In answer to #1Texan’s question:

“When did you discover you were Co-Dependant? I had never heard of it until about 6 years ago. Have you read Co-Dependant No more?

Texan:
I found out about co-dependency in May 2001 and it was indeed a huge eye-opener for me. I did read 'Co-Dependent No More' and even bought several copies for the friends of mine that I recognized as such within the pages of the book. My friends were really happy that I gave it to them and they too were enlightened about themselves.

I would recommend anyone who feels as if they must save the world or the people in their inner circle to read that book. Being co-dependent can be self-destructive and misguided…

Since reading 'CD No More', I have done my best to not fall into the trappings of my inner-core...the part of me that allows people to take advantage of me and the part of me that feels compelled to solve the problems of others…especially when not invited to do so.

My Opinion: I think a lot of us are here on these boards not only to seek opinions and advice of others but to also feed our own need to “help” those in crisis/need.
Co-dependency runs deep...but I don’t think it’s necessarily always a bad thing.

The trick is to do what you feel you want to for others but expect nothing in return... don’t count on undying gratitude for your good deeds/advice.

I also think OpenSeason is a prime “on-line” example of this kind of giving person. Don’t know if he is co-dependent but I do know that he pops into the different message boards on this site and offers his two-cents worth and goes on to the next subject. I don’t think he’s ever asked for advice...he just offers/gives it, or at the least “food for thought”.

Mind you, I feel his advice and comments are sound and sincere. So, Mr. OpenSeason… press on; I have appreciated your thoughts and views.


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Gina

Gina
You are so right about us being self-destructive and misguided.

I have given my copy out to 2 women friends of mine and one was as stunned as I was when she read it, she was grateful and went and bought her own copy.

Another friend blew it off, she recognized some of her behaviour, but made no effort to stop it.

So one friend is a happier person and the other is still trying to "fix" everybody.

When I was married to the A I always, always tried to make it right, it was exhausting, 18 years worth. Once we divorced I met a man who was a recovering A, and he pointed out to me he thought I was CD, so I bought the book and it was a compelling read. The longer I was with this guy the more I recognized this fault in me and guess what he took full advantage of it. He used me for sex, baby sitting, housekeeping, etc.

Once I was over him I set some boundries for myself and they work.

I have always been outspoken and when I was married to the A I quit, I got tired of the arguing and bickering.

I am happy to say I am closer to the old me now. I say what I feel, when I feel it. I feel so much better.

I agree that it isn't always a bad thing, I have learned with my friends, to help if I really see them in pain over something, and I always tell them "This is just my opinion, it doesn't really mean s--t"

I hope you have had a good day today.

Take Care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1 T

I know this isn't exactlly what you ment by this post, but I wonder if this book will help me.

This weekend I was soooooo depressed because my bestfriend will still not divorce her abusive husband even when I paid her lawyers retainer (without her asking) - and no matter how much stuff (toys) I keep buying my boyfriend he is never happy or satisfied. His happiness is so based on material stuff and I get upset I can't get him to see the light.



[This message has been edited by Citykittie (edited 03-11-2003).]

Co-Dependency comes in all kinds of interesting behaviour. It's a need to control others actions and can cause much distress if the object of your good will doesn't seem to want to go along with the plan...your plan. Go to your local library and look for:

"Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself", by Melody Beattie

The first chapter or thereabouts has several short stories of individuals depicting the different forms of codependency. The next chapter is a checklist of sorts to help you identify the many characteristics of codependency within yourself.

I think just about everyone has "symptoms" of codependency in varying forms; so just because you can say "yes" to a few of the questions doesn't necessarily qualify you.

Answers are "often, sometimes, or never"...(I think?) be completely honest with yourself as you go thru each question. You'll quickly recognize yourself as CD as you read the first few stories and you'll get a better understanding via the checklist.

It can be a very emotional experience if you start recognizing yourself within the pages of her book. So be prepared for some truths laid out and in your face. It can also be the best book you've ever read.

Another thing about the book is that it will help you identify where your codependent roots were formed in your life. She (the author) doesn't belittle the codependent; but she certainly gives you truly excellent ways to alter your behaviour.

I do not feel any shame for being codependent; I simply work to the best of my ability to not take on the problems of the world to the point that I become emotionally involved or consumed. (tough job sometimes)

The roads of codependency are paved with good intentions that have an incredible knack for turning sour!

I think you'll enjoy the book.

Now...go to the library right THIS minute! Ya hear me??? Trust me! I KNOW what's BEST for you; MUCH better than you know for yourself! (LOL)...git da picher?

Happy Day to you Miss Kittie!

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Gina

Good Morning City Kitty

Do you find yourself getting angry that these 2 important people in your life seem to be "not listening" to you.

Does your friend say negative things about her husband yet still finds reasons for staying?

The biggest problem of CD is when I have expectations out of folks. I have learned that when I expect something I always get let down.
I then get angry that "didn't" behave the way I thought they should.
I learned to set boundries, and it helps, I slip too, I'm human.

Let me ask another question: Do you ever feel like you want to stop being this womans best friend?

Gina:
I have wondered how you have been doing, I thought maybe I may have said something that you didn't care for in this post. I hope I haven't offended you.

I hope you both have a good day today.

Take care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1 Texan

TEXAN!!!

NO!!! I am so sorry that you had any idea that I was offended by anything you have said to me! Absolutely not true!

Now... being the CD that I am; may I suggest... (smile)

Seriously, I have not been offended by anyone, and certainly not you, on these boards. I know I may have offended some but I can learn to live with the knowledge that I can't please everyone!

You've been nothing but kind to me and since you like to tell it like it is... don't ever feel you should hold back if you feel you need to tell me a thing or two!

Texan's... y'all so silly! (uh...that's to be smiled at)

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Gina

Gina
It's these big Texas hearts we have! not all of us are as caring about folks, you should see the way some of my fellow Texans act WOOOO!

So how are you doing, did you order the book you were referring to?

You had made a comment in a previous post about trying not to drink I think you said by Sunday night, did that work?

I read you post about smoking, ME TOO, I'm in agreement with on that. I don't quit tho because I am scared to death I will get fat again! Can't be fatter than I am now ( I obsess about that too) Geez!

I hope you have a good day today, and the weather will be nice where you are, that always helps me.

Take Care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

T

Oh what the hell... if we aren't obsessing over some thing or another... what WOULD we do with ourselves??

My hopes and dreams to hold off on drinking went extremely well from the hours beginning Sunday night around 9:30 all the way 'til approximately 2:30 Monday afternoon.

And the nice cold beer that I am consuming as I write this is getting me past the jitters caused by a bit of overindulgence last night.

and s'more truth... I completely forgot to order the book... but I WILL!!! Honestly, I definitely will. Today!! I will do it today! I absolutely promise (myself, not you). Us alkies have to commit to ourselves ya know. I will order it and even show some sort of proof that I did.

The biggest trick will be to actually open the book and begin doing as it tells me to do. I'll keep you informed...and thank you for being so CD with me... see, sometimes... it really isn't always such a bad thing. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Gina

You are a Hoot!

Get your rear in gear and get on amazon and order the book!

Ok?

I'll order it too if I have too and we can READ IT TOGETHER!

I'm having lunch with my son today, his GF has decided to move back home(YES) I never thought they were suited for each other. Poor thing, he his hurting but not as bad as I thought he would be, he's like "I've done all I know to do and She has to do what she feels is best for her" This is his first serious relationship. I hope he can continue to move forward and find some body that he is on the same page with.

Order the book!

Take care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

T

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif Yes ma'am! Gee you sure are a pushy Texan!

Well IF you don't mind... I really must get my lazy butt to work! I have a business meeting at 11:30 that I was NOT planning on. (just talked to da boss)...

I have lovely work hours... I'll be there when you see me... and leave when I wanna....Just make sure my paycheck isn't docked! However, business meetings take priority. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/hammer.gif

(Sorry, about your son...Love certainly can be a *****)



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Gina

Thanks, I think he will be ok, but ya' never know.

I only push cause I care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif (that's only a little of the CD coming thru)

Have a good meeting.

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif T

Here you go Ms. Texan:

ORDER DETAILS
**************************************** **************
Shipping Details (order will arrive in 1 shipment)
**************************************** **************
Order Number: xxx-xxxxxxx-xxx5419

Subtotal of Items: $ 36.16
Shipping & Handling: $ 4.98
Super Saver Discount: -$ 4.98
Total for this Order: $ 36.16

ITEMS:
Shipping estimate: March 17, 2003
Delivery estimate: March 21, 2003 - March 22, 2003

1 "Sober for Good" Anne M. Fletcher (Author); Hardcover; @ $25.00 each
------------------------------------------------------1 "Seven Weeks to Sobriety" Joan Mathews Larson, Joan Mathews-Larson; Paperback; @ $11.16 each

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I decided to get the Fletcher book too...it had such good reviews that I figured I might as well kick in some extra incentive...help?... whatever.
Okay... now let's just get me to the point of opening the books and *gasp* reading them!



