Elaine
03-26-2003, 12:48 AM
If you try to replace a TM Joint with a synthetic device without first balancing the jaw by balancing the occlusion, you are only inviting trouble. There is an old cliché that is a part of a doctor's rule in adjusting occlusion: “When muscle and bone get into a war (conflict), muscle always wins.” There is not doubt about this. This why TM joint implants get shoved into the head so to speak. There is a new TMJ implant (FDA approved), that is rigidly attached to the ramus (the part of the jaw that is hold the condyles), that replaces the condyle. The socket is replaced with a rigidly secured fuss, both made of metal. The muscles of mastication can move the fossea and reshape the mandible over time muscle always win. Because clenching causes the need for joint replacement, clenching will destroy the synthetic joint in time. If the clenching could be stopped or the jaw could be balanced, the synthetic joint might work. But, it would better if the jaw was balanced before joint replacement to make sure that the body could not restore health.
The problem is, that most surgeons don't know how to balance a jaw in the first place. But surely, a jaw that was giving problems because of clenching trauma on an unbalanced-occlusion, cannot be happy with a synthetic joint. TMJ pain could be even worse.
When we compare the replacement of say a hip joint with a TM Joint, there is no comparison. The hip will work most of the time because the hip-joint is not over worked, but the TM joint won't work because it will be over worked via clenching. The clenching won't stop until the jaw is balanced. A TM joint replacement will not in itself, balance the jaw, which was the problem in the first place. So, beware of joint replacement.
The problem is, that most surgeons don't know how to balance a jaw in the first place. But surely, a jaw that was giving problems because of clenching trauma on an unbalanced-occlusion, cannot be happy with a synthetic joint. TMJ pain could be even worse.
When we compare the replacement of say a hip joint with a TM Joint, there is no comparison. The hip will work most of the time because the hip-joint is not over worked, but the TM joint won't work because it will be over worked via clenching. The clenching won't stop until the jaw is balanced. A TM joint replacement will not in itself, balance the jaw, which was the problem in the first place. So, beware of joint replacement.
Sponsor
Carey
03-26-2003, 02:51 AM
Hi Elaine,
good to see you are back on this board. i haven't checked this site for a very long time. how are you going?
My tmj update: well i finally found a great surgeon who i trust and who has done many surgeries of my type. so in january i had tmj arthroscopy to remove debri from my joint as well as scar tissue but once he was in there the scope was faulty and would not work. the surgeon tried for an hour to try to get it work but no go. so he couldnt do anything, not even remove any of the debri. i was in absolute agony and could not even manage liquids as moving my lips was just so painful, but you would know the story.
I am scheduled to have another scope done and this time it better work, it has to and hopefully i will come out better and maybe i will be able to un lock my jaw.
can you believe it has been 3 years that my jaw has been locked shut with an opening of still 5mm?
Take care,
Carey
good to see you are back on this board. i haven't checked this site for a very long time. how are you going?
My tmj update: well i finally found a great surgeon who i trust and who has done many surgeries of my type. so in january i had tmj arthroscopy to remove debri from my joint as well as scar tissue but once he was in there the scope was faulty and would not work. the surgeon tried for an hour to try to get it work but no go. so he couldnt do anything, not even remove any of the debri. i was in absolute agony and could not even manage liquids as moving my lips was just so painful, but you would know the story.
I am scheduled to have another scope done and this time it better work, it has to and hopefully i will come out better and maybe i will be able to un lock my jaw.
can you believe it has been 3 years that my jaw has been locked shut with an opening of still 5mm?
Take care,
Carey
Cymy Sue
03-26-2003, 06:16 AM
Hi Elaine,
This is a wonderful explanation of synthetic joint replacement. Have you read anything about a complete replacement prosthesis, that's supposed to be an exact replica of your original TMJ "apparatus" (for lack of a better word) from ear to ear? Both were offered to me a few years ago by a very aggressive surgeon, the latter at that time, still in the "experimental" category. I was told I would possibly have better function, but could have an increase in pain, so I declined. I have not really researched any of this stuff in a while and as you know, was told about 6 months ago, I was not a good candidate for any of these procedures due to prior surgical damage.
