Mom is moved into our home. It is me and my spouse who is such a dear, and now Mom, who I try to let stay independent. I feel such relief she is here.
Right now she is sleeping. She has a big day tomorrow with her companion.
After her move, I keep expecting her to ask about her old place, her furniture, etc...but she seems to have forgotten.
Anyways, I just finished most of the paperwork for her living trust; the 2 deeds and 3 bank accounts are processing.
I wanted her old house in the trust since she did live there when it was established.
Anyways, we have questions about being reimbursed by her for AD proofing our home and also for groceries and utilities.
My question is not so much the reimbursement (we used our credit cards for most of the stuff)
But am I supposed to contact her Elder Lawyer or just keep all of the receipts and a copy of a check from her with a memo??
I also think her lawyer needs to know Mom moved!
Please share your stories.
Also I plan to sell her furniture to put into her trust. We moved some of it into her new room here.
My sibling showed some interest in storing some of her furniture, but, I feel strongly that I should sell it. He talks alot, and is not reliable to actually come to vist much less pick up some furniture. I do not want the hassle.
Any advice or stories are helpful!
Oh and I had some of her stuff appraised, she seemed to think it was valuable. It is not real valuable, but maybe she can make a couple grand from 2 chairs 1 couch 1 coffee table 1 end table and 2 lamps...
I just worry one day she will wake up, but I pretty much know that wont happen...
Last edited by Lookingout4Mom; 01-29-2009 at 11:15 PM.
You need to get a lawyer involved in everything. We are now suffering the horror of dealing with hospice and NH's regarding Mom because they all say no insurance pays for room and board and they want my sister and I financially liable for that cost. Around here the rate seems to be between $240 and $290 per day, we don't have that kind of money.
They feel that because we created a trust 7 years ago, it was because we wanted to 'hide' her money and stuff. There is a 5-year look back period. Unfortuantely they are wrong. There's no extra money. What small amount is left will be gone within 2 months.
They do require you to pre-plan and pre-pay funerals before you put them in a NH, around here that's about $9,700.
They keep saying they won't take the money they just want to see the account information, Our lawyer said that as of July, 2007, that account basically became my sisters and I and we could've used it for anything we wanted but we used it to supplement the short-fall of everyday living with her social security and what money I was able to contribute. it was the reason why what money she did have lasted as long as it did.
Now that the NH is taking the social security, my sister who hasn't worked in 8 years needs what money is left -- after paying the funeral expenses, to pay a home-equity loan my mother took out years ago and all the utililities, etc. to run a house.
In NJ, you need to look towards medicaid, the only problem is you don't fill out any paperwork until you need it. Sister went down and wanted to do it right then and there and they said, she can't be dealt with until March. Sister lost it in the office and broke down. now they gave us an appt. February 4th. In the meantime, everyone wants room and board for 3 months upfront?
You do need a lawyer but also he may tell you that you need to make sure its protected in such a way which may mean you don't put all the money into that account. We did everything right and now my aunt is saying, its unfortunate that we were so truthful and loyal to mom because no good deed goes unpunished and the way people have been speaking to us over the last few days, the fact that no doctor returned out calls, they signed my mother out of the hospital days ago saying there was nothing mroe that could be done, and happily informed us that it meant the medicare coverage also stopped. (I can see their smiles through the phone).
Protect yourself and your mother. Keep the lawyer involved in everything just in case, in a few years when it gets bad (and I hope its not very soon) you may find that you need to put her some where.
caring sister, listen to me good. hospice can not talk to you this way. I dont know about NH though. but a hospice facility can not turn you away. and no insurance want pay room and board. glad i didnt live in NJ. you say $290 a day. walts was $120 a day. something just isnt right here. also, I chose not to have a funeral. my girls aggreed with this. put money to the side when I sold some antiques to be cremated. $2,100. then one monring I woke up and thought I was going to check on donating Walts body to science. not because of money . but to help otheres with this horrible disease. called cancer. so much to this story. then I found out later I dont have to pay for cremation either. I believe when you die. its just a shell left. your soul is gone. so all of this made sense. I requested no flowers. and my true friends are here for me . instead I got money instead of floweres to help me out . i feel for you and your sister. but things needs to really be thought out . before you spend your last cent . life keeps going after someone dies. we all know that. Diane , you take care of your health. and dont put it on the back burner. love faye
Disney... I can tell you for fact that room rates here in NC are a LOT cheaper than they are up north. I have a friend in Boston that was looking for a care facility for his Mom the same time I was looking for Mom and Dad. We ended up at the same facility. The rates he was quoted were about twice as much as what they are here in NC.
