Arleen
07-03-2003, 02:16 AM
Hi Everyone:
Sorry to keep you waiting. Before I get into my appt, I just want to say thanks for caring, and in case I forget, TC - have a great time visiting mummy bear. I hope she's feeling better. She will when she sees you and your little swimming fishie son. When do you come back, because I'll miss you here?
Okay, the good news is I really like this dentist. The bad news is his prices are outrageous. So, what to do??
Reception is a cosy little alcove with an upholstered love seat and arm chair. It felt like sitting on someone's screened in sun porch. There was a large doiley in a shadow box frame containing a note from a patient thanking him for taking her pain away after she'd suffered for years. Also a showdow box containing a note from Janet Travell, on white house stationery, with other white house memorabilia. Above is a picture of JFK. The place was cosy and not at all pretentious.
The dentist was very personable and down-to-earth. He was very chatty, but in a good way. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to ask him my 2 million questions, which is unfortunate, but time just ran out, even though I was with him for an hour and a half. Unlike neuro #1 and #2, his enthusiasm for what he does shows. It sounds like he has all the equipment (EMG, tens, and I believe the magnet tracking thing). I'd be surprised if he follows the straight course that it seems many LVI grads too (he isn't a LVI grad).
His business card says DDS, dental surgeon, fellow of the American Academy of Pain Management and C.P.P. (Certified Pain Practitioner)- I don't know what kind of certification this is or who does it. He is Chinese and he said because of it, he integrates some Chinese teachings into his practice. It sounds quite holistic. So, I could go to get my teeth looked at, but my appt may also involve having acupuncture (which he does), or a massage , etc. It may involve taking vitamin supplements, or similar if, once he's observed me for a while, he thinks my body or immune system is lacking something.
Even though this was a consult ($200), he was very thorough in getting an understanding of my problems. He asked me to list what I considered my major problems (I think he had me rank these). I gave him the list of my history, without dentist's name, but near the end of the appt. gave him the list that had names. I think he was just curious (nosy) to see how others had treated my problems. He didn't single anyone out on my list, but has a distain for some of the pain and hospital clinics that patients are shunted to (join the club, so do I!). It seemed like he really wanted to understand what all I'd been through. He also did a quick manual exam. He pressed around my jaw, ears, several areas inside my mouth near the joints, shoulders. Lots of pain. He watched carefully for my reaction to his pressing, and had me rank which areas hurt more.
Which reminds me, TC, I picked up the tomograms this morning from TMJ dentist #1 (the one who had the hissy fit when I decided not to have impressions done). I'd anticipated problems, but when I called his office last week, the receptionist said to come and get them. Today, no problems. They may me sign a piece of paper saying I'd picked them up. The report of the dentist at the lab where the x-rays were taken says that my condyles are markedly retruded on both sides. Today's dentist had a look and explained the x-rays to me. He said on one side the condyle is forward, not retruded, and on the other side it's pushed right against the jawbone - so he said the report wasn't quite right, although it's the same lab and doctor he uses. He said he'll probably send me for further x-rays there, as he felt a couple of them weren't as clear as he'd like.
He said that the process of helping me was a long one - possibly a year, although sometimes he's surprised and things go a lot quicker. He also said that once he gets the jaw and muscles all in place, my teeth are probably going to be completely off, so they would need something done. No one has said this to me. I was rather hoping that once the jaw was back where it should be, that the teeth would therefore assume their old positions and all would be well, except that I might need one or 2 teeth built up (or wear a permanent splint instead). It freaks me out. We briefly talked splint, although no particulars - it could be one splint, or two - I don't know. I asked about him using the equipment each time he does an adjustment - he said he doesn't always feel it's necessary. I'm wondering, since he has all the training with Janet Travell, maybe he can tell by feel what's doing with the muscles??? since his approach seems much more to do with having an awareness of the whole body. He also has a 1-800 number, so that if you're travelling anywhere in Canada/US and have a problem, you can reach him.
Okay, now here's the really bad part, and I will have to call the office for much further clarification. He requires a $3,800 downpayment up front, then each appt is $600!!!! Appts would likely be 1-1/2 hour, no extra for adjustments. There isn't a separate cost for the splint apart from the lab fee charge (anyone know what kinds of fees labs charge?). I asked what the $3,800 was for. He said this is time spent not in the office thinking about my case, etc. I will ask his receptionist for much more specifics about all these charges, and what extra charges I might expect. I'll also have to call my insurance company tomorrow to see what's what. These charges sound outrageous and yet I don't get the feeling at all that he's some sleazy character dentist out to grab what he can.
So, it's between him and neuro #1. Neuro #1 probably does everything much like Diane and Cheryl (and Robyn in future, and Navy) can expect. I didn't see any passion or concern from neuro #1. I told neuro #1 that low noise and humming sounds were driving me crazy and was there anything he could suggest, he said you'll have to come for treatment. He kinda smile and made a joke of it, but I felt like he wasn't going to tell me anything unless I was a patient coming for a proper (and paid) appt.
Hope everyone is well today. Cheryl, are you still up? Navy? Hi Diane, you're probably sleeping, getting ready for another busy day. I'm glad your problems ended up being your sleep position and nothing more serious. Must have given you quite the scare. Navy, sounds like you're well on your way. Your dental appts sounded great, although I haven't had a chance to tell you I'm so glad you've found someone good.