I was just curious about what types of implants and prosthesis they are doing now.
Also, I wanted to ask if you think there is anybody "out there" that truly has had good and lasting results with any of these procedures, including the Arthroscopic surgeries.
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I've wondered for a long time if we are a small group who have had bad experiences with surgery or if the TMJ is a joint that is not understood and cannot be "fixed" surgically.
I was under the impression before I found this board, that those of us who had surgeries in the 80's & 90's were the "lab rats" and by now these procedures would be working. It appears from most current posts, these people are having the same problem. One surgery leads to another and another and..........
Do you think these Surgeons believe they can fix this joint?
Why do they keep doing these "Scope Procedures" that give a couple of years of relief for most?
And again, are we a minority? Do these procedures really work for some?
Have you seen any statistics on successes?
Glad you're posting again,
Cymy Sue
This is a wonderful explanation of synthetic joint replacement. Have you read anything about a complete replacement prosthesis, that's supposed to be an exact replica of your original TMJ "apparatus" (for lack of a better word) from ear to ear? Both were offered to me a few years ago by a very aggressive surgeon, the latter at that time, still in the "experimental" category. I was told I would possibly have better function, but could have an increase in pain, so I declined. I have not really researched any of this stuff in a while and as you know, was told about 6 months ago, I was not a good candidate for any of these procedures due to prior surgical damage.
I was just curious about what types of implants and prosthesis they are doing now.
Also, I wanted to ask if you think there is anybody "out there" that truly has had good and lasting results with any of these procedures, including the Arthroscopic surgeries.
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I've wondered for a long time if we are a small group who have had bad experiences with surgery or if the TMJ is a joint that is not understood and cannot be "fixed" surgically.
I was under the impression before I found this board, that those of us who had surgeries in the 80's & 90's were the "lab rats" and by now these procedures would be working. It appears from most current posts, these people are having the same problem. One surgery leads to another and another and..........
Do you think these Surgeons believe they can fix this joint?
Why do they keep doing these "Scope Procedures" that give a couple of years of relief for most?
And again, are we a minority? Do these procedures really work for some?
Have you seen any statistics on successes?
Glad you're posting again,
Cymy Sue
autumn83175
03-26-2003, 08:31 AM
Sue,
I am scheduled for bilateral joint replacements tomorrow. I am getting TMJ IMPLANTS, INC custom made total replacements. They have a pretty nice website with lots of information. There is also a site for TMJ Concepts, another commonly used replacement. I recently found a site for a northeastern US university hospital, I believe it is using a type called the Hoffman model. I have been searching for at least two years on statics or numbers and I have never foung them. I doubt you will for several years because they just recently started keeping hard data about people who have had this procedure and the results. I am part of a study group myself.
My doctor has done about 28 replacements, some one side, some both. He says all his patients are functioning and most are better. He has had two cases where there was nerve damage and they patients could not wrinkle their forehead. This was the only extent of damage he claims to have seen from joint replacement. He says he has not had any problems with loose screws or other failures of the joints. I doubt he would lie about that because it would give me grounds to sue him if I had a problem because he would have given me insubstantial information. Of course not all doctors are equally talented or honest as we have all seen plenty of times on this board.
I am very happy that I finally met someone this weekend who had exactly what I am having done. She had the sagitaril (sp) split and joint replacements ten years ago. She said she had alot of pain after the surgery. She said eventually everything healed and the pain subsided and she hasn't had any problems since. She is living a normal happy life. I needed to hear that. If you search for answers online only, you will find informative sites and people discussing the failure of thier implants. People who feel good are not posting on any site I have found. I hope to be the first :).
My doctor is rebulding everything so that it is properly aligned and back where it should be before my trama and damage occured. He is also doing extensive surgery to correct any malformities I had that contributed to my joints degenerating. I think that is important as Elaine said because if you don't fix the original problem, you would be right back at square one ten years later. I decided to have the surgery because I cant do much with what I have. To use my doctors words, I have the joints of a 90 years old lady. I am 27. Good luck with your research. I will post after my surgery and let you know how I make out either way.
