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Old 03-30-2004, 06:44 AM   #1
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Unhappy damaged cell membranes in nose

For years I have had sinus problems and didn't see anyone just took tons and tons of sudafed. I finally saw an ENT, which the first was unconcerned with my problems of headaches and stuffiness. I did have a CT scan. So I just went on with my miserable life still taking tons of sudafed. After a while I saw many ENT's and even had surgery for my septum. Which did help somewhat. All my CT scans come back okay, but what I think in taking so much sudafed for years and years I have destoryed my muscus membranes in my nose. Because I am always dryed up, oils don't really work and saline doesn't help much. I have to sleep with the window open even if its really cold cause any dry heat closed me up and humdifier don't do the job. Is there any way to help my membranes get back to normal or are they damaged for good. I have all the meds everyone takes for allergeries and flonse too!! Can anyone help me? PLEASE!!

Last edited by Wendy983; 03-30-2004 at 06:48 AM. Reason: misspellings

 
Old 03-30-2004, 09:02 AM   #2
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Yeah, I've seen this before. My former roommate and her mother both had this problem. The mucous membranes will heal themselves as long as you just stay away from any allergens and toxins. If helps most people to avoid all synthetic fabrics, and of course air pollution. If you live in a city, keep our windows closed and get an air purifier. Sleep with a vaporizer - they put out a lot more moisture than a humifdifier.
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:00 PM   #3
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy983
For years I have had sinus problems and didn't see anyone just took tons and tons of sudafed. I finally saw an ENT, which the first was unconcerned with my problems of headaches and stuffiness. I did have a CT scan. So I just went on with my miserable life still taking tons of sudafed. After a while I saw many ENT's and even had surgery for my septum. Which did help somewhat. All my CT scans come back okay, ...
With every CT Scan, there is an summary report, which contains an interpretation of your sinuses by the radiologist. Also, there is usually a evaluation by the doctor who sent you to get the CT Scan. Do you have copies of those summary reports? Do any of them say anything interesting or contain an evaluation? Sometimes, even a seemingly insignificant comment on a summary report can help.

If you don't have the summary reports, I would suggest that you get copies of them and post what they had to say.

Quote:
... but what I think in taking so much sudafed for years and years I have destroyed my muscus membranes in my nose. Because I am always dryed up, oils don't really work and saline doesn't help much. I have to sleep with the window open even if its really cold cause any dry heat closed me up and humdifier don't do the job. Is there any way to help my membranes get back to normal or are they damaged for good. I have all the meds everyone takes for allergeries and flonse too!! Can anyone help me? PLEASE!!
I am not an expert, merely a fellow patient who has found solutions to my own sinus problems. However, if you'd like, let's put our heads together (two minds are better than one).

You say that you took sinus meds for years. That tells me that the sinus meds worked very well for you for a long time. Then, something happened that caused you to go to an ENT. Do you remember what made you decide to go to the ENT? Was it because your sinus condition got much worse? Did your sinus condition change? Was it after a bad cold?

My thoughts on most sinus disease is that, most of the time, if there isn't a physical abnormality, the sinus problems aren't because of a defect in one's sinuses. Sinus disease is caused by infections and/or irritants that are either eaten, breathed in, or absorbed through one's skin. When an irritant is encountered, the body produces hormones and secretions that causes irritation in the lungs, nose, skin, brain, etc. There is always a cause and effect, IMHO.

If you can't get away from the irritants, then allergy shots and/or acupuncture can help to build up one's resistence to the irritants, or help to alleviate symptoms.

You are assuming that your sinus membranes have been damaged. While this could be true, has this been verified by an ENT or by a CT Scan?

I would assume that sinus membranes can heal, if they are not totally destroyed.

Would you mind stating your symptoms more clearly? Do you sinuses totally close so that you can't breath through your nose. Is it just one side, or both sides. Do you ever get sinus discharge? Are your sinuses always painful?

You say that dry heat closes you up. What does that mean? Does it close your sinuses painfully shut, so that you can't breath through your nose at all? Are your sinuses always dry, or are they stuffy sometimes and dry at other times.

