RobynRose
03-25-2003, 09:50 AM
Hi to all... I'm fairly new hear, but have been reading the posts with interest. I wondered if anyone had problem with their ligaments being too loose, and thus creating a hypermobllity of the tmj joint. I noticed many here have difficulty with openning, but I think my poblem may be that my ligaments are stretched too much - allowing the joint to be unstable and sublux. I have a ton of clunking and feel the sensation of dislocation to the point where I am constantly trying to adjust the joint mannually. Sometimes I "get it" - and it almost feels normal - BUT - it seems to dislocate again within minutes.
Thanks for any thoughts or advice--- Your support is much appreciated!! Robyn
Thanks for any thoughts or advice--- Your support is much appreciated!! Robyn
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TiffanyAnn
03-25-2003, 01:57 PM
Hi Robyn:
My problem is that my muscles are so tight but TMJ has so many strange symptoms that I have no doubt your symtpoms are caused by TMJ. Have you seen a dentist or doctor for your problems?
Tiffany
My problem is that my muscles are so tight but TMJ has so many strange symptoms that I have no doubt your symtpoms are caused by TMJ. Have you seen a dentist or doctor for your problems?
Tiffany
Al4
03-25-2003, 02:42 PM
Robyn,
It has started to happen to me these last few weeks. There is so much clicking and grating when I move my lower jaw, eat, talk, or even breathe very shallowly that you would say there is a 4th of July celebration in there! Even wiping the face with a towel causes clicking. I never had these sounds before no matter what I did with my jaw. It is also affecting my facial and eye muscles. I do not know what that all means as far as the state of the joints and ligaments are concerned. I hope to find out when I see a maxillofacial surgeon soon for a second opinion. Do you have any pain or muscle spasms associated with all of your symptoms? Thanks. Al
[This message has been edited by Al4 (edited 03-25-2003).]
It has started to happen to me these last few weeks. There is so much clicking and grating when I move my lower jaw, eat, talk, or even breathe very shallowly that you would say there is a 4th of July celebration in there! Even wiping the face with a towel causes clicking. I never had these sounds before no matter what I did with my jaw. It is also affecting my facial and eye muscles. I do not know what that all means as far as the state of the joints and ligaments are concerned. I hope to find out when I see a maxillofacial surgeon soon for a second opinion. Do you have any pain or muscle spasms associated with all of your symptoms? Thanks. Al
[This message has been edited by Al4 (edited 03-25-2003).]
Isew4work
03-26-2003, 04:23 PM
Dear Robin,
The same thing has happened to me. I think for all of my adult life. When I was a kid my wrist used to get dislocated anytime an adult would pull on my hand, my hips have always rolled out of joint very easily too. Then my son started disolocating his shoulder at age 8. A Dr. in Tennessee sent us to genetic testing and we found out we had a mild case of something called Ehlers Danlos. It can be serious for some people but for most people who have it,(and you would know by now) it just causes joint hyperextension and problems that go along with that. You can do a search on it and read about it. I find it interesting. My kids are very very flexible, my daughter can lock her fists and rotate them all the way over her head without loosening her grip.
Anyway, about 4-5 years ago I was told I had tmj due to opening my mouth too wide for an entire lifetime. I had never even given it any thougth. I have been in treatment now for 3 years but how can you help opening your mouth for yawning and such. My disks are displaced forward and now I have locking on the right side at about 25mm. I am pretty certain that I will be having arthoscopic surgery to hold the disks back in place for as long as it will last.
Let me know what you learn concerning treatment for people like us who get tmj from overextending. I would like to compare notes.
Best of luck,
Mary
[This message has been edited by Isew4work (edited 03-26-2003).]
The same thing has happened to me. I think for all of my adult life. When I was a kid my wrist used to get dislocated anytime an adult would pull on my hand, my hips have always rolled out of joint very easily too. Then my son started disolocating his shoulder at age 8. A Dr. in Tennessee sent us to genetic testing and we found out we had a mild case of something called Ehlers Danlos. It can be serious for some people but for most people who have it,(and you would know by now) it just causes joint hyperextension and problems that go along with that. You can do a search on it and read about it. I find it interesting. My kids are very very flexible, my daughter can lock her fists and rotate them all the way over her head without loosening her grip.
Anyway, about 4-5 years ago I was told I had tmj due to opening my mouth too wide for an entire lifetime. I had never even given it any thougth. I have been in treatment now for 3 years but how can you help opening your mouth for yawning and such. My disks are displaced forward and now I have locking on the right side at about 25mm. I am pretty certain that I will be having arthoscopic surgery to hold the disks back in place for as long as it will last.
Let me know what you learn concerning treatment for people like us who get tmj from overextending. I would like to compare notes.
