Dear Members: I have always been against suicide. Still, the past 5-7 years has been the hardest the thing for me. Fighting pain everyday seems so unbearable.

Even harder is knowing that there is no magic to stop intractable pain. I do NOT mean to say I would ever think of taking my life. I just feel that my body cannot take much more.

Has anyone else felt this way. To feel this way, in my opinion, means that quality of life has diminished so much that living becomes a chore. I probably sound pitiful. I feel pitiful. I pray almost everyday and night for God to lift the pain from my body.

But in the end, I wish to say that we can make it with each other. All you wonderful friends and members I know you have it rough also. You all are always on my mind.

May Peace be with you all,

Risky Business http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

[This message has been edited by Risky Business (edited 05-13-2003).]

Risky, my husband attempted suicide in January 2001 and I know has thought about it a lot too. Your life is so special and God loves you. I hope you find relief from your pain and continue to want to live.

RB.....my buddy.....do you want tears in these big brown eyes again?! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif Have you traveled every road to end/control your pain? Is there not SOMETHING out there that will end/control it? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif Suicide? Is it the body conviencing the mind or the mind conviencing the body? Pity potty.....oh yea.....I know her all too well http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif Now get off her and give me a great big cyber hug {{{{{{{{{Riskybusiness}}}}}}}}} I, for one am very greatful for you. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/love1.gif If I could, I'd wish your pain away.

Thanks Robinsegg and Hope: Unless I get even worse I would never think of taking my life. No Robinsegg, please keep your cheery attitude and please do not be upset about me.

I have dealt with this before and it comes in phases. I love life, I just do not like being tormented by pain. Of course, I am sure no one does,

Thanks Friends,

Risky Business

[This message has been edited by Risky Business (edited 05-13-2003).]

Hang in there RB, you are a good person and good things will happen to good people.

I agree ...your a good man Risky. And I wanted to get back to you awhile back we had a convo about OXY IR. Well I had my forst visit with my PM doc yesterday and he wrote me a script for some and it is the exact same thing as the percocet just NO tylenol... I didnt even know we had it in canada. It wasnt covered on my plan though but the cost wasnt too bad 33 bucks canadian thats about 20 bucks american for 50 10mg tabs and they have a slit you can break them in half. Just letting you know because I know you dont need tylenol. Have a great day.

Autumn

Thanks Autumn and all members: I will definitely check with my PM doc about the oxy ir. I know it's less than the 7.5 percs. They do not have generic and costs about 1.75 a tablet.

You members just do not or may not realize how important your support means to me. It's like a best friend when you don't have a best friend.

I have a special place in my heart for all of you tha will never die.

Love Always,

Risky Business http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

RB bro Im glad your here!!!!! In Dec I tried to off myself with 75 2 mgs of Xanax, got me a month in the wacky bin, I look at my wife and son and see they really do need me so I stay for them, you my friend help so many on this board we need you

Jabber I am glad you are here too and you didnt suceed at "offing yourself" we need you here too.
And Risky already knows how I feel about him http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif. Stay safe Jabber your wife and son are worth it but so are you http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Autumn

JABBER, JUST WANTED TO SAY I HAVE BEEN WHERE YOU ARE NOW. A FEW YEARS AGO, I GOT REALLY DEPRESSED, AND THEN I STARTED HAVING PANIC ATTACKS. I ALSO TOOK ZANAZ TRYING TO END IT ALL. BUT SINCE THEN I HAVE GOTTEN ON THE RIGHT MEDS, AND I AM SO GLAD THAT GOD SPARED ME MY LIFE. LIFE IS VERY PRECIOUS TO ME NOW. I WILL KEEP YOU IN MY PRAYERS FOR COMPLETE HEALING.

HUGS TO YOU

------------------
south249

Hey Risky,
YUP hon, been there. NEver have or ever will attempt it cause I know it would totally destroy my only son and my hubby and other family. Suicide is not , i repeat NOT an option. BUT yea, when im hurting like hell without any relief for weeks on end, every single minute of every single hour, , hour after hour, day after day, week after week, you cant go here or there cause of the pain, you cant do this, you CANT EVEN THINK STRAIGHT at times, and dont feel HUMAN anymore, yea, suicide thoughts, do creep in. Some people cant imagine the amt of pain some of us go thru. Not your everday types of pain. When the doctors tell you, you will be like this for the rest of your life, and all we can do is , give you pain pills to "ease" the pain, take the "edge" off the pain, well, after a while you wonder if ending it will FINALLY bring you relief. But like i said, suicide is NOT AN OPTION. So we hang in there sweetie, and we support each other and comfort one another. We lift each other up and understand, that even tho we all have the face of pain , we are still very much human beings with the ability to love and care for one another. Then you weigh love against pain, and in the end love wins. Yea, things for me might be easier ending the pain, but with that option, I also lose out on all the precious love of my son and husband, and family and friends, and right now, thats all im hanging on to and if live the rest of my life in pain, so be it. I can survive as long as my heart can still feel emotion and still find beauty in life. Hang in there sweetie, we must not be defeated. Yup, the thoughts will come, let them come, then put them out of your mind completely and realize you are loved and still capable of giving love back and Support.

