I need help with trying to get my parents to let me get a poa or dpoa. I have lightly discussed this with my mother, but so far, she says they are not ready. To recap: father has alzheimers (around a 5) and parkinsons and mother has uncontrolled diabetes and early dementia (about a 3). I am on 2 checking accounts only. I already have trouble when I pay their bills (with them there) getting people to talk to me. I am sure I will encounter more problems in the near future!
One of the things I would like yall to tell me is: How did you get your relatives to let you get the POA or DPOA? How can I convince them? I think we need to do this soon because my father is getting closer to not making sense and/or understanding some things. Also, how well do they have to understand things to enable us to get a POA/DPOA? I did tell my mother that there are kinds, that they can do things and I can do things - correct? My sister said it would be alright with her if just I get it. She trusts me and I trust her.
Also, where can I get free copies of poa/dpoa?
I know I have/will have more ?s, but for now see if you guys can help me out.
Last edited by WannaBeFreeToRoam; 06-26-2005 at 08:38 AM.
Reason: left something out, punctuation
There is no easy answer about getting your folks to cooperate, but the Durable Power of Attorney for each parent is the way to go. That allows you to make medical decisions and business decisions for them when they cannot do it themselves. A DPOA or POA is no longer of any use once that parent dies. I do not know of any free POAs or DPOAs. It's a legal document that is drawn up by a lawyer and that lawyer asks the parent questions to be sure she/he understands what she/he is about to sign. It cannot be done if the parent is too confused.
My mother's church had a program about planning your estate: wills, gifts, living wills, trusts, and DPOAs. When my mother was well able to make her own decisions (my father had died), she had a lawyer prepare a DPOA giving me that responsibility and she signed it. It was simple as I'm an only child. I knew nothing about it until early in her Alzheimer's when I had to tell her it was time for me to see the important papers. There was the DPOA. It had been ready "just in case" since 1987. I took Mom and the DPOA to Mom's current lawyer to look it over and let me know if anything more was needed. It was fine. Before I could use it as permission to pay Mom's bills, I had to take a doctor's statement and the DPOA to the courthouse to show the need and have it registered. The court office gave me several certified copies of the DPOA to give or send to agencies like Social Security to prove I was the person who could handle Mom's business (for example, I got her SS checks directly deposited into her account).
My in-laws gave my DH their DPOAs before they took an overseas vacation last year. We have those DPOAs in the lock box "just in case" they need our help in the future. It's just good sense. Sadly, too many people wait too late or see it as an intrusion into their private business.
Thanks for the info. It will help a lot! The only problem is - my mother is very "cheap"! She would not want to pay for a lawyer at this point! That is one of the reasons I would like a copy of a DPOA to look at and to show them. Then maybe I could get them to a lawyer before it is too late for my dad. Maybe I can get a copy at the library (with VOID on it)?
Also, if it becomes useless when just one dies, what happens. Is it still good if both of them sign it? And if I am the executor of their will, is that the best for after both of them are gone?
My inlaws back in 1999 before THEIR overseas trip got their wills 'fixed' and did a Power of Attorney over each other 'just in case'. The way it was worded was FIL had POA over MIL with 2 out of 3 sons (BIL and my DH) having Power of Attorney if he is incapacitated or dead.
MIL had an identical one over FIL again with the 2 sons as backup.
So even if the other dies, they're covered. Did that make sense?
I can type out the 'wording' of the POA if you like ... but it's Australian .. we do have a place here called "The Public Trustee" who will do all your legal work for free and only take their cut at death (probate) they do wills and all sorts of things ... might be worth looking into??
THIS POWER OF ATTORNEY is made on the ..................day of ...............2005
by .........insert name of adult giving POA here....................
of .........insert address here ...........................
1. I appoint .......insert name of desired person here ............
of ...........insert address here .............
and ...........insert names of back ups here .................
of..............back-up's addresses here
to be my attorney(s) (where more than one jointly and/or severally) to exercise, subject to any conditions and limitations specified in Part 2 of this Instrument, the authority conferred on him/her/them by SEction 163B of the Conveyancing Act, 1919, to do on my behalf anything I may lawfully authorise an attorney to do.
*2 In the exercise of the authority conferred on him/her/them by Section 163B of the Conveyancing Act, 1919, my attorney(s) is/are aturhoised to execute an assurance or other document, or do any other act, whereby a benefit is conferred on him/her/them.