Since the ENTs haven't helped, perhaps by exploring your sinus problems here on Healthboards, perhaps you can get some suggestions to get you some relief.

 
Old 03-30-2004, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Ber,
Well, to start I had super painful headaches inbetween my eyes, I was young and dumb at the time and I didn't know what was going on. I just knew if I took sudafed my pain would go away, I could feel my sinuses drain and the pessure would then leave. I did see Dr.'s even back then becuase the pain got so bad it would make me sick. But I didn't see an ENT, again I didn't know much about who to see I was only 19 when it all started. As the years went on my headaches got more and more often and worse. I finally went to an allergy dr and he tested me and said I had allergies and gave me claritin D which helped for awhile, but after awhile it didn't work, I also got where I could not breath at all throught one side of my nose, so I saw an ENT and got a CT scan which he said it was nothing (he was a jerk from the start) so I went on way once again living with painful periods of blocked nose and headaches and taking triple the amount of sudafed to get relieve. I again after doing this for so many years saw another ENT who said I needed my septum straighted and thats why I was having so much trouble. It did help somewhat but I still have blocked sinus and headaches and now have been treated 3 times in 3 months for sinus infection. The dry nose all the time when I am sleeping I thought might be causing my sinus to block up, my nose is so dry I have to make my own saline cause all store saline burns to much. I know I sound dumb, but I don't trust Dr's anymore and I feel like this is becoming all of my life just fighting feeling normal, please help me.

 
Old 03-30-2004, 05:54 PM   #5
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy983
Ber,
Well, to start I had super painful headaches inbetween my eyes, I was young and dumb at the time and I didn't know what was going on.
Doctors want their patients to feel dumb. That way they can blame the patient and make excuses for not helping the patient. Headaches between the eyes can occur with sinus infections in the frontal and/or ethmoid sinuses. But, they can also be caused by just allergic swelling.

Quote:
I just knew if I took sudafed my pain would go away, I could feel my sinuses drain and the pessure would then leave. I did see Dr.'s even back then becuase the pain got so bad it would make me sick. But I didn't see an ENT, again I didn't know much about who to see I was only 19 when it all started. As the years went on my headaches got more and more often and worse. I finally went to an allergy dr and he tested me and said I had allergies and gave me claritin D which helped for awhile, but after awhile it didn't work, I also got where I could not breath at all throught one side of my nose, so I saw an ENT and got a CT scan which he said it was nothing (he was a jerk from the start) so I went on way once again living with painful periods of blocked nose and headaches and taking triple the amount of sudafed to get relieve.
You sound like you have the classic symptoms of sinus disease, which includes both allergies and infection problems. The longer that the sinuses are attacked by either fungal, viral or bacterial foes, the more damage can be done within the sinuses or nasal passages. Also, there is a risk of developing chemical sensitivities if the infections are not treated properly.

Quote:
I again after doing this for so many years saw another ENT who said I needed my septum straighted and thats why I was having so much trouble.
ENTs can make quick cash doing septum surgery. Personally, unless the septum is badly deformed, which is seldom the case, all the surgery does is fix the ENT's financial problems.

Quote:
It did help somewhat but I still have blocked sinus and headaches and now have been treated 3 times in 3 months for sinus infection.
Antibiotics can kill infections, but they can't kill the infectious material within the sinuses. There can be some infected junk in the sinuses. After a round of antibiotics, the infection might be gone, but it comes right back when the bacteria in the infected junk is able to attack again. You probably had the same infection three times in a row.

Quote:
The dry nose all the time when I am sleeping I thought might be causing my sinus to block up, my nose is so dry I have to make my own saline cause all store saline burns to much. I know I sound dumb, but I don't trust Dr's anymore and I feel like this is becoming all of my life just fighting feeling normal, please help me.
You don't sound dumb. You sound like you are in misery. You did the smart thing by going to doctors and ENTs. They let you down big time. They get paid a lot, but most of the time they don't find cures for their patients. I've been there just like you have, and many others have. It is so very frustrating.

Have you ever tried a corticosteroid nasal spray? It is a prescription drug, and to me it is a must for sinus sufferers. It is a very safe sinus med, and it helps to reduce swelling. It may take a week or more before it works, but even if it didn't seem to work, I would still keep using it until it kicked in.