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Gina

Ok. We can do this if you want to. I will help all I can. I will go to B. Dalton tomorrow and get them too.

If you really want a partner..Pardner, I will read with you.

#1T

Yep... nothin' codependent about you! No Sir! Well, take your time...delivery isn't expected for about 10 days... Thank God!... or not. I am so aprehensive about this. I want it to work; I really do.
I just don't want to fail...again.
Tex you're great; it will be really nice to have you out there to help me through this.
HOWEVER!! I have another pressing problem that maybe you could help with. There are unknown persons out there in cyber-marketing-land that are insisting on fixing a different problem...that I didn't even know I had!
From: Shocking News
Subj: Gina Grow your penis safely and naturally

They tawkin' to me???

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Gina

Do You get those too???? I thought we were special down here DARN http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif HEE HEE!

I made the mistake of being TO CURIOUS and looked at some of those e-mails, guess what I got.. a virus that nearly killed my pc and me, Man it was awfull.

I'm just being me when I say I'll help, I will push gently.

If I may be so bold... What state are you in?

#1T

Carry me back to old Virginia... Yorktown to be exact. We don't have any "Remember the Alamo" stuff but we are where freedom was won in the very beginning.
Cornwallis surrendered to Washingon a couple of miles down the road from here.... and... I kinda did a surrender (giggle)of sorts in the very same location... some many moons ago! Just doing my patriotic salute... ya know?

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Gina

Ok now at least I have a location I can picture in my mind.

I have never had the pleasure of visiting your Great State. My husband was there while doing a stint in the Navy, he said it is very pretty country.

have you ever been to Texas?

T

I toured the Dallas airport back in '87! Does that count?
Your husband would have most likely been stationed at VA Beach or Norfolk. Unless he was stationed at the weapons station in Yorktown. Yorktown really is a beautiful little town.
Ahhhh Virginia...temporary home of the 911 terrorists.
Security is extremely high at Yorktown and a terrorist hit would not be easy to pull off... but I can't help but be a bit nervous. They hit Yorktown... I'm toast! The weapons station is THE base that supplies the Navy on the East Coast. Can you imagine a nuclear weapon getting blasted?
God Bless Mr. Bush...how he is managing to keep his alcoholism from rearing its' ugly head is nothing short of miraculous. He has really become my hero. Y'all from Texas are pretty neato spiffy keen peoples!

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Gina

Norfolk.
And I have heard him talk about VA Beach.

I want to talk about my son for a minute, he told me at lunch that he feels ashamed that this relationship hasn't worked out, He said He's ashamed because it's all bs. He wasn't blaming himself, just the whole situation. I told him not to be ashamed, that they are just two different people and not on the same page.

When I was in the shower a bit ago SHE called crying and left a message for me to check on him for her, she was concerned. He apparantly had had enouph and didn't want to talk anymore and she was pushing it.

When I called he said he didn't want to talk, I told him I understood and right now it doesn't seem like it, but in time the hurt will go away, and that all things happen for a reason. I told him he could come out here and stay if he wanted, and that I was here for him and that I loved him. He was trying so hard not to cry.

I'm not bad mouthing her or being negative, he doesn't need that. I guess all I can do is be here for him and check on him through out the day, we both work at the same place in different departments, so it's easy to go see him.
I don't know what else to do. Do you have any suggestions?
T

As a parent; the thought of my child(ren) in physical pain is unbearable. But for them to be in emotional pain is crushing. I remember when my oldest son had to face the death of his pet catepillar; I think he was about 7 years old. He was devastated and after I got past the comic effect...I realized that his heart was breaking. He is now 14 and has had to face the end of a couple of relationships that in his mind were "serious". Because he is so young; I'm able to use some different styles of comfort on him than might be useful for an older child.
Think of your son as a friend of yours that is suffering from the same thing. IF he chooses to express his feelings to you; listen intently and do your best not to express any negativity for his ex girlfriend...doing that could put him into defense mode and he may end up angry at you.
You said earlier that he stated he was ashamed for whatever reason. Try to avoid telling him not to feel a certain way...instead; ask him to tell you why he feels this way or that. His embarrassment at not being able to hold their relationship together is obviously at the surface of his emotions. Find out if he thinks anyone will think less of him... if it is; ask him is that the way he feels about any buddy of his that has gone through the same thing.
It's a difficult time in anyone's life to lose a love; and to tell them that...hey, don't worry, there's more where she came from...probably won't be what he wants to hear.
Assure him that his feelings are normal; the end of a relationship feels much like the death of that person; the pain will pass... tell him you love him and you are there if he needs to talk. Stay in touch in as much as you usually would; let him set the tone of the discussion and allow him to work throught it on his own if that is what he needs.
I assume he may have done a lot of hopeful talk concerning her while they were together and he's doing a lot of remembering of those things...it's just tough.
I guess the number one thing I can suggest: Don't bring it up to him other than; are you feeling better...would you like to come for dinner...etc. But let him choose or not choose to talk about it.
Also, if you end up talking to her...be nice; if you can't stand talking to her; end the conversation as politely as you can... don't burn your bridges...they could always get back together and you never know she could end up being the mommy to your grandkids!
Tough situation. Lemme know how it works out. I hope I was able to help.

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Gina

Good Morning Gina

Thank you for your words of wisdom.
I actually have been doing some of the things you suggested. When I called him last night, I asked what he was doing, and he told me, he then asked me if she had called. I told him she had left a message that she was concerned about him.

His hopeful talk was always about how he was trying to be more relaxed about stuff, he's a reactionary and was/is working on that. He always tried to posotive when he would tell me about their bickering, that he was learning things.

It is tough watching your kids go thru hell, but I have also been a believer in letting him do things whether they are right or wrong in my eyes(not as a young child) I think we learn from our mistakes and the good things.

I remember when he was 18 he wanted to buy a bike, he found a used Harley, and was estatic! His Dad called me andtold me to tell him not to buy it, get a small Honda. I told his dad, he is 18 years old, I will not tell him how to spend his money unless he ask's me.

His dad was always wanting to make it easy for him, I wanted him to learn from the choices, I believe he is.

My books should be here in about a week, my husband loves amazon, so I just decided to order thru them too.

I understand your apprehension, it is difficult to give up something that seems so secure.

Your pretty intuitive... http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/idea.gif Can you figure this out http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif THANK YOU

Take care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
T

Don't overwork my blonde brain so early in the morning! Thank you? Thank you? Huh? You lost me.

You silly Texan; you were already doing all the right things with your son! You just wanted to make sure my last semi-working brain cell was doing as well.

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Gina

Nope, that's not it. Something you did at 11:25 last night, from your PC.

T

Oh dopey me. Yes... and you are welcome.

Your Not Dopey, It is early.
I've been up since 2:30, my day is half way over Ha!

T

I am normally up by 6am every morning...regardless of what time I actually show up for work. I couldn't go to sleep last night and overslept this morning by one hour. I'm on my second large cup of coffee and I feel me getting lazier and lazier as the minutes tick by. I drank last night but musta paced rather well because I don't feel the hangover'y feelings that plague me after a night of overindulgence.
I look forward to going through the book with you and I also amd so grateful to know that you will be sticking by me with your ever-welcome support. You are just too precious. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Gina

well thank you very much, I'm sure some folks wouldn't agree, but it's nice to be thought of that way.

I'm glad to hear your not feeling bad. Did you happen to say you had started taking vitamins?

T

Yes ma'am; I have never taken vitamins my entire 42 years on any consistent basis (outside of pregnancy that is). I am taking 1,000mcg B-12, Centrum "AtoZinc", and Ester-C 1000 mg. I plan to get Omega-6 fish oil. I wish there was one happy pill out there that would combine all these! I'm pretty sure that once I get into that book, there will be even more that will be suggested for my daily ingestion.
I surprise myself that I'm even taking these pills. I HATE pills!
Also, in addition to the OTC's, I am also on Paxil for my anxiety/depression and Adderall for my lovely ADD.


------------------
Gina

A HA, We are the same age. I will be 43 in September.

Your doing better than me on the Vitamins, I took them for years and the just quit???

I was on Prozac, and things here at work got better, so I stopped, and so far so good.

I have another question. How do your boys feel/react when you are drinking? Man that's bold, you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

T

You nosey woman you!
Anyway, my four year old is pretty oblivious to it.
When I drink, nothing changes in my personality as it once some years ago did. I'm not hyper or angry...sad or really anything different.
A couple of years ago; I discovered that the reason I would drink beer so quickly (thereby becoming drunk faster) is that the beer would get warm quicker... I always poured it into a beer glass. One day I had to drink straight from the can but was given one of those can hugger thingys that helps keep the contents colder longer. Well... what a revelation THAT was!
Now one can will last me longer so I'm not so much in a hurry to drink it before it gets warm... Obviously, there are days that I must be a heck of a lot more thristy than usual because I do, at times, drink a can down in a fairly short period of time.
That may have been too much info... I guess what I'm trying to say is that; I generally just stay sober most of the time. My body is so used to the stuff that it takes a BUNCH to actually drunken me. (did that make sense?, of course not!)
My oldest son has never really seemed to have issues with it...he is more concerned about my smoking and he knows all the right words to tear out my heart!
Obviously, there is no way to determine how my drinking may affect them long-term...unless I up and die from a alcohol-related disease... I imagine that would get their attention... I don't mean to be flippant here...
I do worry about what they may later on in life think of me. I shower them with much love and attention but when I need my alone-time...they pretty much respect it. The youngest doesn't quite get the idea yet but he's fine... I tell him mommy needs some alone time and he cheerfully says ok! and out da door he go!
Tex, be as bold as you want... I'll let you know if you go too far... and I really doubt you will... only because I'm not afraid to answer questions...