They can talked to you that way but in your situation Diane... they are barking up a dead tree. The trust is secure and 2 years past the look back period so there is nothing they can do. You are not required to bring your Mom back into your house. You can refuse. You do not have to guarantee payment. You might not get your choice of facility but they will have to figure out where to put her. They can't just take her to the end of the street and put her out.
Looking, I would definitely keep recoreds and would ask your elder lawyer for his guidance. I have the bills for Mom and Dad's (insurance, house expenses, etc) drafted from their checking account. The only checks I write are for the lawn service and the Assisted Living Facility. My problem is going to be with Sister 4. She has access to Mom's ATM card and a check book since she is in the same town Mom is in and I am not. She is constantly "shopping" for Mom or reimbursing herself for "Stuff" and I have no receipts and no clue what she bought. She has also got the medicine and medical bills coming to her. Now she's not even talking to me. And I am supposed to keep that all straight ARGGG So what I did was give her a different series of check numbers. It is very obvious which spending is hers and which is mine. I have my receipts and will just let her justify her spending.
Your Mom will not be going back home so if you can sell the extras at a reasonable profit then do so. I hate that we are "hanging on" to Mom and Dad's house, very much as it was when they moved out, after 16 months. I wish it was done. I wish I had sold it before the bottom fell out of the real estate market but even today I have sisters that don't want to do anything. What would Mom say? So much hindsight!
My best advice is to check with your lawyer concerning what you need to do. Keep records of all monies coming and going. That is for your benefit. It's called covering your butt!!!!
You also need to check with the lawyer on provisions for reimbursement to you and your hubby for Mom being there. I know it is appropriate just don't know the mechanism to make it work.
I hope things go well with your Mom and she settles in quickly.
Thanks for the advice. I wrote a letter to Mom's Attorney and I am posting it here. This is new to me and I need all the help I can get!
Dear (Attorney name):
I felt an urgency to move my Mother, name, to our home for the time being.
She had suffered from a Urinary Tract Infection that has caused her mental health to decline. Mother is still ambulatory and loves to still go out for dining and to shop and she is content.
We have moved her most cherished belongings from her old home, and my spouse has added numerous safety features to our home such as grab bars in the shower and a latch so she cannot open the exterior doors.
We do not leave her alone and she still goes on outings with the same Licensed Companion she has been with since 3/2008.
Her Trust is being established. The 2 deeds have been recorded.
She has some heirloom furniture and I did have it appraised and it is not antique.
My sibling has asked if I want him to store it for Mother, as he thinks it is very valuable.
I believe it should be sold and put in her trust, please advise if it is not what I am to do.
The appraiser’s name and telephone number are available to you:
Appraiser
(000) 000-0000
He appraised the furniture at $1950.00.
I will be keeping all receipts and records. Mother will contribute to 1/3 of groceries but only what she is going to want to eat, as well as a portion of the utilities.
To clarify groceries; if spouse buys oranges, she will not have to reimburse us for 1/3 of the cost of oranges because she does not like to eat oranges.
I will track the past utility/water bills and future bills and the difference is what she will be paying.
Her town home will be going up for sale soon. She know this and agrees to sell.
Her memory is very short term that since she moved in with us, she has forgotten about her Town home and her furniture.
Please do not hesitate to call or write.
Do we need to do anything to her Trust regarding her change of residence?
I sounds good to me. You might want to include if there should be provisions to reimburse yourself for care or housing. I do know some have taken compensation for caring for their loved one or "rent" for staying in the house with them. That is entirely up to you but a possibility.
I sounds good to me. You might want to include if there should be provisions to reimburse yourself for care or housing. I do know some have taken compensation for caring for their loved one or "rent" for staying in the house with them. That is entirely up to you but a possibility.
Let us know what you find out.
Love, deb
Thanks Deb,
The fact that my Mom is sick and dying slowly makes me want to not take money from her at all. This is how I feel now. Maybe my feelings will change.
My Mom is bringing her company to us for now plus:
newer towels, nice body wash (my mom buys 10X of everything, forgets about it, then buys more- not now, but she brought a lot of usable things here)
a close to brand new car we get to drive when she is in it and she buys the gas (it has 4000.00 miles on it)
We will unpack and use some of her kitchen things like a blender for later stages for feeding her, a gazillion pots and pans and ziplock bags trash bags staples etc...
