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Old 12-22-2007, 08:54 PM   #1
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Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

I am starting to suspect I have an adrenal problem due to the fact I have been unable to tolerate my thyroid meds. This has happened recently after a trial of a few months on Armour. Now, I can't hardly take a small dose of thyroxine. My thyroid tests say I at mid range for the T3, yet I am experiencing severe hyper symptoms, which should not happen until the upper range or above.

I had a saliva test about a month ago, prior to this episode, showing some low cortisol and other low sex hormones and low DHEA.

________________________________________ ________
cortisol

7-8AM 15 (13-24)
11-noon 3 (5-10) depressed
4-5PM 4 (3-8)
11-mid 2 (1-4)

It says I am maladapted Phase II
____________ _________ ______

DHEA 1 (3-10) LOW

____________ _________ _________

hormones (in context of time of meses)

borderline low:
F testosterone 7 (borderline low 5-7; normal 8-20pg/ml)
Androstenedione 97 (borderline low 75-124pg/ml)
Estrdiol 8 (luteal 7-20pg/ml) my phase at the time
Estriol 14 (cycling female (12-25 pg/ml)

high:
progesterone (very elevated) 837 (luteal 65-500pg/ml)
________________________________________

I am at my wits end. I have been all over the literature about adrenal fatigue, hypopituitary, hypoparathyroid...I just don't know what to do. My dr keeps thinking that if I get enough thyroid meds, my adrenals and other hormones will improve. But, I can't seem to get the right thyroid meds dose in order to achieve this.

I had an ACTH test (not stim) in July which was normal - I can't locate the value, but the endo said it is fine.

Any advice???? I am at my wits end.

 
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:02 AM   #2
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Hi, I don't really have any advice but wanted you to know you are not alone. I have addison's disease, hypoparathyroidism and was recently diagnosed with hashimotos. I went on the lowest possible dose of levoxyl for my thyroid and it brought all of my numbers up to the normal range but I started have severe hyperthyroid symptoms. I just had a visit with my endo on Friday and he wants me to stop the levoxyl and see if that helps. He said my numbers look good but he is going to treat my symptoms not my bloodwork. I am a very small, petite person, 4'11" and I am down to 82 pounds and can't seem to gain any weight back. He said it will take up to 6 weeks to see if I feel better, but I am sure it was the levoxyl.

Anyways, I hope you get to the bottom of what is going on soon.
__________________
Polyglandular Autoimmune Syndrome
Addison's Disease
Hypoparathyroidism
Hashimoto's

Last edited by 2jen; 12-24-2007 at 10:03 AM.

 
Old 12-24-2007, 10:10 AM   #3
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

OR maybe you are on the wrong type of thyroid medicine.

 
Old 12-24-2007, 11:20 AM   #4
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Thanks for your replies.

I have been on every thyroid medication - levothyroxine, levoxyl, synthroid, armour and cytomel - and every permutation of dosages. This has been going on for two years - up and down.

Today, I am on a small does of levoxyl and armour. I feel exhausted and my heart is pounding. I also feel emotional because I do not have enough medicaiton.

Recently, I was super-hyper at mid range free T3, and below mid range free T4 and a TSH of 2. something. (on 45 mg Armour)

Every time I need to move up the dose to feel better, I go super hyper. I am starting to believe my adrenals can't handle the thyroid medication at the level my body really needs.

I am tired, dizzy, nauseous, have double vision (eyes are too tired to focus), heart pounding, anxious, weak and can't lose weight - in addition to all the classic symptoms of hypo (or maybe other diseases????)

I have an appointment with a reproductive endo in January. I thought I would approach my problems from a different angle. The last mainstream endo I went to, told me right up front that he treats by numbers NOT how one feels. He acted like my high glucose was my fault, as well as my weight (40pounds - can't lose a pound) and chuckled at me during my recitation of symptoms and prior treatment calling me "Dr. Sparkles" (actually my real last name).

What a jerk. He only did a ACTH test and morning blood cortisol. I don't know how a Dr considers this useful for a person who has trouble on thyroid meds, yet needs them, and has been ill for more than 20 years. I am sure he thinks I am peri menopausal crazy woman since now I am in my early 40's.

I am seriously going to tell the new endo that I want to try all and any options - no more wait and see - and that otherwise, I am just going to give up the thyroid meds altogether and take to my bed permanently with my fatigue. I can't wait to see what the reaction is. Seriously, I am pretty well disgusted with this half a life and being a physical and emotional wreck.

