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Old 07-05-2008, 07:15 PM   #1
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tiredone47 HB User
Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

I have been looking over this board for some help to some questions I have. I am an addict to hydrocodone. I found a physician whom I like very well who participates in the suboxone program. Back last December 2007, he started me on Subutex and I was on that 3 times daily for about 2 weeks. He then started me on the suboxone 3 times a day at 8 mg each. I am STILL on this dosage. Is this normal to be on this dosage this long? I am getting a little concerned. Is "detoxing" from suboxone as bad as detoxing from hydrocodone? Maybe I am just not educated enough to understand how this suboxone is supposed to work. My doctor tried to explain it to me, but I was under the impression that it would be a lot quicker taper than 7 months. I look so forward to the day when I can go without taking anything and feel good. I'm so tired of this addiction. It has caused so much pain and anguish in my life and I am so tired of disappointing myself as well as those I love. So, I guess my question is this....how much longer can I expect treatment with suboxone to last and how bad is it going to be when I taper. The doctor told me it was very minimal for most all of his suboxone patients if any at all. I'm scared all over again. It's kind of like fighting fire with fire. Can someone explain to me in simple everyday terms...just how is it supposed to work? All the best to everyone. Thanks for being here.

 
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:14 PM   #2
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g8trgrl15 HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

Hey tiredone.. I like that name..

There are so many mixed opinions about suboxone. My best advice to you is to trust in your Doc. He's got the degree and hopefully knows what is best for you. As you probably know, everyone is different. It all depends on how long you were taking your drug of choice, and how much of it you were taking. Some people stay on sub for life. If you think about it, it's a much better choice than to be in the throes of addiction and taking 10-50 pills a day and wondering where you're going to get your next fix. So am I glad I found it? Absolutely. I too, thought that I would be off of it before now, and I got down to 1mg and stepped off.....but I wasn't fine. In fact, I went 2 weeks and didn't get any better. I just had 0 energy and felt really bad. SO I went back to my sub Dr and he said that my body wasn't producing any natural endorphins, so I needed to be on it a little longer. I only take 2mgs a day.. no more, no less. I think I will go see him one more time and then start a very slow taper if he thinks it's ok. I've been taking it almost 10 months now. But I take it in the morning, and the rest of the day I don't have to worry about anything. I just go about my day. It's wonderful. Hope this helps some, and best of luck in your journey!

g8trgrl

 
Old 07-07-2008, 02:13 PM   #3
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Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

G8trgirl is right...be very honest with your doc and do what he advises. When I was in active addiction, I took huge amounts of Oxycontin. The dr started me off on 24mgs. I've tried to come off it a couple of times without success but some people come off it very easily. I have now tapered down to 2mgs each morning and I do fine. I've been on that dosage for almost a year and been taking sub for almost 3 total. I've resigned myself to the fact I'll probably take a maintenance dose the rest of my life. It's not what I want but doing what I want has always had very bad consequences. It's a lot better than chasing that high every minute of every day.

 
Old 07-07-2008, 03:11 PM   #4
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Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

if your doctor says there is no problem getting off sub and he has kept you at a very high dose this long--i'd get another doctor asap, because this one does not know what he's doing. sub is much stronger than morphine--MUCH stronger than hydro's. you should have been tapering all this time, because the longer you are on sub--the worse the withdrawl and paws can last a very very long time. this is NO miracle drug--it's just another opiate--a much more powerful opiate with a very long half-life. the withdrawl is very similar to methadone and just as long. sub has a ceiling effect at 8--16mg, so taking doses higher than that are not necessary and usually cause unpleasant side effects. with sub "less is more" is the general rule of thumb, meaning the lower you go, the better you feel. because sub is an agonist at lower doses and acts as an antagonist a higher doses. <removed> your dr. is a fool. most dr.s have no idea of the powerful drug they are prescribing. all they have to do is take an 8 hr on-line course to be certified to prescribe sub. it's a big money maker for them and most sub dr.s want cash--there are VERY few that will take insurance. i recommend you find an addictionologist who knows what they're doing. i'm not trying to scare you, but you are in for a very rude awakening when you try to get off sub if you believe your "doctor."! do as much research as you can now, so you'll know what you are up against.

Last edited by mod-anon; 07-07-2008 at 10:12 PM. Reason: do not instruct members to do outside searches

 
Old 07-07-2008, 03:23 PM   #5
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kellibear HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

Quote:
Originally Posted by g8trgrl15 View Post
Hey tiredone.. I like that name..

