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Old 10-12-2007, 01:23 PM   #1
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Unhappy all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

My daughter who is 2 years old started getting hives last December and they started being accompanied by fevers ranging from 100.5 to 105.6. She started having hip pain and her finger joints swelled up. She eventually stopped crawling trying to walk or move much at all and even stopped eating and drinking. The hives would be gone in the morning and get horrible by the end of the day and as the hives go worse the joint pain and fevers got worse. She was hospitalized several times and was on a feeding tube and got pneumonia. The tested her for almost every possible thing and nothing was found. Eventually her knees and wrist joints got involved so they decided she has systemic juvenile rheumatoid arthritis which is the most rare subclass of arthritis and that she has autoimmune urticaria. She is on steroids and has gotten huge and does not sleep well but is getting better. She started crawling again and eating, drinking and trying to walk. This went on for almost 9 months before she started getting well but we are finally seeing the old baby we knew with only 2-10 hives a week.

Now 5 days ago my 13 year old daughter wakes up with hives all over her legs and feet that itch horribly and cause poking pain in her feet. They eventually get on her whole arms and hands and cause the same pain in her hands. With a cool bath and creams they fade but come back later and on and on. The next day the same thing and then the next day we take her to the doc because she is now getting them on her buttock, back and face including her eye lids. While at the doctor when she would stand her feet and anywhere on her legs that there were no hives would turn deeeeep purple. The docs did not know why that was happening but ordered some basic tests which I told them would not tell us anything since they did not with my other daughter and I was right. Her joints in her fingers swell up when the hives are bad and she has headaches and a stomach.

I realized that 7 months prior to my baby getting hives my 16 year old son got hives and pneumonia and was super sick. They treated him with antihistamine and antibiotics and after 12 days he was well. It was the sickest he had ever been but it has never come back. Now that I realized that about 7-9 months apart each one has gotten this I am freaked.

do any of you who have hives know if others in your family has them too and with joint pain? Also any ideas would be great as we do not want to watch her suffer for 9 months like my other child nor do I want her on steroids if we do not need to do that.

Thanks

 
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:41 PM   #2
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

My 4 1/2 yr old daughter has recently been having the same symptoms (hives and joint pains). Have you had any luck finding out what this is ... what is causing this for your children? I also have a 3 yr old daughter who had come home from daycare with redness on her face and inner elbow area about 1 week or so before the 4 1/2 yr old started showing symptoms! But it faded and I did not think anymore about it until now!

Please let me know your status!

 
Old 10-16-2007, 10:33 PM   #3
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

I don't know the answer to the orginal poster about all the kids. Are they all still having problems? Sorry!

To Shelly, sounds to me like to one with the red face and the other info you said may be fifth disease. It can sometimes cause a fever and usually has joint pains. Not always is a rash present. Guess I can not put up a medical link on here but you can search it. It usually goes away on it's own and is not very dangerous, but can hurt a growing fetus so I hope you are not PG!

 
Old 10-18-2007, 03:46 PM   #4
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Hi Veggiegal,

Were any of your children vaccinated before the condition started?

Last edited by moldman; 10-18-2007 at 03:55 PM.

 
Old 10-19-2007, 12:35 PM   #5
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by moldman View Post
Hi Veggiegal,

Were any of your children vaccinated before the condition started?
My older child is now fine after about a week of the hives. The strange thing is we had some water issues in our basement that resulted in mold and after they came and quarantined the rooms and removed the mold she started to get better. When my other daughter got ill we lived in another house that also had water issues with the water heater that resulted in mold but the doctors said that could not be the cause. I'm not convinced I believe them and maybe because my younger daughter has a weaker immune system due to having Down syndrome and also being a baby it just affected her much more. I am going to have them tested for mold sensitivity. Maybe a coincidence but not so sure.

Thank you all for your replies

 
Old 10-23-2007, 07:39 PM   #6
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiegal View Post
My older child is now fine after about a week of the hives. The strange thing is we had some water issues in our basement that resulted in mold and after they came and quarantined the rooms and removed the mold she started to get better. When my other daughter got ill we lived in another house that also had water issues with the water heater that resulted in mold but the doctors said that could not be the cause. I'm not convinced I believe them and maybe because my younger daughter has a weaker immune system due to having Down syndrome and also being a baby it just affected her much more. I am going to have them tested for mold sensitivity. Maybe a coincidence but not so sure.

Thank you all for your replies

If your children have allergies to mold, this may well be a contributor to the problem. You need to go to an allergist, who will do a blood work up on your children plus do numerous scratch tests to determine the exact problem.

 
Old 10-24-2007, 08:38 AM   #7
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moldman HB User
Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Does anyone have any personal experience with scratch testing making things worse than before the test?

Our local PBS radio station had an interview with the nation's leading allergist and the head of our local children's food allergy group asked him if there was any data on it and he said no one knows if scratch tests can actually sensitize you to things that you weren't allergic to before.