She also moved an entire office supply store including a gazillion post its file folders etc...computer, desk I plan to use it all to keep track of everything.
Her income right now is 4400 but will be reduced to around 2200. I want most of it to pay for her in home care.
I never want to put her away somewhere, ever. I know I may have to but my goal is to keep her here with us.
Last edited by Lookingout4Mom; 01-30-2009 at 10:13 PM.
Bless, bless, bless your heart "looking".....your honesty in trying to keep track of all you are doing is very admirable! There may come a time however, where you may realize the enormous responsibility/challenge/reality of keeping your Mom at home will be overwelming. Each of us start this journey with noble thoughts...and have had to realize there is NO guilt or remorse if placement has to be made.
I'm not sure there will be anyone keeping track of all those "incidentals" you're talking about...but I know when we broke up Mom's household...we used cleaning products right there and just decided whoever needed towels, blankets, etc. should go ahead and take them. We took several loads of this type of stuff to homeless sites. The furniture and bigger things were divided at a later date.
With my inlaws...they were both placed about 4 years ago...MIL passed Christmas of 2007...FIL passed Christmas of 2008................their house remains F-U-L-L of all possessions! Their 3 sons have made little attempt at emptying the home....ARGH!! I have packed up all clothes and given them away...but there is just so much being ignored.
You're smart to write that letter...it's important that you document what you are doing. There's just so many decisions to make......(sigh) p
When I moved to NY to take care of Mom, I found a job and contributed to the household 50/50. Later, as I beacame her Dementia Caregiver, I continued to do that. As it turned out, her savings went to pay for the 3 months of NH care (in NY, at $11,000 per month) before Medicaid took over, and for her funeral. I was finacnailly strapped; when I retired, I barely made ends meet.
I didn't think it would have been terribly wrong to pay myself something out of Mom's money.
As it turned out, Mom had a joint account with my brother. This account existed for 30 years, since my Dad passed away. That money now belonged 50/50 to both Mom and him, but he always considered it her money.
After half of it went to the NH and all other assetts she had went to the NH, and Mom passed away, my brother, with the agreement of our sister, gave ME all that was left in that account. It was as much as I would have been entitled to pay myself if I had done so for the last year or two when she needed all night care.
So you see, it all came out right in the end, and now I am no longer struggling quite so much to make ends meet ...
Dear Martha,
I'm sure you already know this but your brother is a gem. I know most people hope that their brothers and sisters will "do the right thing" but when it comes to money.............it doesn't always happen. You had mention your brother before in another posting and I thought at the time how wonderful and fair your brother was to you. Just wanted to tell you how glad I am for you. You deserve it Lady. You were a good daughter to your sweet Mom.
Martha, I know you know how lucky you are to have such a wonderful brother Martha but I must tell you he is a gem. What a wonderful thing for him to do for you.
Pam, I know your delima. Mom and Dad's house is the same. Just sitting. The food and clothes were taken out but the rest remains. When I mention it I am told, this is not the right time.
Looking, I feel much the same as you and don't take compensation for what I do for Mom and Dad but wanted to make you and others aware that it is appropriate. I remember the day when I was as determined as you to keep Mom and Dad at home. As the situation changes you have to rethink your decision and as others have said, no regert or guilt when the time comes. Just take it one day at a time.
We too had to empty out the house..oh my gosh, what a task...after about three months, my husband, my second son and I started just walking in cirlcles...after so long, looking at the same stuff was dizzy-ing. So, in rides my oldest son from out of town. Within one day he cleaned out the house completely and had everything moved to the garage and then he involved us...he made piles...goodwill, garbage, storage. Well, within one weekend of his work we were done. It took a new set of eyes to finish the job. What a load off of our backs.
And I too know the value of good brothers...yes, Martha, you got one of those good ones! As did I.
In a perfect world my mom would be here with me but I know it isn't best for her or us. That may sound selfish but, if I am anything, it is realistic. She lives not where she wants but where it is best for her. It's hard but I accept it.
We can only do what we can only do. We try daily to keep her happy in the moment.
And yes, my mom is quite the shopper too. Her repeat buys are eyebrow pencils (which she applies below her eyebrows) and purses. A girl jsut can't get enough purses ya know.