There are so many mixed opinions about suboxone. My best advice to you is to trust in your Doc. He's got the degree and hopefully knows what is best for you. As you probably know, everyone is different. It all depends on how long you were taking your drug of choice, and how much of it you were taking. Some people stay on sub for life. If you think about it, it's a much better choice than to be in the throes of addiction and taking 10-50 pills a day and wondering where you're going to get your next fix. So am I glad I found it? Absolutely. I too, thought that I would be off of it before now, and I got down to 1mg and stepped off.....but I wasn't fine. In fact, I went 2 weeks and didn't get any better. I just had 0 energy and felt really bad. SO I went back to my sub Dr and he said that my body wasn't producing any natural endorphins, so I needed to be on it a little longer. I only take 2mgs a day.. no more, no less. I think I will go see him one more time and then start a very slow taper if he thinks it's ok. I've been taking it almost 10 months now. But I take it in the morning, and the rest of the day I don't have to worry about anything. I just go about my day. It's wonderful. Hope this helps some, and best of luck in your journey!

g8trgrl
your dr. is correct to say that your body is not producing enough endorphins--that's because you have been on an opiate--which is an artificial opiate that makes your body stop producing it's own. going off ALL OPIATES is the ONLY way your body will ever start to produce on it's own. going back on sub to "produce more endorphins" is absolutely ridiculous!! you're still putting in an artificial opiate--and your body will never start to make endorphins until all the artificial one's are gone! if you want to make more endorphins--get off all opiates and then go on low dose naltrexone and take the amino DLPA. LDN will boost endorphin production by 300%--that is ONLY 3--4.5mg a day at bedtime. not the regular 50mg naltrexone--that defeats the purpose of making more endorphins. but there is NO WAY you will ever start making endorphins while you are on sub! the only thing that will naturally cause your brain to make more endorphins is time--and the longer you're on sub, the longer it will take.

 
Old 07-08-2008, 11:03 AM   #6
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CLEANandSOBER HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

I have been on Suboxone (2nd time around) for about 2 months and my Dr. has me at 24 mg a day. I cannot take a whole tablet at once because is makes me so physically tired and heavy I could not work. I break them in half and take them about 2 hours apart. My worry is that I have been on 24 mg too long. I spoke with my Dr. and he told me I should be in no hurry toget off the Suboxone. He said he wants to go slow andsteady. But how long do you stay on 24 mg? I honestly think I could handle a lesser dose but I will listen to what he says. I do have a major problem sleeping though and thought maybe Suboxone had something to do with it. But then again I am coming off of 60 Ultram tablets a day so...go figure. I am curious though...I have read here that Suboxone is stronger than vicoden or morphine...where is that information located?

 
Old 07-08-2008, 01:59 PM   #7
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g8trgrl15 HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

Kelli,

I can tell by your posts that you are very against sub.. but as I said, everyone is different and it is a controversial subject. I didn't say that I got back on sub to "produce endorphins". I got back on it because I couldn't stand the way I was feeling off of it, and even after 2 weeks my body wasn't picking up any. I feel that a person's brain needs time to heal after being in addictive state of mind for so long, and it's proven that sub can help you get through the recovery stage because it doesn't produce that "high" feeling. But I'm not on this board to discuss the pros and cons of suboxone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about it. I do wish that I had done research on it before I started it, but I didn't know what the Dr was going to do for me once I went to see him. All I know is that I was desperate for help and that he gave it to me. I see now that this medicine will be harder to get off of than I realized. But can it be done? Absolutely. You just have to have the will to do so and get down to the smallest dose possible.

 
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:18 PM   #8
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Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

I think you are going in the right direction g8rgrl. Like you said, no two people are alike and some people take a dim view of sub and try to force their opinions on others. The bottom line is I'd much rather take 2mg of sub and feel fine (without any high) than chase my drug of choice. I go to a very experienced addictionologist that is in recovery himself and he has indicated to me that some people simply do not produce enough endorphins to function "normally" and the sub is a much better alternative than oxys, or vicodin, etc.