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Gina

Gina
I guess it is being nosy, but it helps me to get to know you too.
What you said does make sense, your not putting down a case a day, or it doesn't seem like it, so you are drinking, but just at a slower rate. Do you get it, you do make sense in all your postings, I'm pretty sure I could tell if you weren't sober.

If your personality doesn't change I think that is wonderful, your kids probabaly see you on a pretty even keel.

All i have ever known are alcoholic men who's personalities did change. This is new for me, and I want to learn from it. It may be that we can help each other http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Tex ( I've always wanted to be called that:d)

Hmmm... I can and do put down a case in a 24-hour period... luckily, not ALL the time but more often than not! This morning is the first time I've made any post being sober as a judge. I drank the last beer last night...much to my dismay when I went to get one about an hour ago. I bought a case on Monday at 2:30 and I am now out...so in no way am I under control.
I am not trying to fool you or myself into thinking that my drinking is not all that bad. It is all that bad. I do get drunk and have been drunk many MANY times as I respond to various threads on these boards. The weird thing is; I become even more insightful..the drunker I get??? Go figure!?? I have "counseled" many a friend in some of my drunkest moments. It's like when I need to be serious, I am; regardless of how much I've drank. I'm a funky drunk I suppose...but then I do love my individuality; I really like to be different than the norm.

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Gina

By the way...any of you that may be reading the posts here between Tex and me; please feel free to jump in with your two-cents worth. I welcome all responses to my problem drinking issues. OpenSeason: I KNOW you are lurking in the shadows!!! Come on... you must have something to say!
Seriously, Tex and I are not in any way making this our own little private thread.... jump on in...the water's fine! Right Tex???

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Gina

Absolutly!

I'm sure there are good opinions out there, wanting to get in here.

T

Gina
I don't think you are trying to fool anyone, I'm just trying to get a feel for what it is like for you, (does that make sense?)

The main item right now is that you are seeking help and that is a step.

I'm here http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Tex

I'm going to crash your party ladies! I wanted to pop in and just tell you both that even if I haven't responded to your posts, I have been lurking and the posts are insightful and helpful! Now, to the original topic of co-dependancy and addiction, I have been in two alcoholic relationships with men: my ex-husband and my fiance actually. With my ex-husband, I didn't feel the need to change him or fix him or any of that. I knew he drank before we were together and so I never felt as if I were the reason he drank. Actually, when he'd get drunk, it just made me mad. I held him 100% responsible and no excuse was a good one. When we divorced and I met and became involved with my fiance, I had a competely different view of his drinking. I never thought it was because of me but I was a lot more tolerant I guess would be the word. I felt that he wasn't completely responsible, that he has a disease. Then things started getting kind of ugly, he would be sick all the time whether he was drinking or not and was getting snippy with me and starting to take his frustrations with himself out on me (he was having sexual disfunction problems due to his drinking and blaming me saying he wasn't attracted to me etc.) It was then that I decided that no matter how much I love this man, I love myself as much if not more and I didn't (don't) need his crap. He had an epiphany of sorts and realized that he needed to make some changes in himself, especially if he felt that we were to have a future together. We have been around and around with this for three years and he is currently in his 6th week of sobriety so here's hoping! Now in terms of my own co-dependancy, I think I will get that book you guys have been talking about as in addition to the alcoholic men in my life, I grew up in an alcoholic family. I used to get angry at my dad for drinking and pity my mom for doing the same thing. Eventually, my anger and pity became shame and embarrassment that people might know and finally, I was overwhelmed with a desire to go as far away from my folks as I could. When I got away, I wouldn't talk to them if they sounded drunk and when I finally came back to NH from WA, I was pregnant and told them that I wanted them to be part of their grandchild's life but only sober. My mom was already on her way to recovery so she just needed a nudge as it were. My dad wasn't ready yet. After realizing how much my mom was enjoying my son, he stopped too. I don't feel that he would've stopped if he hadn't had a REASON. Sometimes I feel very co-dependant in terms of my parents, like right now, my mom is having health issues because of her weight and she is also suffering from depression so she doesn't clean her house real well which makes me crazy and I drop hints and push and obviously, it doesn't change anything. And I am overly protective of my 6 year old who has ADHD and is Autistic but I think that is different than co-dependancy. Isn't it? Please tell me it is! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/tongue.gif Anyhow, in my relationship with my fiance, we are striving for inter-dependancy (as he calls it) vs co-dependancy. Does that make any sense?

Hi Rebecarooni

Your not crashing at all.
I don't believe that you are CD when it comes to your kids, your being responsible and nurturing, when I found out I was CD I didn't associate the things I did when raising my son with it. We are Parents and we have to keep our eyes and ears in tune.

Congrats to your fiance for 6 weeks, I pray that he will continue to be sober.


Do you get angry with your mom for not doing the things you want her to do? Do you get your feelings hurt when you think people are not listening to your advice?

Get the CD No More and answer the questions, it will help. I have read my copy 3 times in the last 6 years, sometimes I forget about my bounderies and get beyond them. I can't control anybody but me....

WELCOME RR
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1 Texan

Hiya again. I get annoyed with my mom, not angry and as far as people not taking my advice, again, I get annoyed if the advice I am giving seems obvious but I don't get my feelings hurt.

That is probabaly the word I should have used. I'm a little dingy as I've been up to long.

Let me give an example of one thing that happened to me.
A really close friend got involved with a married man, he had no intentions of divorcing because of his daughter. He and my friend had been seeing each other for about 2 years off and on when he called and told her he had made her an appointment at the local health clinic to go get tested for a STD, she was hurt, angry, in shock that he had done this to her.
My friend and I discussed it as friends do, she didn't know what to do, I told her you have to break this off now, he is making you no promises of marriage and you only see him when it is convienant for him and now he has slept with some one else and maybe given you something. She said yes your right.

That was 5 years ago and she is still seeing him, it annoys me that she is doing this to herself, it also hurt too that my advice was not what she really wanted.

I had to pull away from her for a while as everytime I talked with her or she e-mailed it was about this guy.

Bottom line: She should have listened to me, she might be a happier woman today.

Now,that is where I must draw the line and be careful of my reactions and how it makes me feel. I could go on and on, but I'm sure you see.. I am not supposed to control anyone, when I do I just get myself all worked up.

I try to fix things.

I hope that made sense.

#1T

You Silly Texan! Of course I didn't think that you thought that I was fooling anyone! 'specially not you!!! Well, not anyone for that matter. I am's what I am's and that's all I am's... Honest to a fault... Geez...my name IS Gina! Ya know? (not an alias...it didn't dawn on me when I signed up that I would reveal my private addictions to these boards).
Tex, you just keep on asking the hard or the soft questions... I have absolutely no problem with your trying to get more understanding...Nosey! (smile!)

Rooni!! How nice to have you crash our party! I am in agreement with Tex...your protective nature over your children is not to be concluded as a co-dependent issue. However!!! As he gets older and is able to make his own decisions...that's where the "back-off" begins. Trust me, I DREAD that day with both of my kids!

My mother has never come close to being even a social drinker much less a problem drinker. But she has quite a lot of the behaviour associated with drinking! Disgusting house-cleaning habits; poor judgment; horrible credit; irresponsible in more ways than I care to get into. I learned how to be a co-dependent via my mother. I've been the care-taker since age 12 and it's a tough role to overcome or leave behind. No matter how much my mother has pissed me the hell off (or will in the future)... she has my love and I'll deal with whatever as it comes. Oh GOD! And it DOES come!
And ROONI!!! I cannot begin to tell you how many times I have warned her over the last 30 years of certain things she was doing or whatever only for her to completely discount my words and do what she wanted anyway... only to have to turn to me to "fix" the problem...AGAIN.

Rooni...don't be nervous about getting the book; after you finish reading it (and during) you will have revelations like you wouldn't believe... be prepared...you may find portions rather depressing...but the book, once read, will make you feel great! Nothing like getting answers to lifelong questions!

LOL... also, once you finish reading it... You'll be able to point out a co-dependent as easy as pointing out your child in room full of kids.

Thank you for "crashing" our little party. Psssst...Rooni, Tex really IS dingy...and I'm even dingier! Danger Will Robinson...Danger!



------------------
Gina

You know it really wasn't that hard letting my son go out on his own, he was and still is playing music, that is what kept him focused.


