It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Alzheimer's Disease & Dementia Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2012, 05:30 PM   #1
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Linda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB User
The bank froze mom's account

I went there and asked a woman who I have dealt with personally over the years how I could keep my sister from taking mom to the bank and taking out large sums of money. I just got the checkbook back and found large amounts written to herself (signed by mom). I am POA. They told me to get a letter from her Doctor about the dementia, which they faxed somewhere and then froze her account. I feel so stupid after reading more about this online!! I was duped!! Now, I cannot pay her bills. They said they would, but you can imagine what they will charge for that. They said my durable POA was meaningless when her Dr. said mom wasn't capable of handling her finances!! A copy of the letter, the POA and her trust have been sent to legal at the bank. I wish they would go through her checkbook to see who wrote checks and to whom. I never did anything illegal!! They would see my sister wrote checks to herself, with mom's signature. Now what??

 
Old 05-17-2012, 05:49 PM   #2
Facilitator
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,130
Titchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

You need a family law attorney. What the bank did - if not just a temporary measure to verify the paperwork - was wrong. You have a POA for when she can't handle her finances - that's what it's for. I never had the bank do anything like this with my mother's account. Are you in the states??? Canada may be different...

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 05-17-2012, 07:31 PM   #3
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: charlotte, nc, usa
Posts: 7,156
Gabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

I agree with the need for a lawyer. Possibly the lawyer that drew up the POA for your Mom. We ran into a similar situation with an insurance company and one call from Mom's lawyer to their legal department fixed the problem. Who did you talk to at the bank? If it was just a customer services representative then call the bank back and ask for the manager of the legal department. Get their name and number and talk to them. You did what you needed to do in order to stop your sister from spending Mom's money and hopefully the bank will clear this quickly so you can have control of the money via your POA. But to tell you that your POA is useless is wrong. The POA is for just such a situation as then when Mom is incapable of dealing with her own affairs. I think you just ran into a very uninformed customer service rep. So get Mom's lawyer involved.

Love, deb

 
Old 05-18-2012, 03:30 AM   #4
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 446
Beginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB UserBeginning HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Linda:

I don't recall prior posts, so I don't have the full story. This may not apply to your Mom's or family situation at all, but I wll echo Deb and others who tell you to get a lawyer for an additional reason. When you straighten out the bank, use your POA to get copies of statements and a record of the checks that were written against your Moms account after she was incompetent to write checks. Those checks need to be examined closely.

The lawyer may direct you ask your sister for a return of monies improperly distributed in writing (the lawyer can do this for you). The lawyer may tell you to go to the police to file a report if your sister doesn't return the funds. "Gifts" or distributions of assets in excess of $500 for anything other than your Mom's own care and expenses can impact her ability to qualify for Medicaid if she needs nursing home care. Being able to show that a police report was filed may be important.

Last edited by Beginning; 05-18-2012 at 03:32 AM.

 
Old 05-18-2012, 05:10 AM   #5
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 269
Luau HB UserLuau HB UserLuau HB UserLuau HB UserLuau HB UserLuau HB UserLuau HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Dear Linda,

I second Beginning, Deb, and others. When my step-dad was passing, which was a while ago, his long-estranged son and family reappeared. I mean, this son had no relationship with his father for more than a decade and a half, and my step-dad wasn't even notified much less invited to his grand-daughters (yeah... plural grand daughters) weddings. So these people started showing up at his bedside a couple of weeks before the end. Then the next thing you know, he was trying to get his father to change his will and then trying to convince the bank to release his money.... all this before the poor guy actually died. My mom was able to intervene only fast enough to recover some of the money. That son was actually intent on bleeding his old man's account dry, and leaving all hospital, nursing home, and burial bills to my mother. Fortunately, mom recovered enough money to pay off all the bills.

So the moral to the long story: get a good attorney working for you.

 
Old 05-18-2012, 07:48 AM   #6
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Linda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
You need a family law attorney. What the bank did - if not just a temporary measure to verify the paperwork - was wrong. You have a POA for when she can't handle her finances - that's what it's for. I never had the bank do anything like this with my mother's account. Are you in the states??? Canada may be different...
I think because they saw her trust, they are verifying it. Now that I have had time to digest this, I might not mind taking her bills to the bank for them to pay. The other option they said was taking mom off, and putting my sister on. The girl at the bank said she requested I remain as POA, but I have a feeling if we are both on the account, there won't be a POA. My sister was the one to cause the issue in the first place by abusing the funds(when she had the checkbook) and also threatening me. When she brought mom's checkbook to me, she also brought her medical cards. I thought that was weird. Then, she wrote me an email saying she was going to report me for TAKING them!! Her husband (who is sane) is aware of that episode!! I am in Michigan--this is one of the leading banks. My husband believes I did the right thing, as she backed me into a corner by threatening me. She does have mental issues and on medication, which doesn't seem to be working with the stress of caring for mom. The only good thing is that her husband is working with me!!