Your friend,
Jen

Hi,
I understand your feelings and pain RB...

I just want to mention what nobody mentioned in response to risky's post. There is physical pain and there is mental pain; and I'm not sure which is really worse.

Alot of people seem to overlook the serious pain of depression; and why this pain often brings people to the brink of or suicide. I've had intractable pain; and i've been depressed; and it's the depression - to me anyway that's really the killer of the two. Neither is pleasant --

I may be politically incorrect here - but for people who have exhausted all options to alleviate pain -- whether physical or mental...I mean really exhausted, and they deal with excruciating suffering each and every minute which can feel like an eternity - it is my belief that for them, suicide is an option that only they can choose.

Not everything in life has a solution to live a quality life.

Kitty

I think that you have to take the rough with the smooth. I know the bad times are hard, but I also think thats what makes us stronger. Everything is all relative and you can't appreciate the good times without the bad times to put them in perspective.

You know what friends/members: I would choose all of you to talk to up and above any most any doc. The thing is some docs and people have never had intractable pain continious....

And Janett---You so eloquently put into words my thoughts. Perco, I would guess that probably eberyone with severe pain that require meds or not is hurt emotionally also.

It's a cycle that seems to go round and round. I appreciate all these comments very dearly.

While we are on this subject...I hope someone or some members may allow their thoughts on this.......

Time after I wished and wanted not to have to take meds. My question is if and when this happens, and/or for those who are now clean, what helps the pain that you were required to take to begin with. All my reports suggests that my conditions have gotten worse.

How could I begin>>>>I have wanted to go into a treatment program so I can monitored. Love has and does help tremendously. So for those of you who have been to treatment....what do for severe, intractable pain, and laying in bed all day.

I just wondered what some replies may come from this question,

May all have peace in their lives,

your friend, Risky Business http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

[This message has been edited by Risky Business (edited 05-15-2003).]

Hey Risky -

I have the same question - if I stop the meds that the doctors say I'll be taking the rest of my life, what do I do for pain?

I believe it was Open Season who said that after you stop the meds, your pain actually gets more tolerable. To me this sounds a little unreasonable. I mean, if the pain were tolerable, I wouldn't have started them in the first place, right?

I hate to say this, but my doc said the same thing as OS when I posed the question to him. He (my doc) compared it to people with migraines who have rebound headaches from their meds.

I just don't wanna go through the damn withdrawal just to find out I'm still in agony!!

So, Risky, I'd be interested to get an answer to this question too - anybody out there have one?????

Take care - Dawn

Do You Want to be a Millionaire: I do believe the overwhelming question is what happens for all the diagnoses once you taper ond/or stop.

I for one hate paying for meds and trying to control my pain. I am nopt crazy and I know when my body is reaching out for HELP!!!

So Dawn, thanks and maybe someone can explain it to me like I am an eight year old. What happens with the existing conditions, torture, and symptoms if we detox--after we hopefully detox. I do know that some take meds for recreational purposes.

I wish I did not have to take at all. There is always 2 sides to every story. There are so many different levels of pain.

This is one reason I have not yet tried detoxing. And in some cases there just is not no detoxing unfortunately....

On the other side, I feel so proud of members here that have been real tough and not allowed meds or alcohol control their lives. I am somewhat confused about all of this.

I would beg those who have stayed clean and are doing about level 5 medium pain to keep up the work and it will pay off in more ways than one. I am so proud of all who has sustained.

I will keep waiting for ananswer Dawn as you will also....but I wish to be clear that if anyway possible, I would never take the torments of hydrocodone and others.

Best wishes to all, With Love that shines,

Risky Business http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

[This message has been edited by Risky Business (edited 05-15-2003).]