 
Old 07-11-2008, 03:27 AM   #9
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tiredone47 HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

I can't thank you all enough for your replies. I take everyone's opinion very seriously and I will ask more questions at my next appointment. I did want to mention that my doctor DID try to lower me down to 2 pills per day, but I felt I was going through withdrawals at that dose. I told him about it and he mentioned to me that more than likely it was mostly psychological because sub stays at a level in ones system for 24 hours or something to that effect. It's just a confusing drug to me. Granted, I would rather be on a small dose and a small dose for the rest of my life than to worry about ever being addicted again to hydrocodone. That was not living...just existing and existing in a perpetual fog. What kind of life is that? I never want to go through that again. My poor family...I had put them through hades. Ended up on parole because of my habit and the manner in which I was getting the pills. An educated woman from a wonderful family background, wonderful career and ended up forging prescriptions for pills. How messed up is THAT? Addiction can be one of the most humbling and humiliating things to happen to someone. I live for the day when I can feel "normal" again without having to take so much as an aspirin. I remember those days.

Thanks again to everyone. I really and truly appreciate your responses.

 
Old 07-12-2008, 02:36 AM   #10
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oh-notagain HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEANandSOBER View Post
I have been on Suboxone (2nd time around) for about 2 months and my Dr. has me at 24 mg a day. I cannot take a whole tablet at once because is makes me so physically tired and heavy I could not work. I break them in half and take them about 2 hours apart. My worry is that I have been on 24 mg too long. I spoke with my Dr. and he told me I should be in no hurry toget off the Suboxone. He said he wants to go slow andsteady. But how long do you stay on 24 mg? I honestly think I could handle a lesser dose but I will listen to what he says. I do have a major problem sleeping though and thought maybe Suboxone had something to do with it. But then again I am coming off of 60 Ultram tablets a day so...go figure. I am curious though...I have read here that Suboxone is stronger than vicoden or morphine...where is that information located?
the sub could very well be interupting your sleep. make sure to stop dosing early afternoon so it wont affect your sleep so much. also, you may very well be ready to taper. the affects of the sub at 16mg are almost the same as they are at 24mg according to brain scans i have seen. you could try to go ahead and reduce this yourself and see if it helps with the "heavy feeling" you are describing. you should just feel fine while on this drug. no effect at all. just a suggestion; go down to 16 for one week and then report the effects of doing so to your doctor. he/she might agree a reduction is in order if this dose DOES work better for you.


good luck,

michelle

 
Old 07-12-2008, 04:46 AM   #11
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pillhead1967 HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh-notagain View Post
the sub could very well be interupting your sleep. make sure to stop dosing early afternoon so it wont affect your sleep so much. also, you may very well be ready to taper. the affects of the sub at 16mg are almost the same as they are at 24mg according to brain scans i have seen. you could try to go ahead and reduce this yourself and see if it helps with the "heavy feeling" you are describing. you should just feel fine while on this drug. no effect at all. just a suggestion; go down to 16 for one week and then report the effects of doing so to your doctor. he/she might agree a reduction is in order if this dose DOES work better for you.


good luck,

michelle
Hello,
My doctor has me on two 8mg pills a day- 1 morning-1 night. When I first started taking the pills, I felt a little sick around noon time so I put myself on 3 a day. Dr. said that is not necessary. He has 15 bag a day users on 1 to 2 a day. I think I am trying to abuse these as I did every thing else I've used, but my point is...24mg a day sounds like a lot to me. Are these doctors on the same page? I've been on 8mg 2x day for 2 weeks and next week we are going to start weening me off the suboxone. Doctor said I'll be off in about 8 weeks then can stay on a blocker if I choose....Hope I've made some sense.

 
Old 07-12-2008, 10:58 AM   #12
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oh-notagain HB User
Re: Suboxone...Is this normal or "routine"???

pillhead.

every doctor is different. where i go, they start heavy users at 3 a day and let them self report how they feel on this dose. then after a month or two, most choose to go down to 16mg. i understand how you can want to try to abuse these. i get high when i take too much. most people dont. you have to really want to get sober and be honest with yourself. i have been on it for a year now and i am taking 4mg. i dont want to get high anymore. i just want to be sober. i dont get any effect whatsoever at this dose, and i dont get sick. so this is the right dose for me. my doctor is not asking that i try to taper. he is letting me and my body decide when i am ready. i think that is the right way to do it. at least for me. i dont want to be without anything "helping" me from relapsing. because i am so afraid to go back to where i used to be. i'd rather take the sub and work on me and my sobriety without having cravings.

i hope this helped.

michelle

 
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