 
Old 05-18-2012, 08:28 AM   #7
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
ninamarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada/USA
Posts: 1,703
ninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB Userninamarc HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

My experience with the bank in IL was not good either. Something about they have no idea how to handle state POA for properties. They kept saying it does not work and etc. Only joined names work. However, the investment co. finally said they can use the state POA even though my husband is the trustee as well.
To me, banks are not flexible. The only way to do it is to have joined names so you can write the checks. Take off your sister's name is one way to do it.
Given POA, it is supposed to work legally but the banks are stupid to know what to do claiming they have too many kinds of paperwork.... IRA is Ok but checking account is tricky? Even CD is tricky - POA is not working anymore???
These guys need to know more about state laws!

Hugs,
Nina

 
Old 05-18-2012, 08:38 AM   #8
Facilitator
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 15,130
Titchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB UserTitchou HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Oh, so there is a trust account? That can make a difference depending on how it was set up. But I would still contact an attorney to make sure the bank is followig correct procedures. Sometimes they don't. Perhaps the attorney who drew up the trust?

Last edited by Titchou; 05-18-2012 at 08:39 AM.

 
Old 05-18-2012, 08:39 AM   #9
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Linda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninamarc View Post
My experience with the bank in IL was not good either. Something about they have no idea how to handle state POA for properties. They kept saying it does not work and etc. Only joined names work. However, the investment co. finally said they can use the state POA even though my husband is the trustee as well.
To me, banks are not flexible. The only way to do it is to have joined names so you can write the checks. Take off your sister's name is one way to do it.
Given POA, it is supposed to work legally but the banks are stupid to know what to do claiming they have too many kinds of paperwork.... IRA is Ok but checking account is tricky? Even CD is tricky - POA is not working anymore???
These guys need to know more about state laws!

Hugs,
Nina
I knew I couldn't be the only one with this issue. I still am POA for any account other than this particular bank, thank goodness!! The POA says I can sell her house!! I am hoping the person in legal at the bank can read and understand. Otherwise, we will just have to take her bills to the bank until all those funds run out, unless she dies first!! I just found an old email unread from my sister threatening to take mom to change the POA!! Her husband just told me that was an empty threat. Like I said, thank goodness for him. If I had to deal only with my sister, it would be a disaster!

 
Old 05-18-2012, 08:42 AM   #10
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Linda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titchou View Post
Oh, so there is a trust account? That can make a difference depending on how it was set up. But I would still contact an attorney to make sure the bank is followig correct procedures. Sometimes they don't. Perhaps the attorney who drew up the trust?
Unfortunately, that person is dead!! I have a phone number of the person who took over for him. I do believe since there is a trust, that is what is causing the delay!

 
Old 05-18-2012, 09:38 AM   #11
Registered User
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bedminster, NJ
Posts: 142
Suzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Obviously now you do need to consult an eldercare attorney.

I would like to add my own experiences.

When I took over my aunt's affairs with the Durable POA she had in place from several years ago, I met with the lawyer to make sure I understood everything.

He said we were lucky she had it in place before her diagnosis because otherwise it might in fact be questioned. He said it might be something of a gray area to use the POA on behalf of a mentally incompetent person IF questions are raised.

He also told me that when I went to the banks, I should NOT volunteer the information that she has dementia or was otherwise mentally incompetent and if asked just say "her health does not permit her" to handle it herself.

He said no institution had the right to turn down my authority of the POA or to demand any additional documentation (in the absence of any other information) but that some institutions try to make it difficult and if so to just tell them they would be hearing from my attorney. He was right, some of the banks acted like I was a criminal and I had to be quite firm with them.

I ultimately closed my aunt's non-interest bearing checking accounts and combined them into ONE account which has her name on it and my name as POA (but not joint must POA). No one else even knows where this account is. I did the right thing because one of the relatives went to the other bank, on which my aunt used to write gift checks, to dig for information about her account!

Your sister could very easily be open to charges of elder abuse and if that is the case that could be used to scare her into turning the money over.

In the meantime, hire thee a good elder care attorney.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda1652 View Post
I went there and asked a woman who I have dealt with personally over the years how I could keep my sister from taking mom to the bank and taking out large sums of money. I just got the checkbook back and found large amounts written to herself (signed by mom). I am POA. They told me to get a letter from her Doctor about the dementia, which they faxed somewhere and then froze her account. I feel so stupid after reading more about this online!! I was duped!! Now, I cannot pay her bills. They said they would, but you can imagine what they will charge for that. They said my durable POA was meaningless when her Dr. said mom wasn't capable of handling her finances!! A copy of the letter, the POA and her trust have been sent to legal at the bank. I wish they would go through her checkbook to see who wrote checks and to whom. I never did anything illegal!! They would see my sister wrote checks to herself, with mom's signature. Now what??