I am not a doctor, so by law, I cannot prescribe any drugs or treatment for you. I can only legally tell you what I have done to cure my sinus disease and to provide relief for myself. It is also possible that nothing that I post will help you at all. I'm sorry to have to say this, but I've got to be honest. Although I've gotten replies from people who have thanked me for almost saving their lives by getting them out of their sinus misery, I've also had replies from those who have gotten very little relief.

Also, you should check with a doctor before trying any of my suggestions or options.

Let me explain what has helped me. I hope that you like to read. There is a lot of material.

I had severe sinusitis and was in sinus misery for over thirty years. I've done five things that have significantly improved my sinuses to the point that my sinuses are wide open and comfortable and I seldom have to even blow my nose. In fact, every day my sense of smell returns just a little more.

1. I've had allergy shots.

2. I've had sinus acupuncture treatments.

3. I've given myself electro-acupuncture treatments, which can also be done with a heating pad.

4. I've given myself "upside down sinus floodings", with diluted 3% hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt, which stopped my infection problems over 2.5 years ago, and has allowed my sinuses and nasal passages to heal 100%.

5. I've changed my diet, and made major changes to my home and my lifestyle.

In the next post, I will cover only 3 and 4, which are fairly easy to do and have helped myself and others in a short time period.

(End of Part One. Part Two to follow very soon).

 
Old 03-30-2004, 06:24 PM   #6
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

I am on flonse and helps somewhat. How I found you was before even becoming a member, I saw your post and others about the up side down flooding and I felt like my infection was coming back ( you can just feel your eye or eyes start to have sharp pain and dull pain in my upper face) so I tryed it and the sharp pain did go away ( I did it 3 times the first day and once the second) but my question is yes it got rid of the sharp pain but it made me miserable ( super super stuffed) so I didn't do it again. It seems like everyone who did it got real stuffy and I really live with that all the time. It felt a real bad head cold. So I didn't do it again, today the Dr had me go get a CT scan so I will let you know what he says at the end of week. My back of my neck hurts all the time too, same side as the pain in my eye and face. This is sooo hard to deal with all the time, tell me more about the floodings. I did just how you said, I know I needed to do it more but the head cold feeling was almost just as bad as the pain is right now. I have to tell I am on Flonse and I have Zyrtex and have been on every drug out there and they really don't work much. Zyrtex has helped alittle but I still get infections.

 
Old 03-30-2004, 07:35 PM   #7
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy983
I am on flonse and helps somewhat. How I found you was before even becoming a member, I saw your post and others about the up side down flooding and I felt like my infection was coming back ( you can just feel your eye or eyes start to have sharp pain and dull pain in my upper face) so I tryed it and the sharp pain did go away ( I did it 3 times the first day and once the second) but my question is yes it got rid of the sharp pain but it made me miserable ( super super stuffed) so I didn't do it again.
Sounds like your sinuses are really sensitive. That was very brave of you, to do it three times, and then once again the next day. Why did you do more than one flooding? Why did you do it the next day?

Did that sharp pain go away after the first flooding? How long ago did you do the floodings? It is significant that the pain went away, but that is such a small improvement. You are still in misery.

Hydrogen peroxide is VERY irritating to sensitive sinuses and nasal membranes. If you decide to do it again, you might consider cutting the amount of peroxide that you use in half, and only doing one flooding. How long did you stay down? How long were your sinuses flooded? I would imagine that, with your level of discomfort, you could not stay down very long at all. It may be possible to find a small amount of peroxide that doesn't cause your sinsuses to get worse, but still get the anti-infective help. Did you use sea salt or kosher salt? Regular salt can really sting the sinuses.

I am so sorry that you are in such misery, and I apologize that the flooding made you super stuffed up. For some, like myself, it has really worked great.

