just had my first vitamin b shot, i think its 12 or a combination of them. Just know its a b-shot for anemia. i was hoping for a miracle and expecting to feel a burst of energy oh within a few hours but nothing yet. Am i expecting too much for just the first shot? is it something that needs to build up over time before it starts working?
Jen
Well right after my first B12 shot I did get this strange burst of energy and it lasted a few good hours. It took a week before the injection began to help my migraines. Right now I give myself the injection once a week for six weeks so it can build up and hopefully I'll only have one every month thereafter.
I say give it time. Some of us need the injection monthly, every two weeks, or every week. Try not to feel too discouraged.
Best wishes, and keep us posted.
Natalie
thanks natalie, i guess i had built my expectations a bit high from some of the internet material i had read. thought id feel a burst of energy. going away for a 4 days mini vacation for my birthday and wanted to have some energy instead of feeling drained all the time to the point of just laying on the sofa and simply breathing without even moving a finger.
I will see the doc week after next and will probably get on the injections weekly to see if it helps. i hate this anemia stuff. i also have fibro and that makes me tired as well but not like this. fibro pain weakens me after pain for so long, but this stuff just takes the breath out of me. thanks for the note hon and i will give it more time.
jen
Some people have trouble converting the type of B12 in the shots (it's either cyanocobalamin or hydroxocobalamin) into the usable types by the body: methylcobalamin (used in brain and nerves) and adenosylcobalamin (Dibencozide--used by cells for energy production). I know a lady on another forum who had to have the shots every 4-5 days, even though she had to fight her doctor to get them that often, that didn't need the shots anymore after starting daily sublingual Methylcobalamin (at amounts of at least 1000 mcg or more). I've read that the liver only converts about 1% of the cyano-b12 into the methyl-b12. AND, most doctors are way behind the times in thinking that shots are the only way to raise B12 levels, EVEN in Pernicious Anemia. In daily oral amounts greater than 1000 mcg, some B12 will get absorbed passively, even without IF. Studies show that oral supplementation raises levels better than shots (probably because it's a daily, constant intake).
It all depends how long you have been deficient, if you lack the intrinsic factor and how low the level was. I took the shots every week for 12 weeks, level did not go up so another 12 weeks and then every other week for 2 years before I started feeling less tingly and fatigued, my level was down to 66 and had been suffering from various symptoms for 2 years before I saw a neurologist, at first they thought I had MS as the symptoms are very similar. I've been giving myself injections every two weeks now since 1997. I can tell when my level drops, like when we went on a 3 week vacation, I didn't bother to take syringes with me and I dropped way down. So it really depends on the person level of defiency etc.
thanks for all the messages gals. im going next week to see the doc and see what she suggests. i do know that while on vacation i have to admit i didnt feel "energized" but didnt feel as fatigued as i have for the last several months. so it could have worked once it got into my system.
Jen
hi ladies, also wanted to ask, if those of you who are anemic, do you ever feel a form or electrical shocks thru your body? i know if you are witdrawing from some meds this is a symptom, but im not withdrawing from anything. Just wondered if any others have felt this shock. Theyre not painful just frustrating and more or a nuisance than anything. They feel very unsettling when youre getting them. I did notice that the electrical shocks have stopped or minimized since i had the b shot.
IT's called Lhermittes syndrom and yes I did get them, one of the first signs that actually sent me to the Dr 10yrs ago. I would get them while at work and wonder if anyone noticed cuz they weren't painful just disconcerting. Mine would be like an electrical bolt shoot from the top of my head down to the lower back, it freaked me out. I always felt when it happened that I fell but it was only a sensation of falling cuz people around me never knew I had one. After about 6 months of injections I never got them again. How low was your level? Mine was 66 when I finally saw a neurologist, took almost 2 yrs to get my level up to the low normal and I've been giving myself injections every other week since 95.
thanks nancy, ive asked around for quite awhile (not on this board, but out here) what this is and no one could ever tell me what it was or what it was called. some had never even heard of electrical shocks in the body.
I dont know how low my level was, i know when im feeling my weakest i get them worse. Im surprised that after this first shot, it seems to have calmed down some. I have had two episodes of it since the shot, but thats nothing like i was having them. Yes like you, several times in a 10 min period to the point of wanting me to jump out of my own skin and just run.
