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Old 03-29-2003, 03:03 PM   #1
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Post valium and the other benzos



librium, the first benzo was on sale way back in about 1963, valium and all the others came later.benzos are far better for anxiety and panic attacks than the antipsychotics, barbituates and major tranquillisers used before benzos came into use
the benzo clonazepam/klonapin/rivotril was originally developed for epileptic siezures, a researcher, chouinard, later said it had a special anti panic effect, so it was promoted for agoraphobia and panic disorder.Still later it was decided it had no special antipanic effect, but that all the benzos had an antipanic effect
xanax was also thought to have this special antipanic effect for a while

theres no doubt that early on, benzos were overprescribed and often taken in too high doses, medical journal benzo ads of the 1960's show benzos recommended for school exams,party nerves, wedding night jitters,visiting the wife's mother etc, benzos were also prescribed in high doses to aid healing after surgery.several of my friends became dependant on them and carried bottles of benzos always with them

however, the pendulum has now swung back too far the other way and people who can only function with aid from benzos, sometimes cant get any prescribed for them, which often stops them from working and drives them to drink
theres a general mass hysteria against benzos and its sad that so many doctors have allowed themselves to be effected by it,after all, doctors are very highly educated people....

antibenzo groups have long lists of official benzo side effects and aftereffects, these include agoraphobia and panic attacks
these after effects can last many years and occur after only a few benzos have ever been taken, they claim. since everyone has taken some benzos, agoraphobia and panic attack sufferers are told their problems are caused by benzo after effects.

panic attacks and phobias from them have been recorded since ancient times in medical texts, theres been no increase in them since librium first became available, but the antibenzo groups have a religious certainty and conviction about their claims.

getting the benzo dose right is still something of a black art, docs mostly prescribed absurdly small doses for anxiety sufferers in years gone by.vets, when prescribing benzos for animals use the weight of the animal, but weight is ignored when docs prescribe benzos for people.
since they act quickly, it does seem best to take benzos only as needed, keeping in mind that anxiety and panic attacks seldom are the same every day, anxiety seldom runs a smooth course.
theres little doubt that excessive benzo doses, over long periods, cause some problems.however, excessive alcahol is far more destructive.

sedation or feeling drunk is severe for some and limits the benzo dose, these feelings are strongest when starting a new benzo and gradually reduce as your system gets used to it,however, this doesnt mean that the benzo has stopped working or that the dose needs increasing. alcahol makes these feelings stronger, be cautious with drinking when starting a new benzo and driving or operating machinery.
those strongly effected by alcahol may well be strongly sedated by a benzo
some people arent sedated at all by benzos and can take excessively high doses with almost no side effects.

benzo tablets are better than capsules, as a high dose tablet can be broken into halves or quarters, so you can take only what you need, placing the tablet under the tongue to dissolve is fastest.

benzos are spoiled by heat, so keep them out of the car glovebox on hot days and keep them cool

it seems that they last much longer than their expiry dates

any thoughts or comments?


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Old 03-29-2003, 08:32 PM   #2
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Yes! Im Bipolar and I could wof down 20mg of Xanax without droping dead but the next day I would be paranoid, slured speech and agraphobic, imho benzos are much harder to kick then Narcotics as the seizure threshold is high and side effects uncanny! Yes in proper dose Xanax and Clonopin stop my anexity and panic attacks

[This message has been edited by Jabber (edited 03-29-2003).]

 
Old 03-30-2003, 10:51 AM   #3
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that xanax dose is much too high
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Old 03-30-2003, 12:12 PM   #4
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Many people have become sick on benzos, even people who had no prior anxieties(they are prescribed for muscle spasms and post-surgery among other "medical" reasons), and went through long post-withdrawal periods, and eventually found themselves completely well of any symptoms. People don't have to abuse these drugs to become physically dependant(addicted is the wrong word regarding theraputic doses). You don't know what you are talking about. Visit and join some anti-benzo groups, if you dare, and they will tell you, about 98% of them followed doctors orders only!