Autumn
I am scheduled for bilateral joint replacements tomorrow. I am getting TMJ IMPLANTS, INC custom made total replacements. They have a pretty nice website with lots of information. There is also a site for TMJ Concepts, another commonly used replacement. I recently found a site for a northeastern US university hospital, I believe it is using a type called the Hoffman model. I have been searching for at least two years on statics or numbers and I have never foung them. I doubt you will for several years because they just recently started keeping hard data about people who have had this procedure and the results. I am part of a study group myself.
My doctor has done about 28 replacements, some one side, some both. He says all his patients are functioning and most are better. He has had two cases where there was nerve damage and they patients could not wrinkle their forehead. This was the only extent of damage he claims to have seen from joint replacement. He says he has not had any problems with loose screws or other failures of the joints. I doubt he would lie about that because it would give me grounds to sue him if I had a problem because he would have given me insubstantial information. Of course not all doctors are equally talented or honest as we have all seen plenty of times on this board.
I am very happy that I finally met someone this weekend who had exactly what I am having done. She had the sagitaril (sp) split and joint replacements ten years ago. She said she had alot of pain after the surgery. She said eventually everything healed and the pain subsided and she hasn't had any problems since. She is living a normal happy life. I needed to hear that. If you search for answers online only, you will find informative sites and people discussing the failure of thier implants. People who feel good are not posting on any site I have found. I hope to be the first :).
My doctor is rebulding everything so that it is properly aligned and back where it should be before my trama and damage occured. He is also doing extensive surgery to correct any malformities I had that contributed to my joints degenerating. I think that is important as Elaine said because if you don't fix the original problem, you would be right back at square one ten years later. I decided to have the surgery because I cant do much with what I have. To use my doctors words, I have the joints of a 90 years old lady. I am 27. Good luck with your research. I will post after my surgery and let you know how I make out either way.
Autumn
Cymy Sue
03-26-2003, 09:41 AM
I wish you the best.
Cymy Sue
Cymy Sue
Elaine
03-26-2003, 01:51 PM
Autumn,
Seems like a doctor's choice of words to tell us we have the joints of a 90 year old. If I am not mistaken, I think Sue was told the same thing, also. I agree, you don't find sites with success stories about this surgery. I really don't think there are "many". Back surgery is another complicated matter, but at least on those forums, you have both failures and successes. People do get on with their life but take the time to come back and at least give people hope. On the TMJ forums, I find no hope. In real life, I have found no hope. All I find is doctors telling me there are no safe implants, to get this out and leave it alone. Of course, there are the doctors still out to "try" to make things better or to make a buck, I don't know which. In my heart, I don't think they have the surgery down yet. They are still experimenting and hoping for good results. I wish you all the luck in the world with your surgery and truly hope things go well for you. Hopefully you will be a surgical success story.
Good luck,
Elaine
Seems like a doctor's choice of words to tell us we have the joints of a 90 year old. If I am not mistaken, I think Sue was told the same thing, also. I agree, you don't find sites with success stories about this surgery. I really don't think there are "many". Back surgery is another complicated matter, but at least on those forums, you have both failures and successes. People do get on with their life but take the time to come back and at least give people hope. On the TMJ forums, I find no hope. In real life, I have found no hope. All I find is doctors telling me there are no safe implants, to get this out and leave it alone. Of course, there are the doctors still out to "try" to make things better or to make a buck, I don't know which. In my heart, I don't think they have the surgery down yet. They are still experimenting and hoping for good results. I wish you all the luck in the world with your surgery and truly hope things go well for you. Hopefully you will be a surgical success story.
Good luck,
Elaine
Cymy Sue
03-26-2003, 08:18 PM
Yep Elaine,
90 is the magic number http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Cymy Sue
90 is the magic number http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Cymy Sue
Jill J
03-26-2003, 08:30 PM
Autumn,
Best of luck to you tomorrow. I will be thinking of you and sending prayers. I hope this turns your life back to normal for you and you are pain free.
Here's to a quick and speedy recovery and to pain free days ahead of you
Jill
Best of luck to you tomorrow. I will be thinking of you and sending prayers. I hope this turns your life back to normal for you and you are pain free.