I think there are people that have real pain that should take medication like opitates. there are chronic and life-ending illnesses that shold be controlled with pain meds IMO. I mean it is a catch 22 really isnt it. you have a bad injry or illness that truley does require strong opiates and the stuff hooks into in no time. But IMO if there is nothing else that can controll the pain and it is really needed I say take em if ya need em. Problem was I did not. Alot of us really do not. Some of us really do and that is oakay. But I have stopped dead in my tracks, turned and faced this, and will go over it. I might limp but I am going over the hill. Not next time, this time. Not later, now. Sorry guys have to keep drilling that into my head.
Peace

Tim

Hi Risky Darlin http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif how are you today? You know what I think? You think and worry too much. You are like me my friend you have a chronic pain condition. My Pm doc told me yesterday Surgery will not even help my pain which I thought it might he said it might lessen it a hair but I will never be pain free in my lifetime. After 12 years it has become nerve pain he did a test to find this out. He put me on the OXY IR and said "taking this 3 or 4 times a day for the rest of your life isnt a big deal" I couldnt believe it.
Anyway like I was saying Risky,,we have chronic pain with me I now know I will be on pain meds the rest of my life and the way you talk you might be too. So please DO NOT feel guilty about taking something that is going to make your quality of life better ok? You always seem to talk like you are doing something wrong by taking your 3 or 4 percs a day you are NOT and either am I or the hundreds of others on these healthboards that REALLY need the meds. Anyway I will shut up now lol http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif talk to you soon I hope and keep your chin up my friend cuz someone here cares for you very much and I doubt I am the only one from the many replies your posts generate.
Luv ya
Autumn.

Tim!!!! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif how are ya feeling? Now you are going to get a lecture like I just gave my friend Risky here lol. But yours is different...I want you to stop making yourself suffer anymore than you have to by feeling guilty for taking the pills its not like you are the only one. We are all in charge of our own destiny and no one should judge anyone elses business. Now I want you to do me a favour as my friend even though you dont know me. Please go to bed!!! You worry me and you need your sleep. God Bless you Darlin and have Sweetdreams.
Luv Autumn http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Autumn Angel (edited 05-15-2003).]

Yippie O got five hours sleep. thankfully it was a heavy five so even though I did not sleep for a long time I feel much better. Just get rid of the little bit of restless legs I have and I wold feel pretty good. thanks for sticking with me through this.

Hello Folks,

I'm not new to the healthboards, but this is my first time posting to this section.

I read this thread with great interest. I can relate to so much of the different things each one of you have talked about.

My story is very long but I'll keep it short for now. I just want to share a little so that everyone will know I can truly relate to how you feel. We are all human beings with FEELINGS. Pain can really work on the deepest parts of your emotions, and soul. So can addiction and chemical dependency.

I was involved in an industrial accident in 1985. My pelvic was crushed between 2 pieces of heavy equipment with a combined weight of 18 tons. When I looked down at the lower half of my body, I saw my right foot pointing backwards. My heel was pointing forward, not my toes. My whole right leg was rotated that way. I heard the bones breaking (it sounded just like wood when it breaks ) Five orthopedic specialists told me I'd never walk again. The injury was really severe. However, I refused to listen to those doctors, I told them they were not God so they didn't know whether I'd ever walk again. I was told I'd be in a wheelchair the rest of my life. I refused to listen.

It took me 18 months of extremely long and painful physical therapy and I walked. I remember crying like a baby when I took my first few steps. I hugged my physical therapist and thanked her for believing in me when no body else would. Not even my family. They bought into the doctors poo-poo. I still walk today, and I live with intractable pain. In fact it's worse now than it was before I started taking pain medications. Why? A couple of you have asked that question. I will do my best to answer it for you.

Please understand I'm a humble person, so what I say is not meant to sound like I'm any different or stronger than any one of you. Like I said, we are all human beings. We all have different situations and or injury's. And, there is no such thing as a pain meter, so I never compare myself to anyone's situation or pain. But I can certainly relate, and I have so much impathy for everyone who has posted here on this board.

By the way, I take 12 Norco per day, and 5 Dilaudid per day for break through pain. Also, Librium as a muscle relaxer. All very addicting medications that I've been taking since 1992. I controlled the pain with my mind for the first seven years. To be vey honest, I wish I would have NEVER started taking these medications. They can run your life when your body is so dependent on them.

Over a period of time our bodies become tolerant to the amount of opiates we are taking. So, we have to increase that amount to get the same pain relief. Or in the case of the addict, they must do the same, so they get the same high. That is just the way it is.

As far as why our pain actually decreases when we are able to quit taking pain medications, really doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Well, there is a simple reason/explaination, and I'll do my best to explain it. My pain doctor and I have talked about this at great length.

The pain meds will work great for awhile. Until slowly over a long period of time, the opiates shut down specific brain receptors called neurotransmitters. We're taking a drug, or drugs that tells the brain to stop producing our bodies own pain fighting endorphines. And since we've developed a tolerence to the pain medications that is the reason we feel like we hurt worse. So, it ends up that the very pain medication we decided to take to control the pain, actually ends up becoming an addiction challenge for some and or a tolerence issue for others. The brain is now chemically out of balance. And, when we decide to quit the medication/drugs either way, it effects our bodies the same. Withdrawal!