*3. This general power of attorney is given with the intention that it will continue to be effective notwithstanding that after its execution I suffer loss of capacity through unsoundness of mind.
CONDITIONS AND LIMITATIONS
Notwithstanding the appointment of the said (insert names of Back Up's here) as my Attornies they shall have no power to act on my behalf unless the said (insert original adult POA name here) is unable to act as my ATtorney due to his death or mental incapacity.
IN WITNESS whereof I the said ........insert name of adult having POA.....
have hereunto set my hand and seal on the abovementioned date.
SIGNED SEALED and DELIVERED
by the said .......insert name of adult needing this.....} signed here...........
in the presence of
CERTIFICATE UNDER SECTION 163F(2) OF THE CONVEYANCING ACT 1919
I ....... (name of lawyer).............
of ........ (the lawyers address)...........
hereby certify that:
1. I explained the effect of the General Power of ATtorney on the preceding page to the Grantor of the General Power ofAttorney before it was executed.
2. I am a prescribed person (not being an attorney under this General Power of Attorney.
3. I have attested the execution of this Power of Attorney by the Grantor.
........................................ .......signature........................ .......
Solicitor or Barrister or Clerk of Petty Sessions
* Prescribed Persons
For the purpose of attesting an instrument under SEction 163F(2)(b) of the Conveyancing Act 1919 ("the Act") the following are prescribed persons:
1. Attesting within Australia
A clerk of petty sessions, a barrister or solicitor of a Court of any State or Territory of the Commonwealth but excluding a solicitor who acts foror is employed in the legal practice of a solicitor appointed as an attorney under the instrument or a solicitor who is a member of a partnership which carries on legal practice of which an attorney under the instrument is a member.
2. Attesting outside Australia
A person referred to in 1 above or a legal practitioner duly qualified in that country, instructed and employed independently of any legal practitioner appointed under the instrument.
LEGAL STAMP IN LARGE SPACE HERE
Lodged by: (insert name of the person who lodged this at the Courthouse)
That's an Australian one ... or Commonwealth one ... but from all this apparent, you can get legal documents witnesses and signed at a local courthouse for free ..
well . .. you can here ....
Worth asking about at least!
Oh and PS: My FIL is FAMOUS for being cheap .. this is the man who recycles GARBAGE BAGS, cuts up A4 paper into A5 and makes tiny letters .. he's got the $$ .. and that's probably why, but you can't skimp on your HEALTH or your SAFETY .. and that's what you'll have to push home to your parents. There's one thing being thrifty, another thing being stupid.
Last edited by mustang_sally; 06-26-2005 at 03:11 PM.
To answer your questions (and I have no law training), I think that each parent must have a DPOA for themselves - not both parents on one DPOA. They can both designate (as Sally said) the same person to have the responsibility in case it's needed. There may be a sample DPOA on line or at the library but you'll have to check about that. Perhaps a local law office has a brochure about POAs that they could give you.
If money is really an issue, your area may have a legal aid organization. If it's just penny-pinching, your mother probably knows that for a few issues in life (buying a house, making your will), you simply must have a lawyer do so there are no mistakes. DPOAs and POAs are that kind of issue. My mother was also "tight" with money and she paid the lawyer.
When each parent has a separate DPOA, only the DPOA for the deceased parent is void. The living parent's DPOA is still good. At the time of death, the will becomes the governing document. Many couples just leave everything to the surviving spouse and things stay much the same. When the second parent dies, that person's will governs what is done with the remaining money and possessions.
An elder care lawyer could answer your questions better that I can.
I really appreciated all the help and the Australian copy of a DPOA (Sally)! I guess what I need to do is talk to my mom again (under the best circumstances!) and show her a copy of a DPOA. Then if she will not go (she mostly governs the house now), I can go to an elder attorney myself. Also, I will make sure we do one for each of them, like yall said. Maybe if I talked to my dad too, he might would get excited about it and think it needs to be done. He does the thing about fixating on one thing for a while. Why not this thing?!
Oh yeah, my mom is just cheap - they can afford most stuff.
