burgeke
01-14-2003, 10:03 AM
Well today I had my visit with the ENT. This was the first time I saw him. He had no additional insight into my problem. He also did not think it was TMJ. He said that TMJ and my inflammation near the ears resulting in infections was in no way related to TMJ. He said that TMJ can not cause these symptoms. This amazes me. There is so much information to the contrary but yet I continue to find info that states what he said.
So after 8 or so visits to my allergist, now 1 to an ENT, I am in the same position - no answers.
The ENT wants me to have a hearing test because of my underwater feeling over the last six months. What do you all think? Is this needed?
In addition, he said that if this annoys me enough that we can try injections directly into the sinuses once a week for a month. Anyone have any clue what these are?
He then mentioned that if all else fails, we talk of surgery to open up the ears. AGHGHGH
At anyrate, thanks for letting me vent!
Keith
So after 8 or so visits to my allergist, now 1 to an ENT, I am in the same position - no answers.
The ENT wants me to have a hearing test because of my underwater feeling over the last six months. What do you all think? Is this needed?
In addition, he said that if this annoys me enough that we can try injections directly into the sinuses once a week for a month. Anyone have any clue what these are?
He then mentioned that if all else fails, we talk of surgery to open up the ears. AGHGHGH
At anyrate, thanks for letting me vent!
Keith
Sponsor
MichaelV
01-14-2003, 11:56 AM
Funny enough, I went to see an ENT today and was told virtually the same thing. My problem is mainly intermittent vertigo attacks.
As I stated in an article I published on here some while ago, there is a real gap between what ENTs think are related symptoms and what are not - and the research and experience of those who suffer tmj problems.
His view, because my vertigo lasts for a few hours, that Ihave a mild form of a Menieres type condition. He did hearing and tympanic pressure tests today - all normal. And so this is the usual course, no obvious otological problem, therefore, go away and live with it. I will have some balance tests later.
He almost resolutely refuses to accept that tmj affects balance and ears. He considers that the anatomy is just not related enough to warrant consideration. Many of us here know different of course. He was prepared to accept that my neck injuries of old may be a factor becuase of the proprioceptive mechanisms in the neck, - but of course, the neck muscles link to the jaw muscles etc etc. And he was also dismissive of the mechanism of spinal fluid being affected. Anyway, I sort of knew this would be the outcome of this visit so am not too surprised.
My next step will be an oral surgeon I suspect or just continue with my osteopath and GP for symptomatic relief.
As I stated in an article I published on here some while ago, there is a real gap between what ENTs think are related symptoms and what are not - and the research and experience of those who suffer tmj problems.
His view, because my vertigo lasts for a few hours, that Ihave a mild form of a Menieres type condition. He did hearing and tympanic pressure tests today - all normal. And so this is the usual course, no obvious otological problem, therefore, go away and live with it. I will have some balance tests later.
He almost resolutely refuses to accept that tmj affects balance and ears. He considers that the anatomy is just not related enough to warrant consideration. Many of us here know different of course. He was prepared to accept that my neck injuries of old may be a factor becuase of the proprioceptive mechanisms in the neck, - but of course, the neck muscles link to the jaw muscles etc etc. And he was also dismissive of the mechanism of spinal fluid being affected. Anyway, I sort of knew this would be the outcome of this visit so am not too surprised.
My next step will be an oral surgeon I suspect or just continue with my osteopath and GP for symptomatic relief.
Cymy Sue
01-14-2003, 03:33 PM
Burgeke,
I have had at least 5 ENT's, my former Oral Surgeon, and numerous others in the Medical Profession tell me in the last couple of years that my advanced TMJD has nothing to do with my eyes, nose, ears, neck, back, etc. (All causing problems)
I recently saw a neurotologist that told me that the TMJD was the cause of all of my ear problems and explained in detail the connection. I have found an ENT that specializes in nasal problems and he says the nerve damage I have from TMJD surgeries have caused my nasal problems (I had surgery to correct this). I just went for an evaluation for a Sleep Study (I have trouble breathing at night with no apparent cause.) The Sleep Specialist believes that the TMJD is the reason, due to muscle fatigue in my throat. That's a little simply put, but his theory made sense. I'm having a sleep study next week, so I will let you know.