 
Old 11-11-2007, 06:54 PM   #8
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Yes, I went into anaphylactic shock during the skin test and almoast died. Ever since that fateful day I have been extremely allergic to mold and have developed moderate MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) on a daily basis which becomes more severe when my mold allergy is hot. It completely changed my life and not for the better. I do not recommend the skin test to people. Pay the extra money and get the blood work instead. It's simply not worth the risk.....
Be Well,
S-

 
Old 11-12-2007, 07:42 AM   #9
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Hi Share,

I just posted to another one of your entries where I asked if you had any intiating event that you could tie to your mold problem - this looks like the answer! If you have any other events (even if they seem small, let me know).

I do not know much about the skin test, but the typical Antigens that are used after the test by non-Clinical Ecologists are preserved with phenol.

Phenol (if you don't know) is a nasty chemical that is used like formaldehyde (embalming fluid). It seems to me that if the scratch test ingredients (molds, etc) sensitized you to those antibodies, then your chemical allergies may also have their roots in exposure to any preservatives. Here's the catch - fruits and vegetables have phenols in one form or another (ever hear of polyphenol antioxidants?) If you find you have reactions to foods that may be either because they are moldy or they might have a certain kind of phenolic compound in them that you have been sensitized to.

In my other post I recommended a book that would explain the use of Zinc. The premise of the book is that it explains in detail the body's response with Histamine (ties in with anaphylaxis). Histamine is a vasodilator, neurotransmitter and immune modulator.

I am studying anaphylaxis along with serum sickness, but you need to realize that the medical texts out there are based on false premises (Dr. Gilbert Ling says that Cell Biology can't be understood because it is based on bad science). It is hard to sort out why the immune system goes haywire in a potentially lethal way because it makes no sense with respect to keeping the organism (us) alive. This is why modern medicine is full of palliatives, no cures, and a host of people like us are reaching out in the darkness trying to find answers with blinders on.

Vitamin C taken internally works on the H-1 receptors in the stomach so there is some impact on the Histamine cascade, however, these same receptors when triggered can also lower stomach acid production (so it can work against your stomach being able to protect you from outside nasties). Everything in moderation.

I haven't seen any postings on the use of bleach to combat mold for good reason - it is generally ineffective. Plus if you have MCS you probably can't tolerate it. Most people with Candida and mold problems may not be able to tolerate vinegar but it has an unofficially recognized impact on mold. I talked to a major vinegar producer and they said that they cannot list that it is a good antimicrobial because they are not willing to go through the testing and registration with the EPA. Vinegar (acetic acid) is a mold waste product so it would make sense that some molds couldn't tolerate it. Nothing likes to live in its own waste. However (there's always a catch) organic acids can be food for bacteria. So, referring to your other post, you might consider spraying your shoes with vinegar if you can tolerate it.

As the comedian Red Green says: Hang in there - we're all in this together...

 
Old 11-12-2007, 08:47 PM   #10
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miyu HB Usermiyu HB User
Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Wow I never thought of the 2 of them having a connection, but I too get unbelievable hives, and a lot of joint pain. Started to notice it when I was a child and as I got older it seemed to get worse, I get small fevers off and on all the time. I figure the hives were cause by something external, like cat dander, or grass pollen or mold. I treat it with creams, that is all that has helped me because no matter where I move it always goes with me. I figure he base of all my problems are related to food, or inhaling something, Iím just not sure which.
Quote:
I'm not convinced I believe them and maybe because my younger daughter has a weaker immune system due to having Down syndrome and also being a baby it just affected her much more.
Also having allergies weakens you immune system. I do believe allergies is an autoimmune disease, that cannot be figured out. Why all the fevers and I canít seem to get a proper DX for it. So I understand your pain. I really hope you figure it out for your children, because for myself, it has only gotten worse over the years.

 
Old 11-12-2007, 09:25 PM   #11
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

There are so many possibilities
This is what I have come up with that make life somewhat livable.

Hives can be external or internal
So it could be something they are touching. or food intolerance, even breathing it can cause hives.

Joint pain is usually because of malnutrition caused by a food intolerance. For example if you have a gluten allergy, by eating gluten your autoimmune attacks the cilia in your stomach making it impossible to absorbed ANY vitamins/minerals or nutrients. If you have an intolerance to any food, they basically all do the same thing, this weakens your immune system.


This is what I figure a fever is cause by:
And I figure if you are having a fever your body is fighing something. A healthy person the body is fighting a virus. Not healthy person the body is attacking its self. I figure if you have am intollarance and you cannot figure out what it is, and you keep being exposed to it day after day, some how it gets into the blood. Nothing should be in the blood but blood cells, so the body attacks this forign substance.
Now I’ll give 2 example of what could happen, I don’t know what your child is exposed to, or another symptoms, so hopefully these 2 example may help you able to pin point what you think it is. But neither of these example have yet to be proven. You try to tell a doctor this and they will say “you have no proof, so you don’t know” and they like to leave it up in there air for you to suffer with.