Don't dread, it really ain't that bad.

#1T

I hope you're right about that... My boys are 4 and 14 and I have no desire to see them leave my home. I will suffer that empty nest thing in a serious way.
http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

I have a question...Exactly WHEN do you sleep???

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Gina

I usually go to bed around 9 and get up at 4. I get up feed the animals, drink coffee smoke, get ready for work and usually I'm here by 5:30

I think tho, I must be pre-meno, you know THE CHANGE OF LIFE

I have had bouts of not sleeping well about 5 years now.

And then if I'm stressing about something that doesn't help.


I read the review on that one book Sober for Good, I am really interested in checking that one out.
I have often wondered over the years about my self being alcoholic. THERE I said it.

How was your day?

T

Oh my God!!! Well... I love you for sure now!!! Shall I throw all the AA cliche's your way now?? LOL... nope I wouldn't do that.
Also... I too am in peri-menopause. My monthly curses have all but gone bye-bye. Meaning... they "come" but I gotta "dig" to know... I do hope I put that delicately enough!

------------------
Gina

You know I forget other folks read this too, we as women might be embarrising some body.

You didn't answer my question, how was your day? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

We be so anonymous...so are the rest of these thread poster's... no biggie.

My day was just fine, thank you. Me and da boss argued politics all day! All day consisted of about 3 hours tho! It's funny, he and I agree most of the time on most political issues but he likes to see me get all fired up so he'll play devil's advocate knowing full-well I'm just dumb enough to bite. He "used" to be a staunch democrat until I pointed out the error in his thinking. He has such a hard time admitting to his real political affiliation but he's getting used to ...slowly!
I left work...went to Sam's and stocked up on my "spirits" for the next few daze. Guess I should get while the gettin's good. I have a Texan on my butt now!

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Gina

You betcha.

You know how we are, we get what we want http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

You know I have to say I am very proud to be a Texan, it's corny as hell I know but, it's just so cool.

I was talking about the weather one day in January, we had a tornado go by about 6 miles from us, and I said, I never thought I would want to leave this state, but this weather is just freaking me out, Man did my husband jump on that, he got on the internet and started looking up Las Cruses, NM
I finally broke down and told him I can't leave Tx, this is my home, I can live somewhere else in Tx, but I just can't leave. Corny huh, but I don't care I am proud to be from here http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/t_up.gif

T

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 03-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 03-12-2003).]

I'm not a natural-born Virginian (been here since '68) but I am not too keen on leaving for other parts unknown. Nothing corny about it.

NOW... tell me why you think you could be alcoholic... that is if you want to.

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Gina

Yes I want to. Let me get to the house first, I may be working a little late but I will get on there tonight.

T

Hi
I got in and needed to do a couple of things before I could get on.

I have always been a social drinker, sometimes a bit more. When I was losing weight a few years ago I stopped drinking completly. Then after I was divorced and free, I started up again, every Saturday night for a good 3 months. I really became aware of how much I was drinking and got concerned so I stopped again.

After I met my current husband I started back up, We would go out and he would be very aware of how much I was drinking, I would meet a friend for supper and would usually have to many margaritas.

Jan 02 my Gardian Angel hit me in the head... literally. Sep 02 Gardien Angel hit me in the chest, head and nose, and it is only by the Grace of God that I am here.

I am now only having a drink when I am with my husband.
It's not often that we go out, and I don't drink at home.
What goes thru my mind is the fact that I hated it when my x would get wasted and make a complete fool out of himself. I never wanted to be with someone like that again, and I'm not, I feel like my husband could be with someone like that..Me

I often wonder about the genetic link, my dad was a heavy drinker and it almost killed him, he is ok now, doesn't drink at all. His mother died at 54 from alcohol, his sister was young also. I guess his Guardian Angel is watching over him as he is 64 now.

On the other hand, my husbands brother was a horrible alcoholic, he was 45 when his heart quit due to the damage of his liver. My husbands Dad was 61 when he died,he developed diabetes(my dad did too) and still drank and did all the things you shouldn't do. The stories my husband has told me about his Dad and his Brother when they had been drinking would curl your toes! My husband does not have a problem with alcohol at all, so did the gene miss him or is there really such a thing?

I am still coming to grips with my Sep incident.
I thought I knew what an alcoholic was,I guess I don't.

It sickens me to think of the problems I have caused and it's always been when A was involved..

I am hoping that maybe this book Sober for Good can possibly give me an answer.

Gina, what do you think?

Tex

Yes there is a genetic link. Alcoholism is a disease which can pass from generation to generation in an unbroken chain of broken lives.

>>> I would meet a friend for supper and would usually have to many margaritas.

I'm not ready to consider you an alcoholic (not my place anyway) but maybe a binge drinker of sorts? Geez, if I drank like you, I'd be tickled stupid. I'm not minimizing your concern but what you have told me so far... I'm not seeing an alcoholic...maybe I'm just missing something here.

>>> Jan 02 my Gardian Angel hit me in the head... literally. Sep 02 Gardien Angel hit me in the chest, head and nose, and it is only by the Grace of God that I am here.

You'll have to clarify that one! I've had one too many this night and I have no clue as to what you are talking about.

>>> I am now only having a drink when I am with my husband.

Nothing out of the ordinary there.

>>> It's not often that we go out, and I don't drink at home.

Darlin' I always drink at home...AND all by my lonesome! When I AM out in public (rare)... I drink with extreme care. I don't have any more than 2 maybe 3 drinks all night. I don't understand that one; but then I do like to be strange about things.

>>>My husband does not have a problem with alcohol at all, so did the gene miss him or is there really such a thing?

Certainly there is such a thing! Not everyone becomes an alcoholic simply because their father or mom or other relative is/was. Genetics only predispose you to the possibility of becoming an alcoholic...it doesn't ensure it.

>>> Gina, what do you think?

Tex, I don't see an alcoholic in you... I really don't. But maybe you haven't told me everything? I don't know. All I do know is... You just can't be my friend now! What a disappointment! Here I thought you wuz a drunken idiot just like me... and you ain't!Oh woe is me...

I think you are more worried that you could become one due to your family background...more than any real evidence that you are one. Relax, I think you got lucky. *smile*




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Gina

Oh be STILL my Heart!!!

OpenSeason!!! You came back!!!!

I love your quick...to the point...and I'm outta here's!!!

You go boy! (but come back again!!!)

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Gina

Good Morning All

openseason: Thanks for your input.

Gina,
Yes, I have told everything. My close friends and the husband don't think I am either. I do think the prediposition is there and I am more aware of my drinking habits than ever before.

I don't want to go in to the awful details of Jan and Sep on here. I will say that I learned an awful hard lesson.

Still friends http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif
T

Still Friends??? Shirley you must be joking! Of course we are! You silly Texan you!

You are very smart to be aware of your drinking patterns... stay that way and you will be okay. My mother always warned me when I was a teenager that I was predisposed and I let it go in one ear and out the other (typical know-it-all teen)...
Sure wish I'd given her advice some thought.

Give yourself a big pat on the back Lady!

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Gina

Shirley..Who is that? Ha!

Thanks for listening.
Do you think that people with compulsive tendancys are more likely to be drinkers?

T

Nope... I think alcoholism could be a symptom of compulsive tendencies; but not a lead in to alcoholism. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/idea.gif Texas-Virginian alliance formed... cool huh?

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Gina

[This message has been edited by GinaLee (edited 03-13-2003).]

Texan: There is only one question you have to answer.

If you yourself think that you "may" be an alcoholic,

then you are one. Social drinkers never have this

issue. Alcoholism in the beginning is a disease whose

bonds are so loose they cannot be felt...later they

become so tight they cannot be broken.

Tex... Remember how you got me to "think" the other day when you thanked me?? I need you to THINK now!!!!

OS... I know that is the standard rule of thumb and definitely a warning sign. The thing is, it doesn't necessarily mean she has crossed the line...so to speak.
By what she has told us; her drinking doesn't really have a pattern attached but she is overwhelmingly worried that she could become one which in turn seems to be the deterrant for her.


------------------
Gina

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Too cool, the north and the south getting along.

Ok, I'm thinking, duh, I need a clue???

Ok: openseason, I think, therefore I am http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif

T

wish we had personal mailboxes on this site.

I have been thinking about that too. Wondering...
I have a P.O. Box that you could mail to me your personal e-mail

I assume you were talking to me???????

Tex

Tex! You were so good at making me understand a thing or two and I can't make things any clearer for you. I really can't.



[This message has been edited by GinaLee (edited 03-13-2003).]

Tex... they don't allow personal contact information postings. They could ban you if you do. So...don't do dat.
Girl, I know you are smart and you can figure things out.. I'm workin' on helping you with that.

------------------
Gina

Gina
I am a total FREAKIN IDIOT! I'm tryin!!!!

T

I may be gettin it!

Yeehaw or something like that.
T

Well... you never know until you try... ya know? But I have a lot of faith in you girl! Don't stop now!