So im going to tell the doctor that it did help some and request that i take them at least once a week or once every two weeks or as she suggests. thank you sooooo very much hon, for putting a name to those shocks. i now know im not crazy lol and that its a real thing. One thing, is it due more to electrolyte imbalance or is this a prelude to MS? or just due to the anemia?
thanks alot hon
Jen
It's basically the B12level being way too low!! MS is a whole different program and no I haven't ever heard it being a prelude to MS, it just means that the b12 level being so low the nerve impulses sort of "short out" as one Dr described to me. Syndrome isn't really a good word either, it's "Lhermittes sign"because it will go away with enough B12 treatment. Electrolytes, um, don't know but sounds reasonable, everything can go out of kilter when the b12 level gets dangerously low. My grandmother died from pernicious anemia and I heard she went very painfully and insanely towards the end, glad I didn't see it, I was too young to understand, she was only 44.
Hey Nancy , hope youre well hon. Went to docs today and shes running a blood test to see if my b's are low. Im starting a once a month shot treatment and depending on the results of the blood work, if its low, i will get them once every two weeks. Also found out something today, she checked my thyroid, my blood test came back normal on it, but she felt it and said it felt enlarged so im going for a sonogram on it soon. ALL these things cant add up to anything good lol, feel like im falling apart, but im just glad im starting the b shot treatment. Im keeping a positive attitude towards it and know it will work. I dont care if its a placebo effect or if its really working lol. i just hope it makes me feel less tired.
thanks hon, and im so sorry to hear about the way your grandmother passed over hon, sounds like a very painful way to go. And 44 WOW, that is WAY to young!!
Jen
Last edited by Jenetti; 07-26-2005 at 05:18 PM.
Reason: corrected spelling
I would be most grateful if someone could answer the following questions:-
I have diagnosed Hypothyroidism, and although not diagnosed, I think I actually have Hashimoto's Hypothyroidism. I also have Vitamin B12 injections because of lack of the intrinsic factor in my stomach. The type of injection I have is Hydroxocobalamin, 1mg/ml, 1ml ampoule once every eight weeks. I was originally having that same injection once every twelve weeks, and I had a terrible 'battle' to get it more often. I have been having these injections since 1997, and have been having them once every eight weeks for more than one year now. I usually start to go downhill about four weeks before I am due my next injection, with the two weeks before being more pronounced symptoms wise. After I have had my injection it seems to take about two to three weeks before it takes affect. This time round it does not seem to have had any affect. I, therefore, do not know whether this is a Hypothyroid problem and/or a vitamin B12 problem.
Is there any way of distinguishing between the two?
What specific symptoms do you have in relation to Vitamin B12 deficiency?
Is a pressure (without pain) at the back of the head one of them? I have had this pressure (without pain) at the back of my head off and on for many years now. My head feels heavy at such times, when I also feel like I want to go to sleep, but in the past lying down has either alleviated the problem, but when I sit up again it returns, and/or I have immediately fallen asleep. This time round I fall asleep with it. Again I do not know whether this is because of hypothyroidism, vitamin B12 deficiency, hypoglycaemia, or low blood pressure.
Are there any tests to determine how often one should have Vitamin B12 injections? As if one has these injections more than is needed that in turn can cause significant side effects.
In between your B12 injections, have you tried large, daily sublingual doses of B12? New studies show that even without IF, *some* oral B12 is absorbed passively, but you have to take somewhere around 2000 or more mcg daily. It might give you just enough to make it a little easier on you during the time you start to decline between shots. Perque makes a hydroxocobalamin sublingual, or you could get methyl-b12 and dibencozide--the 2 coenzyme types of B12 that hydroxo-b12 is broken down into before use by the body. I have Jarrow methyl-b12 in 5000 mcg amounts and Source Naturals dibencozide in 10 mg.
I don't know why doctors won't give B12 more often....they certainly don't hesitate to Rx drugs out the wazzoo. You could also buy B12 from veterinary supply companies--I've heard of people who do it.
Wish I could help you on the hypothyroid stuff. Are you taking something for it?
Many thanks for your more than helpful reply to my last post, which is very much appreciated!!
No, I have not tried large, daily sublingual doses of B12, but like you, I had also read, (in my case on a website), that *some* oral B12 is absorbed passively either by taking tablets and/or eating food/foods rich in B12. But I had forgotten all about it because of my health at the moment, so I am very glad that you reminded me about it!! The article I read said that the amount of said absorption, however, depends on the individual, so in that sense the amount of absorption varies from person to person, that same article going onto say that at least five percent of *some* oral B12 is absorbed passively by *some* people.