So, sorry yet again, for another very longwinded story.
Hugs,
Arleen
[This message has been edited by Arleen (edited 07-03-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Arleen (edited 07-03-2003).]
Sorry to keep you waiting. Before I get into my appt, I just want to say thanks for caring, and in case I forget, TC - have a great time visiting mummy bear. I hope she's feeling better. She will when she sees you and your little swimming fishie son. When do you come back, because I'll miss you here?
Okay, the good news is I really like this dentist. The bad news is his prices are outrageous. So, what to do??
Reception is a cosy little alcove with an upholstered love seat and arm chair. It felt like sitting on someone's screened in sun porch. There was a large doiley in a shadow box frame containing a note from a patient thanking him for taking her pain away after she'd suffered for years. Also a showdow box containing a note from Janet Travell, on white house stationery, with other white house memorabilia. Above is a picture of JFK. The place was cosy and not at all pretentious.
The dentist was very personable and down-to-earth. He was very chatty, but in a good way. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to ask him my 2 million questions, which is unfortunate, but time just ran out, even though I was with him for an hour and a half. Unlike neuro #1 and #2, his enthusiasm for what he does shows. It sounds like he has all the equipment (EMG, tens, and I believe the magnet tracking thing). I'd be surprised if he follows the straight course that it seems many LVI grads too (he isn't a LVI grad).
His business card says DDS, dental surgeon, fellow of the American Academy of Pain Management and C.P.P. (Certified Pain Practitioner)- I don't know what kind of certification this is or who does it. He is Chinese and he said because of it, he integrates some Chinese teachings into his practice. It sounds quite holistic. So, I could go to get my teeth looked at, but my appt may also involve having acupuncture (which he does), or a massage , etc. It may involve taking vitamin supplements, or similar if, once he's observed me for a while, he thinks my body or immune system is lacking something.
Even though this was a consult ($200), he was very thorough in getting an understanding of my problems. He asked me to list what I considered my major problems (I think he had me rank these). I gave him the list of my history, without dentist's name, but near the end of the appt. gave him the list that had names. I think he was just curious (nosy) to see how others had treated my problems. He didn't single anyone out on my list, but has a distain for some of the pain and hospital clinics that patients are shunted to (join the club, so do I!). It seemed like he really wanted to understand what all I'd been through. He also did a quick manual exam. He pressed around my jaw, ears, several areas inside my mouth near the joints, shoulders. Lots of pain. He watched carefully for my reaction to his pressing, and had me rank which areas hurt more.
Which reminds me, TC, I picked up the tomograms this morning from TMJ dentist #1 (the one who had the hissy fit when I decided not to have impressions done). I'd anticipated problems, but when I called his office last week, the receptionist said to come and get them. Today, no problems. They may me sign a piece of paper saying I'd picked them up. The report of the dentist at the lab where the x-rays were taken says that my condyles are markedly retruded on both sides. Today's dentist had a look and explained the x-rays to me. He said on one side the condyle is forward, not retruded, and on the other side it's pushed right against the jawbone - so he said the report wasn't quite right, although it's the same lab and doctor he uses. He said he'll probably send me for further x-rays there, as he felt a couple of them weren't as clear as he'd like.
He said that the process of helping me was a long one - possibly a year, although sometimes he's surprised and things go a lot quicker. He also said that once he gets the jaw and muscles all in place, my teeth are probably going to be completely off, so they would need something done. No one has said this to me. I was rather hoping that once the jaw was back where it should be, that the teeth would therefore assume their old positions and all would be well, except that I might need one or 2 teeth built up (or wear a permanent splint instead). It freaks me out. We briefly talked splint, although no particulars - it could be one splint, or two - I don't know. I asked about him using the equipment each time he does an adjustment - he said he doesn't always feel it's necessary. I'm wondering, since he has all the training with Janet Travell, maybe he can tell by feel what's doing with the muscles??? since his approach seems much more to do with having an awareness of the whole body. He also has a 1-800 number, so that if you're travelling anywhere in Canada/US and have a problem, you can reach him.
Okay, now here's the really bad part, and I will have to call the office for much further clarification. He requires a $3,800 downpayment up front, then each appt is $600!!!! Appts would likely be 1-1/2 hour, no extra for adjustments. There isn't a separate cost for the splint apart from the lab fee charge (anyone know what kinds of fees labs charge?). I asked what the $3,800 was for. He said this is time spent not in the office thinking about my case, etc. I will ask his receptionist for much more specifics about all these charges, and what extra charges I might expect. I'll also have to call my insurance company tomorrow to see what's what. These charges sound outrageous and yet I don't get the feeling at all that he's some sleazy character dentist out to grab what he can.
So, it's between him and neuro #1. Neuro #1 probably does everything much like Diane and Cheryl (and Robyn in future, and Navy) can expect. I didn't see any passion or concern from neuro #1. I told neuro #1 that low noise and humming sounds were driving me crazy and was there anything he could suggest, he said you'll have to come for treatment. He kinda smile and made a joke of it, but I felt like he wasn't going to tell me anything unless I was a patient coming for a proper (and paid) appt.