One time I told her that because she buys so many eyebrow pencils that when she dies I will have to have a dump truck backed up to her apartment to get them all out.
The eyebrow pencil story made me chuckle Meg. Mom's latest is air fesheners. Under the sink is filled with air fresheners. If they were all opened at once.... WOW!!!
You attitude about where you mom is definitely mirrors mine. It is not what I want but what is needed for my parents. Each day I realize that more and more. Dad's wandering, hallucinating, and aggitation is so much worse now. Mom's ability to deal with him is almost gone. I cannot imagine them still being at home. What a disaster that would be. So we didn't make the move too soon. Last night Dad wandered most of the night and had a bad morning as well. I truly wonder how long this will go on before my sister gives up and lets them move him to the locked unit. Since she is there, I have told her, that when she makes the decision I will back her 100%. She is resistent to move him but she is the one that answers the call.
Deb,
I'm so sorry your dad has advanced to this point. And I think how hard it will be for your mother for him to moved away from her even though it will give her some piece but the thought of splitting them up is sad indeed.
deb,
I have a question for you. Just something I've been wondering about since your Dad has gotten worse. How much different is the "locked down unit" from where your parents are now? I don't have any experience with these changing places.
I keep thinking about how hard this might be on both of your parents. I truly can't imagine seperating them after all of these years. Its terrible for your Mom now but how do you think she will be without him? I was just wondering. I'm not judging deb, just curious about the difference in places.
First of all -- I'm late in reading the string of messages and some of you are just too fast on the draw so some things may be out of concept of the last thread but it there in the other pages.
Deb,
I'm sorry that your dad is worse. The night wonderings aren't good if your mother gets disruptive sleep, has Sister #4 thought of that? Lack of sleep will then tax your mother's health as well.
Martha -- your brother is a gem. Unfortunately they want us to pay the up-front cost of mom's care in the NH but thankfully she had secondary insurance we continued after Dad's death from his company 'Bristol Myers" What a godsend as they'll pay 180 days so hopefully that would fulfill the gap before Medicaid kicks in. There's no money for them nor our ability to pay so it is what it is.
I went to see Mom on Friday and found this small, frail, body in this bed -- and they don't use side rails???? -- she was supported by pillow bolsters. anyway there was she laying there. I think she does understand what's being said but she can't keep her eyes open. Its a shame to let someone pass the way this is going.
-----------------------
Unfortunately while I am a widow and limited income and trying to hold things together for my kids who are paying their college tuitions on their own, I don't feel right asking for their help right now. I'm trying to get son finished so I can hand him the auto and life insurance and cell phone bill and maybe get a little to help me with minor bills.
Caring....you and your family have been on my mind....glad to see you post. It's such a challenge seeing our loved ones in this last stage isn't it? Sounds like you're getting things lined up for what's ahead......
Chris....the Alzheimer's Facility my Mom has been in for the last 10 years is really 7 seperate buildings. She started in the first one that corresponded to the stage she was in when placed. She has progressed (regressed ) to the "last" building now.
Each of the buildings are "locked"...meaning there is simply a 4 digit code that has to be programmed in before entering or leaving. In the first building, Mom often went out to walk with other residents there...staying on the sidewalks within the area, and usually (but not always) accompanied by caretakers. As the disease progressed, she was moved twice until being put into the "final" residence.
(I remember when my siblings and I first visited this particular facility...it was just so difficult seeing the people in this last building...I had a hard time realizing exactly how our Mother would be in this end stage...)
The term "locked" is appropriate, but honestly is the safest way to be for our loved ones. Never has there been anything threatening associated with it. Our minds conjure up awful scenerios with that word....
My FIL was in a Medical Facility for 4 years with Alzheimer's before he passed. He had an anklet that sounded alarms if he tried to leave. It was an entirely different environment than where Mom was.
Both of my inlaws were in different places; placed at the same time, and seperated for the 4 remaining years of their lives. We often took MIL to visit FIL...but after a while, they believed the place they were was always their home...and did not miss each other. They were both 92 when they died...had been married over 65 years............Pam
Last edited by petal*pusher; 02-01-2009 at 03:45 PM.
Thank you for your post pam!! I needed to hear what you had to say since I am there.