------------------
Gina

Texan, while I agree with Gina that your drinking doesn't seem to be a problem, I wanted to tell you a personal experience that comes to mind when I was thinking of you.

I remember being about 17 or 18 and asking a high school friend if she thought I had a drinking problem. Now, when I think back, I probably drank like once a month and even then it wasn't much. Compared to what I do now, it was NOTHING.

But, the point is, I think something deep down in me know that it could happen. I've heard alcoholics say that there they can feel there is just something different about the way their body responds to alcohol, something different about them that makes them not stop at a glass of wine like everyone else does.

So I think that if you worry AT ALL about it being a problem for you, don't do it. Because it just gets worse.

Gina lee

I'm working on something. I'm really Freakin tryin.
ok

#1Texan Yeehaw!

You really don't have to work so hard at it... it's already been done.

help me out here.

Blueskys
Thanks for sharing with me. It was such a big deal to drink when I was in High School, and I did just like all the rest. I remember thinking when I was younger that I would never drink, because I saw what it did to him, that flew out the window.
I analyize everything I do and this is one thing I do wonder about at times.
I just have to be very cautious from now on.

Thank you again

Take care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1Texan

Hi Gina

How are things going today? I have been freakin busy allday long.Lots of stuff to do today
Not much time to think about if I A or not. Yahoo

I hope you are ok http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif

T

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 03-13-2003).]

Oh you're too sweet... I am freakin' fine myself! It has certainly been a great day! Truly!

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Gina

Hello. I wanted to chime in to #1TEx about the pssibility of her being an alcoholic... I am going through that right now. I don't drink at all right now but it is because having been around alcoholics all my life, I am afraid to. It seems like when I would drink, it was mostly when I was alone, had no plans and would buy a bottle of wine, grab a book and hop in the tub, drink the wine read my book and when the wine was gone, get out and go to sleep. I live with an alcoholic now who has been sober for 7 weeks so I haven't had a drink in like two years but, he's going away in two weeks and it has been on my mind. Am I an alcoholic or do I have alcoholic tendencies or am I obsessing???

Chime away dear. You're so welcome to post with us. They say that if you think your are...you probably are. I'm not so married to that line of thinking but then again...what do I know? I'm just a drunk.
I would venture to say that you certainly are obsessing for the day your husband leaves and you can have the wine and the tub and book to read. But it might not necessarily equate to alcoholism... Just a way of relaxing or "downtime" that you haven't been able to do due to your husbands self-infliction.
When I was pregnant with my son's... I obsessed for the day that I could lay on my belly again!
Only you know your secrets and truly, only you can answer the ultimate question. See how it goes next week... I think you will know on your own.
Stay in touch.


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Gina

Hi Chippie
I agree with Gina, probably just looking forward to some alone time, it is difficult to get that these days.
Keep us informed.
Take care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1Texan

Geez Tex... you must be my number one fan! What a twisted lady you are! Don't you know who you are talking to? Gina is an alcohol-crazed woman who seems to want to die...quick.
How ever I manage to make sense to anyone is a mystery for sure.

------------------
Gina

Funny, I can't use the tub because there is a broken joist underneath it and I am more afraid than ever of drinking because I recently lost a bunch of weight and can't afford the calories! I guess I am more of a garde variety neurotic that a closet alcoholic!! I have codependant tendencies as well and am not always sure if I am being codependant or generous. For example, I get up early to make my man's lucnh each day. Actually, I am up early anyway, so I make his lunch. I make dinner everynight too and I serve it to him. He doesn't ask me to and always is genuinely appreciative about it. So is that codependant? Even though I do it for my own enjoyment? I was so sure of everything til I started reading this thread! You crazy women are making me think and I don't appreciate it one bit!

well girl that's what it's all about, but don't think to much or you will get CRAZY.

If your up and making him lunch I would call that considerate of you. As far as supper, you gotta eat too, and if you enjoy cooking, the better.

Ask yourself some of the questions I posted earlier
Let me know what you come up with.

T

Chippie, Co-dependency is "allowing" the substance abuser to function by "cleaning up the messes".. by phoning the boss to say he or she is too sick to show up for work. It's the feeling that YOU know best for someone else more than the person whom you've chosen to "fix"...
It's the taking on of others problems and making them yours...
It's living your life vicariously through someone else instead of dealing with your own life.

Co-dependency (CD) encompasses even more than my last remaining and overtaxed brain cell can remember.

You my dear, do not qualify. Count your blessings!!!

I know how you feel on the weight gain issue! Some people actually lose weight on the stuff. I actually managed to fit right back into my "skinny" clothes within 6 weeks after the birth of my first child...all the while drinking way more than is considered reasonable.
Today, I can laugh at what I used to deem too much! I'm way past that threshhold. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif

Also... welcome to the club of the outward neurotics! It certainly is nice to meet you!




------------------
Gina

I'm glad I can come here and be neurotic! Actually, my SO is an alcohlic and there was a time when he was actively abusing that he would ask me to call the boss but I wouldn't because he would never call my boss for me when I just didn't want to go to work and was too chicken to call in! I tried to "fix" one boyfriend when I was younger but finally gave it up because it was interfering with what I wanted to really be doing.

bump

? Bump? Is something wrong Chippie?

#1T Nevermind, this slow brain is catching up.

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 03-18-2003).]

Actually Tex, she got lost on what she wanted to say because she discovered a big ol' pimple on her face and wrote bump... I think had she been thinking clearly she would have written: BUMP!!! Oh noooooo!

Okay, I'll shutup.

------------------
Gina

Hi Guys -

I'm wondering if the line between CD and enabling are being blurred. What Chippie speaks of is simply being nice. For instance, I'm up getting myself a drink of water. If there's anyone in the room with me I ask, "does anyone else want a drink?" This is simply being nice.

Allowing, for example, your husband to spend YOUR last dime on beer is enabling. See the difference?

Or maybe I know absolutely nothing, and enabling and CD are one in the same. I'm kinda new to the psychobabble lingo.

A few posts ago in this thread someone mentioned how their drinking effects the kids. Well, my dad was a physically abusive drunk, and I hated him till the day he died at 43. There were days I couldn't go to school due to a bashed in face. However, he didn't get physical with me until I was a little older - 8 or 9. I remember my anger starting around 5 years old though when my mom kept insisting I had to forgive dad because he has a "sickness". Talk about CD/Enabling!! He would take off and desert us for weeks at a time, and when he came home finally, she'd literally bake him a cake!

As far as the genetic issue goes, I don't drink. I went on a bender at 18 when my grandmother died - in truth, she raised me most of the time, and I was badly effected when she died at 58. When that bender was over, I basicly never drank again. However, I do believe I inherited an addictive personality. My dad, his mother, and his sister all died of lung cancer at 43, 58, and 38 respectively and they were either drinkers or druggers (except Gram). Yet, I continue to smoke, and I'm 35. I have chronic pain issues, and it didn't take me long at all to get hooked on painkillers. I started off with Vicodin, and have graduated up to Morphine, all legally and legit from my doctor. So, I definitely believe addiction is hereditary.

Wanna hear a real kicker? There were 5 siblings on my dad's side, including one that was given up for adoption at a year old (that's another chat board entirely!) and was never seen again by the family until 4 years ago when dad's sister (my aunt and best friend who was only 8 years older than me) was dying. Somehow he heard she was dying and sent her a one page letter that simply said "My name is Ron, and I think we have the same birth mother". None of us knew where he was all this time. Anyway, looong story short, he grew up in the lap of luxury. Went to all the best schools, has his own business in Newburyport, Mass (which is an extremely affluent and exclusive town) and basically grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth. My family at that time was barely lower middle class. Had the completely different situation. Know what? Uncle silver spoon has all the EXACT same addictions and mental disorders my family has, even with completely different upbringing and NO exposure to his biological family. So, I truly believe it IS genetic.

I said ALL that to say this. Sadly, it does effect the kids, even without beating the sh*t out of them.

I saw another poster from NH here briefly - Conway I believe? If you're reading this, jump in. I never meet anyone from NH here!!

I welcome your thought on this, Gina and Tex, and anybody else that has an opinion. Can somebody tell me the difference between CD and enabling? How 'bout you, Open Season - surely you have an opinion!!

Dawn in NH

[This message has been edited by Dawn in NH (edited 03-18-2003).]

By the way - one more thing.

For the few of us that still smoke, do you guys notice that when you park your butt (no pun intended) in front of your computer, the need for nicotine increases? I seem to smoke so much more when I'm "working" on the computer. Is it just me? My mother agrees with me, but hey, that could just be genetic - lol!!

Hi Dawn
I just looked up Enable. And I don't think there is a difference. Provide somebody with means. Make something possible. Allow, permit, empower, qualify.
I wish I had my book here, just as a reference for a couple of things.
I hope this helps a little.
#1T

Dawn: That was interesting about the adopted brother. My family has realized that the addictions are genetic. My father told use not to have any children because of the addictions.

