along. for me, there was no miraculously startling day when I awoke and said, "OH! I AM HEALED!" It was more a series of times when recognition came that I had done better over the course of the present day than I had for the last few days. The body, the brain, the spirit... it is awe inspiring the ability these things have to heal in us. Just total awe. It just takes time for this fantastic progression to get completed. Like learning language.. we start off with a few 'mama's' and dada's' and are not complete until we progress to rambling off ten word sentences. And it took us time to get there.
The healing is happening for you, Captnanny. Try to stay in the here and now and put effort into recognizing a baby step here, a baby step there during the course of the day that signals the progression is, indeed, moving right along. At some point, the baby steps turn to toddler steps, and then, eventually, to full and confident strides.
Thanks for all your posts, especially Reach and Link. I too have PTSD and am taking antidepressants that do help. I believe that this is true withdraw and I am so scared to go down on the norco. I went from 50 mcg of fentanyl to 8 norcos a day. On monday it will two weeks and am thinking I should go down by a half. I have not brought this up to my doc yet, is it too fast? I don't know, I want off this stuff so bad, I am already detoxing A LOT and have to go back to work twice a week next week. Monday was so hard, I am already freaking out over the "possibilty" that it might happen again. I have to stay in the moment. Here right now in the present. Monday is not for five more days. Today my back is spasming, my stomach is in cramps and I can not get myself to take a shower, sorry for the details but honesty. I did go to the grocery store to get a multimineral and gatorade. It was hard because it's the day before thanksgiving and it was a mad house.
I will keep up the posts, and I am starting a journal today. I also will use some of the tips that link pointed out.
tat thanks for being there.
Hey Cap.... Here was how my taper went this time around....maybe it'll help ya a bit.
For yearssss I was on THREE 80mg Oxycontin a day, with anywhere from TWO to EIGHT or TEN 30mg Oxycodone for breakthrough pain. (and yes, in between this I had attempted Fentanyl for three months.... 150 mcg every 48 hrs.) The day I ran out was the day I went to my doc appointment and learned they were closed (bas**rds!!). So I went to my GP, and all he would give me was 120 10mg Oxycodones. So I went from the 3 80's and lets say 10 30's down to 12
10mg's Oxycodones a day to start. Let me tell you, day one was absolute HELL. Vomiting, the runs, chills, sweats, shin pain and restlessness....you name it! I stayed on the 12
10's a day for a few days - and day THREE I started to fee human again. The pukes n runs were gone, but the headache and depression remained.... I then went down to 8 of the 10's a day, and day 4, 5, and 6 were actually not that bad - just a little shin pain and restlessness in the legs remained, and on day 7 I went down to six a day for the reainder of my 'stash'. Day 8, 9, and 10 were amazing....I couldn't believe that I was already starting to feel human again. So....now we come to day...ohhhh, I think it was 11 or 12 and I was OUT!! I feared the worst, but I actually believe that the initial switch from the 80's & 30's to the 10's was the 'big hit' for me. Yeah, I was a little sick from the CT, but in no way was it as bad as the first big drop. I had another 5 or 6 hours of the runs and sickness - and a full 48 hours or so of the restlessness and aches (pretty bad) - and here I am on day three of the Sub and I feel AWESOME! And I mean awesome. I coud have never in a million years have dreamt that the Sub would be that good. Have you ever entertained the thought of trying Sub? It *is* a little 'spensive,, but I tell you, worth every penny.
But anyway....sorry to have babbled as much as I have....I just wanted to give you a little in sight as to how the taper went for me.
Hope you are hanging in there....and keep us up to date.... Because one thing I have REALLLLY noticed, is that everyone on these boards care....realy care.
Last edited by tat2duser; 11-21-2007 at 04:09 PM.
Reason: forgot to add something
What a wonderful group of caring people here. I find that most of us that are hurting inside and out are the best and kindest people I"ve come across in life.
they understand life more, they have more compassion for others and have a better understanding of life.
we're more sensitive than others and it strengthens us some how. we don't seem to see that right away but the best part comes when we've reached our goal.
I want to wish you all a happy thanksgiving.
you're doing just fine captnanny. try not to think ahead. I tend to do that all my life and still do. Your memory remembers how uncomfortable you were that day, which means it may not be like that again, because every day is a new day. every moment changes and never ever stays the same. you can't go backwards and you can't go forward into time. the only thing you should be focusing on is now. but it's extremely hard to control our thoughts. the brain is such a small organ and it causes so many problems for us. thought can cause us so much problems and we worry about tomorrow or days ahead when that day hasn't even arrived yet. I feel if we can get through that barrier, than maybe things would be easier. My life is very complicated and never seems to be a dull moment in it. I"m trying to change that with all my might and find it very tiring at times.
I found some information that helped me and maybe it will help others too.
this is some info on addiction and dependency.
Addiction: Addiction is a neurobehavioral syndrome with generic and environmental influences that results in psychological dependence on the use of substances for their psychic effects and is characterized by compulsive use despite harm. Addiction may also be referred to by terms such as "drug dependence and "psychological dependence. Physical dependence and tolerance are normal physiological consequences of extended opioid therapy for pain and should not be considered addiction.
Analgesic Tolerance: Analgesic tolerance is the need to increase the dose of opioid to achieve the same level of analgesia. Analgesic tolerance may or may not be evident during opioid treatment and does not equate with addiction.