 
Old 03-30-2003, 02:26 PM   #5
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I know it was too high but with my Bi-Polar (Manic-Deression) Doc says it works difrenly in me, it would eventuly know me out for 12 hours (Plus 12 beers) I eneded up in Detox in Jan and March and I clean just for today

 
Old 03-30-2003, 05:49 PM   #6
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I did my internship at a forensic mental hospital working with the severelly mentally ill....yes, there are therapeutic uses for benzos, and even certain individuals who qualify for longterm use of benzos. Many of the schizophrenic, severe bipolar, and severe borderline personality disorder patients did benefit from use of these types of drugs. Also, individuals with no severe mental illness can benefit from short-term courses of therapy. For instance, a month of valium prescribed to a woman who suffered a late-term miscarriage, or recovery from a painful surgery. But these should be closely managed by a mental healthcare practitioner.

I am also of the opinion that general practitioners shouldn't be able to prescribe antidepressants or benzos, since they were never trained in the assessment and treatment of psychological problems.

On the other hand, I think the the treatment of anxiety disorders in general is pretty crappy. Whether innate or learned, the best approach is teaching behavioral coping strategies. Another important factor - evaulating diet and lifestyle, and pre-existing coping skills (or lack thereof).

The treatment of anxiety disroders has, in general, been abyssmal, IMHO.

 
Old 03-30-2003, 07:13 PM   #7
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This has been an interesting thread. I've had a prescription of Xanax literally for years.
Same doses, except at extreme times and I have absolutely no trouble with the medication.
I think the whole right or wrong of the whole problem is that it totally depends on body chemsitry.
I'm horribly allergic to Narcotics and I have a terrible time with pain meds for serious stuff.
Like after my hysterectomy.
I was freaking out on the Morphine drip when I woke up pukey from surgery.
What a nightmare.
After the Hysterectomy my Colon stopped working 20 days later and that was one of the extreme times
they increased my Xanax. After the Emergency surgery
to get save my colon.
I tend to have these little health wrecks and then when things straighten out I go back to my regular or less dose just depending on what's going on with my body.
Like this year was rough. I eventually had 3 surgeries in less than a year. So right now I take Xanax at night to sleep because the Doctors are still unraveling my medical mysteries. When I feel better I probably will just forget to take the stuff.
I don't have any clue as to why that stuff is rough on some people and not on others.
The only sensible thing I can figure out is body chemsitry.
I have had anxiety since I was a child.
I only recently discovered that I also have a severely hyperinsulemic pancreas. I now have to take medication with meals for that problem.
No one ever thought to give me a glucose tolerance test.
I was told for years that all those shakey jitters I had were anxiety.
And, well, yes, I suppose it was anxiety because it darn sure will make a body anxious when the blood sugar is doing a rollercoaster drop on it's way to a coma.
So I suppose I am anxiety prone.
Odd what a body does isn't it?
kat


 
Old 03-31-2003, 02:56 AM   #8
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I agree seaseal Stress managment does help. I am Bi-polar but not to the max (Lucky)

 
Old 03-31-2003, 12:41 PM   #9
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Funny thing is, Xanax can cause blood sugar problems, like low blood sugar. Even if one can tolerate a dose without developing tolerance(usually due to not taking daily doses or very low dosage), these drugs do cause some medical problems; worsen existing anxiety, sleep problems and even have caused MS-like symptoms. There is alot more info on the benzo dependancy sites.

 
Old 04-01-2003, 12:35 PM   #10
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Well, gosh, when you think of it that way, then I suppose we should all get off all drugs and unnatural substances and cold turkey ALL of our life conditions because of the damage they might could cause.
And while we are on the subject of side effects, herbs
are no safer either.
When was it not too long ago when the world was enthralled with Kava Kava for it's wonderful antidepressant anti anxiety powers and now it's getting pulled off shelves and under hot debate.
Or any of the many many plants that have been brought under scrutiny by the evil FDA over the years due to too many an overdose, death or psychosis.
Heck. I just got this really long warning letter from a friend of mine on the hideous dangers of glucophage
which I take for my low blood sugar that I had long long before I ever knew Xanax existed.
So like with Glucophage and all it's evils my thoughts are this.....we each make our choices for the kind of health we would like to have both short term and long run.
I know for me, the reality of Diabetes is much more of a concern than the side effects of glucophage because I can see the whole genetic syndrome developing in my own body.
When severe organ wrecking death causing Diabetes runs rampant in ones family,the reality of the problem and attendant disease processes really makes one think about the quality of life.
No one else in my family takes Xanax.
So Xanax didn't cause their form of the genetic problem which began with low blood sugar until one day the pancreas wore itself out with all that overproduction of insulin and then poof, that's the day they became diabetics.
All the women in the family all have hypertension.
They don't drink or smoke either.
All the family women wind up with Diabetes and Ovarian cysts and YIPPIE!!! Breast Cancer.
Sometimes, there is no fault.
It's just the way the stars were written.
And for me, knowing the possibilities of my genetic future are enough to lead me to my medication decisions to get the best out of life in the now because tomorrow is a gamble any way one would like to cut it.
It's good to know the pros and the cons.
If we don't know the pros and the cons we will never make informed choices.
And our choices should always be towards the end of betterment for our bodies and our quality of life.
kat