Quote:
It seems like everyone who did it got real stuffy and I really live with that all the time. It felt a real bad head cold. So I didn't do it again,
I don't blame you for not doing it again. The first time I did a flooding, I used too much. I had no idea of how much peroxide to use, so I used too much. It stuffed me up badly for three full days, and made me miserable. Since I was miserable to begin with, it was really depressing because I thought that I had just made myself worse. But, after three days, my symptoms improved dramatically, for the first time in a long time.

Did you do all three threatments back to back, or did you just do the first treatment and wait.

I am wondering what would have happened to you, if you had just done one flooding?

Quote:
today the Dr had me go get a CT scan so I will let you know what he says at the end of week.
Ask him for a copy of the report from the radiologist. It should not cost you anything for the copy.

Quote:
My back of my neck hurts all the time too, same side as the pain in my eye and face. This is sooo hard to deal with all the time, tell me more about the floodings. I did just how you said, I know I needed to do it more but the head cold feeling was almost just as bad as the pain is right now. I have to tell I am on Flonse and I have Zyrtex and have been on every drug out there and they really don't work much. Zyrtex has helped alittle but I still get infections.
If the anti-infective mixture can get to the source of the infection, it may be able to kill the infection, and it may be able to get rid of infection within the junk within the sinuses. It may be good to do both antibiotic treatment and the floodings during the same time period.

Something else that has helped me is as follows:

I have given myself electro-acupuncture treatments for congested, swelled sinuses. I have also tried using a heating pad, instead of the electro-pads. While the heating pads have helped me, the electro-pads are much more effective. If I get a little stuffy, I use the heating pads because it is simpler and easier to use. It helps me.

Here is what I do with a heating pad.

There are major sinus areas, on my body, and I want to stimulate each area for 10 minutes. I do this three times, so each area gets stimulated by the heating pad for a total of 30 minutes. I've done this, at most, twice a day. For me, it does not do anything for my sinuses until the next morning.

Here is what I do:

I cover the top of my head, including about one inch down my forehead, with a heating pad. I keep it there for 10 minutes.

I then cover the back of my head, down to the base of my neck with a heating pad. I keep it there for 10 minutes.

I then repeat this two more times.

Since I am still experimenting with this, and I seldom have sinus problems anymore, I don't know if I should increase the number of times, or sessions, and I don't know if this would help anyone else or not. It seems to work for me, but I do not have significant sinus problems.

Please let me know how it goes with the ENT/CT. I really feel bad for your misery. What do you think about the heating pad treatment?

There are other causes of sinus misery. Anything that you eat, drink, touch, breath, or any odor, or anything that touches your skin can cause, or add to your sinus misery. Dusts, molds, rugs, inks, paper, dyes, pollens, pollutants, chemicals, smoke, perfumes, clothing, automobile exhausts, animal dander, plants, ...... almost anything can cause sinus misery.

Would it make any sense to you to discuss the type of foods that you eat, what you drink, your home environment, your outside environment, your work environment, .......?

 
Old 03-31-2004, 07:37 AM   #8
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

the sharp pain went away after the second time, I didn't feel I got my sinuses to fill after the first time, being new to doing it. Then later that night I did again, and I was somewhat okay that night but the next moring I felt a little pain so I thought it might come back and howeveryonehad to do it serveral times, it was after that time the super stuffiness started and got worse as the day went on. Maybe I just should have stopped after the sharp pain went away. I started this on Friday and Saturday morning was the last flooding, by Saturday night I wasin bad shape, til Tuesday and I was taking sudafed and my Zrytex and my Floanse. By yesterday I started feeling better but that little pain is back thats why I talked to my Dr. and he said to get a CT because every month for the last 3 to 4 months I have had a infection. I still have the super dryness that wakes me serveral times a night, see I kinda believe that the reason I get these infections is because my cilica(is that what its called) in my nose thats suppose to keep your nose healthy from things getting in, doesn't work right and I have tried to tell a Dr. this but because its not the normal for infections and sinus trouble everyone disregards this idea. What do you think? When I get the CT back I will get a copy and read to you. I so want to thank you for listening to me and trying to help me. Just please don't give up on me. People close to me get sick of hearing about it and I can't blame but they have no idea how this affects my life. Thanks again. stay in touch please!