As a side issue on this same subject, a qualified herbalist told me many years ago now, that when taking Vitamin B supplements it is important to take them all in one tablet, as he said that it is no good say taking Vitamin B6 on its own, as one needs to take all the other remaining Vitamin Bs in order for that Vitamin B6 to be absorbed into the body. I am prescribed strong vitamin B compound tablets, which I have to take once a day. There is no breakdown shown on that same bottle of tablets as regard to micrograms etc., so I do not know what the individual doses of each vitamin B are in those same tablets. I must remember to ask the chemist about that next time I pick up my medical prescription. I also already buy and take a daily multi - vitamin tablet that includes 3 ug of Vitamin B12, which is supposed to represent 300% of the recommended daily allowance.
I have been to my local chemist/pharmacy today in order to buy Vitamin B12 tablets, but they do not stock them on their shop floor shelves. I was, however, fortunate in that the shop assistant serving me asked the chemist and he in turn handed her a container containing 50 Cyanocobalamin BP 50 mcg (Vitamin B12) tablets - Brand name "Cytacon". Doseage for adults and the elderly being 1 to 3 tablets or more daily between meals, or as directed by your doctor. Therefore, I am now taking Vitamin B12 from three different sources in tablet form, so hopefully I might find some improvement during this decline period before I am due my next Vitamin B12 injection.
What you have said about hydroxocobalamin sublingual, and also about methyl-b12 and dibencozide makes sense, especially in relation to the latter, which seems more logical and which I note you are taking yourself in the doses you mentioned in your last post.
You said: "I don't know why doctors won't give B12 more often". Usually the root of many problems is in relation to money, so may be there is not always the financial funding available to consistently check and monitor an individual patient's Vitamin B12 status together with the fact, as I also mentioned in my last post, that it can be very dangerous to any patient's health if they are prescribed too many Vitamin B12 injections.
Yet, also as you correctly mentioned they often do not hesitate in prescribing many other medications. I have read a few articles in the past, which have stated that "drug pushers" do not only exist on the streets, those articles were in relation to a significant number of doctors and certain pharmaceutical companies. Also one doctor in England, where I live, told me that family doctors/or General Practitioners are only there to treat the symptons and not the causes. This would also tend to suggest why many doctors treat and prescribe drugs for individual medical symptoms instead of looking at those same medical symptoms as a whole/and/or collectively to determine the cause, such as an underlying medical disease and/or underlying medical disorder. More presriptions mean more money for the pharmaceutical companies. The other thing that a noteable amount of doctors do not allow for is the drug interaction when prescribing more than one medicinal drug to a patient; said interactions which also have their own medical side effects depending on the drugs being prescribed and taken by any one patient.
Doctors also have to follow an official protocol, where they are supposed to follow set procedures, but there are fortunately a noteable amount of doctors who go beyond those set procedures and do all that they can in relation to their patients' health, (I have yet to find such a doctor!!), whereas other doctors just follow set procedures, and yet again there are also other doctors who fall signifcantly short when following those same set procedures.
It is a coincidence that you should mention veterinary supply companies, as over the years I have sometimes thought:- "How is it that animals can be treat by vets for vast ranging medical problems and yet animals cannot speak, so, therefore, cannot relate to others how they are feeling in relation to their health!!" If vets can do this, why cannot Family Doctors/General Practitioners do the same??
Yes, I am being prescribed medication for my hypothyroidism, but there is a similar tale there, where many patients are not receiving all the requisite medical tests. Therefore, I also take herbal supplements as well as my prescribed medication, as I have undertaken a considerable amount of medical research in relation to thyroid disorders, as well as my other medical conditions.
How are you feeling these days, do you have any other medical problems?
I enjoyed reading your post. It sounds like you're doing everything you need to do in order to be a good "medical consumer" since it's ultimately up to the individual to take charge of his/her own welfare.
Most of my symptoms are clearing nicely. I had weird light shows in one eye--optic neuritis--that started resolving as soon as I started B12. My breathing is much better now, as is my energy level. I still have tingling in my feet, but it's not bad. MUCH better from this time last year. My "brain fog" comes and goes, but I'm not sure how much B12 related that is. I also take Acetyl-L-Carnitine, and I think it helps that too.