Hope everyone is well today. Cheryl, are you still up? Navy? Hi Diane, you're probably sleeping, getting ready for another busy day. I'm glad your problems ended up being your sleep position and nothing more serious. Must have given you quite the scare. Navy, sounds like you're well on your way. Your dental appts sounded great, although I haven't had a chance to tell you I'm so glad you've found someone good.
So, sorry yet again, for another very longwinded story.
Hugs,
Arleen
[This message has been edited by Arleen (edited 07-03-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Arleen (edited 07-03-2003).]
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CherylLynn24
07-03-2003, 03:00 AM
Hi Arleen,
We've all been waiting, and you're watching movies?! I really like the sound of this dentist, and from reading your post, it sounds like you do, too. (in more ways than just a dentist!) ;)
Cheryl
We've all been waiting, and you're watching movies?! I really like the sound of this dentist, and from reading your post, it sounds like you do, too. (in more ways than just a dentist!) ;)
Cheryl
navy2
07-03-2003, 03:19 AM
Hi Arleen,
I'm still up. i should go to bed. I'm gld the appointment went well. I'm sure you'll make the right decision.
i went to mine. I don't understand the sonogram. They are doing another one next week. All i know is that my test went crazy on both sides, the print-out went wild. My right tmj was worse and i don't have problems there. Could be degeneration of some sort according to TC. My husband says we all have it when we get older. Anyway< i'm not sure how my treatment will go if that's the case.
Navy
I'm still up. i should go to bed. I'm gld the appointment went well. I'm sure you'll make the right decision.
i went to mine. I don't understand the sonogram. They are doing another one next week. All i know is that my test went crazy on both sides, the print-out went wild. My right tmj was worse and i don't have problems there. Could be degeneration of some sort according to TC. My husband says we all have it when we get older. Anyway< i'm not sure how my treatment will go if that's the case.
Navy
Arleen
07-03-2003, 03:52 AM
Hi Cheryl:
How's everyone in skunk country doing today? Poor Mike, having to sleep with his mummy :) Not high on the list of things teenage boys look forward to. Oh well, sounds like he's been doing regular teenage stuff lately which is great. I hope you and hubby are having a decent day. At least you got a cardio workout today, and without paying fitness club rates. I would like nothing better than to chase a sweet doggie around the yard. I love dogs. Huskies are so beautiful and usually have such nice temperaments. It's funny but there have been a number of times during this whole TMJD horror that I wondered if I'd be in better shape if I had a dog. There's something calming about patting a dog and looking into their sweet faces.
I wish I knew what to do. This guy's rates are outrageous and it's doubtful my insurance will pay much, if anything. Apart from the splint, I got the impression that this dentist assesses me each visit and then decides what treatment I should have that day. He said each person's case is individual, so it's probably impossible to get a predetermination from him to submit to the insurance.
I liked this dentist on a personal level. He seemed decent and like a regular guy. It sounds like he does a lot of research and tries to keep up on issues. So, I'm arguing with myself that I shouldn't make a decision based on personality. Neuro #1 was pleasant enough, not a lot of personality, but so what. He could still be a terrific dentist. He was LVI trained, so we know what to expect much more than with neuro #3. Neuro #1 could probably do a predetermination and his rates shouldn't end up nearly as high as the one I saw today. Neuro #1 doesn't look at the whole body picture...but then, does that really matter. $3,800 is a lot of money to put up front without any services having been rendered. What happens if I put it out and find myself dissatisfied after just one appt. I'll be out over $4,000. That's a scary thought. If money were no object, I'd try #3. I'll have to give this lots of thought. I may post his name and see if anyone knows him. I've done internet searches but nothing's turned up.
The teeth thing does concern me. This dentist said everything shifts around. I know teeth aren't static, but how much do they shift around, although I've been dealing with this for 20 mths now, so they could have moved quite a bit. This is a question I may put to neuro #1 to see his response. From all I've read, it just sounded like once the jaw and muscles are stable, you're still dealing with your original bite, but if your teeth have been grinded/adjusted, you may need to correct that. Diane? what do you think? Has Dr. Brookover ever mentioned anything like this?
I have an appt with neuro #3 next Wed. (don't know yet if I'll be going or cancelling??). He would do a complete exam, charting all the teeth, full x-rays, and models. He asked if I'd have models done before, and if so, could I get them and bring them in. My next appt with neuro #1 is a month after my consult appt. I'd have thought they could fit me in sooner. I mean, how many people are they treating who've been going through h-ll for almost 2 years? Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that way, because the world doesn't revolve around me, but you would hope they'd try. I didn't feel good about that at the time.
Anyway, must start getting ready for bed. It's been a full day. Oh, I just noticed Navy's posting. It wasn't there when I started. Hi Navy. Can't help you with the sonogram. I don't think I've had one. I had a doppler device (like a wand) which measured sound in my joints, but I don't know if it had a printout. Someone here will be able to tell you about it. I'm glad you've found a good neuro dentist who can help.
