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Old 02-29-2012, 10:54 AM   #16
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

Is it possible for your sibblings to each take some time and visit dad.I mean right now. perhaps if each comes for a week visit, one after another they will get the idea and your dad will have someone with him for the next little while, this may get them all onboard with you when they spend the time with dad. For now I do beleive dad needs someone with him.. can uncle come and stay for a day or two until the cathater is out... sibblings who do not want to or simple find it easier to let you do the ground work do like to be vocal but as deb says, it is easier just to say you will make sure dad will be looked after or that it will get done and so on than to argue with them, it is a waste of your energy and time, If you are going to be the primary cargiver for dad set the tone now or you will be doing this second guessing from the sibblings for a long time. this is about your dad not your sibblings...I more than once had to tell that exact sentement to my sibblings. that this was about mom and what she needed, not them...

sending you strength
hugs judy.

 
Old 02-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #17
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

Deb, that must have been so frightening! Thankfully, they went back and were able to find out what had happened to your dad. It's a wonder you didn't have a heart attack.
Judy, I just left a note on my dad's care page with your suggestion. I think it's brilliant! The excuses they will give are already rolling around in my head but that's okay. If they surprise me and say "okay, I'll go this week" and so on, great. If not, I will put my plans in place to go get him and bring him here.
His catheter overflowed last night. Good news is he slept for 7 hours straight. Very rare for him. But he had a mess to clean up. I will be so glad when they get that out tomorrow.
Dad said he had 4 eggs, 6 pieces of bacon, and 2 pieces of toast for breakfast today so he can get "fatter". He makes me smile. He was losing a lot of weight there for a while and has been able to regain the weight. He says his food doesn't taste good (this happens every once in a while). I'm wondering if maybe it's one of the new meds he got the other day. One is cipro and the other is avodart.
It took me 20 minutes today to get him to understand I wanted him to give my phone number to his doctor. I doubt he will remember but maybe he'll surprise me. I've left a message for the doctor to call me and the nurse did as well. This doctor diagnosed him and I want to make sure he gets a full view of Dad. I figure Dad usually waltzes in, seems great, answers the questions to the doctor's satisfaction, and back home he goes.
I am doing a lot better about not getting really worked up over my siblings. It does still bother me for a day or so but I'm realizing that no matter what they say or think, I have things as under control as I can.
Nina, we are in the process of getting someone in there with Dad until I move him. It will be a hard battle to fight but I'll just tell him either they come in or I come get him now rather than later. We shall see.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #18
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

Keysey, this reminds me that my FIL had this same day op for hernia in 2007. My FIL always made sure my husband was nearby for his op. I made sure we were there for the microwave treatment as well (2010).
Back then in 2007, my FIL had this office couch (he loves the cheap couches) and he sacked into it. After the first hernia op, he came home and sat on that bad couch. He could not go to bed as he hurt so he would sit on the couch or lie down. Ironically he never remembered he had the fresh scar! So every time he sat down, he went ouch!
We had caregivers but the hernia op failed because of this chair (the position hurt his scar.) So there was a second hernia op in 3 months. We went there again. This time we got a new recliner. So he got well on that!

My FIL was better in 2007 but that was the year that he began to mix things up in his mind.
It is hard. I can feel for you. Don't blame yourself. The first time was always shocking and a learning experience! We didn't even know he didn't take a shower in late 2006! The caregiver at that time was only part-time.

Hugs,
Nina

Last edited by ninamarc; 02-29-2012 at 12:09 PM.