I've been doing a lot of research regarding eye, ear, & nasal problems for the last couple of weeks and as soon as I can condense the information I've found, I'll post it. If you've read some of my posts, they can be a little long and I have a lot of information to share. I ran across a study from a Swedish Univ. that has some incredible information regarding ear problems, tinnitus, sinus problems, muscle involvement and the relation to the TM joints and muscles of mastication.
Also, most of what I read on the net, lists congestion, ear fullness and most of the other things you've mentioned as being TMJD related.
All I can tell you is, "MOST DOCTORS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ AND THEY DO NOT LISTEN TO THEIR PATIENTS."
Cymy Sue
I have had at least 5 ENT's, my former Oral Surgeon, and numerous others in the Medical Profession tell me in the last couple of years that my advanced TMJD has nothing to do with my eyes, nose, ears, neck, back, etc. (All causing problems)
I recently saw a neurotologist that told me that the TMJD was the cause of all of my ear problems and explained in detail the connection. I have found an ENT that specializes in nasal problems and he says the nerve damage I have from TMJD surgeries have caused my nasal problems (I had surgery to correct this). I just went for an evaluation for a Sleep Study (I have trouble breathing at night with no apparent cause.) The Sleep Specialist believes that the TMJD is the reason, due to muscle fatigue in my throat. That's a little simply put, but his theory made sense. I'm having a sleep study next week, so I will let you know.
I've been doing a lot of research regarding eye, ear, & nasal problems for the last couple of weeks and as soon as I can condense the information I've found, I'll post it. If you've read some of my posts, they can be a little long and I have a lot of information to share. I ran across a study from a Swedish Univ. that has some incredible information regarding ear problems, tinnitus, sinus problems, muscle involvement and the relation to the TM joints and muscles of mastication.
Also, most of what I read on the net, lists congestion, ear fullness and most of the other things you've mentioned as being TMJD related.
All I can tell you is, "MOST DOCTORS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ AND THEY DO NOT LISTEN TO THEIR PATIENTS."
Cymy Sue
MichaelV
01-14-2003, 04:40 PM
Sue
Maybe I will post the article I wrote again. In fact, I think it is still on here somewhere (can anyone less lazy than me help!?). The problem is a sort of medical provincialism. They have a knowledge gap. Much of the anatomy involved is miniscule and they just do not recognise it. This was amply demonstrated by my (very reputable apparently) ENT today. It is hard to argue anatomy with a senior consultant physician! BUt I knew he was talking ****.
Maybe I will post the article I wrote again. In fact, I think it is still on here somewhere (can anyone less lazy than me help!?). The problem is a sort of medical provincialism. They have a knowledge gap. Much of the anatomy involved is miniscule and they just do not recognise it. This was amply demonstrated by my (very reputable apparently) ENT today. It is hard to argue anatomy with a senior consultant physician! BUt I knew he was talking ****.
Jill J
01-14-2003, 08:39 PM
I am so sorry you guys are having problems with your ENT, when in fact it was ENT who diagnosed my TMJ. I went to him because I had a ringing in my ear for weeks, no jaw pain at the time......he checked my ears did all the ent stuff then asked me to open my mouth.....boy the pop that came outta that baby threw him back and the deviation that I have on my right side. What you might want to try is asking for a referral from you TMJ specialist, they know who's who in the TMJ world.
Best of Luck, Jill
Best of Luck, Jill
MichaelV
01-14-2003, 08:52 PM
Thanks jill
Thing is, I KNEW that this would be the likely outcome. I do not blame him really. His focus is entirelyon ENT issues and to some extent this is good...he is not being distracted and is looking for the serious things.