Hugs to all,
Arleen
How's everyone in skunk country doing today? Poor Mike, having to sleep with his mummy :) Not high on the list of things teenage boys look forward to. Oh well, sounds like he's been doing regular teenage stuff lately which is great. I hope you and hubby are having a decent day. At least you got a cardio workout today, and without paying fitness club rates. I would like nothing better than to chase a sweet doggie around the yard. I love dogs. Huskies are so beautiful and usually have such nice temperaments. It's funny but there have been a number of times during this whole TMJD horror that I wondered if I'd be in better shape if I had a dog. There's something calming about patting a dog and looking into their sweet faces.
I wish I knew what to do. This guy's rates are outrageous and it's doubtful my insurance will pay much, if anything. Apart from the splint, I got the impression that this dentist assesses me each visit and then decides what treatment I should have that day. He said each person's case is individual, so it's probably impossible to get a predetermination from him to submit to the insurance.
I liked this dentist on a personal level. He seemed decent and like a regular guy. It sounds like he does a lot of research and tries to keep up on issues. So, I'm arguing with myself that I shouldn't make a decision based on personality. Neuro #1 was pleasant enough, not a lot of personality, but so what. He could still be a terrific dentist. He was LVI trained, so we know what to expect much more than with neuro #3. Neuro #1 could probably do a predetermination and his rates shouldn't end up nearly as high as the one I saw today. Neuro #1 doesn't look at the whole body picture...but then, does that really matter. $3,800 is a lot of money to put up front without any services having been rendered. What happens if I put it out and find myself dissatisfied after just one appt. I'll be out over $4,000. That's a scary thought. If money were no object, I'd try #3. I'll have to give this lots of thought. I may post his name and see if anyone knows him. I've done internet searches but nothing's turned up.
The teeth thing does concern me. This dentist said everything shifts around. I know teeth aren't static, but how much do they shift around, although I've been dealing with this for 20 mths now, so they could have moved quite a bit. This is a question I may put to neuro #1 to see his response. From all I've read, it just sounded like once the jaw and muscles are stable, you're still dealing with your original bite, but if your teeth have been grinded/adjusted, you may need to correct that. Diane? what do you think? Has Dr. Brookover ever mentioned anything like this?
I have an appt with neuro #3 next Wed. (don't know yet if I'll be going or cancelling??). He would do a complete exam, charting all the teeth, full x-rays, and models. He asked if I'd have models done before, and if so, could I get them and bring them in. My next appt with neuro #1 is a month after my consult appt. I'd have thought they could fit me in sooner. I mean, how many people are they treating who've been going through h-ll for almost 2 years? Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that way, because the world doesn't revolve around me, but you would hope they'd try. I didn't feel good about that at the time.
Anyway, must start getting ready for bed. It's been a full day. Oh, I just noticed Navy's posting. It wasn't there when I started. Hi Navy. Can't help you with the sonogram. I don't think I've had one. I had a doppler device (like a wand) which measured sound in my joints, but I don't know if it had a printout. Someone here will be able to tell you about it. I'm glad you've found a good neuro dentist who can help.
Hugs to all,
Arleen
CherylLynn24
07-03-2003, 04:16 AM
Hi Arleen!
Cheryl
Cheryl
totallyconfused
07-03-2003, 10:14 AM
Hi everyone!!
I am running late and shouldn't even be on here, but I had to check on you ladies. This will be my last post until after the weekend. Arleen, I'll be back sometime Sunday. Wow!! This guy must be a fabulous thinker. I can't believe anyone would charge that much just to think about your case. Seriously!! It's true that some of the splint is included, but the prices are VERY steep!! I mean, for $600/appt. you should get adjustments, accupuncture, massage, champagne and caviar to boot!! Goodness!! I'm sorry that you really like this guy and he is so over the top. I know I personally couldn't afford him, as my insurance would think his rates were unreasonable. Good luck with your decision!! :) Oh, it is my understanding that when your jaw is moved or repositioned, most likely your teeth will not fit together the same way anymore. Then, you must decide if you are going to change your bite in whatever way is necessary, or not. Not a fun prospect, I know!!
Cheryl, have a great weekend. Don't be chasing that poor puppy around the yard all day...it's too hot for that!! :) Hope you have some veggies left after the puppy gets through with them. Hope you all have a good time at the BBQ.
Navy, I hope I didn't worry you. My dentist told me that the level of degeneration in my left joint was more than you would see on a normal 70 year old. I still don't understand it, as one second it can tell you one thing, and the next second it is doubling the numbers, who knows!! Try not to worry about it and have a great weekend.
Diane, once again, have a great weekend and try to get some well-deserved relaxation!! Keep feeling wonderful!!
Take care,
TC
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-28-2003).]
I am running late and shouldn't even be on here, but I had to check on you ladies. This will be my last post until after the weekend. Arleen, I'll be back sometime Sunday. Wow!! This guy must be a fabulous thinker. I can't believe anyone would charge that much just to think about your case. Seriously!! It's true that some of the splint is included, but the prices are VERY steep!! I mean, for $600/appt. you should get adjustments, accupuncture, massage, champagne and caviar to boot!! Goodness!! I'm sorry that you really like this guy and he is so over the top. I know I personally couldn't afford him, as my insurance would think his rates were unreasonable. Good luck with your decision!! :) Oh, it is my understanding that when your jaw is moved or repositioned, most likely your teeth will not fit together the same way anymore. Then, you must decide if you are going to change your bite in whatever way is necessary, or not. Not a fun prospect, I know!!