The difference in enabling and co dependency is this. Anyone can enable an addict by helping them and paying their bills, speeding tickets, posting bail etc. Thats all enabling. But with codependency the co dependent has an emotional attachment to the addict and gets upset when the addict acts out or has a relapse. The enabler is a Mr. Fix It who usually dosent even know what he is doing. He is helping the addict to make "himself" feel like a "do gooder".

Thanks Tex and OS - that clears it up a little for me. So actually, the CD can also be the enabler, especially if they're in a relationship, or simply room mates even. Been there - done that. They are pretty da*n close though, aren't they?

Ya - isn't that something about my long lost Uncle? Interesting theory on not having kids. Believe it or not, that HAS factored into my decision not to have kids. I didn't base my decision solely on that, but it did weigh heavily on me. Fortunately, (or not) the fibromyalgia has made that decision for me.

Thanks for your expedient response!!

Dawn



[This message has been edited by Dawn in NH (edited 03-18-2003).]

OH OPEN!! I think I'm startin' to fall in love with you sweet stuff! You REALLY are getting so much better with your replies! You know, I knew you were a good and loving person. I really did! You go Boy!

Co-dependency can get convoluted some times; especially when you are in the middle of trying to assess your past actions with your current actions.

I fall into the categories of enabler AND Ms. FixIt as well as the addict! Ain’t that just a nice place to find yourself???

OS is correct; the CD’s are usually emotionally attached but the emotional level of attachment doesn’t have to be reciprocated.

In other words; any of us on this board can show off our CD capabilities by allowing our emotions to become overly concerned and affected by any of the persons that we feel a connection to on this board. The “object” of the CD’s focus may not even realize that the CD is so intensely wrapped up in their problems…but could definitely feel the wrath of the CD if goals set are failed miserably. That’s where co-dependency becomes especially toxic…not only to the focused-on person who is caught completely off guard but even more so to the CD. The CD pours his or her heart out to the substance-afflicted person in order to fix whatever may be wrong and find they’ve come up short in their efforts.
The CD is left with feelings of resentment, anger or disappointment (RAD for short!) and questions of “Why didn’t he/she just do what I said! I know what I’m talking about! Why couldn’t they see that?”

Bottom line: Support, encouragement, feeling sad or happy for others and sharing of individual experiences is a wonderful thing; but don’t expect anyone to do anything just because you know you are right…and you very well may be extremely right; but it isn’t you living in the shoes of the one fighting the battle.
You must draw the line when you are affected to the point of “RAD” at the person’s inability to grasp the ideas and suggestions you give.

It’s the ol’ “you can lead a horse to water” thing; just understand that the horse may not be as thirsty as you are.


------------------
Gina

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GinaLee:

In other words; any of us on this board can show off our CD capabilities by allowing our emotions to become overly concerned and affected by any of the persons that we feel a connection to on this board.

Hi Gina - were you just being sarcastic when you said this, or were you serious? I think you're kidding. You are, right?

I pride myself in having empathy for people in our situation, and actually people in general. I'd hate to think I am co-dependent simply because I care for people, and am concerned for my friend's welfare.

Maybe the operative word in your sentence is OVERLY, right? I can be concerned about all of you, just not too concerned.

I'm not trying to be a smart a*s - I'm just really wondering what you meant by that statement. You seem to be such a strong and compassionate person, and CD has never entered my mind in connection with you. Maybe I simply took your statement out of context.

Explain please!!!

Dawn

I'm going to put some stuff out here from CD No More

This is what I have highlighted in my copy.

When we attempt to control people and things that we have no business controlling, we are controlled. We forfeit our power to think, feel, and act in accordance with our best interests.

Attachment is becoming overly-involved, sometimes hopelessly entanglrd.

Attachment can take several forms:

WE may become excessively worried about, and preoccupied with, a problem or person(our mental energy is attached)

We may become reactionaries, instead of acting authentically of our own volitation(our mental, emotional, and physical energy is attached)

We may become emotionally dependant on the people around us(now we're really attached)

We may become caretakers (rescuers, enablers) to the people around us (firmly attaching ourselves to their need for us)

maybe you've been obsessed with someone or something. Someone does or says something. A thought occurs to you. Something reminds you of a past event. A problem enters your awareness. Something happens or doesn't happen. Or you sense something is happening, but your not sure what. He doesn't call, and he usually calls by now. He doesn't answer the phone, and he should. It's payday. In the past he always got drunk on payday. He's only been sober 3 months. Will it happen again today? You may not know what, you may not know why, and you're not sure when, but you know something bad-something terrible-has happend, is happening or is about to happen

Maybe we have been attached to people-living their lives for and through them-for so long that we don't have any life of our own left to live.

I have not added one word of my own to this. This says it all about me and My CD.

Beleive me the whole darn book is nearly yellow from highlighting.

I hope this will help.

Take Care http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1 TEXAN

Dawn! I wasn't comparing you or anyone else in my explanation of codependency. I was merely trying to explain how it operates in its strangest of forms. I used this board as a familiar example... In no way was I referring to you or anyone that I know on this board.

I hope that helps you to understand. Also, buy the book... you'd be surprised at how many of your friends can be found in those pages. Being co-dependent is nothing to be ashamed of. I'm certainly not ashamed... I feel so much better since reading it! I understand me in ways I never did before...and it is a struggle to remove my emotional involvement with people. It has nothing to do with caring for people...it's about control. People control in all sorts of fun ways... the trick is to understand and overcome those controlling issues.


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Gina

Hey Gina -

Oh God - either you misunderstand my post, or I put it out there wrong. I KNOW you weren't talking to or about me. I wouldn't be so self-centered and egotistical to assume that any of your posts are aimed at me. I was talking about your quote and how it pertains to people in general, not how it pertains to me!! I was trying to understand the quote, and how it relates to co-dependency in general as an issue. I understand now that I read your response. Now I understand you were referring to controlling people, not loving or caring for them. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Ya know, I knew when I hit that reply button that my comment could be misconstrued and/or interpreted as me trying to start a catfight or something. I almost edited the whole thing out, but I'm really trying to get a grip on the whole CD vs. Enabling issue. I'm truly sorry if I offended you in anyway.

I am starting to get a grip on the issue. Thanks Tex for that awesome post. Boy, if that doesn't sum it all up, I just don't know what does. I gotta run down to Barnes and Noble tomorrow and grab a copy of that. My mother read it and she swears by it also. Her copy is out on loan. However, she's also Dr. Phil fan. I can tolerate Phil, but he's so dogmatic about some things, especially fat people. OOOOH I just know I'm gonna open a can of worms with that comment. That's ok - bring it on, friends!!

Dawn

[This message has been edited by Dawn in NH (edited 03-18-2003).]

Hi Dawn
I'm glad it helped give you a little bit more understanding.
The questions in the book are the real eye-opener, as you start reading and scoring yourself, be honest, I agree with Gina that it is nothing to be ashamed of.

I don't get thr opportunity to watch Dr. Phil much, the last program I saw tho, he made some sense.

As I used to be heavy, I'm curious now about what his thoughts are on that. Will you fill me in?

Have a Good Day http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif
#1 Texan

I will fill you in on Phil. He is insane, and if you saw a nut like him on the street you would run the other way.

Go for it


#1T

Who's Dr. Phil? (I live in a cave ok?) This is a great thread and since my brain is in nuetral, I am just saying good morning.

I haven't weighed in very much on this topic, because I believe I am codependent, but don't know too much about it.

So you convinced me to buy the book, I just ordered it off amazon, and maybe I'll have more of an opinion once I read it.

Just hope my husband doesn't intercept it in the mail, I believe it would make him feel very threatened (but there I go, being codependent again, right? LOL)

good morning everyone. i just read your post with excerpts. very eye opening. running along those same lines, since DH is getting out today, i think, i'm having problems with reminding myself that i won't be able to change him and to stop obsessing about what may or may not happen. talked to my temporary sponsor last night to thank her for talking me out of drinking monday night and of course this issue came up. basically she said the same thing, you cant change the past and you can worry about the future. the latter is the hardest thing for me. here is my instant gratification deal again! i always need to know whats up and how many balls are in the air for me to catch.
also decided that i need to distance myself from my mother as she is not a very supportive person in that her view is "here's what you should do and if you don't f*** you." gosh, that is kinda how i am. isnt it funny how you are like your parents.
other than being nervous about confronting our problems in our relationship and talking to a counselor, i also have another issue, my father in law is arriving from PA in about an hour. he is in AA, has been for years. while i respect that and know he can be very helpful, i am a little apprehensive & hope he understands that alot of this deal is really between me and DH and nobody else. in fact DH did not call his dad his sister did. another piece of anger i need to let go of.

Lane, if your father in law is someone you like and respect and someone who isn't just "in AA' but someone who works the steps, maybe he will be a help to you in terms of your addiction. As far as the problems with you and DH, that's none of his beeswax unless you want it to be. And if there is trust and communication between you and pop in law, that will be understood. However, don't feel threatened by him wanting to help his son. Any one in recovery is deserving of all the help they can get. If the situation gets sticky between you and the in law, try to keep confrontations away from DH (we never did define DH by the way) and always try to be the grown up. You CAN do this.