I will also be moving on to a tmj specialist. I know from my osteopath - who has all seeing hands! - that I have a tmj, other strutcural throat and ear problems, that my jaw pops and deviates to the right uite severely. I also know what set me on this path...one was the tooth extraction, but the other was an oral device I wore at night for year to stop snoring. It basically prevents your bottom jaw from dropping back during sleep and occluding your airway. It worked a dream on teh snoring...but every morning I awoker with terrible painin my lowr fron teeth whcih had taken the strain all night and terribly displaced tmjs which would pop, crack and crunch for an hour or two after I woke up. That certianly did some damage.
Thing is, I KNEW that this would be the likely outcome. I do not blame him really. His focus is entirelyon ENT issues and to some extent this is good...he is not being distracted and is looking for the serious things.
I will also be moving on to a tmj specialist. I know from my osteopath - who has all seeing hands! - that I have a tmj, other strutcural throat and ear problems, that my jaw pops and deviates to the right uite severely. I also know what set me on this path...one was the tooth extraction, but the other was an oral device I wore at night for year to stop snoring. It basically prevents your bottom jaw from dropping back during sleep and occluding your airway. It worked a dream on teh snoring...but every morning I awoker with terrible painin my lowr fron teeth whcih had taken the strain all night and terribly displaced tmjs which would pop, crack and crunch for an hour or two after I woke up. That certianly did some damage.
Jill J
01-14-2003, 09:24 PM
Michael,
Please let me know what kind of treatments are offered to you. The treatment I'm receiving is OK but I would like to see if there is anything else out there. I would love to get the spasms in my right temple under control and also work on the deviation I have when I open my mouth. I got my referral to PT but my primary doctor will not send me to the PT guy that my TMJ specialist wanted me to see. Again the HMO thing. The specialist knows this guy and the work he has done with TMJ patients. My PCP sent me to a place that has NEVER worked with TMJ patients, so now I'm stuck in the healthcare hell trying to get this all together. Luckily I am in the process of changing my health insurance so hopefully PCP will send me to the PT guy I want to see.......Please keep us updated also everyone else out there that maybe trying something different in treatment......Thanks......Jill
Please let me know what kind of treatments are offered to you. The treatment I'm receiving is OK but I would like to see if there is anything else out there. I would love to get the spasms in my right temple under control and also work on the deviation I have when I open my mouth. I got my referral to PT but my primary doctor will not send me to the PT guy that my TMJ specialist wanted me to see. Again the HMO thing. The specialist knows this guy and the work he has done with TMJ patients. My PCP sent me to a place that has NEVER worked with TMJ patients, so now I'm stuck in the healthcare hell trying to get this all together. Luckily I am in the process of changing my health insurance so hopefully PCP will send me to the PT guy I want to see.......Please keep us updated also everyone else out there that maybe trying something different in treatment......Thanks......Jill
MichaelV
01-15-2003, 03:56 AM
Jill
Sorry to hear you are having the problems with insureres.
It is well known that for general relief from symptoms and to for long term correction I firmly believe in osteopaths and in particular cranial osteopaths.
Sorry to hear you are having the problems with insureres.
It is well known that for general relief from symptoms and to for long term correction I firmly believe in osteopaths and in particular cranial osteopaths.
burgeke
01-15-2003, 08:34 AM
Thanks everyone!
This is easy enough to peg regardless of the ENT's opinion. Last night I ate some rather tough fried chicken. I went to sleep feeling rather well for a change! I had some pressure but it was minimal. This morning, WHAM! Back to the same ol story.
This is easy enough to peg regardless of the ENT's opinion. Last night I ate some rather tough fried chicken. I went to sleep feeling rather well for a change! I had some pressure but it was minimal. This morning, WHAM! Back to the same ol story.
IngridTheGreat
01-16-2003, 09:48 AM
I've been diagnosed with TMJ and have a couple of questions.
First, I can't find info on the approximate prices of NTIs. Although I know that they will be worth it (considering I'm at the onset and was diagnosed with it at the early stages), I don't know if $1000 for an NTI is too expensive. That's not including the $100 adjustment fees for each adjustment visit.
I just got my teeth whitened and for another dentist to take a mold of my entire teeth (with whitener) was $250. Why would just getting a mold (from my TMJ, Head, Neck, Facial Pain Dentist ) of the front teeth be 4 times as expensive?