Cheryl, have a great weekend. Don't be chasing that poor puppy around the yard all day...it's too hot for that!! :) Hope you have some veggies left after the puppy gets through with them. Hope you all have a good time at the BBQ.
Navy, I hope I didn't worry you. My dentist told me that the level of degeneration in my left joint was more than you would see on a normal 70 year old. I still don't understand it, as one second it can tell you one thing, and the next second it is doubling the numbers, who knows!! Try not to worry about it and have a great weekend.
Diane, once again, have a great weekend and try to get some well-deserved relaxation!! Keep feeling wonderful!!
Take care,
TC
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-28-2003).]
Marlene
07-03-2003, 11:54 AM
Arleen,
This is just my 2 cents worth:
$3800 downpayment UP FRONT?? I'd be somewhat "suspicious" of that. Most, if not all dentists will offer a monthly payment plan (kind of "pay as you go"). You said you were told that money was for "time spent not in the office thinking about your case" - Huh??
$600 for each appointment?? That's extreme in my opinion.
Not sure if you'll be able to get a cost predetermination from him? ANY dentist that's dealt with insurance companies generally knows that beyond a certain dollar limit, insurance companies require a predetermination. If he won't give you one, that in itself should tell you something.
A friendly dentist with a cozy office does not necessarily indicate a "good" dentist. Quite often, it's been my experience that dentists with a bit of an "attitude" are that way because they're "good" (and they know it!). While "chairside manner" is a plus, it's not everything in my book.
Marlene
[This message has been edited by Marlene (edited 07-03-2003).]
This is just my 2 cents worth:
$3800 downpayment UP FRONT?? I'd be somewhat "suspicious" of that. Most, if not all dentists will offer a monthly payment plan (kind of "pay as you go"). You said you were told that money was for "time spent not in the office thinking about your case" - Huh??
$600 for each appointment?? That's extreme in my opinion.
Not sure if you'll be able to get a cost predetermination from him? ANY dentist that's dealt with insurance companies generally knows that beyond a certain dollar limit, insurance companies require a predetermination. If he won't give you one, that in itself should tell you something.
A friendly dentist with a cozy office does not necessarily indicate a "good" dentist. Quite often, it's been my experience that dentists with a bit of an "attitude" are that way because they're "good" (and they know it!). While "chairside manner" is a plus, it's not everything in my book.
Marlene
[This message has been edited by Marlene (edited 07-03-2003).]
PINKYPRISCILLA
07-03-2003, 12:24 PM
I agree with Marlene that is really steep. My first consult was free.
DianeTMJ
07-03-2003, 01:40 PM
Good morning Arleen -
I am going to straight the chase here, should be getting busy any time here .. waa, I want to be silly!
Okay, I read your post, then while taking my shower, I was really thinking about it. Arleen, I am concerned about a couple of things with #3.
First of all, he should always take readings from each splint adjustment, the adjustment can be such a fine adjustment. I hate to say it but it almost appears that he may have an ego thing going on. :-(
Okay, the next is worrisome as well. Okay, I understand the $3,800.00 that SHOULD be for all of the testing, which should be about 3 hours and then the making of the splint. It also includes adjustments of 6 months, of which each time he will take anywhere from 1.5 hours to 2, using all of the equipment to ensure a proper adjustment. The cost: $4800.00 (Hey CHeryl, you were right, I sometimes include the cost of the myotronic tens unit).
Now, I know each office is going to charge differently, but this just seems so odd. As I understand it, $3,800.00 but does not include the "lab Fee" or any adjustments. However there are no charges for adjustments, however each visit is then $600.00? So.. how is the adjustment free?
Oh Arleen, I do not mean to throw anymore confusion into your life, I would just hate for you to get committed to this guy and find out he is not doing all that you need to get healthy.
I would call the office, I would ask for real specific charge break down, what is and is not included etc etc.
I am trying to remember the pro-cons of the nuero#1, as I recall, a cold staff. Not very friendly. But how about the Dr. himself? I can't remember...
Once you get the actual costs, then I would do a pro-con list of each Dr. Remembering that the office appearance and cost are not as important as to the actual Dr himself.
Oh Arleen, I hope you are not angry with me, but there just is something that is not ringing true for me with #3 unless we can get some clear understanding about fees and the not doing the readings for each adjustment.
Hugs Arleen!
Diane
I am going to straight the chase here, should be getting busy any time here .. waa, I want to be silly!
Okay, I read your post, then while taking my shower, I was really thinking about it. Arleen, I am concerned about a couple of things with #3.
First of all, he should always take readings from each splint adjustment, the adjustment can be such a fine adjustment. I hate to say it but it almost appears that he may have an ego thing going on. :-(
Okay, the next is worrisome as well. Okay, I understand the $3,800.00 that SHOULD be for all of the testing, which should be about 3 hours and then the making of the splint. It also includes adjustments of 6 months, of which each time he will take anywhere from 1.5 hours to 2, using all of the equipment to ensure a proper adjustment. The cost: $4800.00 (Hey CHeryl, you were right, I sometimes include the cost of the myotronic tens unit).
