Hi...I'm new here...this is a new thread...I'm a 42 yr. old male with an oxycodone problem. I'm doing 125mg/day and I would like some advice. I'm seriously considering starting suboxone on Tuesday. I have already spoken to a Dr. and she has been prescribing sub for 7 years. I have been eating oxycodone pills for about 9 months but at 125/day for the last two months. I feel scared and ashamed. Any help or advice with suboxone will be greatly appreciated. From what I've read I intend on being on sub for no more than 6-8 wks at most. This is my plan at least. I am READY to be free completely even if I have to suffer a little to get it. I need all the encouragement I can get from sub users. Some really great people have already helped me immensely on this board (reach, denon, pauly to name a few).
First off all congrats on your decision - it is ok to be scared - most of us in recovery know the terror that's associated with even thinking of giving up our drug of choice.
I am glad you have an appointment with a Dr. who at least seems to be experienced with the use of suboxone.
My sure you are completely honest with your doctor about how much oxycondone you are using as this will help determine how much subox you will be given. Make sure your doc gives you a clear idea of how much Suboxone you will be taking, for how long and what the schedule will be for getting you off that drug as well. Most people take subox for somewhere between 3- 12 months depending on the level of opiets you have been taking. Make sure your Doctor does some routine blood teste as both oxycodone and subox can be damageing to your liver. I would also highly reccomend you get in volved in the community of Narcotcs Anonymous. I personally beieve I would not be alive today were it not for the good people in those rooms. THer combination of tough love and honest support helped me to see the fact I am about to tell you. As terrifying as the thought of detox is, getting the drugs out of your system is the easy part.
There is a beautiful world waiting for you in recovery. But no matter what rought you choose make sure you stay committed to staying sober no matter what! I am arond on this and several other recovery boards always under the same name. Drop me a note if you need a dose of experience, strength and hope.
So glad to hear you want to stop abusing pills I've been on Suboxone for three months now (abused percocet and OxyContin for four years) and I am very happy with my decision.
If you only want to be on Sub for 6-8 weeks, be sure to explain this to your doctor. Suboxone is more commonly used for long-term so your doctor may "want" you on it longer.
Regarding liver damage, Oxycodone is not damaging at all, it is the acetaminophen in Percocet/Oxycocet/Endocet that damages the liver. Are you taking perks or Oxy's?
Also, Suboxone has a component called Naloxone (which can cause damage if used long-term). In general, the Naloxone does not get absorbed, so the chance of liver damage is likely minimal if you are only taking it short-term.
If you are feeling scared and ashamed, get to a NA meeting. The people there will help you with your struggles and guide you to a life of recovery.
I hope everything works out regarding the Sub The first day I took Sub, I felt much better. I didn't have any cravings, had my energy back and felt like me! It had been a long time since I felt like myself.
Congrats on getting help, it's a big scary step,i know I was terrified. But please please be sure you are in moderate withdrawals and be honest with your doctor when the last time you used, or you would get even worse withdrawals if sub is taken too soon after a dose of your normal drug, my sub doc had a pateint go seizures cause he lied. I went for 48 hours and was uncomfortable, but once you get that first sub into your system, you'll be feeling great very fast. I threw up a few times after my first dose, but besides that, I felt great, I think I vomited cause withdrawals gives me migraines which makes me vomit, so vomiting isnt the norm for sub on the first day, atleast it's not what I heard. But be sure besides NA, you get some kind of drug abuse counceling, I did intensive outpatient treatment, and I'm very glad I did, I learned so much about my addiction, they're usually 9 hour a week classes for 8 weeks, then some relapse prevention classes afterwards. I really feel that taking Suboxone alone with no kind of counceling is not useful at all, and almost pointless. Subs may help with cravings and withdrawals, but they dont help with all that other mental stuff may feel after your clean.
But please let us know how your first appointment goes!!!! Good luck!!!
hppygr8ful, emsmom and Lovemydegus thank you for your replies. My questions are what (if any) ill effects have you had since being on sub. The Dr. I'm going to also prescribes clonidine and a sleeping pill if neccessary. All thoughts are really appreciated...really
I never went on subs as opiets were not my drugs of choice I was into booze and benzos. <removed> I have been sober for over 5 years. What I know about subox comes from research and talkin to others who have been on it.