Best of luck,
Mary
[This message has been edited by Isew4work (edited 03-26-2003).]
totallyconfused
04-22-2003, 10:35 PM
Hi Robyn,
I just found out that I may have hypermobile joints. (My PCP did a test for Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus and overall Inflammation and they came back normal.) Am I more susceptible to other problems because of this?
Thanks!
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 05-04-2003).]
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-29-2003).]
I just found out that I may have hypermobile joints. (My PCP did a test for Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus and overall Inflammation and they came back normal.) Am I more susceptible to other problems because of this?
Thanks!
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 05-04-2003).]
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-29-2003).]
RobynRose
04-22-2003, 11:39 PM
Hi Cathleen... (and Mary if you're reading - I just noticed your post)...
This hypermobility issue is a tough one. I think that if one's ligaments are loose - they tend to be more vulnerable to joint dislocations and instabilitiy throughout the musculoskeletal system. Without the support of strong ligaments...we rely a lot on the muscle to hold things in place.
I'm just now learning all that is involved in tmj function...but it seems to me that this is a VERY vulnerable joint. Also...when one is prone to instablity - the muscles often go into wicked spasm trying to hold things together. There are so many strong muscles attached to the tmj, that I fear this intense spasm can reap havoc on this joint (and displace those discs).
Prioir to the jaw, I have had big trouble with my Sacroilliac joints, lumbar spine - neck and shoulder.
I do "pop" everything though - and yes my hips "clunk" when I sit indian style... - or bend from the thigh.
I know there are many hypermobiles who go through life without much pain - but it seems my body is not one of those.
I'd like to hear more about what your dentist has to say about all this Cathleen... keep in touch!
Robyn :)
This hypermobility issue is a tough one. I think that if one's ligaments are loose - they tend to be more vulnerable to joint dislocations and instabilitiy throughout the musculoskeletal system. Without the support of strong ligaments...we rely a lot on the muscle to hold things in place.
I'm just now learning all that is involved in tmj function...but it seems to me that this is a VERY vulnerable joint. Also...when one is prone to instablity - the muscles often go into wicked spasm trying to hold things together. There are so many strong muscles attached to the tmj, that I fear this intense spasm can reap havoc on this joint (and displace those discs).
Prioir to the jaw, I have had big trouble with my Sacroilliac joints, lumbar spine - neck and shoulder.
I do "pop" everything though - and yes my hips "clunk" when I sit indian style... - or bend from the thigh.
I know there are many hypermobiles who go through life without much pain - but it seems my body is not one of those.
I'd like to hear more about what your dentist has to say about all this Cathleen... keep in touch!
Robyn :)
totallyconfused
04-23-2003, 09:02 AM
Hi Robyn,
I see him again Monday and I'll see what he has to say. I'm wondering if he will refer me to another doctor given the fact that he seems to think I'm not "symmetrical".
Hope you are having a good day.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-01-2003).]
I see him again Monday and I'll see what he has to say. I'm wondering if he will refer me to another doctor given the fact that he seems to think I'm not "symmetrical".
Hope you are having a good day.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-01-2003).]
totallyconfused
04-28-2003, 07:47 PM
Robyn,
I got back from my appointment a little while ago. The dentist had so much to say I know I can't possibly remember it all.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-02-2003).]
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-29-2003).]
I got back from my appointment a little while ago. The dentist had so much to say I know I can't possibly remember it all.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-02-2003).]
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-29-2003).]
totallyconfused
04-28-2003, 11:27 PM
Robyn and anyone else who is interested,
I had my appointment today to find out my diagnosis and treatment plan. I can't begin to remember everything the doctor said today. Basically, he says I have laxity of the ligament(s) in my jaw joint(s). Also, I have some inflammation and possibly fibrous or scar tissue in the joints, most especially my left one and that my disc (at least one) is probably displaced with reduction. Basically he said that left untreated I would get worse over time. On a positive note, he said the x-rays didn't show any degeneration of the condyles. I guess this is my best option.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-02-2003).]
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-29-2003).]
I had my appointment today to find out my diagnosis and treatment plan. I can't begin to remember everything the doctor said today. Basically, he says I have laxity of the ligament(s) in my jaw joint(s). Also, I have some inflammation and possibly fibrous or scar tissue in the joints, most especially my left one and that my disc (at least one) is probably displaced with reduction. Basically he said that left untreated I would get worse over time. On a positive note, he said the x-rays didn't show any degeneration of the condyles. I guess this is my best option.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-02-2003).]
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-29-2003).]
RobynRose
05-17-2003, 11:35 PM
Hi again Cathleen. I just re-read the post you made on your doctor's suggestion that your joints are loose.