I've done a lot of research on this subject and it is my greatest wish that I might be able to help someone here. When anybody who is either addicted or chemically dependent on opiates goes to these clinics, they treat the problem with more drugs. Drugs for withdrawal symptoms like clonidine, Xanax and many others to choose from. It just depends on the doctor.

Okay, so you make it through the detox and now your clean. But what about the cravings? Your brain is still out of balance, and no drugs will never get it back in balance. But there are drugs to control the cravings. Heck, there are even drugs to make you sick should you take any opiates. They mean well but they don't realize that they continue to get the brain chemistry more and more out of balance. So, should you relapse, people/society call you a weak person. I say bull! Your brain chemistry is severely out of balance. Remember the neurotransmitters I mentioned? They need to be fed and awakened again. Or, balanced is a better way of putting it. No wonder we're depressed, have no energy, can't think straight, and the symptom list goes on.

May I please strongly encourage anyone who is interested, to do some research on Amino Acid's. They are the building blocks of life.

One final thing. I never judge anyone who has a addiction challenge, or is wrestling with chemical dependency. Heck, I'm chemically dependent myself. I'm saving my money so I can go to the clinic in Beverely Hills, CA. I want so bad to be drug free. Even though my Pain doctor jumps up and down and screams and says, "Your going to need these meds the rest of your life." It's my body and I know what the drugs are doing to it. And I know it's not good either. I know what these drugs have done to my life. No motivation, central nervous system depression. The list is long.

Oh, I almost forgot. The person with the high liver counts. You might consider doing some research on the herb Milk Thistle. Just a suggestion. It could help you. And, did you know you can do a liver cleanse? Please don't do anything without your doctors approval. I'm not a doctor, but I have done the liver cleanse and take Milk Thistle. I get rid of gallstones, when I do the liver cleanse. Again, please don't do anything without talking to your doctor first. I hope I've given somebody some hope today.

Best to Everyone,

Tenntod

[This message has been edited by moderator1 (edited 05-20-2003).]

Wow Tenntod that was great and I believe alot of people here will benifit from this. I think I have seen you at the Pain Management board too. I too have chronic pain that I take daily meds for and I have developed a tolerance too. I have detoxed a few times when I got sick of taking them and to just proove I could do it but sad thing is according to my Pain Management Doc I will be taking them the rest of my life he says after 12 years of Cp it is now nerve pain and even if I have the surgery ( he strongly recomended I re think this) I will still be in pain maybe a bit less but pain all the same.
So I come here as well to offer what knowledge I have on the detox and to offer hope to those lucky enough to be able to have the choice to get off these things. Your post was wonderful and informative and it will help alot of people I am sure. Welcome to the Addiction and Recovery board look forward to hearing more from you http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Autumn.

Hi Autumn Angel,

Thank you so much for the kind words. I can tell you're a very compasionate person. I've read quite a few of your posts on this board today and it's obvious you really care about others. That's a wonderful quality to have.

You might have read other posts of mine on either the Back Problems board or the Dental board.

Thanks again for taking the time to write me a note. I'm sorry for the typo errors or mis-spelled words. But I really hope the information can be of help.
Have a wonderful evening and week-end. I hope your pain is tolerable.

Best wishes,

Tenntod

Hi Tenntod -

Wow - what a thought provoking, compassionate, and insightful post. You have answered many questions I have asked both myself and other board members.

If you have a minute, could you enlignten me as to what's involved in a liver cleanse? I know I could probably use one!

Thanks - Dawn in NH

Tentodd: Sorry it took so long to reply. My pc has been acting up. I just wanted to thank you also for your informative post. I plan to read up on amino acids.

To all other members, you have been on my mind, I just been real stressed and having everyday problems. Just a part of life. Love to all,

Risky Business http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif

I haven't read all the posts, but I did want to reply. My mother left a 'good-bye' tape when she 'died'. Long story. In any case, the unanswered questions are something I live with yet i do have peace about them now. However, when things get really bad in my life, it does make me wonder.........I do believe that when one takes one's own life, it's a domino affect and that person ( who commits suicide) has to understand they are making it easier for others to do the same.

Hi Annie and Members: Suicide is a horrible thing and in my opinion the person who commits this act is having a horrible life.

I will add an example that I will always remember. When I was in Jr. High we(the students) heard about a Pastor's wife who took a pitol and said good -bye. After that we learned that she had suffered from migraine headaches most her life.

This my friends is why it is so important for us(those) who honestly suffer to be treated. Then it even goes another step. Because we have learned that treatment can cause liver and kidney problems, we must be careful with that also.

It is NOT a easy thing to do. That's why I named this thread "The Hardest Thing". Because it is in my opinion. May peace and God be with all,

Risky Business http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/angel.gif