Peace and Namaste
Last edited by mod-anon; 06-06-2009 at 05:10 AM.
Reason: removed profession
Hey again Philly!
kewood here....I noticed on the other thread that you were concerned about anxiety/panic attacks if you take the sub. I've had no problem at all with any anxiety or panic compared to 4 years ago when I detoxed off of hydro and ativan at an inpatient center...my god I was a wreck! And, this is coming from someone who has PTSD and Panic Disorder so I know very well the horror of mind numbing panic. My doc gave me some ativan about 2 months ago for breakthrough anxiety. I was having a little bit of anxiety but I knew it was all about realizing I wasn't going to be able to get my drugs off the internet anymore and that I was going to have to come clean. So far, in two months, I've only taken one of the Ativan. I've had no desire to use it recreationally and haven't needed it for anxiety/panic except for once.
So, tomorrow evening I have another appt. with my sub doc/psychiatrist and it will be exactly 2 weeks that I've been on the 16mg suboxone daily (8mg twice a day). I have lots of questions for him like: how do I know what the "right" dose is for me, how do you know how long someone needs to be on it, will he start tapering me down tomorrow or when does that happen...just general stuff. But, all in all, I have felt really quite good on the sub. I have had some dull headaches and nausea along with very dry mouth & eyes, I have to take my contacts out every few days to give my eyes a rest now. After the 1st week, the nausea and headaches have gone away. Like I said I'm experiencing NO anxiety. I do have a bit of depression but I know it's not the drug. I say that because I also suffer from major depressive disorder so I know when I'm having a "real" bout of depression. This feeling is all because "they took my drugs away!", actually, I decided to stop but sometimes I feel like a spoiled little brat because I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I WANT IT NOW AND WANT IT DONE MY WAY!!! Do I sound like an addict or what!?
I do take medication for depression & a mood stabilizer and a small dose of trazadone to help me sleep but I probably don't even need that now. The medicine does make me sleepy but then I have a kind of "restless" sleep, not a horrible night's sleep just that my body is undergoing something new and coming off of something it was used to for 2 years. Your doc sounds like she's going to prescribe some additional detox meds to help you go through the first day or two. I didn't need anything but the suboxone and I felt great the first two days. It was only days 3-7 that I had the headaches, nausea, etc. I never threw up but felt like I was going to but it wasn't severe at all.
I say go in with an open mind and if you're pretty sure you are going to start, make sure you go when you are in mild to moderate withdrawls. For me that was 24 hours from taking my last hydro. I think I took 50mg at 7am Friday and my induction was Saturday at 7:30am.
I'm really proud of you for asking for help, advice, and coming here. What we're all doing, whether it's contemplating stopping, detoxing cold turkey, using some meds to help, trying the suboxone route, any of it,it's all very hard and challenging. This will never be easy and I agree with the other posters that the physical part we can all get through, it's the mental, emotional and psychological part that is the hardest and lasts the longest. And, for me, coming to terms with "I am an ADDICT" once again is of huge importance. I think having 2+ years clean from 2005-2007 got me feeling lax and like, "maybe this was just a bad period where I misused some opiates". I'll have 2 surgeries within 3 months, just take the pain meds they give me, stop when the pain is gone and I'll be fine. I can do it, no problem. Boy, was I ever WRONG! I now realize that I can never get too confident with this disease. I will never beat it, I will always have it, but I can learn to manage it.
Best of luck, Philly. I'm anxious to hear how your appointment goes. Please feel free to write any time with any questions. I may not be able to answer them but I'm happy to share my personal experiences if they help at all.
Well it's been a few days and I've been tapering down from 120mg/day oxy and it's a sloooow process. I really just want this over! Anyway, I've made a decision and I contacted the sub Dr. that I spoke about and I set an appt. up for Tuesday at 630pm. I will take my last dose around 6am and try to get through the day. I am nervous and excited. She explained to me that everything is confidential and that she will prescribe other meds if I need them. Any thoughts on what to expect the first day/week of this would be great! I can't express how much I appreciate everyone's thoughts and support.