Where do you find that too much in the way of B12 shots is bad for you? I haven't come across any toxicity levels. In fact, doses up to 50 mg have been given to some, in studies trying to regenerate nerves. With you having a real B12 problem, then what you're taking orally probably isn't high enough, as I've read that only a small percentage (around 5%?) of each oral dose is absorbed. The cyano-b12 you're taking is only 50 mcg. The ideal oral dosage is *at least* 1000 mcg. However, there is some concern about taking too much cyano-b12 because of it's cyanide component. Can you not find one of the other forms in England? Can you order via the internet? I get mine from iherbdotcom (replace the "dot" with "." maybe the name of the place won't get deleted like it usually does). I have no connection with them, just find them easy to deal with, cheaper (for me, but I'm not international) than my local health food store, etc.
I, too, take a B complex, but I take my methyl-b12 away from it like I'd read to do. I don't think it really matters--what does matter is that you do take a complex at some point each day to keep from getting out of balance with the others. Methyl-b12 is already in its co-enzymated form, so it doesn't need help getting converted (but maybe to be absorbed?). Used at night, it's supposed to also have some impact on sleep--a good benefit of some sort--forget what, so that's when I take it.
Since you have a "down" period between B12 shots, it would seem that you don't store it well. Since B12 is stored in the liver, have you researched liver health and things to supplement it? I've been doing that (studying it) and trying to take a few "support" things (Alpha Lipoic Acid and Milk Thistle).....and trying to just generally be kind to my liver (avoid chemicals whenever possible, etc.).
I don't know of other health problems.....just that the B12 def. sure caused a lot of different things that didn't seem related at first. When I first started getting tired a lot, I wanted my thyroid checked because problems with it were common in my family. Everything came back "okay", except for larger than normal MCV--which is indicative of B12 or folate def. Because my serum B12 came back normal, I went un-Dx'd for several years. Methylmalonic acid test finally revealed the B12 problem. Too bad my doctor wasn't up-to-date with B12 knowledge. Haven't had my thyroid tested in awhile. I do have low-body temperature which could be from thyroid, even with normal testing (Wilson's Syndrome, I think it's called). I haven't pursued that yet....I'm waiting to see how far my B12 will carry me back to "perfect health".
Good luck to you! Post back if you can tell any difference between shot times (though I really think you need higher oral doses to tell anything....hopefully I'm wrong, though!).
I've read your last couple of posts and noticed we have the same medical problems. I've been diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Hypogylcemia, low blood pressure, and vitamin b12 deficiency. With my vitamin b12 deficiency I get terrible migraines. With the hypoglycemia, I just get regular headaches. The Hashi's severely fatigued, hair loss, etc. Low blood pressure I get dizzy and my vision will go completely black. These are just the major/general symptoms I have with each.
On a different note, I was wondering if anyone has experienced weight loss with the b12 injections? I've been getting injections now for a couple of months and have already lost 10lbs. I was fairly skinny before, now I'm really thin. Also, I too noticed that the injections were taking 2-3 weeks to kick in, and then would only help for about 5 days. But once I started getting the injection every week I started feeling so much better.
hi guys, well i dont know much about the different types of thyroid problems, but did get diagnosed today with a low performing thyroid, in fact some nodules were also found. i was placed on synthroid (?) 25mgs to begin with and in a month when i go in for my monthly followup it will go up to 50mgs.
as for the vitamin b defiency, i dont know how , but they can tell by bloodwork. thing is i had a shot, and 5 days later went in for the test and of course it showed up that i was high in vitamin 6. but she said it was probably due to having just had the shot several days prior. I am continuing the vitamin b shots. yes it takes weeks for it to work, funny the very first one i had seemed to work within the first week. i could tell a difference, the last two have taken longer to work. but she still wants me on them am getting them every two weeks right now. I have alread lost a few lbs (which i needed to lose anyway lol, ) so thats a benefit there.
well my symptoms were exhaustion, headaches, which i hardly ever used to get except for sinus headaches once in a while but these headaces are bothersome, not migraines, just headaches. my whole body hurts (i have fibro as well) so have heard that vitamin b shots also help with pain , and that the low thyroid also has symptoms of exhaustion, aches and pains, ibs and on and on. hopefully the synthroid will kick in soon, she said it usually gets into the blood system by the 6th week.