 
Old 02-29-2012, 12:09 PM   #19
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

Here is the latest post on Dad's care page from me after speaking to the office manager:

I just spoke to the office manager at the urologist's office. She seemed to have taken the time to look over Dad's chart prior to my call. I explained our concerns. She assured me Dad was not given any medication prior to his procedure. We talked about the catheter and I asked if patients normally remove them at home. She said some do and some don't. I explained Dad's anxiety this week about cutting the tube and she has noted Dad's chart that a) he has Alzheimer's (doctor faxed the official paperwork), b) he has severe hearing loss so sometimes just answers the way he thinks you want him to, and c) I will be notified of any future appointments. I did not threaten her with a lawsuit or malpractice as I did not feel it was warranted. She took the time to speak with me and agreed we need to avoid this in the future. She also told me that when they remove the catheter tomorrow Dad needs to be able to pee. If he cannot do that, they will likely have to replace the catheter. I will call and speak to Laura about this. Dad is super excited to get this thing out.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:12 PM   #20
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

Thank you all for your ideas and reassurances. It's easy to feel like I messed up. But I learned a very valuable lesson and have no intention of this being repeated. Now to wait for the criticism over my conversation with the office manager. I have decided to hear them out, say "sorry you don't like how I handled it but it's been handled".
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:13 PM   #21
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

Oh oh.... Well it is so frustrating...They had to test my FIL. So they took it off. It didn't work. Well they put it back again. (This was before the treatment.) Either way, he felt hurt. He slapped the nurse. Ouch she said!

Nina

Last edited by ninamarc; 02-29-2012 at 12:15 PM.

 
Old 02-29-2012, 12:17 PM   #22
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

At least she didn't cuss. I really hope that he doesn't need to have it put back in. He'll be right back in the mess he's been in all week. Time to make some more calls.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:35 PM   #23
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

no way did you mess up Keysey You did all that you could in the moment to give your Dad the best care possible. This entire process is just so difficult that no one person can deal with all of it... and especially long distance I call each episode like this a learning experience!! That is what it is. It's on the job training and we learn what not to do next time. If we learn something then it was a positive experience.

Yes, over time we get immune to the drama created by others. We figure out their motives and emotional baggage. Then we can let them be who they are with the knowledge that their reactions actually are NOT a reflection of anything that you do. I think that is the hardest thing to do. When they criticize or demand we feel that we have done something wrong. We know that is not so but why would they criticize and demand something different if we did what we could? In reality, it is their way of putting balm on their own emotional baggage rather than anything you have done.

Glad you got a good response from the Urologist! Most are cooperative if they understand the difficulties. Hope you get an honest assessment from his primary doctor and know where to go from here.

Love, deb

 
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:17 PM   #24
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

sweety it has been a learning curve for you for sure, don't every be sorry it just undermines your confidence, you are doing everything that you can and ... you are doing great..

hugs judy..

 
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:42 PM   #25
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

I have a question. I'm considering filing a complaint with the Oklahoma State Board regarding the issues surrounding my dad's procedure on Monday. I am not out for vengeance. I merely want someone to make sure nothing like that happens to anyone else. So many different versions of that day have been told to me. Which happened? Which did not? Are they covering themselves? I really don't know what to do. I'm so torn. I see my side and theirs. Help?
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:22 PM   #26
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

If you are sure something was fishy with the office and etc., then you need to report them. They may not lose jobs but the board can warn them.
I am not there so I cannot really make the decision or say yes they did wrong...
It depends on whether you did tell them to tell the POA or siblings also about the whole thing. Did they know the family need to know along with dad's confusion and naive permission? Did they know that the POA was there and yet they considered Dad so intelligent that they trust his judgment?
I don't know. This part is crucial. What was their initial motive. What did they think about Dad. Were they aware that if they do know Dad cannot make decision or that he has AD and severe hearing loss, they have the family to go to? Do they not have your phone number or your siblings' phone numbers?

I would say if they do have the info. of the family and know dad's conditions, then they need to be more alert and they need to let the family know. I know that however sometimes the medical professionals don't tell the family due to some distance issue or convenience or urgency. e.g., my FIL's nurses in the hospital sometimes would go ahead made decisions with the doctors and my husband would find out later (scan or x-ray and etc.) If it is reasonable then it is fine. As long as they don't cross the line and decide for the family esp. when it comes to surgery or main procedures.