Second, what are the adjustments on NTIs? Isn't it just a tray to prevent your back teeth from clenching? Is it like adjustments on your car's alignment?
Third, I haven't read in these boards that people wear their NTIs during the day. But my dentist said that I could. Is there a reason why I shouldn't?
Thanks!
Ingrid.
First, I can't find info on the approximate prices of NTIs. Although I know that they will be worth it (considering I'm at the onset and was diagnosed with it at the early stages), I don't know if $1000 for an NTI is too expensive. That's not including the $100 adjustment fees for each adjustment visit.
I just got my teeth whitened and for another dentist to take a mold of my entire teeth (with whitener) was $250. Why would just getting a mold (from my TMJ, Head, Neck, Facial Pain Dentist ) of the front teeth be 4 times as expensive?
Second, what are the adjustments on NTIs? Isn't it just a tray to prevent your back teeth from clenching? Is it like adjustments on your car's alignment?
Third, I haven't read in these boards that people wear their NTIs during the day. But my dentist said that I could. Is there a reason why I shouldn't?
Thanks!
Ingrid.
Cymy Sue
01-17-2003, 06:06 AM
Hi Ingrid,
Four years ago, the NTI in Alabama was $325.00.
I was told I could wear it anytime that I was inclined to "clench". At night, of course, and in my case, when I drive. It helped at first a little, but then started to cause pain. I am a long term sufferer with a lot of irreversible damage. They know now that this category of people usually don't do very well with the device.
My Dentist/TMJD Specialist has been wearing one for several years. He clenches and has "some" joint pain.
He says for early diagnosed cases (with no disc displacement) it is a good Device for many. But like all treatments, it does not work for everyone.
It has worked wonders for him.
The adjustments would be to "shave it down". I think most Dentists now realize that they may have been keeping our teeth or bite too far apart. I see a lot of posts regarding splints being to thick. With a lot of TMJ problems, a very thin splint is what's needed.
I'm not sure where you are, but $1000.00 seems a little high. Maybe some others will post what they have paid.
Good Luck,
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 01-17-2003).]
Four years ago, the NTI in Alabama was $325.00.
I was told I could wear it anytime that I was inclined to "clench". At night, of course, and in my case, when I drive. It helped at first a little, but then started to cause pain. I am a long term sufferer with a lot of irreversible damage. They know now that this category of people usually don't do very well with the device.
My Dentist/TMJD Specialist has been wearing one for several years. He clenches and has "some" joint pain.
He says for early diagnosed cases (with no disc displacement) it is a good Device for many. But like all treatments, it does not work for everyone.
It has worked wonders for him.
The adjustments would be to "shave it down". I think most Dentists now realize that they may have been keeping our teeth or bite too far apart. I see a lot of posts regarding splints being to thick. With a lot of TMJ problems, a very thin splint is what's needed.
I'm not sure where you are, but $1000.00 seems a little high. Maybe some others will post what they have paid.
Good Luck,
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 01-17-2003).]
angel444
01-18-2003, 06:54 PM
Could you please share with me the connection between tmj and the ears i have been in agony with my ears and throat pulling tight and doctor says its anxiety
i get ringing in ears pulling feeling from ears to throat that makes my throat feel like its being strangled plus so much pressure in ears and a lumpy sensation when i swallow i keep wanting to open my mouth real wide to relieve the pressure but this seems to make it worse
love to hear more
angel
i get ringing in ears pulling feeling from ears to throat that makes my throat feel like its being strangled plus so much pressure in ears and a lumpy sensation when i swallow i keep wanting to open my mouth real wide to relieve the pressure but this seems to make it worse
love to hear more
angel
MichaelV
01-18-2003, 08:19 PM
THere are lots of websites around Angel.
Just put "tmj/tinnitus" into a search engine and see what comes up.
There are close associations with the anatomy of the tmj and functions of the ears. The tensions, pressures and other effects on tiny muscles and nerves can make thing svery uncomfortable in the ears and throat. THere is a fissure behind the joint (petrotympanic) through which nerves and blood vessels supplying the ear drum run. There are other musslces too (these are very small structures) which control eustachian tubes for example. There is the sternocleidomastoid which if under tension can affect structures beneath it - particularly the hyoid bone in you throat. There is much to think about!