Hope I have better luck this time.

 
Old 02-03-2008, 11:03 PM   #5
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

I had graves disease and had the same problem after removal. I found out that if we have adrenal problems the cortisol opens the cell to let the thyroid hormone in, when it pools in the blood we are very ill, but our tests look good. I noticed once i was on cortisol I started having less probs but take your time raising. All of this is my opinion and what I went through also if you got up to a higher thyroid hormone level, once the door opens you get a bit hyper so I had to lower my thyroid dose until everything settled. I will say I treated the adrenals but then got extreme exhaustion 3 months later due to addison's.

Also, so many side effects from hyper & hypo are the same and we are all different and have different reactions.

Last edited by val319; 02-03-2008 at 11:04 PM.

 
Old 02-27-2008, 12:03 PM   #6
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkles916 View Post
Thanks for your replies.

I have been on every thyroid medication - levothyroxine, levoxyl, synthroid, armour and cytomel - and every permutation of dosages. This has been going on for two years - up and down.

Today, I am on a small does of levoxyl and armour. I feel exhausted and my heart is pounding. I also feel emotional because I do not have enough medicaiton.

Recently, I was super-hyper at mid range free T3, and below mid range free T4 and a TSH of 2. something. (on 45 mg Armour)

Every time I need to move up the dose to feel better, I go super hyper. I am starting to believe my adrenals can't handle the thyroid medication at the level my body really needs.

I am tired, dizzy, nauseous, have double vision (eyes are too tired to focus), heart pounding, anxious, weak and can't lose weight - in addition to all the classic symptoms of hypo (or maybe other diseases????)


Hope I have better luck this time.
I know this post is a bit old and not for sure if you have everything straightned out or not.I pray you have!.
But if you are suspecting adrenal fatigue t3 meaning armour or cytomel is going to drag your adrenals down more so than t4.. " Been there done that"
If I were you I would stay on plain t4 which ever brand you can tolerate the most .. Start with a small dose 15 mcgs for example and stay with this dose until your body is comfortable and then move up a notch and so forth and so on..
This is what I had to do.. NO JOKE ITS TAKEN ME I GUESS 2 YRS JUST TO GET TO 75MCGS.Im just now trying to push 80 mcg
I know I have adrenal issues and I cant find anyone to help me.. So this is my only trick in trying to get t4 in my system.. Maybe it will work for you..
I have hashi/hypo as well.. Take Care

 
Old 02-28-2008, 09:53 AM   #7
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Lucky charms, thanks for your well wishes. No, things have not really settled down, just a new plan and new problems. But, for the moment, better than when I was not tolerating the meds in Dec and better than when I was off the meds in Jan.

I wne to see an integrative med dr, and he is Armour all the way. I decided to follow his treatment protocol rather than the endo who recommended 25 mcg t4. To be truthful, I was afriad to go either way for fear I would be back in pseudo hyper land and all "buzzy".

The dr recommended 30 mg armour. I decided to start on 15 and go thing I did. I was dizzy the first day, same feeling as in Dec, tho to a lesser extent. I decided to try some adrenal cortex supplement, with 2.5 mg cortisol in each tablet. A small dose seemed to ameliroate the "hyper" dizzy feeling of the Armour and hopefully, is helping the hormone to go where it belongs.

New set of problems is when the cortisol wears out after 4 hrs, I am in bad shape - and I don't want to go to high really at the moment, as this is just a testing phase.

I guess, over all I would rather feel like crap from crash in cortisol than hyper on the thyroid meds.

Just another wait and see situation and more of my life down the drain, but there is really little choice at this point - can't be without the thyorid meds-----test after being off for 4 weeks showed TSH of over 5.0.

How are you doing adrenal-wise? Have you had any related tests ?

 
Old 02-29-2008, 12:37 AM   #8
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkles916 View Post
Lucky charms, thanks for your well wishes. No, things have not really settled down, just a new plan and new problems. But, for the moment, better than when I was not tolerating the meds in Dec and better than when I was off the meds in Jan.

I wne to see an integrative med dr, and he is Armour all the way. I decided to follow his treatment protocol rather than the endo who recommended 25 mcg t4. To be truthful, I was afriad to go either way for fear I would be back in pseudo hyper land and all "buzzy".