Congrats for making a decision. Now you can relax and try not to worry for the next 3 days. My only concern would be that 12 hours may not be enough time between your last dose of oxy and the suboxone induction. I think you need 16 hrs at minimum and 24 or more is ideal. I wouldn't want you to be kicked into immediate w/d's just because you didn't wait long enough.
The induction itself is no big deal. She will just have you sit there and she'll make sure you are at least in mild w/d then give you probably half of an 8mg tablet to put under your tongue, maybe an 8mg, I don't know how your doc will do it. My doc told me to put half, 4mg, under my tongue and when that was dissolved asked me how I felt. I said I was still a bit nauseas and shaky. he told me to put the other half under and when it dissolved asked how I felt and at that point I felt better. He said I'd feel better as the day went on and I did. He said to take the other 8mg around 6pm (my first was at about 7:30am). He said if I had to I could take another 4mg as early as noon that day and I did as I started to feel kind of sick to my stomach around 2pm. That dose worked great to stop the nausea. I then took the other 8mg around 6pm. So, my 1st day I took 20mg then I've been taking 16mg ever since.
I see my doc tonight so I'll let you know if he makes any changes.
Okay, Buddy, a plan is in the making. Good for you. Please remember that all plans also need a segment for support in helping the thinking change permanently. N/A, counselors, whatever you choose, but please do choose. Need to take care of the mind as well as the body to be successful.
As I wrote before, I am with you whatever course chosen and I mean that. I wish you positive change and good health in the journey to restoration. Stay strong, stay determined, keep gaining knowledge.
I am starting suboxone on Tuesday nite at 630pm. I'll be taking my last dose of oxycodone (hopefully forever) 30mg pill at 6am. How long did you wait to take your first sub dose? How bad were you in withdrawal? Did you have any problems at induction? I anxiously await your reply.
Last edited by mod-anon; 06-07-2009 at 09:39 PM.
Reason: moved post from another thread
You didn't say whether you're taking your last dose of 30mg Oxy tomorrow at 6am or Tuesday at 6am?? If it's tomorrow you'll be fine, probably just in mild withdrawls & some trouble sleeping Monday night. If you're planning to take your last oxy on Tues. morning I really don't think you are giving yourself enough time. 24 hrs is a good safe bet so I'd suggest you take your last dose tomorrow evening at 6:30pm or if you were going to take it tomorrow morning anyway, good for you, that's plenty of time to get into mild w/d's. I'm not sure about you but I was taking Hydro 150-200mg per day every day for the last 2yrs straight. I took my last dose on a Friday morning around 10am and went in for my sub induction on Saturday at 7:30am. So, that was 21 hrs and I was fine. I was actually waiting to be feeling worse and by midnight Friday I was still feeling ok.
Sleeping was rough that night just in terms of restless, sweaty, anxious thinking about the induction, what it was going to be like, how I would feel, etc. When I woke after just a couple of hours of sleep I was somewhat shaky & nauseas but it was a cake walk compared to back in 2005 when I detoxed from both hydro and Ativan in 5 days at an in-patient treatment center.
By the time I saw my doc at 7:30am Sat. morning, I was in mild withdraw still just really minor symptoms like shakes, bit of an upset stomach & sweaty but that's it. He then told me to put half of an 8mg tablet under my tongue and when it was dissolved asked me how I felt, I said still a bit shaky. He told me to put the other half under and wait. All in all I was in his office for 45 minutes. I felt pretty good after the 2nd half and he wrote me a two week Rx for 16mg/day - 8 in the am, 8 in the pm. After I hung out until the pharmacy opened I felt SO relieved that it was SO EASY! I got my rx filled then went out and met my family camping. I had said that I was sure I wasn't going to be able to make it camping b/c I would be "getting used to the medication" or I was worried I needed to be closer to my doc if "something" happened. Anyway, had a wonderful weekend camping and the best thing of all was to wake up in a tent and just pop out of bed and have my body feel GREAT and not have to run straight to that bottle and take 7or 8 pills until I felt "normal" again. The friends we were out camping with said I even looked different! To not wake up with that rebound pain from my body not having the hydro for 12 or 15 hours was magical, I haven't felt that way in a long time!!
