I want to say something and try to get some help - it seems that is the only reason I come on here anymore?! I do know that mine and my familys problems are no worse than yalls...
We have been going thru the get the pace maker or dont get the pacemaker thing, with my dad (Alzheimers and Parkinsons). Who is living at home - just the 2 of them - with my mom who has early dementia and uncontrolled diabetes. We have 2 drs. envolved, his family dr. and a cardiologist.
My parents especially my dad, keep wanting to go back and talk - back and forth and back and forth - to get the drs. to help them make up their mind. Well these drs. are tired of it. So, am I and now my mom sort of is.
We have seen the cardio dr. 3 or 4 times, including a the top stress tests - and of course lying down (with good results from that). The family dr. is a doll and deals also with the patients in a nursing home. He has the patience of an angel. The cardio needs more bedside thereapy. Which I believe I have said hear before!!! :>
Anyway, they settled with giving my father some pills that will maybe bring up his pulse and blood pressure or maybe just his pulse or maybe nothing!!!
He is to take these pills 2 x day for 2 mo. and then - with several heart/pulse tests in between, to see if they are doing what my parents expect! One thing that gets in the way - is where he has his pulse taken. After a long walk down the hall. After waiting 1 hour. Sitting in his lounger chair at home (the home health lady).
Ok, I know yall are saying, speak up you dumb fool!!!!! But, I do not know why but, out parents (my sister and I), would not put us 1st on the POA or anything. We finally got it all set up after working on it for a year - with them. Then they say, Mom is to be dads POA and then Wannabe 2nd and sister 3rd. Then they also say, Dad is to be moms POA and then Wannabe 2nd and sister 3rd. How do you like that.
I asked the family dr. what it would take to get this done, me as the 1st one, and he said a whole, whole lot. Including legal and fighting. 2 Drs. - my dads and my moms would both have to say he's bonkers (incapacitated) and she's bonkers(incapacitated).
So, I am just really telling yall our sob story and to warn the newer ones...
Also, just to let you know that my mom is coming out of denial very much faster, but just cannot say - husband you are going to do what I say!!!
And my dad is at the stage that he will say yes pacemaker, one day, one hour, one week, one minute. And then the very next ""same words as above"" he will change his mind. My mom used to do that too. Now I think she realizes that you just cannot do that. And she also realizes that we are going to have to put up more danger (nots) and preventatives of everthing that could possibly be done in a bad/unknown way to/by him.
Sorry if this does not make much sense.
Thanks for listening. I am going tomorrow and watch my dad - so my mom can go to the red hat ladies. Let her enjoy herself why she can.
I hear your screams of frustration my friend .. !!!
First of all .. with the POA .. if it goes:
For Dad
to Mum
to you
to sister
and for Mum it goes:
For Mum
to Dad
to you
to sister
if Mum and Dad are both diagnosed as Dementia and therefore not capable of making decisions for themselves nor each other, I would believe the next person in line would be the one to take the honour.
Which means, ultimately, you have the right to stomp into anywhere you like, and say "these people have dementia, they have no understanding of what is expected of them, and it's my job to protect them as best I can".
I suggest you get a letter from your doctor stating that both your parents are no longer capable of quality decision making too ...
It's time to stop giving them ownership unfortunately, and time for you to call in the big guns .. legally, morally and ethically.
Sorry if I sound harsh .. I don't mean to be .. and as for you saying you only ever come to this board for help .. I mean for heavens sake, that's what we're here for !!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Anyway, back to Dad .. of course he's going to bounce between yes and no for the pacemaker, he forget's the implications, he forgets his agreeance, he forgets his rejection, he may even get to the hospital and be in pre-op, and forget why he's there and get up !!! He's no longer capable of big decision making like this. I'm sure he's having enough trouble figuring out which cereal to eat for breakfast let alone a medical procedure!!
And Poor Mum, who, although in early stages, is a challenge, PLUS the added stress of Dad .. no wonder the woman has dementia !!! I would too ! LOL .....(and seriously, has the doctor looked at stress induced dementia for her??)
OH honey, the implications are enormous ... but I want you to promise me you will vent as often as you like here .. I would HATE to see my old posts .. I wonder how everybody put up with me until I made the FINAL decision to take control and make things happen. It was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life, but it HAD to be done ... and nobody else was gonna do it were they? I kept waiting for somebody else to take ownership of the situation, but that didn't happen, so necessity made me finally make the moves to get EVERYBODY safe ...