However, not many ENTS believe it!
Just put "tmj/tinnitus" into a search engine and see what comes up.
There are close associations with the anatomy of the tmj and functions of the ears. The tensions, pressures and other effects on tiny muscles and nerves can make thing svery uncomfortable in the ears and throat. THere is a fissure behind the joint (petrotympanic) through which nerves and blood vessels supplying the ear drum run. There are other musslces too (these are very small structures) which control eustachian tubes for example. There is the sternocleidomastoid which if under tension can affect structures beneath it - particularly the hyoid bone in you throat. There is much to think about!
However, not many ENTS believe it!
burgeke
01-19-2003, 10:29 AM
Hmm could have swore I replied this morning.
MichaelV,
As I mentioned before, I have direct experience with ENTs not wanting to accept TMJ as an answer. Mine said they were in no way related.
I went to the dentist yesterday and was diagnosed with TMJD. I also need some dental work. A crown (that should have been done years ago) and the replacement of a couple fillings. He told me to take Motrin and heat treatment until we can get he dental work completed. At that time he will make a night guard. We'll see!
The only relief I get is to eat light and soft. The heat seems to help as well.
MichaelV,
As I mentioned before, I have direct experience with ENTs not wanting to accept TMJ as an answer. Mine said they were in no way related.
I went to the dentist yesterday and was diagnosed with TMJD. I also need some dental work. A crown (that should have been done years ago) and the replacement of a couple fillings. He told me to take Motrin and heat treatment until we can get he dental work completed. At that time he will make a night guard. We'll see!
The only relief I get is to eat light and soft. The heat seems to help as well.
IngridTheGreat
01-19-2003, 11:38 AM
Yup... I had the same experience with an ENT.
Not that I can speak for all ENT's, but when I went in to treat my tinnitus, they gave me a hearing test (I'm now on the low side of normal), diagnosed me with "unspecified tinnitus", gave me a pamphlet and sent me on my way.
FORTUNATELY! The pamphlet indicated that one of the causes to tinnitus could be TMJ... so since I knew that I had that for years (self diagnosed since I got headaches from chewing gum), I tried to find a specialist on the internet. And the only specialist I could find was a dentist that focuses on HEAD/NECK/FACIAL PAIN with an emphasis in TMJ.
Be careful, I called around to a dozen dentists. And although they can treat you for it, I didn't feel comfortable with someone that didn't specialize in it (since I thought that ENT could do something about it).
Think about it, do ya want to see a doctor who treats TMJ patients once or twice a month, or several times a day. My preference is the latter.
Although it's been posted before, for your convenience, here are two VERY helpful websites:
http://www.aacfp.org/
http://www.aaop.org/patient_info.htm
But then again, maybe you'll have better luck with the ENT. Good luck either way :)
Ingrid.
Not that I can speak for all ENT's, but when I went in to treat my tinnitus, they gave me a hearing test (I'm now on the low side of normal), diagnosed me with "unspecified tinnitus", gave me a pamphlet and sent me on my way.
FORTUNATELY! The pamphlet indicated that one of the causes to tinnitus could be TMJ... so since I knew that I had that for years (self diagnosed since I got headaches from chewing gum), I tried to find a specialist on the internet. And the only specialist I could find was a dentist that focuses on HEAD/NECK/FACIAL PAIN with an emphasis in TMJ.
Be careful, I called around to a dozen dentists. And although they can treat you for it, I didn't feel comfortable with someone that didn't specialize in it (since I thought that ENT could do something about it).
Think about it, do ya want to see a doctor who treats TMJ patients once or twice a month, or several times a day. My preference is the latter.
Although it's been posted before, for your convenience, here are two VERY helpful websites:
http://www.aacfp.org/
http://www.aaop.org/patient_info.htm
But then again, maybe you'll have better luck with the ENT. Good luck either way :)
Ingrid.