Thanks again, I will be back talking again later - I am sure!!!
there are plenty of online companies that will do a POA for you... do a search on ***** for "power of attorney forms".. I used one called lawdepot... you type in the information they ask for and they'll prepare it for you. You pay a fee (I think it was around $19) and you can ******** it. I got my mother to sign a POA for financial and one for health care by telling her that if by any chance something were to happen to her we didn't want to go through what Terri Schiavo's family went through. Her wishes would be respected through me and it would also allow me to manage her finances if she were to be incapacitated. Her sister and brother-in-law did one not too long ago so I also told her that I would like to have her do one so I could keep it with theirs and so that we could all have the peace of mind that everything would be taken care of if needed. She is in a nursing home at mid-stage so I got a psychiatrist to come in and evaluate her for competency and she found her competent to sign the POA's so I got a notary public and a witness to come in and she signed the papers in front of the witness who also had to sign and then the notary public notarized everything. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info. What kind of info did you have to type in? Their SS? their DOB? or what? Is the site secure? I guess I could look for the little "lock" at the bottom. Did you - or will you - go to a lawyer at the end of that process? Is that still legal?
The part about Terri Schiavo might help. And we are fixing to go on a family reunion, so maybe my Uncle and Aunt could help my cause?! We just cannot peckle too hard, or they (especially my mom) will go in the opposite direction!
they don't ask for any personal information like that... they just ask you for the information they need to type in to the document for you... these are things like, the name of the person doing the POA, their address, the name of the person or persons whom they're naming as their POA, their address, and then they have all the powers that they can give them and you just check off which ones apply to your case and then they have an extra paragraph where you can add in things that apply to your situation like for instance, my mother owns property in another state so I added a paragraph giving me POA to sell her property and power to deal with any legal things that come up with that property in that state. Then all you do is pay the amount, it is secure, and then they prepare it for you with your information and you get to see it and keep it without printing for a couple of weeks and in this time you get to make any changes you want and edit and re-edit to your heart's content until you're satisfied it's exactly what you want and everything's in there that you want and then you print it up. Just get a notary public and a witness and follow the instructions they give you to make sure it's done right and you're all set. You don't need a lawyer. If it's prepared right, initialed on each page and notarized by a notary public then that's all you need. The only time you'll need to do anything else is if you're planning to sell real estate in which case you need to file a copy of the POA in your local court. If you need to have the person evaluated make sure a notation is made of it somewhere. I had the psychiatrist put it in her chart that she had evaluated her for a POA and found her competent and then do the POA as soon as possible after this date. I had the POA done 4 days after the evaluation. Keep in mind that this worked for me and not all situations are the same and if there's any doubt you should still consult a lawyer for your own peace of mind. Good luck. Let me know if I can answer anything else... I'm happy to do it... we're all in this together and need to help each other out.
Mom had to sign a POA in order to get the HHA to come starting in October. She just went along with Bill and signed everything. This was at a time she could not find her way home. The Notary Public didn't ask if she were 'normal' or not, in spite of her age (96.)
Mom once had a will. It was really general and only said I leave all my belongings in 3 equal parts to my 3 children.
I had to pack up all her things for moving a couple of weeks ago (seems like another world, another time) and found the envelope marked "my Will." It was empty. Mom herself must have destroyed it or hid it or ??? It never showed up. Bill says no worry: when she passes on it will automatically go to her 3 kids, if anything is left (because if she needs a NH, there won't be after a few months ...)
I am not worried, I never planned her money into my future plans .. I am going to do fine on my own!
My supplementary Health Insurance price went down by almost $50 a month just by moving to Indiana ..NY must be considered unhealthy, although I don't know why - you do so much walking, it keeps you very fit!!
Last edited by Martha H; 06-28-2005 at 01:46 PM.
Thanks KalicoKitty - with all that info (I have printed all yall have said), I should be able to do this sometime in July or August. Cross your fingers - but do not hold your breath! I probably will ask you again for more help.
Martha, Thanks to you too. If you do not mind me asking - what is HHA? Are you in US? What state, if yes? I am in Texas and I wonder if they have something like that here.
I think I know where their will is, but it would be nice to have a copy! We (one of us 3 - Mom, Dad, Me) have lost many things. Sometimes they get found and sometimes not. So, I am learning (sometimes) to copy what is really important when I have my hands on it. Sometimes I have to do it when they are gone, which is very hard to do as I take them places a lot!
What part of TX are you stuck in?? I say that not to be insulting if you're a TX native, just that we were in Waco for 10 long, very hot years and we're from back east. TN, then KY, and now in VA as that's where my Mom w/ Alzheimer's lived and we came here to help her. We love it here - real seasons, and so green. Only downside is state income tax and that's a bummer!