Philly, I know you're going to do great! You'll breeze through this and be so happy you never have to take an oxy again!! Keep in touch about how it goes, ok? I'll be rooting for you and keeping you in my thoughts all week, especially Tuesday night!!
Hi, Philly, good to meet you. I'm new, too, so I'm not as knowledgeable as some here, but I've been on sub for 11 months, so I can tell you my experience.
For about the first week after I started sub, I had mild nausea off and on, like a mild case of the flu that cleared up toward the end of the week.
The only lasting side-effect I have now is dry mouth and sinuses. For the dry mouth, I'm using Biotene Dry Mouth products (I hope it's ok to mention specific companies; I don't work for them and am not promoting these products). There are toothpastes, mouth washes, and a product that comes in a tube and is a gel, which helps a lot with the dryness and also freshens breath. Sorry I can't remember the name of it. I'm sure there are many other dry-mouth products on the market, also. I drink lots of water for the dry mouth, too.
I have several anxiety issues, including horrible panic attacks, sometimes, but I haven't noticed an increase while on sub. Actually, my general anxiety seems to have decreased, and I haven't had one full-blown panic attack. I generally feel a bit more calm, and I think for me, it's because I'm not worried about getting my next prescription, how long it would last, etc. Have also noticed my depression (I'm bipolar) has decreased a bit, and my hypomanic episodes have decreased in length and intensity, too.
Philly, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but: try to lose the shame. I understand it, and I still have some, too, but I'm learning to let it go. If I keep it around my shoulders like an itchy blanket, it just keeps me from doing the healthy things I should be doing for myself and others. Maybe it's too early in your treatment, but at some point, it would be great if you could just lose that shame.
Also, I'll echo what others said - find some support groups (AA, NA) and commit yourself to going to them on a regular basis. There's nothing like being with people who "know" you, if you get what I mean. It's such a big help, and people who are in our shoes need all the support we can get.
Sorry for the novel, I tend to run off at the mouth, and also the fingers.
PS: Philly, please let us know how you're doing, and keep us up to date if you can, ok?
~If you can't be a poet, be the poem
~If you're happy all the time, you lose sight of what really matters***my son Jim
Last edited by Wild Irish Rose; 06-08-2009 at 03:09 PM.
Reason: Edited for content
Well last nite at 630pm I had my first appt. with the Dr. for my suboxone induction. I took my last dose of 30mg oxycodone IR at 1am. So I had waited 17 hrs. to withdrawal. I had a bit of a hard time during the day with anxiety and restless legs and arms but I made it. My withdrawal had actually subsided quite a bit when I got to the Dr. office and I started my first dose of sub (4mg) at 7pm. For the first hour or so I felt absolutely no change and I was very worried. What if I'm the exception and this doesn't work???! I was released from the Drs office with instructions to take another 4mg around 830pm. She also gave me some clonidine and trazodone if I needed them for sleep. So I took my second dose at 830pm and in 20 mins I was feeling fine. Pretty good actually. Relief! As the nite went on I felt better and better. I was SHOCKED at how good I felt. Not high...just good. Last nite I slept very well on 8mg of sub and nothing else. I woke up around 8am and took my first full 8mg pill. Today I am feeling quite normal and very happy to not have to worry about taking oxy. I told my Dr. that I want to take sub very conservatively and try to wean off asap. She said she is willing to help me do this and if I have any problems we can slow it down. I am to take 12mg on days 2 and 3, 10mg on days 4 and 5 and 8mg on days 6 and 7. My next appt. is Wed 6/17.
I am so thankful to all on this site who supported and encouraged me...reach, denon, kewood, PaulyC and WildIrishRose. Thank you all so much. This is my first BIG step in breaking free of the prison of addiction. Next I will go to an AA/NA meeting. I am on my way!
If anyone has any questions or further thoughts or suggestions for me...I'm ALL ears.