Morning everyone -

Blue skies - I was wondering where you've been. How ya doing?

Hey Tex - I am going to the bookstore to get that book on payday. (Friday)

Dr. Phil, for those of you who don't know, is a psychiatrist from Texas who got his big break on Oprah. He was the featured guest every Tuesday on her show, and since the ratings went through the roof every time she had him on, they decided to give him his own show. "They" being Oprah. She owns the show - if you watch the credits after the show, the last thing you see is "A Harpo Production". When he agreed to do the show, he said he would do it as long as his show didn't air in the same time slot as Oprah's anywhere in the country, probably the world. Man - she owns his bald little head!!

Tex, one of his shows was on obesity, and one of the guests made the mistake of mentioning that she had a thyroid problem. Phil, in his boisterous manner bellows out "oh lady, don't give me that medical excuse - you're fat cuz you wanna be!" Needless to say, the guest was reduced to tears! It was at that point that I changed the channel. I am a little on the corpulent side, so I took great offense to this. He does do a lot of good, and he is entertaining most of the time, so I'm not totally with Open Season on this one. He does motivational speaking, and he also has several self help books out. He deals alot with the CD issue, so you guys may wanna check him out at www.drphil.com (http://www.drphil.com)

So Chippie and Tex, does that give you a little info on him at least? Honestly, since he's on at 3 in the afternoon I can't watch the entire show. I'm hooked on General Hospital, and have been watching steadily since 1980 at age 13, and here and there starting in 1975. So, I can only watch Dr. Phil when GH goes to commercial. Watch about 3 minutes of Phil, then back to GH - hey it works for me! I used the word "hooked" loosely - at least I didn't say addicted! I do get withdrawal if I miss GH two days in a row though.

Gee - haven't seen Gina check in yet this morning. She must be at work!

So, that should do it. Have a great day everybody. I'm on my third or fourth day now without sleep (I've lost track - it all feels like one big day) so I'm gonna go lay on the couch and catch a little Springer before work - LOL!! Check out the insane times of all my posts - they occur at all times of the day and night. The last couple of nights have been from around 9pm through 6 am. Then I go to my Fibromyalgia online support group, post and chat there (that board has a chat room)then come back here, check and see if anybody wrote me back, post some more, bla bla bla

Anywho...take good care of yourselves - and eachother - Dawn

[This message has been edited by Dawn in NH (edited 03-19-2003).]

hi chippie,
DH stands for (dear, darling, or dorky(as i think you and gina were giggling about) husband. you see it alot on pregnancy & parenting boards. just got back from a cig break. kinda shaking right now. don't know if its just nerves or w/drawal. went to my md yesterday and he prescribed serrax for these symptoms. i still need togo pick it up. i alson have another appt tom. i do trust dad in law;however, i have a hard time believing that i am worth that support. in the past DH has told me that everyone has had it with me. of course this was at the height of a screaming fight. i also have a hard time letting go of things said to me that were hurtful at the time and tend to put up barriers. i really wish i had the self confidence to stop doing that. intellectually, i know that people really do care, but inside i doubt it. here comes some self pity.... alot of my esteem probs i think stem from an extremely abusive relationship i was in before i met my husband. then again, what do i really know....

Hi Lane -

You used another one the other night.. what was it - oh ya OS - what is OS?

I agree with Chippie totally.

Hang in there girl - you can do it!

Let us know how the counceling goes - good luck with that.

By the way Lane, there's absolutely no question in my mind that you're worth it. You sound like a friendly, intelligent, kind hearted, compassionate, loyal, and long suffering person who has a lot to offer us on the board, and the rest of the world. Walk with your chin up girl!!!

Dawn

[This message has been edited by Dawn in NH (edited 03-19-2003).]

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/round.gif Dawn--Fughetaboudit. You’re fine.

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/idea.gif Tex--What a great passage out of that book to post! Good Girl!

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/nono.gif OPENSEASON!!! Thems Fightin’ words Sir! I would think that given your “straight to the heart of the matter” style that you would have a real appreciation for the man! You know OS… I am beginning to think you know what will push my buttons and you figure out the best way to do it! (Don’t fight your feelings O, I know I stay on your mind night and day… try honey, try, you must let your fantasies go) Hey, but don’t forget to post...I do so enjoy your “quickies”

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bigcry.gif Chippie--Yes Ma’am You DO live in a cave! What PART of Afghanistan??? And a big ol’ Happy Good Mornin’ backatcha!

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif Blue--Good for you little lady! You will really enjoy reading it. Just make sure you understand that some of it may make you feel bad about yourself at times...but that’s only YOU being too hard on yourself (I did that) and once you get through the book...you will treasure that book forever!

LANE--Your FIH sounz like one of them AA Bible Thumpers… They make Dr. Phil look like a wimp! If your FIH puts a couple of cents in places that you would prefer him not to… Tell him! Put him in his place; make him understand that he is a guest in your home and you get to decide (with the DH of course) what is acceptable and what isn’t! And you are sooooo right! It IS between you and the DH… I hope your DH will back you up???
Also, I had to laugh at your comment about the balls in the air. I soooo identify! My feeling is it is a sense of having control over SOMETHING that is what you feel is within your reach. Your need to drink has proven that you have lost that control too many times and it helps to have an understanding and input over the other things in your life. I am horribly insistent over knowing not just how many balls are up there but what colour they are, are they all the same size? Is one softer than the other? Etc... *Sigh* What a struggle that can be.

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/dance.gif AND NOW TO ALL!!! Thanks to the Fine Ms. Number ONE Texan and her lovely inputs to me; I was able to remember some things about myself that I’d forgotten…and right then and there I decided it was time to start seeing my counselor again. I haven’t seen him since my back departed last year in January. I have an appt with him at 3:15 today… this is truly soooo damn WONDERFUL! He will certainly be influential with my self-inflicted detox and (pray for me please) recovery. Why I didn’t think to do this before is beyond me...but I do be a doofy one at times!

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wave.gif TEX--You are the best!

Y’all have a lovely; I think I’ll pay attention to da man on da tube… the Honourable Dr. Phil !!! (stick it in yer ear OS)

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Gina

thanks dawn. i dont know what OS is. ive seen gina, tex, and maybe chippie use it. i think its someones name. thinking of everyone today. thanks again for the vote of confidence!! really needed it!

OS stands for OpenSeason... his name is too long to have to type sometimes.

------------------
Gina

And SO is significant other. Lane, YOU ARE WORTHY AND DESERVING OF SUPPORT!! Screw anyone who says anything else. And I am guessing that he said they were fed up mostly because being where he was in his own addiction. Addicts can be real turds sometimes. (I LIVE WITH ONE HENCE MY OBSERVATION)

Chippie Chippie Chippie Chippie Chippie Chippie

Girl!!! In THIS case SO is openseason! You just gotta argue with me! You are just too cool! I like you..

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Gina

SO not OS silly thing! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Oh... I knew that! Bad Chippie BAD! Only I get to point out my faults! Silly girl!

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Gina

y'all are great! wish me luck. 10 minutes til i leave here to pick him up. got the worst butterflies in my stomach...my nerves are sooo shot! I WANT MY HUSBAND BACK!!!!! so much work to do. here i go again obsessing about when change will happen. i can actually laugh at myself today though.

Deep breaths girlfriend. You are a great and worthy person who deserves to love and be loved.

thanks chippie
signing off now. gotta go. to the restroom in this instance and then out the door(lol). have a great afternoon & night. if i get my puter fixed at home, i'll try to get on tonight
later,
lane

Just a few thoughts

OS: If I saw YOU on the street I would run. learn some Tact! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/hammer.gif

Blueskies: I am glad to see you back http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif If he does intercept the mail, can you tell him you think it's an interesting subject that you wanted to read up on. I'm sure he has things that interest him but not you.

Lane: I wish you and yours the best, hang tuff! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Dawn: I hope the book will help to answer All your questions.

Gina, You are one fine person, you will be OK.
Thanks for the kind words.

#1 Texan

As far as co dependency.. no one can drive U crazy unless U give them the keys and red transmission fluid.



[This message has been edited by openseason (edited 03-20-2003).]

OS, I'm afraid you've been drinking way too much this eve... Shirley you have lost the last marble of thy brain. This doth saddens me. I wish you well love.

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Gina

I just got my copy of the book at lunch, and forgot to eat because I immediately started reading it. I didn't want to go back to work, I felt like I could just sit there and read it cover to cover this afternoon.

I really hope I learn something about myself, and learn a way to not be codependent anymore. Already, I've got lots of questions for my parents, I feel like I can trace it back to them but don't know how THEY ended up that way.

I'm still worried about my husband's reaction to the book, but I left it on the table where he would probably see it, just because I didn't feel like hiding it. But I wonder if his reaction will be worth taking a "stand" over it. And I didn't get to the part in the book that will hopefully help answer some of these questions LOL

Thanks for this topic guys, I hope it will help me.

