Not quite sure anyone can answer this question - Alzheimer's Disease & Dementia Message Board

VeryOldLady · 12-09-2003, 12:03 AM

Before you answer this question, please don't look up any of my past posts. I want the answers to be based on experience and/or knowledge alone and not on what you think I want to hear. I accept the fact that not many people will be able to answer, but if anyone does have a clue concerning this question (and not just a personally calculated hypothesis or theory) I would certainly love to hear it. Here goes:

I've heard that a symptom of alz is that the patient forgets the recent years but remembers the early childhood years...often to the point where they believe they are still children. So, my question is..In recalling the early childhood years, does the patient remember things (s)he had long forgotten during the active adult years that again emerges as alz progresses, or does (s)he remember only what was never forgotten throughout the childhood and adult years, as the present memories fade? Or do the early childhood memories even OCCUR in the early stages of alz?

For instance, lets say the patient (we'll call Cathy, for pronoun-confusion control) waaay back at the age of 4 had a friend the same age named Lisa, and a dog named Spot. Let's say Cathy had moved soon after becoming friends with Lisa, but took her dog Spot with her and they grew up together. Soon, Cathy made new friends in her new town and had totally forgotten about Lisa and even her name, but continued throughout her life to remember Spot. Lets say Cathy goes through an active life, yet still doesn't recall Lisa, but Spot continued to be a fond memory. When Cathy develops alz, will she suddenly remember Lisa? Or would her memory of Lisa still be a loss to her along with the more current and recent memories fading away, while still remembering Spot? I have been told that nothing is lost in the memory once it has been placed there...like a hard drive...and that recalling is like trying to retrieve the data on the hard drive...the problem isn't that it's lost, but that it's difficult to retrieve (though I don't quite agree with this...but this isn't the issue). Ok, but if this is true, then would the forgotten earlier memories (including Lisa) be retrieved or would the always present memories (not including Lisa, but definately remembering Good ol' Spot) be strengthened to the point of a strong convincing sense of reality (like asking people to check up on Spot)? If she DID suddenly remember Lisa, would this occur during the beginning stages of Alz, or is this something that would occur near the middle or late stages?

I suppose what I'm trying to ask is if those posting in behalf of yourselves who are suffering from Alz have experience sudden bursts of memories long forgotten? Or if those of you who are posting in behalf of your loved-ones who have alz have experienced your loved ones mentioning that they had suddenly remembered things that had been long forgotten in the past? If so, in what stage of alz did this occur?

Thanks in advance for your replies. I hope the question wasn't too vague or confusing.

SciTeach · 12-09-2003, 08:17 AM

What I have noticed about memory with my Mom is that she has no long term or short term memory. She knows her children (not always by name) and her husband. But if you try to talk to her about anything in the past, recent or long ago, she doesn't have a clue.

Her verbal skills are so limited that even if she DOES remember something, we'd never know. She uses made up words and sounds when she "talks" and it's nigh on to impossible to know what she means.

I don't know if this even comes close to answering your question but it's the best I can do today. (not having an "up" day)

SciTeach

gizmolove · 12-09-2003, 07:21 PM

This reason that this question is so hard to answer is that for each person who
has Alzheimer's, there is a different reaction or symptoms. Not all Alzheimer's progresses at the same rate. Effect people the same way. Or limit people the same or cause the same problems in each AD sufferer. As everyone's life experiences are different. And, as everyone's brain is different. You can see why you may ask this question to a hundred people and get 100 different answers that are for the general part,,,similar, yet none the same. Now I know that this is a rather vague answer. But, then again your question was again a little vague also.

I think that what you are asking is that, do AD patients remember long ago and do they remember it with more clarity than the present? The answer is yes and no. They remember long ago, yes. Do they remember it clearer, well "no", not really. See, it's not so much that they are remembering events like you and I would remember a baseball game we attended 40 years ago. It's more like they are watching the baseball game on TV and wonder why you don't see Babe Ruth also? "Well, there he is, right there you idiot, don't tell me you can't see him?" My mom didn't remember what her girlhood house looked like. But, she did want to go "home" to her "mom and dad" 'cause she was tired of playing at my house and her mom would worry because she had never stayed away from home this long before.