Sally is right. If you are second on the POA list, you are already in charge. The first person on the list is already diagnosed with Alzheimer, whatever stage. So you can boldly go up to the doctor, hospital nurse, anybody, and say, I want this and this for my father.
In your case I think it is high time for both of your parents to be moved into a facility where he can getthe care he needs and your mother will be relieved of it. Maybe once she is not the primary caregiver her Dementia symptoms will disappear. It does not sound to me as if her symptoms are getting worse, and maybe it isn't AD at all but just the stress of being around someone all day, every day, who is totally irrational.
In fact her diabetes alone can account for some of her confusion, especially if as you say it is not under control WHY NOT? Diabetes is not curable but is very much treatable. Something is wrong here, that it is still not under control. She may only need a few days in a hopsital under supervision - only eatng what they allow, taking her insulin correctly, testing her blood sugar correctly - before she is released as a 'controlled' diabetes patient That may make all the difference in her life.
Please please consider placement. If they want to be together, they can both be in the same nursing home. But they wil be cared for, kept safe, kept on the right meds (who is sure your dad is even taking his? My Mom used to take too many or not enough and insist she was taking them correctly!) You are too far away to supervise their every move and it would also be horrible for your own health to have to do so.
Be strong, be brave, get your sister and go to nursing homes in the area, put him on waiting lists, and as soon as a position opens, move your parents in. It will turn out to be the best thing you ever did for them. The care they get there may prolong their lives. Uncontrolled diabetes is a killer. Your poor Mom may not outlive your dad if this goes on.
Love,
Martha
(((BIG hugs)))))))) I know you are in mental pain and anguish.
Wannabe, it's time for you to take charge. Talk to an attorney to find out what if anything has to be done to get the doctors to accept your decisions instead of your mom and dad's. Bring copies of their medical records showing AD and dementia. You can obtain these by bringing your POA to the medical records dept of their hospital and doctor's offices. If they refuse to give them to you, tell them you are trying to prove that they can no longer make medical decisions on their own. Tell the people the story about the difficulty your dad and mom are having with this pacemaker decision if you must. I've found that most people I've talked to regarding my dad's medical care have been receptive to helping me more when I sweet talk them and be honest.
Talk to mom and tell her of your concerns about their inability to make this critical decision. Be nice and gentle about it (I know you always are ).
What would these pills do for your dad? Do you think that a pacemaker would benefit him? I've had to make some medical decisions for my dad. It wasn't easy at all. I was the one who decided that dad would not have surgery to remove the tumor in his brain. It was a difficult decision. But with dad's past diagnosis of congestive heart failure and the fact that he went code blue when he was having an angiogram made that decision a little easier for me. After his last angiogram, his doctor told me that dad could never go under general anesthesia again. They completely lost his blood pressure and pulse. He pretty much died for a few seconds. They had to stop the angiogram because of it. And so my decision had to be based on what the facts were and not what my heart was telling me.
I don't mean to scare you but it's something to think about. Would it be better for your dad to have the pacemaker or would it be better to not? What do his doctors say about the risks? Weigh the risks against the benefits.
It's a tough decision and one that I hope to never have to make again. I'll be praying for you and your family. You will need strength to get through this.
Thanks for al the good sage advice!!! I know, I know, I have heard it before. At least some of it... :>
I was at my parents to do the normal bill paying, pill fixing and ordering and problems solving. I also get to chunk some yucky stuff when no one was looking. I knew from the start it was going to be a bad day, when I got there at 9:45 am and my dad was still asleep.
My mom was all dressed and excited about her purple/red hat ladies lunch/outing and totally forgot about my dad. So, I am not (so far) taking care of his dressing and toileting - so that took him at least an hour or more!!! I just did my stuff and made sure he did not go back to sleep again. Which he did about twice. Get cleaned up, rest on bed, put on clothes, rest on bed, brush hair, rest on bed.... :> And then I just fixed him a very small brkfst so he could take his morning pills.
I could go on and on about today, but it really was not that bad. We talked and I took us to lunch and we looked at some old pictures from his work retirement party!!! He remembers almost every single person that was there in those picstures!!! That is how it goes...
I will reply back on the advice issue. I do have a few excuses and some of the advice is not viable and some is very easy to do. So, I will print yall in the am and write back and maybe yall and some more can help me get another big, big thing done for my parents and the rest of our family for 2006.!!! :> Thanks for all yalls help. Anyone else, is welcome to chime in.
And thanks ever so much for my old great sweet friends.
What do we do????? 
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