 
Old 03-31-2004, 08:26 AM   #9
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy983
the sharp pain went away after the second time, I didn't feel I got my sinuses to fill after the first time, being new to doing it.
In the war against your sinus disease, any victory at all is good. The fact that the sharp pain went away means that the great anti-infective mixture of peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt did it's job, in at least one area within your sinuses. In other words, it worked, but not in enough places.

How long did that sharp pain stay away?

Quote:
Then later that night I did again, and I was somewhat okay that night but the next moring I felt a little pain so I thought it might come back and how every one had to do it serveral times, it was after that time the super stuffiness started and got worse as the day went on.
The question we should ask is, did you get super stuffy after the 4th treatment because it was too much irritation for your sinuses, or because the 4th flooding finally got to some very sensitive areas? Did you stay down longer the 4th time? How long do you stay down?

Quote:
Maybe I just should have stopped after the sharp pain went away. I started this on Friday and Saturday morning was the last flooding, by Saturday night I was in bad shape, til Tuesday and I was taking sudafed and my Zrytex and my Floanse. By yesterday I started feeling better but that little pain is back thats why I talked to my Dr. and he said to get a CT because every month for the last 3 to 4 months I have had a infection.
I think that you are taking a very intelligent, planned out approach to using the "upside down sinus flooding". You said that, yesterday you started feeling better. What does that mean? Does that mean that your sinuses started to open up and get less painful? You said that the "little" pain was back. Was this in the area where the "sharp" pain had first gone away?

Peroxide can irritate the sinuses, especially when the sinuses and nasal passages are raw and sensitive. So........ when using the "upside down sinus flooding" one can expect additional stuffiness until the sinuses start to heal. The combination of peroxide, baking soda and salt isn't just anti-infective, it also has some healing qualities.

You are probably ready to throw in the towel, but I am getting a little optimistic about your results. When you said that you started feeling better, were you feeling better than you did before you started the floodings?

Did you begin to feel a little optimism when the sinus pain got better?

Quote:
I still have the super dryness that wakes me serveral times a night, see I kinda believe that the reason I get these infections is because my cilica(is that what its called) in my nose thats suppose to keep your nose healthy from things getting in, doesn't work right and I have tried to tell a Dr. this but because its not the normal for infections and sinus trouble everyone disregards this idea. What do you think?
Personally I think that the cilia concept pushed by many ENTs is nonsense. These are little, tiny hairs that line the sinuses. When the sinuses are working good, these little hairs help the thin, normal mucus to flow. But, when the sinuses are irritated, or infected, those little tiny hairs do absolutely nothing, IMHO. I cannot picture little tiny hairs shoving thick green or yellow mucus out of the sinuses. It just doesn't bark!

To me the most important factors are to rid the sinuses of infection and the infectious garbage, and the junk that irritates and inflames the sinuses, and to avoid those foods, chemicals, pollens, pollutants, smoke, etc., that cause irritation or allergic reactions within the sinuses or lungs.

Quote:
When I get the CT back I will get a copy and read to you. I so want to thank you for listening to me and trying to help me. Just please don't give up on me. People close to me get sick of hearing about it and I can't blame but they have no idea how this affects my life. Thanks again. stay in touch please!
OK. I'm flattered that you value my opinion. But........ if you disagree with anything that I post, or if you feel that what I post is a waste of your time, please don't hestitate to post your opinion. If you think that one of my ideas is stupid, say so.

I'll be interested in hearing what happened with your CT, if the ENT puts you on an antibiotic, if you feel that the "upside down sinus flooding" was of any value to you, and if you intend to do more floodings.

 
Old 04-19-2004, 08:30 AM   #10
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy983
When I get the CT back I will get a copy and read to you. I so want to thank you for listening to me and trying to help me. Just please don't give up on me. People close to me get sick of hearing about it and I can't blame but they have no idea how this affects my life. Thanks again. stay in touch please!
How did the CT go? Haven't heard back from you. Concerned about you.

Was the ENT able to do anything for you?

 
Old 04-19-2004, 09:08 AM   #11
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Hi Beerzoids and all...