No, people are not actually remembering the past so much as they are caught in a time loop and they are LIVING in the past, in the here and now. The past is the present to them. You may ask me who the president is, I'd say George W....ask my mom and it could be Hoover or FDR. That's just the way it is. It's paticularly horrid if someone has been abused in childhood or their early years. This is especially horriable for them to relive that horror, everyday as if it is happening again, right now. It's not that today is hard to remember. I found that in most cases with digression that today, indeed, has not happened yet! And, no matter the degree of digression, if it's 1940, 1960 or yesterday,,,,,the brain is not connecting properly so facts will become less clear, not more clear as time and brain damage progresses. Not only do they digress back into time, but time and events become muddy and confused in a tangle of short circuts and electron miss-fireings, that short out in a tangled and confused mess. My mom used to love to go danceing. And in the present, right now, she was bed-ridden and 82. One evening as I tucked her in for the night she said, "CAll the boys will you, and tell them that we can't meet them tonight? I am just exhausted and just don't feel like danceing." I told her that I was also tired and didn't feel like danceing tonight either, and that I'm sure that the "boys" will understand and we can always make it another night. She was grateful for that. And she went right to sleep.

The human brain is a marvelous thing. It's just so sad and heartbreaking when it turns against you. And even harder still when it takes the one's that you love away from you, (inch by inch, cell by cell). And, especially when THEY don't even know it. It truely is a "LIVING DEATH".

I am sorry, but I can't be of much help. Everyone, you see, is different. I went to a Alzheimer's seminar last Spring. They said to think of Alzheimer's as a window blind. With the blind up all the way, it's today,,,,,today in space and in time. As the AD progresses, the blind slowly lowers. And, as it lowers it becomes just that much farther back in time for the Alzheimer's patient. You could also say that as the blind lowers, that there is just that much less life ahead also for that person, as we ALL have only a finite time on this earth. With the blind down half way the person will be in a mid-life time line. They may find that the home that they are living in now doesn't look like the one in 1950, or in 1962. They may want to know where someone is that died many years ago, and they may not even recognise people in their lives who are less than 20--30 or 40 years old, (because of course, they havent been born yet). Also, none of us look like we do 20-30--40 or 50 years ago, even if we are still alive. So, we may be mistaken for an older relative. (My girlfriend is mistaken as her mothers sister, because her mother has digressed to a state before her children were born ,and her sister died young. So, once a week her mother visits with her "sister" for a few hours. What harm is there in that? Once my friend found out, how and why her mom's brain worked, she no longer felt slighted by her mom's not recognising her. And was just glad to bring a smile to her mom's face every week, as she posed as her own dead aunt and happily chats away with her mom).

Alzheimer's is a crazy diesase. My only suggestion is to not curse what it has taken away, just be ever so greatful for what is still left.

Hope this helps,
Gizmo

Bettyhere · 12-09-2003, 07:41 PM

I think Gizmo has given about as clear an explanation as you'll get. I'm sure you have a reason for your quest, just not sure why and what it is. Sometimes they may remember something, and sometimes they are in the long-ago moment. One night, as I tucked my husband into bed, he said, 'thank you, Mommy'. My blood turned to ice and I had this strange feeling that I was seeing him thru my MIL's eyes, that she loved him and cared for him as a little boy and he was happy. So I was seeing my husband as my little boy--actually, I've never been able to get my mind competely around my feelings that night--but that's not unusual w/AD, so I don't think it was a memory, I think he was just in that long-ago moment and I'll be darned if I knew where I was! While it is true that we normally store memories and retrieve them from time to time, the AD patient cannot retrieve them as time goes on because the memory is 'lost' and you cannot retrieve what is lost. The brain cells are dying off and taking the memories w/them.

camachinist · 12-09-2003, 08:56 PM

Simply put, the AD/dementia patient is de-evolving and living (emotionally and cognitively) in the world of that moment.

They don't necessarily remember their childhood (as you or I might), they have become the child at that moment.

From what our psych told us, with my mom anyway, barring any FLD (front lobe dementia), her social skills will be the last to go, as they were learned at the earliest stages of her development. So, she may be seeing people in her house, but she treats them like visitors and offers them food and drink and is offended when they just sit quietly and don't accept her hospitality.

Such is the insanity of this disease

Best wishes!

Pat