The dr recommended 30 mg armour. I decided to start on 15 and go thing I did. I was dizzy the first day, same feeling as in Dec, tho to a lesser extent. I decided to try some adrenal cortex supplement, with 2.5 mg cortisol in each tablet. A small dose seemed to ameliroate the "hyper" dizzy feeling of the Armour and hopefully, is helping the hormone to go where it belongs.

New set of problems is when the cortisol wears out after 4 hrs, I am in bad shape - and I don't want to go to high really at the moment, as this is just a testing phase.

I guess, over all I would rather feel like crap from crash in cortisol than hyper on the thyroid meds.

Just another wait and see situation and more of my life down the drain, but there is really little choice at this point - can't be without the thyorid meds-----test after being off for 4 weeks showed TSH of over 5.0.

How are you doing adrenal-wise? Have you had any related tests ?
Im still have trouble with my adrenals not as bad.. I tire easily, cant take stress to well, very low blood pressure .. the worst would have to be the low sugar drops..
this is where my problem sets in, if I up my thyroid meds to quickly I struggle with trying to keep my sugar up..

I've had testing done through saliva which shows very depressed adrenals while the blood work shows perfect levels.. Drs. Think Im crazy! ..

However since I baby crawl my thyroid meds my adrenals seem to hang in there .. lol

I long for the day just to see my tsh below a one and my free levels mid range .. lol

So your taking an adrenal supplement? and after 4 hrs you crash?
Do you think you could split the dose? Take a small portion in the morning and when it wears off take the other half that is left?
maybe you could avoid a crash this way! Im not for sure..
either way i sure hope you feel better.. This thyroid/adrenal problem is a long road to travel down..

 
Old 08-27-2008, 09:03 AM   #9
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Sorry l know this post is abit old BUT l noticed someone here val l think had graves...... well l had a TT last july and am still ill ( lm at the stage now where l have all the symptoms for fibromyalgia) however after tt l was on 125mcgs levo by xmas l was way over lab ranges for ft4 and had it reduced to 100mcgs... and now nearly 9 months later l am way over range again for ft4 and the levo is been reduced to 75mcgs tommorow!!! my ft3 is bang in the middle and tsh is low sorry l havnt the numbers so along with mega fibro symptoms which of course are similar to those of thyroid issues is it possible that lm having adrenalin issues which is causing the ft4 to climb? I would be really really grateful for any input l have searched without luck all over the net for reasons why the ft4 is climbing and it brought me here!! I go to see the doc tommorow it would be really good if l had some ammo to go with cheers all

 
Old 08-27-2008, 05:04 PM   #10
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Talking Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Hi:

I wondered if you have posted this question on the thyroid board, as they are very knowledgable, and have a lot of posters who have had TTs.

From what I understand about adrenal and serum thyroid hormones, I think the usual indicator is a low FT4 and higher FT3, as the FT3 appartently circulates in the body unable to be used because of inadequate cortisol.

I don't know how to explain the fact that your FT4 is high even though you keep lowering your dose. I read somewhere in the literature, that the thyroid makes between 90-one hundred something T4 per day. So, usually the therapeutic dose is around this level. Considering you have no thyroid at all, it is a puzzle. For people like myself, I seem to need less, as I may have some function in my thyroid. Though at the moment, I am not on any thyroid meds.

Has your dr a theory on this?

I know the thyroid people may consider your FT3 too low and would state (correctly) that it may have a relationship to your fibro.

This is not to say that there is not an adrenal issue you may have, just that the classic profile is usually a higher FT3.

I myself have an adrenal issue and when I was on synthroid at 100mcg, my FT3 was 2.8 at its highest.

It was only when I went on armour with its higher T3 content, that my adrenal issue came to light. I felt great at first, and then could no longer the Armour.

If you still don't feel optimum, I would recommend what alot experts recommend and see if you can get your dr to add in some T3 (either the synthetic known here as Cytomel or maybe a bit or Armour). Or of course, you may consider trying Armour alone, but i would definately check out my adrenal profile first.


 
Old 08-28-2008, 10:59 AM   #11
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Re: Please Help! Are my Adrenals In Trouble Can't Tolerate Thyroid Meds Anymore

Hi and thanks just got back from docs and lm going to see a rheumy at alast!! Yrs l post on the thyroid boards too Will bring everything up when l see the rheumy maybe he will order more tests than the doc can. Thanks again for your help

 
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