Wow, your posts sound so familiar, it's really bizarre. I have chronic sinus infections, my nose on the inside gets so dry it actually causes sores and starts to bleed. I get migraines, and so from time to time, my sinus pressure and headaches will build into a migraine and I cannot seem to find any relief. I am concerned about the amount of over the counter products I have had to take for so long, and they really do not work well anymore anyway. I saw your post about the heating pad treatments and the flooding... can you expand on the flooding a bit more? I did not find a post where it actually gave the amounts of the ingredients, or exactly how to do it... but I am so desperate to find something that works.

Wendy... I feel for you Hon... I have fibromyalgia, and it took nearly 15 years and several doctors to diagnose it. I know what it is like when folks act like you are crazy and ignore you, or when family and friends decide you are no longer worth the time because you are sick so much and you need to talk about it. Thankfully I met a great guy and married him and now that part is not so bad anymore. But, you can come here and vent, complain, cry, laugh, anything and I will be right here for ya! I know what that is like and no one should have to feel that way. IT sounds like you are finding several friends here that feel the same way.

HUgs and thanks all...
Sheli

 
Old 04-19-2004, 09:23 AM   #12
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheliH3
Hi Beerzoids and all...

Wow, your posts sound so familiar, it's really bizarre. I have chronic sinus infections, my nose on the inside gets so dry it actually causes sores and starts to bleed. I get migraines, and so from time to time, my sinus pressure and headaches will build into a migraine and I cannot seem to find any relief. I am concerned about the amount of over the counter products I have had to take for so long, and they really do not work well anymore anyway. I saw your post about the heating pad treatments and the flooding... can you expand on the flooding a bit more? I did not find a post where it actually gave the amounts of the ingredients, or exactly how to do it... but I am so desperate to find something that works.

Wendy... I feel for you Hon... I have fibromyalgia, and it took nearly 15 years and several doctors to diagnose it. I know what it is like when folks act like you are crazy and ignore you, or when family and friends decide you are no longer worth the time because you are sick so much and you need to talk about it. Thankfully I met a great guy and married him and now that part is not so bad anymore. But, you can come here and vent, complain, cry, laugh, anything and I will be right here for ya! I know what that is like and no one should have to feel that way. IT sounds like you are finding several friends here that feel the same way.

HUgs and thanks all...
Sheli
Complete documentation for the sinus flooding is at:

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=139765[/url]

Another thread, in which sinus sufferers discuss the sinus flooding is at:

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210[/url]

Have you tried a heating pad on the top and on the back of the head, as a means to relieve sinus problems? I have never gotten feedback from anyone, as to whether or not a heating pad has helped with their sinus disease. I think that it could work, if it was done correctly. So far, I have had no takers...

Let me know what you think about the "upside down sinus flooding". It has made a remarkable difference in my life. That is why I post about it.

Regards, and best of Health.


 
Old 04-19-2004, 09:43 AM   #13
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Thank you so much! I am going to try them both in the next week and see what happens. I will update you on both, because I have tried so many things and if this works, like you I want the world to know! *L*

Hugs-
Sheli

 
Old 04-19-2004, 10:12 AM   #14
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Re: damaged cell membranes in nose

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheliH3
Thank you so much! I am going to try them both in the next week and see what happens. I will update you on both, because I have tried so many things and if this works, like you I want the world to know! *L*

Hugs-
Sheli
I'll keep my fingers crossed!

I posted my experiences with electro-acupuncture and heating pads at:

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=13886&page=5&pp=5[/url]

Electro-Acupuncture really works. It can solve many health problems inexpensively. I use it at home, so I save a lot of expense and time. Plus.... I don't have to deal with our annoying and restrictive medical system.

Many Acupuncturists use the electro-pads, instead of needles, to treat their patients. In ancient China, they used to use heat on acupuncture areas to deal with health problems. I really feel that if they had heating pads 1000 years ago, they would have used a heating pad instead of burning some herbs on the acupuncture areas.

There are other "sinus treatment" areas that can be stimulated with a heating pad. I posted about some of them in the acupuncture thread. I had very few responses. I figured that either readers thought that I was insane , or they just weren't interested, so I didn't go any further.

Once again, best of luck!

 
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