Now, I know each office is going to charge differently, but this just seems so odd. As I understand it, $3,800.00 but does not include the "lab Fee" or any adjustments. However there are no charges for adjustments, however each visit is then $600.00? So.. how is the adjustment free?
Oh Arleen, I do not mean to throw anymore confusion into your life, I would just hate for you to get committed to this guy and find out he is not doing all that you need to get healthy.
I would call the office, I would ask for real specific charge break down, what is and is not included etc etc.
I am trying to remember the pro-cons of the nuero#1, as I recall, a cold staff. Not very friendly. But how about the Dr. himself? I can't remember...
Once you get the actual costs, then I would do a pro-con list of each Dr. Remembering that the office appearance and cost are not as important as to the actual Dr himself.
Oh Arleen, I hope you are not angry with me, but there just is something that is not ringing true for me with #3 unless we can get some clear understanding about fees and the not doing the readings for each adjustment.
Hugs Arleen!
Diane
Al4
07-03-2003, 05:05 PM
Charges from these neuro dentists can vary a lot, depending on skills, experience, time spent taking measurements and adjustments, etc. I was quoted $3600 for visit/tests/measurements/splint/adjustments by one LVI trained doctor, that I would consider middle of the road in skills and experience. There are additional charges after a limited number of adjustments. Another doc in CA, who teaches at LVI and that I would consider good, quoted me $5500.00, which includes a few adjustements. The best and most skilled of them all, Dr. Chan, director of LVI, quoted me $8000 for everything plus three adjustment visits (all paid in advance in first visit). Any additional visits cost $500.00 each.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Al4 (edited 07-03-2003).]
Alex
[This message has been edited by Al4 (edited 07-03-2003).]
GenDen
07-03-2003, 08:57 PM
I hate to be the negative voice, but the price sounds excessive to me. Sounds like he has packaged his whole practice to go for the big bucks. How much are we willing to pay for the "nice bedside manner" and the ambience? At those prices, he SHOULD be willing to listen to you all day. At how much an hour? Call and check on the prices and add it all up.
GenDen
07-03-2003, 09:14 PM
By the way I went to a TMJ specialist four years ago. He had a picture of himself and Janet Travell that Janet had signed on his wall. For a minute I thought it was the same guy, but then you gave a more specific description and it isn't. He did nothing for me and I paid a fortune for the privilege.
amateurdoc
07-03-2003, 09:29 PM
Has anyone read "The King of Torts?" I understand neuromuscular dentistry has helped many people on this board, and we may also be seeking help in that area, but when I read that book, there was a scene where all these tort lawyers met at these seminars to learn, not how to be better attorneys, but how to MAKE MORE MONEY! They would discuss the latest fad (sound familiar?) in mass tort, and how to exponentialize (is that a word?) their profits. I get some of the same feeling when I picture the LVI crowd. They know people are in pain and are desperate for help. They throw in these fancy gadgets in the name of science and then use, with some minor adjustments (which may or may not be the key to the "cure"), the same techniques which have been around for years, and THEN figure out how far they can push the patient monetarily before he or she squeals like a pig. Again, I'm not dissing (how do you like that? 41 years old and trying to use 90's lingo) on NM dentists in general--then again, maybe I am. We have gone to one for a (free) consultation, and will go for the initial exam ($200+), because we are in the desperate category. But by the time we get the splint, we will have shelled out $4500. Each appt. after that is about $300. He says appt. 2 weeks after splint, then monthly after that for 3-6 months. Obviously, if this is The One (if I'm in the Matrix right now I wish someone would change the freakin' program), it's well worth it. But no guarantees. And so it goes (who knows that reference?). Take care all, and have a great 4th--oh, I forgot we had Canadians on the board. Oh well, y'all have a great 4th too!
Arleen
07-03-2003, 09:49 PM
Hi Everyone:
Thank you so much for all your thoughtful and insightful comments. I'm so lucky to have friends like you. Diane, I could never be angry with you, or anyone on the board. I want your honest opinions and I appreciate that you feel comfortable enough to give them to me. I was telling my money tree about neuro #3's charges. Well, the currency slowly started curling at the edges, until each piece was a tight, round ball. My tree's in shock! The tree paramedics were here today administering oxygen and drugs, and the tree's finally stabilized. It's been a rough day on the foliage front :D
I liked neuro #3s personality, his holistic approach, the feel of the office, etc. but like Marlene and Diane mentioned, personality isn't the major consideration. And Cheryl, thanks for the math, $11,000 :eek: Diane, you mentioned ego. I think there was ego but in a more subtle way. Prior to my appt. he'd asked for a list of the dentists' I'd seen. I told him when I first spoke to him that I was reluctant to provide that and why. At the start of my appt he asked again and I told him again how I felt. An hour later he asked again. I gave it to him at this point, he looked it over briefly and made a few insignificant comments. If I said I wasn't comfortable providing it-twice-I think that should have been enough. I guess, too, his fees reflect ego. I'm not putting him down for this. He's probably very good and deserves to charge those prices. Unfortunately, even my money tree can't meet his prices.