Chris, as Pam said it is just what it says... a locked unit. The facility they are in is designed for ALZ patients. The building itself it secure with all doors controlled by keypads. The front door is open 12 hours a day with a staff member there at all times. They watch that door like hawks. Residents that are a flight risk are fitted with alarm bracelets as a second layer of security. They can go into the enclosed court yard but if they get near any other door or the stair wells, the alarm goes off in that area, and also rings the phone of the lead caregiver and on duty med tech. Those in the general population have the run of the building. When they are no longer able to handle that freedom they are moved to a smaller area with smaller rooms, a common area, and a highter staff to patient ratio. When they progress past the wander agitation phase and enter the last stages they are moved back to their original rooms. With the help of hospice they can stay there until the end unless we opt for medical intervention that requires skilled nursing care and I don't see us doing that.
I do know separating Mom and Dad will not be easy after 58 years of being together. Mom brought the subject up when I talked to her today. I was a little surprised that she was neither for or against it this time. Before she has been strongly against it. But I think Dad's new behavior is wearing her down along with the fact that I have noticed a decline in her as well since Christmas.
This morning she tried to explain to Dad that he had wandered last night. he decided that she was accusing him of cheating on her. He became furious. He wanted to know who had told her that. Mom not understanding why he was upset told him Sister 4. He ask Mom to call Sister 4 and she did. Then Dad took the phone and proceeded to chew Sister 4 a new one. Then he got angry with Mom for thinking he would do "that". She had no idea what "that" was so she blew up at him that she didn't do anything. Needless to say, Sister 3 spent the afternoon with them and Sister 4 is not going to show up until tomorrow. Last I heard Mom and Dad were both sleeping in their chairs after all the energy exerted in anger.
All of us are telling Mom the same things. It is the doctor that determines what medical care Dad needs. That way the sisters do not have to take the head for the move. When she talks about Dad's behavior we all repeat that he is hallucinating just like Nannie did. His brain is sick and he doesn't know what he is doing. Yet, we are validating how difficult it is to deal with which seems to make her feel better about it. We have also reminded her that when his heart was sick she took him to the hospital and let the professionals take care of it. His brain is sick and we need to do the same. Isn't she glad the hospital is just downstairs now. I know there will be buckets of tears and 1000's of repeats of the same information before she adjust but we just have to take it one day at a time.
Dad is wearing Mom down. She is incapable of caring for him adequately. He truly needs more than she can give him. My fear is that one day he will become violent enough to hurt her. He is 6'3 190 lbs and still strong. She is just 5'1 120 lbs. He could truly hurt her unintentionally in one of his rages.
My understanding is they are going to make the move gradual. Taking him down when he needs it for a while and letting him go back to the room when he is calmer. I needed he eventually be there full time. They are still hopeful that the new meds, which take several weeks to show their full effects, will make a difference.
I am taking it one day at a time. Sister 4 is not talking to me after out last round and has not talked to Sister 2 in a while. She has even stopped sending e-mail information about my parents. I am getting my information from Sister 3 and keeping Sister 2 informed. I am letting Sister 4 stew in her own juices for a while. This will get to be too much for her especially with Sister 3 working 12 hours a day for 3 days. That means she is only helpful on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Sister 4 needs Sister 2 and I... and she will figure that out.
As of now, I am planning my next trip, as soon as I am called
Thank you deb and Pam for your explanations. I am so sorry deb that your Dad is worse. It sounds so awful for all of you. I truly don't know what to say except I'm so sorry. Dealing with Mom is hard but two of them has to be totally exhausting, mentally. When Grandpa wandered around all night Gram was so tired. This was about 20 years ago and Grandpa was not on any meds at all. Not one. Back then there was nothing any Dr. offered except to "lock him up somewhere". Grandmas words. She gave him a sleeping pill once and he was so much worse the next day he couldn't hold his head up. She never gave him another one. Maybe your Dads meds will kick in and he'll stop his rants. At least some meds are on the market now that could help your Dad. One small improvement from years ago.
Of course Grandpa was a very passive person. Always sweet and just did what Gram told him to. They never argued. We didn't have to worry about him hurting her. I understand. You must keep your Mom safe. Its just all so sad. But "it is what it is". Can't change things. Its out of your hands. I think about them and you so often. Gram had a few years after Grandpa passed away to enjoy life. Then she also got Alz. Now she was a pistol. LOL You could never describe her as passive.
I suppose sister #4 will never change. Too bad there isn't a magic pill for her!! You have a plan in place of course. I pray that all of these changes go easy for you all. I'm thinking of you............
You were a good daughter to your sweet Mom.
Sounds like you're getting things lined up for what's ahead......