Chronic Pain: A pain state which is persistent and in which the cause of the pain cannot be removed or otherwise treated. Chronic pain may be associated with a long-term incurable or intractable medical condition or disease.
Pain: An unpleasant sensory and emotional experience associated with actual or potential tissue damage or described in terms of such damage.
Physical Dependence: Physical dependence on a controlled substance is a physiologic state of neuroadaptation which is characterized by the emergence of a withdrawal syndrome if drug use is stopped or decreased abruptly, or if an antagonist is administered. Physical dependence is an expected result of opioid use. Physical dependence, by itself, does not equate with addiction.
Pseudoaddiction: A pattern of drug seeking behavior of pain patients, who are receiving inadequate pain management, that can be mistaken for addiction.
Substance Abuse: Substance abuse is the use of any substance(s) for non-therapeutic purposes; or use of medication for purposes other than those for which it is prescribed.
Tolerance: Tolerance is a physiologic state resulting from regular use of a drug in which an increased dosage is needed to produce the same effect or a reduced effect is observed with a constant dose.
Lintek, I noticed you are online also. I want to let you know that after I reread your post about how determined you were to feel good in life and be able to laugh and love life like kids do. I know that we were all meant to feel good. I believe that, feeling good without drugs is my intention and I believe my hp's intention. I am starting to reaize that I have to be grateful for little moments. Like I giggled reading a post, wow i laughed. I am proud of myself for doing that and admitting it. It feels good to note a positive instead of always feeling so bad. I have to and this is the hardest part, take it for what it is a moment, I can't let myself think that this over. So I am now telling myself that right now is ok, I don't know what will be next, so I have stay in the now. That is very hard and I don't think I am making anysense at all right now. I'll be back later.
Happy Thanksgiving Capt Nanny! What you said made perfect sense.
Hang in there and try to enjoy the holiday, whatever you are doing this day.
I woke up with a headache and sore throat. argggg. I have till 4:00 to feel good enough to eat, fortunately I'm not the cook!
how was everyone's TG's?
Mine was EXHAUSTING!
I thought my daughter, age (23) was going to cook, or at least attempt it. she got as far as peeling the potatoes and cleaning the string beans. She really wanted me to do it being she's just learning how to cook all the meals she grew up with.
my kids love food as much as I do. We regard food with love, and with warm memories of being together like we used to when they were little when mommy would be always cooking something up in the kitchen.
so I kept telling myself as I was struggling through the hours to get the food all prepped and cooked that I was doing this for my children.
then as we sat down to finally eat, one of my children asked" what are you thankful for mom"?
well I almost fell off my seat and had to ask "huh"? "what did you just say"? I thought I heard wrong.
That alone made all the achiness in my spine, the weakness I endured from having to stand up all the hours having to push myself to complete everything made it all worth the effort.
I will never forget it.
it came from the mouth of my youngest daughter age 18, (who THINKS she's 28) She is the one that is having a difficult time in life right now. trying to find out who she is and what she wants to do with her life. she got caught up in the drug world and I've tried with all my might to pull her out of it.
It doesnt work. I can put her in a rehab hospital, before she was 18, but once they're of legal age, you need two dr's to agree that she needs to be admitted in a psychiatric hospital.
she used to leave the house at night through her window and I'd find her gone when I woke up. I had to call the cops on her once and have her arrested for assaulting me physically. It couldn't be any worst at that point.
but since she's been living her life the way she wants to, without direction, she's beginning to see what it's like out there in this hard, cold world if you're not prepared for it. she's realizing that when she's hungry, she can't just go into a refrigerator and take food out. she knows what it's like to have an empty frig now and she knows what it's like to not have the leisure of cream rinse for her long hair and she's even had to use a bar of bath soap to wash her hair. she knows what it's like to not have transportation when she needs it or have to wear clothes two days in a row or more.
she came home to me one day as meek as a bird. FINALLY, something has clicked in her.
I thought I'd never see the day.
so believe me when I tell you, when I heard the words come out of her mouth, "what are you thankful for mom"? I wanted to cry with Joy.
she started it and everyone went around the room stating what they were happy for.
it turned out to be a beautiful day being with all of my children with the exception of one who did not come join us.
Now I have to get my rear into gear and finish applying for disability today on line. it's tedious and you have to have everything together so you're prepared for their questions.
I pray to GOD that I get accepted.
If anyone prays here, could you PLEASE put in a prayer for me?
It's so needed.
and by the way Captnanny,
you made PERFECT sense to me what you were saying about being in the "now". You know you're on the right path when you feel confused about what you're saying. it kind of messes with your mind sense of feeling.
it's the brain not knowing how to do it because it only knows the way we were raised since childhood and taught in school how to be like everyone else in this world. instead of us learning ourselves and exploring hands on experience , we're taught to "parrot".
We hear what they say to do, so we do it. we read a sentence and then quote what we just read to learn how to do something.
we as humans want to be shown how to do things instead of exploring for it ourselves.
. we never want to make the effort to do it ourselves because we're afraid it's too hard and that we can't do it.
did you ever notice there's every type of self help book imaginable on the shelves, but do they really work? people are excited about it at first and then wind up not being able to stick to it.
HOW I wound up on this subject, I don't quite recall. but I did and I hope I"m making sense.
I hope you don't think I"m some type of guru hippy woman from the past.
I'm just learning and having fun as I go along in life.
just wanted to say hello to you all this Friday morning.