Here's to a quick and speedy recovery and to pain free days ahead of you
Jill
Charlene
03-27-2003, 09:36 PM
Hi Autumn
I am a success story with the same implants that you are having implanted tomorrow!!
I have the Fossa-Eminence Prosthesis bilateral implanted for 13 years now!! I'm eating everything without pain.
I have been posting several times on message boards about my success with my implants, and alot of people have tried to stop me or bann me from posting, so maybe this is the answer why alot of successful implant patient's dont post.
I wont give up my goal, I will continue to tell others of my success with my TMJ Implants in hopes to help others who suffer from this delilitating disease. I feel that everyone has the right to make there own choice of treatment or surgery, and they need to learn the pro's and con's of it all!!
Charlene
I am a success story with the same implants that you are having implanted tomorrow!!
I have the Fossa-Eminence Prosthesis bilateral implanted for 13 years now!! I'm eating everything without pain.
I have been posting several times on message boards about my success with my implants, and alot of people have tried to stop me or bann me from posting, so maybe this is the answer why alot of successful implant patient's dont post.
I wont give up my goal, I will continue to tell others of my success with my TMJ Implants in hopes to help others who suffer from this delilitating disease. I feel that everyone has the right to make there own choice of treatment or surgery, and they need to learn the pro's and con's of it all!!
Charlene
Jill J
03-27-2003, 09:56 PM
It's great to hear success stories!! We don't get to see them very often so it's nice to see the good and the bad. I'm happy that you found a treatment that works for you. Hope we are all that lucky!! Here's to your continued success!! Jill
Marlene
03-27-2003, 10:03 PM
Charlene,
I thought you posted here in the past that you had the Christensen Fossa implant?????
Marlene
I thought you posted here in the past that you had the Christensen Fossa implant?????
Marlene
TiffanyAnn
03-28-2003, 12:17 AM
Hi Elaine:
That was a wonderful explanation. So in depth that it made my jaw hurt more. :) But you are right, the muscle will always win. It's a shame that doctors don't understand this and are treating and harming many TMJ sufferers.
Tiffany
That was a wonderful explanation. So in depth that it made my jaw hurt more. :) But you are right, the muscle will always win. It's a shame that doctors don't understand this and are treating and harming many TMJ sufferers.
Tiffany
TiffanyAnn
03-28-2003, 12:19 AM
Hey Sue:
Could you please tell me how you get your smiley faces in your e-mails to wave and the eyes to move. I think they are just so cool but I can't figure out how to make them work.
Thanks so much,
Tiffany
Could you please tell me how you get your smiley faces in your e-mails to wave and the eyes to move. I think they are just so cool but I can't figure out how to make them work.
Thanks so much,
Tiffany
Elaine
03-28-2003, 12:46 AM
Charlene,
I don't know of anyone who tried to stop you from posting your success story. I just know of me, banned from the Christensen group because I wasn't a success.
Multiple surgeries and they considered themselves a success. Some of them had over 20 surgeries, too me that is not success. Again, I will say the odds are not good and "most" doctors will tell you to stay away from TMJ surgery. I am glad you are doing well but believe me, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't.
Elaine
People definitely need to learn the "pro's and con's". I think there would be a big decrease in TMJ surgeries and the implant epidemic... :)
[This message has been edited by Elaine (edited 03-27-2003).]
I don't know of anyone who tried to stop you from posting your success story. I just know of me, banned from the Christensen group because I wasn't a success.
Multiple surgeries and they considered themselves a success. Some of them had over 20 surgeries, too me that is not success. Again, I will say the odds are not good and "most" doctors will tell you to stay away from TMJ surgery. I am glad you are doing well but believe me, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't.
Elaine
People definitely need to learn the "pro's and con's". I think there would be a big decrease in TMJ surgeries and the implant epidemic... :)
[This message has been edited by Elaine (edited 03-27-2003).]
Cymy Sue
03-28-2003, 10:37 AM
My prayers are with Autumn. I hope she will be one of the great successes in Tmj Surgery.
Tiffany,
Click on the Smilies Legend on the left. It brings up a screen. Type in exactly the colons and word by the face you want and it should work. You have to click the screen off to come back to your message and continue. It took me a while to figure it out, too. :round:
Good Luck!!!!