Example 1
Inhaling allergens (using mold as an example but there are many inhaled allergins)
Lets say she is allergic to mold, but you don’t know where the mold is and you can’t prove she has a mold allergy, (doctors say she doesn’t have a mold allergy) but lets say she does anyway, and she keeps in haling it. Constantly inhaling it… her immune system gets weaker. Her lungs get weaker as the cilia gets damaged she is unable to fight virus as well. (viruses’ are inhaled) She coughs a lot…. This mold overload become a toxin to her body, and begins slowly poisoning her, her body is working hard to get the toxins out, she is working on eliminating this “toxin” through her liver, kidneys, stools and Skin. She gets bouts of diarrhea and her skin gets hives because of this elimination. The organs become tired and sluggish, she becomes tired and sluggish.. the toxins now start entering her blood, because the organs are now sluggish, not eliminating it fast enough. she runs a fever.


Example 2
Ingesting allergens (I’m using gluten, but there are many different foods that do the same or similar things)
She se gets food allergy tests and you eliminate the foods she is allergic to, but you never tested for gluten, when it could be the hidden trigger, because your doctor doesn’t feel he needs to test you for gluten. (this happened to me, if only my doctor tested for ciliac I could have been dxed as a child and not have gone though years and years of not knowing the reason) so she eats gluten, sometimes a little and she does good, sometimes lots and she does bad. When she eats the gluten, the body responds by attacking the villi, making it impossible to absorb nutrients. The body lacks these nutrients and becomes toxic overloaded, the organs don’t work as well just as the above example. The constant damage, causes the food particles get into the blood stream, causing a fever.
Having a food allergy is nearly identical to the above example(inhaled allergy), only one is damaging the hairs in the lungs and one is damaging the hairs in the stomach. Or she could have both. (more common the people think)
Symptoms of Ciliac are: (a lot like allergies, so if she has allergies it may be missed, just as it was for me) most of these symptoms do not affect a child because it takes years of damage for them to show. Which is why most people are not DXed with it until 15 years of a crappy life goes by, and these symptoms just keeps getting worse not better. Then doctors FINALLY catch it.

• gas
• recurring abdominal bloating and pain
• chronic diarrhea
• constipation
• pale, foul-smelling, or fatty stool
• weight loss/weight gain
• fatigue
• unexplained anemia (a low count of red blood cells causing fatigue)
• bone or joint pain
• osteoporosis, osteopenia
• behavioral changes
• tingling numbness in the legs (from nerve damage)
• muscle cramps
• seizures
• missed menstrual periods (often because of excessive weight loss)
• infertility, recurrent miscarriage
• delayed growth
• failure to thrive in infants
• pale sores inside the mouth, called aphthous ulcers
• tooth discoloration or loss of enamel
• itchy skin rash called “dermatitis herpetiformis”

fever is not on the list but I do believe it to be a symptom.

Last edited by miyu; 11-12-2007 at 09:27 PM.

 
Old 11-13-2007, 06:14 AM   #12
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

Please see my reply to "would peanut allergie hives come and go".
It's not about peanuts.
Have you had your children tested for strep? And not just a throat culture but a blood test?
Strep in children does not always present with a severe soar throat and if left untreated can lead to some nasty stuff.
My son has had strep quite a few times and ALWAYS gets hives from it but DOES NOT always get a severe soar throat.
The joint pain and swelling you describe are worrying and although it's not common anymore strep can and does still lead to rheumatic fever/scarlet fever. Please see my other post and if you do decide to have them tested make sure they do a Blood test, not just a throat culture.
Good luck to you.

Last edited by kdel; 11-13-2007 at 06:15 AM.

 
Old 11-13-2007, 07:13 AM   #13
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

To follow up on kdel's idea:
It is in the textbooks but I didn't believe it until I heard it word-for-word from a close friend. She got strep throat and got antibiotics. It went away then she got it again, so she got antibiotics and it went away. Then she noticed that her dog was ill so she took it to the vet and it got antibiotics and it got better. Then it got ill again. So did she. She found out (from her vet) that they had been passing strep between them and unless they were both treated at the same time they would never break the cycle.

Since her sister is on dialysis I told her that strep is a dangerous thing to have since it resides in the nasopharynx but it can migrate to what is called Focus Organs. It will set up there and cause many different diseases. It can kill your kidneys in 2 weeks and if you go to the doctor with full kidney fail they can do all kinds of tests and the strep won't even show up because it had run its course.

By all means do the blood test and if you have ANY pets have them tested and treated at the same time. (Personally, I think that pets are the cause of 80% of all allergies in the U.S.)

 
Old 11-13-2007, 07:45 AM   #14
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Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

I would look into the mold as the culprit whether they test positive to it or not. Mold can be dangerous, I wouldn't want to be exposed to it. I have heard and read many stories about folks who have had large mold exposures....

 
Old 11-13-2007, 08:44 AM   #15
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kdel HB Userkdel HB User
Re: all of my children have had hives and some joint pain HELP

I'm not saying it can't be mold. By all means it can. I just think that strep is also a possibilty and should be checked. So why not do both.

 
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