 
Old 05-18-2012, 09:42 AM   #12
Registered User
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bedminster, NJ
Posts: 142
Suzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB UserSuzy0513 HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

As POA at least in my state, I am not supposed to permit the changing of the TITLING of any account, for example, if it is already a joint account, I am supposed to leave it that way. If it has a POD on it, I am supposed to preserve that.

I do not think you should add or remove any na,mes to this at this time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda1652 View Post
I think because they saw her trust, they are verifying it. Now that I have had time to digest this, I might not mind taking her bills to the bank for them to pay. The other option they said was taking mom off, and putting my sister on. The girl at the bank said she requested I remain as POA, but I have a feeling if we are both on the account, there won't be a POA. My sister was the one to cause the issue in the first place by abusing the funds(when she had the checkbook) and also threatening me. When she brought mom's checkbook to me, she also brought her medical cards. I thought that was weird. Then, she wrote me an email saying she was going to report me for TAKING them!! Her husband (who is sane) is aware of that episode!! I am in Michigan--this is one of the leading banks. My husband believes I did the right thing, as she backed me into a corner by threatening me. She does have mental issues and on medication, which doesn't seem to be working with the stress of caring for mom. The only good thing is that her husband is working with me!!

 
Old 05-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #13
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington DC area
Posts: 79
KrenM HB UserKrenM HB UserKrenM HB UserKrenM HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda1652 View Post
....The POA says I can sell her house!!....
One more thing to ask your attorney:

Here, before you can handle a real estate transaction, you need to register your POA with the local Clerk of the Circuit Court (wherever the house is located). It's not a huge deal, but if it is a requirement in your area, go ahead and file the paperwork in advance so it won't delay settlement later.

Hope that helps,

Kren

 
Old 05-18-2012, 12:07 PM   #14
Inactive
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Linda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB UserLinda1652 HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

It has been settled. Since the accounts were in a trust, my sister will now be able to draw money, once they become unfrozen. She will sign on Monday. Her husband seems so calm---we talked about bill paying and how she will be accountable for everything she spends! He agreed that I should pay the bills and take care of the scripts, since my sister isn't good at that.

At least she can't take mom and write me out of the will, or make herself POA!! Mom won't be able to write checks anymore. With her dementia, she probably won't understand that part anyway.

Thanks for everyone's support!

 
Old 05-18-2012, 01:00 PM   #15
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: charlotte, nc, usa
Posts: 7,156
Gabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB UserGabriel HB User
Re: The bank froze mom's account

Glad it is settled Linda and hope it will be ok from here out.

A word about POA.... each state is different as to what they allow and it also depends on the wording in the POA. My POA (Mom's as well) specifically says that the powers vested do not cease to be effective if I am determined to be physical or physically incapacitated. Unless I revoke it... it is effective until my death no matter what condition I am in. Having been through this with Mom and Dad I made sure that was in mine as well.

I also added Terminal and Irreversible to the normal vegetative coma statement in my Health Care POA. That allows for more leeway in the case of dementia. I do not have to go into a coma/vegetative state before comfort care is started as long as what I have is terminal and irreversible.

So when you do this paper work please review it carefully and be sure what it says. It can make a huge difference.

I also agree to consolidating as many accounts into as few accounts as possible and whenever possible have a second name on those accounts. I am on Mom's account as co-owner. Dad was the third party on that account. I also have a TOD (Transfer on Death). When Dad died I notified the bank. That immediately stopped his social security and other retirement payments which was a blessing because I didn't have to do that. Then the account in total transferred directly to Mom and I with no hold or delay. That allowed me to continue paying Mom's bills while Dad's will was probated. I can take care of Mom's after she dies because the account becomes mine. Her other money is in a financial institution in her name but I have a specific POA at that institution (separate from the durable POA) which makes is so easy. I can do anything on her behalf. At death there is also a TOD on that account. At her death it is split between the four sisters without going through probate.

I can say in the last 10 years I have learned the importance of all these document and making sure they are accurate

Love, deb

 
Closed Thread




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Aricept
Aspirin
Ativan
Morphine
Namenda
  Reminyl
Risperdal Seroquel
Xanax
Zoloft




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



Gabriel (762), ninamarc (157), Martha H (124), meg1230 (93), angel_bear (68), jagsmu (55), Beginning (51), TC08 (44), ibake&pray (43), debbie g (37)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1180), MSJayhawk (1013), Apollo123 (909), Titchou (856), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (763), ladybud (755), midwest1 (670), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:21 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!