Elaine,
TMJ Implants in "Colorado" is or was owned by Dr. Christensen. There is also another company in "Colorado" started by Dr. Christensen and was/is managed by Andy Christensen, Medical Modeling, or something to that affect. (Charlene might could help me with the correct name) I assume they still use his designs. I was glad to see that those designs finally got somewhat of an FDA approval 02/01. When you got yours, I don't believe they had the appropriate rating as class III medical devices and were being used under an approval called "Grandfathering". This means if the design works in hips or knees, go ahead and use anywhere. They were pulled from the market for nearly 2 years, due to complaints, but with millions spent by the designer, they are now allowed to remarket a complete version of the original.
Charlene,
I am very happy you have had great success with your implants, but am curious as to why you dropped Christensen's name from your implant description. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif
Also, to address the stats not being available regarding successful vs. failed surgeries. There are a few successes listed on sites where Doctors/Patients advertise their designs or their expertise in doing these surgeries. Some of the TMJ orgs. are now trying, by request of the National Health Inst. to put together a national registry of sufferers of this disease regarding all type of treatments, surgeries, etc. They say this is the only way anyone can get an idea of how many people have improved or been made worse. We all know we can not rely on Doctors to give complete reports because if you don't get well, they get rid of you. There are rarely any long term follow-up reports.
Most of you know my history, 7 TMJD related surgeries.
My first Surgeon refused to do any type of implants in 1990, he said they did not work. (Thank God) He has since quit doing TMJ Surgery altogether. He says it has ruined too many people's lives.
My last surgeon http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/jester.gif in 1997, dumped me in the "Pain Center" for the rest of my life, but I can assure you that he does not see or report my last 2 surgeries as failures. I assume if you don't die during the surgery, they report it as successful.
We all know the great possibility of expected/unexpected surgical damage, iatrogenic damage and failed devices comes slowly and can continue forever. Sadly, we all know that TMJD and TMJD surgeries does cause death for some, in one way or the other.
Again, I am happy for those who have had successful surgery and pray for those who will have surgery in the future. I do agree with Elaine, it's still a guessing game and you are very fortunate if you come away better. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 03-28-2003).]
Tiffany,
Click on the Smilies Legend on the left. It brings up a screen. Type in exactly the colons and word by the face you want and it should work. You have to click the screen off to come back to your message and continue. It took me a while to figure it out, too. :round:
Good Luck!!!!
Elaine,
TMJ Implants in "Colorado" is or was owned by Dr. Christensen. There is also another company in "Colorado" started by Dr. Christensen and was/is managed by Andy Christensen, Medical Modeling, or something to that affect. (Charlene might could help me with the correct name) I assume they still use his designs. I was glad to see that those designs finally got somewhat of an FDA approval 02/01. When you got yours, I don't believe they had the appropriate rating as class III medical devices and were being used under an approval called "Grandfathering". This means if the design works in hips or knees, go ahead and use anywhere. They were pulled from the market for nearly 2 years, due to complaints, but with millions spent by the designer, they are now allowed to remarket a complete version of the original.
Charlene,
I am very happy you have had great success with your implants, but am curious as to why you dropped Christensen's name from your implant description. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif
Also, to address the stats not being available regarding successful vs. failed surgeries. There are a few successes listed on sites where Doctors/Patients advertise their designs or their expertise in doing these surgeries. Some of the TMJ orgs. are now trying, by request of the National Health Inst. to put together a national registry of sufferers of this disease regarding all type of treatments, surgeries, etc. They say this is the only way anyone can get an idea of how many people have improved or been made worse. We all know we can not rely on Doctors to give complete reports because if you don't get well, they get rid of you. There are rarely any long term follow-up reports.
Most of you know my history, 7 TMJD related surgeries.
My first Surgeon refused to do any type of implants in 1990, he said they did not work. (Thank God) He has since quit doing TMJ Surgery altogether. He says it has ruined too many people's lives.
My last surgeon http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/jester.gif in 1997, dumped me in the "Pain Center" for the rest of my life, but I can assure you that he does not see or report my last 2 surgeries as failures. I assume if you don't die during the surgery, they report it as successful.