Hi Blueskies
I'm glad to hear you have been reading. If you haven't yet, answer the questions for yourself before talking to your parents to see how you feel first.

I hope your H doesn't hit the roof, I think he should be proud if you want to help yourself, but I do know how the Drinking Husband can be.

Keep us posted.

Take care #1T

While reading the book, I was able to see where my mom's codependency began. I also saw my best friend in the book and bought her a copy to read. I've given the book to several friends as gifts and they were helped tremendously.

Blue, I'm glad that you are reading it...you will feel better about yourself once you are finished with it. Good for you!!!

------------------
Gina

Thanks Tex, I will keep you updated on my progress. I hope I have the chance to read some tonight.

Blueskies
I have something on my mind http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/idea.gif

Tex

LOL... Look out Blue! I feel the texanvirginian thing coming soon to a post near you!

Tex...yes? No? Maybe? http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

Goober luvs ya!

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Gina

Wow, Texan directed me to this thread and I can really see how I am a co-dependent/enabler. I do try to fix my b/f's problems (see my boyfriend's an addict post). He doesn't ask for money but I give it to him and I also provide him with excuses for his parents or try to talk to his mom in advance so that she would go easy on him. This is defnitely not good for him nor me. I guess I have to realize that I can do all of these things but it's on him to get better. I can support his recovery but not dictate it.

It's funny because when this most recent relapse happened I was upset and angry at him for not trying--feeling as though if he really loved me he would try harder but it's not about me and his feelings for me, it's about him and his addiction.

Part of my rationale for my co-dependency is that as a "good g/f" I need to help him. But I think that makes him feel worse when he runs away. For example, feeling like he's not good enough for me and thinking that I hate him can all be a part of the way I must make him feel by me being a co-dependent.

I do have a question though (which I probably should get the book and read about..but I'll go to the bookstore tomorrow), where is the boaderline between being co-dependent and just being supportive? For example, when he tells me that he thinks that I hate him...I should say no, etc. and that everything's fine..but not that i'll help him through this? Should it be more like you need to help yourself?

It's about dealing with your emotions and letting him face his problems head on without having you soften the blows. During my drinking, I certainly pulled out the big guns and got others to help me keep my fridge stocked in beer. I knew that if they wouldn't do those things for me; I would have had to whatever myself which may have kept me from doing it in the first place. Sounds cryptic but it's the best way that I can describe this.
I believe if you read the book you'll have a much better understanding and it should help you to see the ways that you help keep him where he is. Your support for him is warranted when he actually faces his problem and works to rid himself of it. But don't continue to make it easier for him to use/drink anymore. He's doing it to himself and he uses you to help him stay addicted.
You'll understand more once you read the book. It is extremely well-written and you'll have no problem understanding what you should and shouldn't do.
Let us know how it works out for you once you've read it... (and during)

------------------
Gina

Tex!

I have been reading. I spent a sober day yesterday, so I actually had some time to read. I guess I'm about half way through the book. I haven't done any of the exercises yet, my plan is to read it thru once, and then go back and re-read it and do all the exercises. I know that if I am really going to become "undependent" (see, I HAVE been reading!!), it is going to take alot of time and work, but I am willing to do it.

Besides, I seem to have nothing but time on my hands when I'm not drinking, so it will give me a good reason not to have that first beer when I get home.

Hi Blue

I'm glad your doing well and the reading is occuping your time.

Keep in touch.

#1T

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 04-01-2003).]

I think I did something bad today but in my heart I felt it was good. BTW, I didn't get to purchase the book yet...I'm going to but I won't get paid until Thursday and I have to pay rent with the money that I have...anywho...

My b/f has given me his bank card and pin number after the first time second or third time he relapsed. I figured that he's been living off of the money in his account so today I took whatever was left out of both of his accounts...which wasn't much considering what he previously had. My theory is that this will draw him out and back home to his mom and me. I know some of you might say that this is classic co-dependency and that I shouldn't do this but I couldn't figure out how else to get him to come back. In the past, he came back becuase he ran out of money. I also figured that if he was arrested for doing something illegal to get money that at least he would be in police custody...but I doubt that will happen. I think today when he tries to write himself a check or make a withdrawal at the teller they will tell him that he has no dough and he'll freak and snap back.

I'm wrong right?

I think I did it...his cell phone is ringing now...that might be a sign that he'll be back soon...

I'm still wrong right???

halfpin,
Nobody else can tell you that you are wrong. It is up to you how you want to handle your boyfriend. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers, and no one else know's whats in your heart or head.

I feel for you, and I hope your b/f comes home safe, if that is what you want.

Halfpin
I see you doing the sames things that I did when I was married to an alcoholic. I would do everything I could possibly think of to get him not to drink that first beer when he came home, and it just never did work.

He was addicted as is your BF, and from my own experiences with this he will not stop until he recognizes what he is doing to himself.

When I look back at the things I did or didn't do to try and fix him, I see things in me that I don't like.

CD no More helped me a lot, but there are still issues that I have and a lot of it stems from being with an alcoholic father and husband, total of 36 years.

I am sure there are circumstances that you have chose not to reveal here in this forum, and I respect that.

You have to take care of you.

Blue is right, no one can tell you what or what not to do.

I sincerly hope he gets home safely too.

Take care #1Texan http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

blueskies

Were you able to see my post to you before I edited it?

I really am pushing for ya girl, it's not something you can get over overnight, but to be able to recognize the sighn and then not act on them is a huge step in itself.

#1T

Thanks Texan. I guess it's hard becuase I can see that he's a good person when he's not doing this to himself. I've never seen him high or whatever but whenever he comes back he says..."i have to stop this...it's not helping me..i love you, i don't want to lose you...this will make me lose you..so i know i have to stop." I know i'm trying to control his behavior by taking his money from him and I can see that it's wrong.

I don't have anyone in my family who's an addict that I have come encountered with (meaning I guess there are some but I've never seen them or dealt with them). All I know is that almost 1 year ago, i met this wonderful man who's been meant so much to me and that feels about me the way I feel about him and I can't stand to lose that wonderful person.

I have a friend whose mother went through this and she told me that I cannot change him at all...that I cannot make choices for him but I can make a choice for myself and that if I choose to stay...I choose to accept this part of him. She also said that she's never seen me happier than I am when I'm with him and that if I feel like fighting and if I can deal with it...I should fight for him.

His phone ended up being turned off again and it's snowing here...again, I'm hoping that this will draw him out but he could find shelter somewhere.

I'm grateful for the all of the advice that you guys are giving me and appreciate this forum to vent my fustrations, etc. I'm still crying but I guess that's my choice. I could walk away but I'm afraid that if I do...I'll lose this wonderful man forever.

Please get the book. There's a chapter on boundries

"I've learned to stop incessantly controlling and taking care of others."

"I've learned that if what others do hurts me or feels wrong, I can walk away or figure out how to take care of myself. I've devoloped clearer ideas about what is and isn't my responsibility"

Tex


[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 04-01-2003).]

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by halfpin21 (edited 04-01-2003).]

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 04-01-2003).]

http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by halfpin21 (edited 04-01-2003).]

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 04-01-2003).]

No Tex, I didn't see it. What was it?

halfpin,
I feel the same way about my husband, he is the most fantastic person in the world, when he's not drinking. I said this to my mom one day, and she responded: "Honey, you deserve to be with someone that is fantastic ALL of the time"

I think about that quote alot, even though I am still with my husband and love him very much.

Tex, I got the same idea in codependent no more last night. The author referred to the fact that codependents, especially those in a relationships with an alcoholic, put up with behavior that the normal population would never even consider.

It's really interesting.

halfpin, I can tell by your posts how worried you are. I hope that he comes back soon, because I understand that no matter what you choose to do in the long run, you still love this guy and worry for his safety.

Hang in there halfpin. I, too, have taken away my husband's debit card, checks, cell phone, etc. etc. to try and prevent or control his using. But to no avail. I've done some crazy things and played some dangerous games over the years. If my husband is going to use drugs, that's his choice and I cannot do anything about it. Period. It was really hard to get that through my thick head (I still think I can stop him sometimes)! Codependent No More is an awesome book and maybe setting some boundaries with your boyfriend will help . . . but that's your choice. Good luck . . . sounds like you're on the right track to recovery!

Thanks you guys...I'm actually doing better..not crying as much:

It's funny because I never asked him to give me his card. He decided to give it to me himself. He also willingly gave me his pin without me asking. I felt uncomfortable but he thought that this was the best way to control his spending...except that now he realizes he can write checks to himself (i say now realizes b/c he never had a checking account before he met me...I introduced him to a lot of things throughout the course of our relationship). I was thinking recently...what if I take away his check book..but again, that's outrageous because if he wants to he'll find away. We'll see if what happens now that I have his money. Part of me doing that too was so that he would have something when he comes back.

bumping for JayLynn

Angie, Have a look at this thread, this is where I should have gone in the first place.

Tex

[This message has been edited by #1Texan (edited 05-29-2003).]