 
Old 04-01-2003, 01:14 PM   #11
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Post>>>The treatment of anxiety disroders has, in general, been abyssmal, IMHO.<<<

I have to wonder if the reason for that is because some truly organic problems have been mistaken for an anxiety disorder when the organic problems are over looked.

I had an instance recently, like in the last couple of weeks where I was in terrible pain.
I had pain everywhere.
No one could figure it out.
My head hurt, My neck hurt, My back hurt, I was crankey, and whiney and short tempered and I'd cry at the drop of a hat.
I was having migraines that were one long huge never ending pain event where I was going from migraine treatment to migraine treatment.
I was seeing flashing lights, I was disoriented and I couldn't remember things from day to day.
I am on a huge amount of a Beta Blocker to conrol my pulse and my BP was even pushing through the Beta Blocker. Well, this stuff went on and on and I went to see a Nuerologist because I was starting to worry about having a stroke.My left arm was hurting really bad.
The Neurologist decided that I was having a major depressive episode and put me on a ridiculous amount of sedatives and wanted me to see a psychiatrist.
When I told him that I disagreed with his diagnosis and that I wasn't wasting time and a co pay on a psychiatrist when I knew I needed some physical medicne care, but I just wasns't sure what.... he of course got anoyed and basically told me that I didn't now what I was talking about.
So the week passed.
Well, last night I had one big bad awful terrible horrible toilet trauma.
It now seems that I was suffering from the mother of all constipations.
TEN POUNDS WORTH OF POOP in an evening filled with horror moans and much distress.
Thanks goodness the Endocrinologist, who did a bit of surgery on me in January to rescue my colon from entrapment by adhesions and endometriosis to the musculature of the pelvic wall, had given me phenergan suppositories or my situation would have ended up in the emergency room just as it did last April when I had Emergency Surgery for a similar problem.
I used a phenergan suppository and as soon as it began working, the place where the external colon adhesions had held the colon to my other innards released the plug and there it went in all it's glory.
I was HOURS on the toilet.
This morning my head no longer hurt, I'm not seeing things, I'm not overly emotional etc, etc......
I gotta wonder how many women with endometriosis causing real and debilitationg problems from the growth of adhesions, are being diagnosed as having anxiety or depressions.
It is a fact that the hormonal imbalance of an endometrial problem will sure look like a depression or a manic condition.
Maybe the treatment of anxiety disorders has become abysmal because the real organic reason for a few dysfunctions has been ignored and placed into the mental health category when it's a problem (in more than a few cases) of the endocrine system.
All for the lack of proper diagnostics.
TOXIC WASTE was causing the current run with mysterious pain and body strangeness.
It boggles my mind. TEN POUNDS!!!!!!
Where did I put it? The intestinal tract is a mighty long piece of equipment.
Kinda sad isn't it.
kat



 
Old 04-02-2003, 01:28 PM   #12
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if we have a history of anxiety or depression, many docs think we are immune to all physical problems
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Old 04-02-2003, 06:11 PM   #13
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I for one, never said I was against medical drugs. Why this is always an assumption when one is against psychoactive drugs, I will never know. I was only referring to "psychoactive" drugs, which are basically neurotoxic(thus brain disabling theraputic effects). And yes, some herbs are neurotoxic and toxic to liver, kidney and heart, just like some prescription drugs. I do not advocate herbs; yet another assumption that people who don't want their brains manipulated and experimented on with psychoactive substances(regulated or not) are into the herbals. Not me; just give me good food, lots of exercise, a cap of cod oil since I don't eat enough fish, and I'm good to go....

However, I do agree too many real physical ailments are passed off as anxiety these days, perhaps doctors are overworked or simply don't care..either way, individuals must insist and get second, third opinions. We may not be doctors, but we have to realize they are only human beings too, capable of oversight, incorrect assumptions and influence, and the occassional error.

[This message has been edited by Jennita (edited 04-02-2003).]

 
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