We all know the great possibility of expected/unexpected surgical damage, iatrogenic damage and failed devices comes slowly and can continue forever. Sadly, we all know that TMJD and TMJD surgeries does cause death for some, in one way or the other.
Again, I am happy for those who have had successful surgery and pray for those who will have surgery in the future. I do agree with Elaine, it's still a guessing game and you are very fortunate if you come away better. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 03-28-2003).]
Charlene
03-28-2003, 03:29 PM
Hi to Everyone :wave:
Jill J
Thank you for your good wishes of my continue success with my Christensen Implants!!
I do feel very fortunate that I was one of the lucky ones that didn't have any of those other implants (Vitek, Sylastic, Teflon Proplast) first before my Christensen implants!! I only had 3 arthroscopy surgeries that didnt work for me, not saying that it wouldn't work for someone else..
Marlene
Yes I have posted here before that I have the Christensen Fossa Eminence Implant.
Elaine
I have said many times before, that I was not the one who banned you from the Christensen support group, that was Sherry as she was the owner of that site!!
I think we all measure our success in a different ways, like how much pain we are having, what we can eat, how wide we can open our mouth and etc.
I know you would never have surgery again, and I dont blame you for that, I understand your position!!
But thats my point we all should have the right to make that decision, right or wrong its our choice of treatment or surgery. And we as patients need to hear the good and bad, pro's and con's of everything to make an informed and educated decision. Then we need to support that patients decision nor matter what..
I thank thats great that all of you are supporting Autumn, and we all should pray for her speedy recovery.
Cymy Sue
Yes Dr Christensen still own's TMJ Implants in colo, and his son Andy is managing the other company called Medical Modeling.
Thank you for your good wishes and continued success with my Implants. As to why I dropped the Christensen name from my implant description. There was no reason, other than I didn't want to offend anyone.
I will continue to pray for all who suffer from TMJ, and hope that someday in our life time, there will be an answer for all, to live without pain!!
Best Wishes
Charlene :)
[This message has been edited by Charlene (edited 03-28-2003).]
Jill J
Thank you for your good wishes of my continue success with my Christensen Implants!!
I do feel very fortunate that I was one of the lucky ones that didn't have any of those other implants (Vitek, Sylastic, Teflon Proplast) first before my Christensen implants!! I only had 3 arthroscopy surgeries that didnt work for me, not saying that it wouldn't work for someone else..
Marlene
Yes I have posted here before that I have the Christensen Fossa Eminence Implant.
Elaine
I have said many times before, that I was not the one who banned you from the Christensen support group, that was Sherry as she was the owner of that site!!
I think we all measure our success in a different ways, like how much pain we are having, what we can eat, how wide we can open our mouth and etc.
I know you would never have surgery again, and I dont blame you for that, I understand your position!!
But thats my point we all should have the right to make that decision, right or wrong its our choice of treatment or surgery. And we as patients need to hear the good and bad, pro's and con's of everything to make an informed and educated decision. Then we need to support that patients decision nor matter what..
I thank thats great that all of you are supporting Autumn, and we all should pray for her speedy recovery.
Cymy Sue
Yes Dr Christensen still own's TMJ Implants in colo, and his son Andy is managing the other company called Medical Modeling.
Thank you for your good wishes and continued success with my Implants. As to why I dropped the Christensen name from my implant description. There was no reason, other than I didn't want to offend anyone.
I will continue to pray for all who suffer from TMJ, and hope that someday in our life time, there will be an answer for all, to live without pain!!
Best Wishes
Charlene :)
[This message has been edited by Charlene (edited 03-28-2003).]
Marlene
03-28-2003, 09:19 PM
Just a little bit of info for EVERYONE:
The Christensen Implants were banned in Canada a few years ago - draw your own conclusions!?
Marlene http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif
The Christensen Implants were banned in Canada a few years ago - draw your own conclusions!?
Marlene http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/confused.gif
Cymy Sue
03-29-2003, 09:27 AM
Hi Marlene,
I'm glad you made this post. I also think everyone needs to know the pro's and con's of any surgical procedure, especially one of this magnitude, but I did not want to offend anyone. However, Christensen Devices almost did not make it here either.