Yes.. I do pop EVERYTHING as well. Most of the time the pops are painless ...and just happen with general movement. Unfortuantely, my spine (sacroiliac joints) have learned to "lock" - and this causes great pain. It turns out I somehow herniated my lumbar disc (L5S1) - and I suspect this is the root of much of my problems. I appear to also have some imbalance (one hip higher etc.). I think some of this is muscle spasm.
Many people who are hypermobile do fine through life. Others face more problems. There is a condition called Ehler's Danlos Syndrome type III (or Hypermobility Syndrome). You may want to research these some and see if you fit with the symptoms that go along with these. I do in many ways - but not all. My rhematologist suspects I have some derivitive of this - and my connective tissue is not great.
The jaw has "clunked" for years and years - though - but the true pain and dysfunction only set it this past fall. I suppose it was a matter of time.
In general, all I can tell you is that if you seem to have these loose ligaments...the best you can do is work carefully to stabllize your muscles. This is especially important in the core - abdominals to support your spine. I am not sure about stablizing the jaw - but I'd imagine this would be a good thing as well.
Keep me posted. Sounds like your dr. uses similar technique to Dr. Cooper. He's into something where he electrolically measures the muscle activity and uses these results to create the splint.
Good wishes your way, Robyn
Yes.. I do pop EVERYTHING as well. Most of the time the pops are painless ...and just happen with general movement. Unfortuantely, my spine (sacroiliac joints) have learned to "lock" - and this causes great pain. It turns out I somehow herniated my lumbar disc (L5S1) - and I suspect this is the root of much of my problems. I appear to also have some imbalance (one hip higher etc.). I think some of this is muscle spasm.
Many people who are hypermobile do fine through life. Others face more problems. There is a condition called Ehler's Danlos Syndrome type III (or Hypermobility Syndrome). You may want to research these some and see if you fit with the symptoms that go along with these. I do in many ways - but not all. My rhematologist suspects I have some derivitive of this - and my connective tissue is not great.
The jaw has "clunked" for years and years - though - but the true pain and dysfunction only set it this past fall. I suppose it was a matter of time.
In general, all I can tell you is that if you seem to have these loose ligaments...the best you can do is work carefully to stabllize your muscles. This is especially important in the core - abdominals to support your spine. I am not sure about stablizing the jaw - but I'd imagine this would be a good thing as well.
Keep me posted. Sounds like your dr. uses similar technique to Dr. Cooper. He's into something where he electrolically measures the muscle activity and uses these results to create the splint.
Good wishes your way, Robyn
Al4
05-18-2003, 01:35 PM
Cathleen,
What is the total cost of your neuromuscular splint treatment? A doctor's office quoted me around $8000.00 for all the tests and the splint. My insurance pays only a small part (I will have to pay about $6000.00.) Thanks.
Alex
What is the total cost of your neuromuscular splint treatment? A doctor's office quoted me around $8000.00 for all the tests and the splint. My insurance pays only a small part (I will have to pay about $6000.00.) Thanks.
Alex
totallyconfused
05-18-2003, 05:36 PM
Alex,
Mine is a lot less, but I'm not getting that many tests. Good luck.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-02-2003).]
Mine is a lot less, but I'm not getting that many tests. Good luck.
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 07-02-2003).]
mark g
05-19-2003, 09:15 AM
The crepitus sounds from loose ligaments makes one focus on the ligaments - yet the joint can be strengthened by working on the musculature. It's the cramps of the muscles, however, that are likely to cause tremendous pain and dislocation... (aving injured my hip in a ski accident - stretched out the ligament - I was ultimately able to stabilize it by strengthening the muscles...it took a long time.)
Last week, I asked my chiropractor if she could massage out the deep muscles of the massater on the side that hurts (not the superficial ones which are easy to reach) - in order to reach this area, I needed to close my jaw almost all the way, and it is found in the so-called angle of the jaw.... It helped a lot!!
I found out about this trigger point by reading in the two-volume professional volume of Janice Travell, MD, which is still the text.... I find, however, that artritis in my neck and an acid reflux problem (waking up with acrid taste) can trigger my TMJ problem... I finally got to a neurologist (saw a colleague of the person I was scheduled to see) and am of to a GP at the hospital-faculty practice today...
Last week, I asked my chiropractor if she could massage out the deep muscles of the massater on the side that hurts (not the superficial ones which are easy to reach) - in order to reach this area, I needed to close my jaw almost all the way, and it is found in the so-called angle of the jaw.... It helped a lot!!
I found out about this trigger point by reading in the two-volume professional volume of Janice Travell, MD, which is still the text.... I find, however, that artritis in my neck and an acid reflux problem (waking up with acrid taste) can trigger my TMJ problem... I finally got to a neurologist (saw a colleague of the person I was scheduled to see) and am of to a GP at the hospital-faculty practice today...