Hey Philly - I'm glad that you have a plan to get off of the Sub and that it is working for you. I can't talk about Sub, other than what I have read about it in this forum, since I never took it. I understand that you will still go through withdrawals getting off of it, but you sound like a strong person and with plans and goals. To me, that is the biggest step right there. Having goals and making a plan to accomplish that goal. Work with your doctor - sounds like they know what they are doing - and slowly taper down to get off. Don't be like me trying to do it too fast (thanks reach and secrets and others for slapping me in the head a few times). Your body has to rebuild itself to be away from the opiates and re-establish how to make its own endorphins again. It takes a long time. When you get to the final tapering stages, post here again for more advice. We've been there and we'll have more advice for you to answer your questions. You are on the right journey and hopefully you have learned something from it. Once you are clean, you'll look back on this period in your life and see how bad off you were, but also how you fought and won an extremely difficult struggle. I'm anxious to hear about your journey on Sub for my own education. Good luck to you!!
I started my subs on saturday. After 7 years of off and on pain killer abuse i am finally off them for about 3 weeks now. I used methadone for a few day's until i found a doctor that could give me subs. The switch was easy and painless and suboxone is a miracle drug! zero w/d and i feel better then i have in years. My doctor is great! my wife called him on a friday night(around 8 p.m) and i was sitting in his office at 8 a.m. the next morning. Doctors where i live do not do that! he is like an angel sent from my father(he passed away last january 08) and i am forever in his debt. I understand from what i have read that getting off the subs may not be too much fun, but i trust my doctor will help me do the right thing and if i have to be a little uncomfortable for a few day's after i stop the subs, so be it! consider the alternitive people. Coming off 180 mg of oxycontin everyday and coming off subs will be night and day. I just had enough of the b.s. from pain killers, my wife and kids have suffered long enough. I looked at my son one day and he huged me and told me he loved me and that's when i said no more! i want my life back!! You can do it! just think about your family( if u have one) and think about all the money you have wasted on the devils candy. That's what i call them, the devils candy and the er is the devils candy shop! I just have had enough and thank god for my doctor and suboxone, and of course my dad for steering me in the right direction and giving me the strength and wisdom to get help. If you have any questions about the subs, i am all ears and i have done exstensive research on subs and all that intails. You can do it, the subs can help.
Well, my man, I was anxious to hear how all went and am very glad you have posted. Very glad, also, that all went well. I think you have a great Sub doctor who is willing to work with you and is also cognizant that sometimes plans have to be tweaked. Sounds like she knows her stuff from experience and not just as an academic course.
I think great support will greet you at a meeting. Many are astounded by the true and free caring that meets them. I did not go to AA or NA during my own treatment, but had a real advantage.... I grew up with a dad who was a recovering alcoholic and listened to the language of AA for many, many years. I spent Saturadys at the AA Club (don't know if thosw still exist?) and listened to counseling the whole time I scampered around. Chuckles. I did do many other things and had a great childhood, but AA was just always a piece of it. My mom actually started the first Al-Anon group in our city. What I didn't learn from one parent, I learned from another. WHat a help all those mebedded lessons were when I had to face my own challenge.
So you are on your way, Buddy. One of the greatest things that occurs in restoring ourselves is that we learn.. or re-learn... how to experience true joy in our lives again. It is there waiting for us to rediscover.
So glad to hear everything is going well When you are completely weaned off the Sub, remember...the cravings may come back. You were able to stop the oxy and not go through the horrible withdrawal we are all so worried about, however now is the time to reach out to recovery. You have to protect yourself and not be overconfident (cocky). I'm happy to read that you will look into AA/NA meetings. This is your recovery and you will have to work on it for the rest of your life. Most folks in NA are very helpful, especially to newcomers, so open up to people, talk to those who you feel comfortable around and smile...you are worth it
It's been 6 days since my first sub appt. and I'm doing pretty good. The second day I was on 16mg and I've tapered down to 8/day on day 6. My next appt. is Wednesday and I guess I will discuss how long I will be on sub. So far it has been a lifesaver. I do not even think about oxy and I've been feeling pretty normal. I used half of a .1mg clonidine last nite to sleep and that worked very well. I have very mild anxiety due to all this being so new to me. I will check in again after my Dr. appt. on Wednesday.