TC, you really cracked me up - he didn't mention champagne and caviar being included in the price. I hope at the moment, you're having a terrific visit with your mother. Diane, Marlene, Alex, thanks for your comments on cost. Diane, it was helpful to know what you're paying, and Cheryl as well, and Alex, very interesting about Dr. Chan. I also won't be going to him. Can you imagine, $8,000 up front! I have an appt booked with neuro #3 for next week that I'll have to cancel. I don't know what I'll say, as I want to leave this option open, just in case.
I called neuro #1's office to clarify costs. My initial visit/consult was $30 (very fair). My next visit (full exam, 16 x-rays, impressions, bite registration) is $277. The splint is $4,000, which covers the long 2 hour+ tracking/scanning appt and all adjustment appts. The person I've been speaking to isn't the office manager, she's the "treatment coordinator." She said they'd try to fit me in sooner than July 21, but can't guarantee. I asked how quickly I'd get in for the long appt, since the dentist has to work with the lab person's schedule, because both will be there. Apparently the machine (I'm not sure which one) doesn't live in the office, but comes over from the lab. She said the dentist will be able to discuss the lab person's availability with me at my next appt, but that all these technical appts are done Fridays. I asked if the dentist uses the machines each adjustment and was told she thinks so but to write that question down for my next appt. I somehow feel comforted that LVI trained grads seem to follow a set course with treatment. I was also concerned when neuro #3 said that it would be a long process, likely minimum a year. Most of you are told to wear the splint 3-6 months, and then bite adjustments if necessary.
So, my dental interviews are over. Yippee! Now on to treatment and hopefully feeling better. I want to eat tortilla chips too, and drink from a straw. Neuro #1's office is sending a predetermination to my insurance company, who'll notify me by mail of what they'll cover. She also suggested seeing if I have extended health benefits (I don't think so) as they're currently working with a patient trying to get them coverage this way.
And now, how's everyone else doing? Diane, I hate to think I held you back from being silly today. Everyone must have silliness in their life everyday - at least that's my motto. And Cheryl, I laughed just trying to picture you holding a cage, saying "here skunky, here skunky, come to momma." I'm sure you've got nothing better to do with your time. Watching Mike's sleeping habits by night and trapping skunks by day. What a life :)
Hugs to all,
Arleen
Thank you so much for all your thoughtful and insightful comments. I'm so lucky to have friends like you. Diane, I could never be angry with you, or anyone on the board. I want your honest opinions and I appreciate that you feel comfortable enough to give them to me. I was telling my money tree about neuro #3's charges. Well, the currency slowly started curling at the edges, until each piece was a tight, round ball. My tree's in shock! The tree paramedics were here today administering oxygen and drugs, and the tree's finally stabilized. It's been a rough day on the foliage front :D
I liked neuro #3s personality, his holistic approach, the feel of the office, etc. but like Marlene and Diane mentioned, personality isn't the major consideration. And Cheryl, thanks for the math, $11,000 :eek: Diane, you mentioned ego. I think there was ego but in a more subtle way. Prior to my appt. he'd asked for a list of the dentists' I'd seen. I told him when I first spoke to him that I was reluctant to provide that and why. At the start of my appt he asked again and I told him again how I felt. An hour later he asked again. I gave it to him at this point, he looked it over briefly and made a few insignificant comments. If I said I wasn't comfortable providing it-twice-I think that should have been enough. I guess, too, his fees reflect ego. I'm not putting him down for this. He's probably very good and deserves to charge those prices. Unfortunately, even my money tree can't meet his prices.
TC, you really cracked me up - he didn't mention champagne and caviar being included in the price. I hope at the moment, you're having a terrific visit with your mother. Diane, Marlene, Alex, thanks for your comments on cost. Diane, it was helpful to know what you're paying, and Cheryl as well, and Alex, very interesting about Dr. Chan. I also won't be going to him. Can you imagine, $8,000 up front! I have an appt booked with neuro #3 for next week that I'll have to cancel. I don't know what I'll say, as I want to leave this option open, just in case.
I called neuro #1's office to clarify costs. My initial visit/consult was $30 (very fair). My next visit (full exam, 16 x-rays, impressions, bite registration) is $277. The splint is $4,000, which covers the long 2 hour+ tracking/scanning appt and all adjustment appts. The person I've been speaking to isn't the office manager, she's the "treatment coordinator." She said they'd try to fit me in sooner than July 21, but can't guarantee. I asked how quickly I'd get in for the long appt, since the dentist has to work with the lab person's schedule, because both will be there. Apparently the machine (I'm not sure which one) doesn't live in the office, but comes over from the lab. She said the dentist will be able to discuss the lab person's availability with me at my next appt, but that all these technical appts are done Fridays. I asked if the dentist uses the machines each adjustment and was told she thinks so but to write that question down for my next appt. I somehow feel comforted that LVI trained grads seem to follow a set course with treatment. I was also concerned when neuro #3 said that it would be a long process, likely minimum a year. Most of you are told to wear the splint 3-6 months, and then bite adjustments if necessary.