As posted earlier, they were pulled for almost 2 years and re-evaluated because they needed to be classified as Class III Medical Devices. Our Food & Drug Adm. first said the Fossa-Eminence prosthesis device would not be approved due to reviewer skepticism. They said there were holes in the company provided data, such as patients lost to follow-up. Basically, there was no follow up data on patients for the reviewers to access to determine the success or failures of these devices.
After Dr. Christensen spent millions, enlisted legal, political and media to "help" with the process, the Total Prothesis was approved , but with a very strict criteria for it's use. Dr. Christensen was not real happy with this determination, but began marketing immediately and has tried to get some of his money back from the 20 month long battle to have his devices approved. He thinks our FDA owes him an estimated 6 to 8 million dollars that he lost during the time they were trying to decide if his devices were safe and money he spent trying to prove it.
Prior to this re-classification process, these devices could be used with any medical criteria and at will.(That's a little scary) These devices were put back on the market around 03/01. I guess about the same time Canada banned them. (Money talks a little louder here.)
One of the criteria is that they are not made to withstand "grinding and clenching." If all Surgeons follow the criteria, this should cut down on the use of these implants substantially http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif .
I don't know many TMJD sufferers who do not grind and/or clench.
So, I agree with Charlene completely, everyone should know everything there is to know about any surgery or device they might be considering.
All of the information I have posted (and more) can be found on several sites: FDA Approval Archives, Medical Device Classification, Class III Medical Devices, and some of the TMJ orgs. have the info posted.
This product "is" controversial, it almost did not make it through FDA approval. To anyone who is considering an implant of any type, please find out everything you can and not just from this board.
Take Care,
Cymy sue
I'm glad you made this post. I also think everyone needs to know the pro's and con's of any surgical procedure, especially one of this magnitude, but I did not want to offend anyone. However, Christensen Devices almost did not make it here either.
As posted earlier, they were pulled for almost 2 years and re-evaluated because they needed to be classified as Class III Medical Devices. Our Food & Drug Adm. first said the Fossa-Eminence prosthesis device would not be approved due to reviewer skepticism. They said there were holes in the company provided data, such as patients lost to follow-up. Basically, there was no follow up data on patients for the reviewers to access to determine the success or failures of these devices.
After Dr. Christensen spent millions, enlisted legal, political and media to "help" with the process, the Total Prothesis was approved , but with a very strict criteria for it's use. Dr. Christensen was not real happy with this determination, but began marketing immediately and has tried to get some of his money back from the 20 month long battle to have his devices approved. He thinks our FDA owes him an estimated 6 to 8 million dollars that he lost during the time they were trying to decide if his devices were safe and money he spent trying to prove it.
Prior to this re-classification process, these devices could be used with any medical criteria and at will.(That's a little scary) These devices were put back on the market around 03/01. I guess about the same time Canada banned them. (Money talks a little louder here.)
One of the criteria is that they are not made to withstand "grinding and clenching." If all Surgeons follow the criteria, this should cut down on the use of these implants substantially http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif .
I don't know many TMJD sufferers who do not grind and/or clench.
So, I agree with Charlene completely, everyone should know everything there is to know about any surgery or device they might be considering.
All of the information I have posted (and more) can be found on several sites: FDA Approval Archives, Medical Device Classification, Class III Medical Devices, and some of the TMJ orgs. have the info posted.
This product "is" controversial, it almost did not make it through FDA approval. To anyone who is considering an implant of any type, please find out everything you can and not just from this board.
Take Care,
Cymy sue
Elaine
03-29-2003, 02:48 PM
Sue,
AMEN!!! I appreciate the information...Now, to get rid of this foreign object, uggh!
Elaine
AMEN!!! I appreciate the information...Now, to get rid of this foreign object, uggh!