However, if like you mentioned, Dad didn't give your phone number to the doctor, if the doctor's has only Dad's side and info., only Dad's permission and trusted his judgement, then the doctor was not doing it wrong because he thinks he told Dad and Dad agreed to it and etc. The doctor may also think he is doing the best for Dad given that the family were not there.

Unfortunately the result was that Dad was not sure what was going on and you guys had no idea about this. I would say it is a little bit of both.
Deb said it is not the doctor, but I would say why not walk another step and feel for the family? If the office understands Dad has some issues, they should be concerned that the family should know. It is about the conscience and heart. If Dad were their family, what would they do?

It is up to you, and if there is really something fishy, you should report it. The board will just warn them, I think.

Thanks for your comment on me and Deb in the other thread. I just want to share my experience with others so we can learn from one another.

Good luck,
Nina

Last edited by ninamarc; 02-29-2012 at 06:40 PM.

 
Old 02-29-2012, 06:41 PM   #27
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

I called the office before he went in the first time and told them Dad has dementia. I gave them my name, phone number, and address. I faxed in my POA and asked that they note me as a contact. My uncle made sure to let them know that he has dementia and made certain that my dad filled out a medical release form with my name on it. He has been there at least 5 times and I have had no other issues with them. Talking to the office manager today I realized I messed up yesterday. The office manager was unavailable yesterday and when the woman who answered the phone asked what the problem was so maybe someone else could help, I told her the issue. Did I give everyone time to come up with the answer that would make me go away? My biggest question is this: did they knowingly perform a procedure on a dementia patient? Maybe the nurse was unaware. I've been assured he was not given demeral (sp?). My husband raised this question: if your dad was known to be driving himself home, how did they go on with the procedure without him being in pain? I don't have a penis so I don't know how it would feel to have a probe put up it or a catheter inserted. I am not mad. I am concerned that there is some CYA going on at the office. Too many different versions came out over the course of three days. I don't want anyone fired. My main concern is that my dad was treated the way he should have been and that they don't put another family through this, willingly or unknowingly. And I can see the two sides, thanks to you all. *sigh*
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:49 PM   #28
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

The part about driving, it is kind of odd. A lot of times the office said you cannot drive. Colonoscopy or others... I don't really understand the urology office's culture, but I would think they should tell the POA since you got the papers there. More likely the doctor was not aware of the POA. You see, the office may have the POA stuff, but the doctor has no idea in his file. His file has only Dad's stuff.
Have you asked the doctor? Did he say he was not aware of it?
The other thing is, it is not enough that the office knows. The doctor needs to be told personally so you know for sure he understands.

Also, I believe you can still complain to the board and let them decide if this case makes sense to them. They should know better about what is wrong and what is OK.

Nina

Last edited by ninamarc; 02-29-2012 at 06:52 PM.

 
Old 02-29-2012, 06:59 PM   #29
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia... oh my!

I will call and speak to the doctor tomorrow. I have not spoken to him. I'm just very concerned about all of the versions and think someone with some oversight should look into this. Maybe it will save another family. Thanks, Nina.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:00 PM   #30
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Re: Catheters, Oxy, and Dementia...oh my!

By the way, the way they did the treatment is that there were 2 people/workers there to work on this machine to make sure the microwave heat was applied. The urologist was not there all the time. He would be nearby until it is almost finished or when it started.

My husband was there holding his Dad's hand. The thing is first of all, they inserted the stuff like a catheter in there - this part hurts although they use the gel to freeze it.
The heat that went in was not fun either - it put the heat down inside there and etc...

One thing I am wondering about your dad. Dad said it is OK. I doubt it. How can he feel no pain, nothing? He must have but he forgot to tell you or he felt shameful and didn't want to tell you. He must have felt something - pain or fear and heat...

Nina

 
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