Jen
I am getting really behind with everything at the moment with being in poor health, together with the fact that my sleeping patterns have changed, and also I am finding that I am sleeping for longer than I normally do; again resulting in less time available when I am awake, so I will not be able to answer your latest reply in detail at this moment in time, but will as soon as I can...
I was pleased to hear that most of your symptoms are clearing nicely.
Regarding:- "Too much in the way of B12 shots is bad for you". I cannot remember where I read that particular article, and also I read it a long time ago. Like you , I was totally surprised when I read it, which is why it 'stuck' in my mind, but when I am in better health I will try to find it again.
I live in a smallish town, so not many local shops, which was why, as an emergency 'quick stop gap measure', I bought that particular cyano-b12, so that I could be taking at least 150 mcg extra per day until I found something better on the internet. I usually do buy most of my medications over the internet, as you correctly said it often proves to be a lot cheaper in terms of cost. Thanks for telling me about "i herb". I have visited that particular site in the past, but again as you rightly said I found it cheaper to buy in this country because of the shipping/postage costs etc. However, if there was something that I could not find in England, then I would not hesitate to buy it from another country.
Cost of medicines, (apart from those prescribed by my doctor), is another problem, as I already spend a small fortune on them at the moment!! Therefore, nearly reaching my financial limit on that score.
Thanks for telling my about the cyanide component in cyano-b12.
Wish I had your excellent retentive memory; being able to bring facts and figures to hand at a moment's notice!! Earlier this year I was given two filing cabinets, so I have been gradually filing away a 'mountain' of paper work in relation to my past and on-going medical research. If I had not gone downhill again healthwise this time round I would have finally managed to have got all that particular filing finished, which is slightly annoying as I could do with having some of it to hand at the moment. Therefore, in a nutshell, the medical information in those files act as my memory, as well as being a good source of reference.
Regarding when to take medications during the day. I am gradually finding out that certain medications that I am taking should be taken at certain times of the day, or with food, or in between meals, and/or should not be taken at the same time as other medications etc. This is fine when you are sleeping in a normal healthy daily pattern, but 'fun and games' when not!!
Yes, I did some research on liver health about just over two years ago. Another long story relating to another past medical problem, where medications being taken had been affecting my liver. If I remember correctly the cells in the liver can regenerate (regrow) themselves providing there has not been too much liver damage, but having said that, as you say, it is far better to take care of if in the first place; especially since B12 is stored in the liver. Also thanks for reminding me that I might not be storing B12 well in my liver, which in turn may account for my "down" period between B12 shots.
Reference : "Too bad my doctor wasn't up-to-date with B12 knowledge" in your penultimate paragraph. I too had a similar problem, where my doctor should have prescribed B12 injections, but had not done so, fortunately when I saw a different doctor in that same practice, he spotted that mistake and prescribed me B12 etc...
Regarding your thyroid, I would suggest that you have a thyroid function test
at least four times a year as a safety precaution, especially if it is a common within your family, as said tests can come back normal even if you do have a thyroid problem. It would take too long to cover all the main points of note regarding that particular issue, so I will leave that one until I am feeling a bit better. Regarding the "Wilson's Syndrome", it has been critized by some medical professsionals, as they feel that it does not cover all the bases that should be covered in relation to the thyroid, even though it may be a good starting point in relation to some aspects (such as monitoring body temperature etc.).
Yes, like you, I too have noticed by reading your posts that we have the same medical problems!!
Yes, I too have had noteable weight loss with vitamin B12 injections. I used to be very slim when I was younger, but when I started to get thyroid problems my weight just piled on, but when I went hyper I would also lose a lot of what I had gained, only to gain it all back again when I went back to being hypo. Therefore, in that sense my weight was like a yoyo going up and down to the extent that I had to have clothes in three different dress sizes to allow for such fluctuations in weight. However, when I began having Vitamin B12 injections I noticed that I have become far more slimmer than I have been since previous years, and also my weight does not go up and down so much, therefore, everyone is now commenting on how I have lost weight. I also think that it is not only just to do with the vitamin B12 injections themselves, but also because they also give you more energy, so when you have more energy you are able to do more in a physical sense, and so in turn you lose more weight.
I had just nearly finished completing a post to you when my computer lost the internet connection, which is a wireless connection, so I will retype it again as soon as I am able to...