Elaine
donschik
03-31-2003, 11:50 PM
Hey everyone,
I have been reading with interest all of the views of the Christensen implants. I have been through at least 10 surgeries with all the different implants. I have had the arthoscopic surgeries, reconstructions, and the different kinds of implants. I have had surgeries in my hometown, Denver, and at Mayo Clinic. I had my first Christensen implant 7 years ago and had seemingly good results and the second one two years ago. I started having trouble shortly after the 5 year mark with the original surgery and have gone down hill since. I have now been told that I am a candidate for total joint replacement but that I can count on having both joints done at least 3 more times in my life time. It is really discouraging to think of that many more surgeries when I haven't even got the last bills paid for and that I won't ever be well regardless. I did some research on Christensen implants when all of this started and found out that between my first and second surgery they had actually outlawed the implant for awhile! I wish the Dr. would have given me some of this information before I went through with the second surgery. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you my story. I am anxiously awaiting a true cure.
I have been reading with interest all of the views of the Christensen implants. I have been through at least 10 surgeries with all the different implants. I have had the arthoscopic surgeries, reconstructions, and the different kinds of implants. I have had surgeries in my hometown, Denver, and at Mayo Clinic. I had my first Christensen implant 7 years ago and had seemingly good results and the second one two years ago. I started having trouble shortly after the 5 year mark with the original surgery and have gone down hill since. I have now been told that I am a candidate for total joint replacement but that I can count on having both joints done at least 3 more times in my life time. It is really discouraging to think of that many more surgeries when I haven't even got the last bills paid for and that I won't ever be well regardless. I did some research on Christensen implants when all of this started and found out that between my first and second surgery they had actually outlawed the implant for awhile! I wish the Dr. would have given me some of this information before I went through with the second surgery. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you my story. I am anxiously awaiting a true cure.
Elaine
04-01-2003, 03:39 PM
Julie,
Same here...I was doing better for awhile. Once the nerves and muscles grew back, that was the end of my relief. I "WAS NOT" told at the time that the prothesis was not recommended for people who clench and grind. Needless to say, the implant couldn't handle it and that is why the screws are loose and the implant hangs up. My bite is so out of whack, it is unreal. Since they say there are no safe implants,(they all have risks) I have decided once I get the courage to have it taken out, I will leave it bone against bone. It couldn't be any worse than the way it is now, bone against metal. I question how in the $$$$ would metal not deteriorate your condyle? We are convinced to get the prothesis to save the joint. Now that our condyles are shot, they suggest total joint replacement!!! Round and round we go.. :round: Total joints last about five years, what is the use?
Elaine
Same here...I was doing better for awhile. Once the nerves and muscles grew back, that was the end of my relief. I "WAS NOT" told at the time that the prothesis was not recommended for people who clench and grind. Needless to say, the implant couldn't handle it and that is why the screws are loose and the implant hangs up. My bite is so out of whack, it is unreal. Since they say there are no safe implants,(they all have risks) I have decided once I get the courage to have it taken out, I will leave it bone against bone. It couldn't be any worse than the way it is now, bone against metal. I question how in the $$$$ would metal not deteriorate your condyle? We are convinced to get the prothesis to save the joint. Now that our condyles are shot, they suggest total joint replacement!!! Round and round we go.. :round: Total joints last about five years, what is the use?
Elaine
donschik
04-01-2003, 10:05 PM
Elaine,
I was never told about the clenching and grinding either which are both problems I have. I also wasn't told that the cold against the metal can cause migraines which I learned the hard way. My Dr. told me after the fact that anything below like 20 can cause you serious headaches. I wish I would have known alot of these things before I had these things done. My bite was terrible too but my dentist is the best and figured out a way to fix it. Said he would have to give it a name since it was just a test run (but it worked!). I guess we have been the guinea pigs huh? I have been at this for going on 20 years!
Julie
[This message has been edited by donschik (edited 04-01-2003).]
I was never told about the clenching and grinding either which are both problems I have. I also wasn't told that the cold against the metal can cause migraines which I learned the hard way. My Dr. told me after the fact that anything below like 20 can cause you serious headaches. I wish I would have known alot of these things before I had these things done. My bite was terrible too but my dentist is the best and figured out a way to fix it. Said he would have to give it a name since it was just a test run (but it worked!). I guess we have been the guinea pigs huh? I have been at this for going on 20 years!
Julie
[This message has been edited by donschik (edited 04-01-2003).]
CherylLynn24
02-12-2004, 04:56 AM
Bump for all considering implants....