So, my dental interviews are over. Yippee! Now on to treatment and hopefully feeling better. I want to eat tortilla chips too, and drink from a straw. Neuro #1's office is sending a predetermination to my insurance company, who'll notify me by mail of what they'll cover. She also suggested seeing if I have extended health benefits (I don't think so) as they're currently working with a patient trying to get them coverage this way.
And now, how's everyone else doing? Diane, I hate to think I held you back from being silly today. Everyone must have silliness in their life everyday - at least that's my motto. And Cheryl, I laughed just trying to picture you holding a cage, saying "here skunky, here skunky, come to momma." I'm sure you've got nothing better to do with your time. Watching Mike's sleeping habits by night and trapping skunks by day. What a life :)
Hugs to all,
Arleen
Arleen
07-03-2003, 09:56 PM
Hi GenDen and Amateurdoc:
Your posts weren't there when I wrote my last message. Thanks for the comments. Like every profession, I think there are always those willing to take advantage of people who will pay huge amounts, and we're more vulnerable because we're in pain. But I don't think the NM are alone on that. I've seen 15+ dentists in the last year and a half. Three dentists didn't charge me for some appts (I guess they felt bad for me) and then there were several that was overcharged, and of course, there were the middle of the road ones who charged around what the current dental fee schedule recommends.
Amateurdoc - there is one NM in Ontario that now gives seminars to others on how to bring in $250+ a year!! So, you're not wrong, but each dentist lives with his or her conscience and does what is right for them. I guess our job is to pick out the good ones from the bad.
Hope you're both doing well. GenDen, funny about the Janet Travell thing, huh?
Arleen
Your posts weren't there when I wrote my last message. Thanks for the comments. Like every profession, I think there are always those willing to take advantage of people who will pay huge amounts, and we're more vulnerable because we're in pain. But I don't think the NM are alone on that. I've seen 15+ dentists in the last year and a half. Three dentists didn't charge me for some appts (I guess they felt bad for me) and then there were several that was overcharged, and of course, there were the middle of the road ones who charged around what the current dental fee schedule recommends.
Amateurdoc - there is one NM in Ontario that now gives seminars to others on how to bring in $250+ a year!! So, you're not wrong, but each dentist lives with his or her conscience and does what is right for them. I guess our job is to pick out the good ones from the bad.
Hope you're both doing well. GenDen, funny about the Janet Travell thing, huh?
Arleen
DianeTMJ
07-03-2003, 10:08 PM
If there is one thing that we have found out over the last 2 years, most of the dental world is just how they can get the money in, not just limited to nueromuscular dentistry. I had a $4,500 surgery, straight out of our pocket last October, was going to elminate my pain, did it...NO, did he say I had TMJ, NO, my symptoms and pain only became worse after the surgery. Could any dentist help me before I found the nueromuscular dentist 2 hours away. No, not one of the 13 dentists even had a clue I had TMJ but they were most certainly willing to take our hard earned money for what they thought my problem was. It was not until the 13th dentist that I knew what was destroying my life, TMJD. Did the dentist they recommend to me have any nueromuscular back ground... no he did not, his charge to simply walk in the his front door was $1,600.00 cold cash. No give on the figure at all. There was no consultation available. I either paid the $1,600.00 up front, then another $2,000 after he built me a splint. I understand your frustration, we have certainly gone through ours, but I also think it is unfair to put nuerosmucular dentistry on the hot seat, it should be all of the dentistry fields, because believe me, I saw them and they all knew just what it would take to make me feel better, all we had to do was write the check.
I respect your concerns, I respect your frustration, we have all been there. I can only say what my NM dentist has done for me, he has given my life back to me, I am out of pain, I am symptom free 99.9999% of the time, not any other dentist could do that for me. I really hope your appt and treatments go well. I believe 100% in nueromusculary dentistry, it took a woman who only wanted to die and made her happy and giggley again. I can drink through a straw again too :0)
I agree, the dental field is the fastest, quickest way for professionals to "get rich".. we actually thought about opening our own dental practice for about 2 years, it would probably take that long for the state to realize we were in business, do the simple things charge through the nose, close our doors and head south and live in a villa or two for the rest of our lives! joking of course. :round: :round:
I hope you are not put out by my response.
I also think they know they have us, they know we will do anything to have a good end to our pain and suffering and they can charge what they want to. I certainly wouldn't want their karma.
I respect your concerns, I respect your frustration, we have all been there. I can only say what my NM dentist has done for me, he has given my life back to me, I am out of pain, I am symptom free 99.9999% of the time, not any other dentist could do that for me. I really hope your appt and treatments go well. I believe 100% in nueromusculary dentistry, it took a woman who only wanted to die and made her happy and giggley again. I can drink through a straw again too :0)
I agree, the dental field is the fastest, quickest way for professionals to "get rich".. we actually thought about opening our own dental practice for about 2 years, it would probably take that long for the state to realize we were in business, do the simple things charge through the nose, close our doors and head south and live in a villa or two for the rest of our lives! joking of course. :round: :round:
I hope you are not put out by my response.
I also think they know they have us, they know we will do anything to have a good end to our pain and suffering and they can charge what they want to. I certainly wouldn't want their karma.
DianeTMJ
07-03-2003, 10:18 PM
Hi Arleen!
Yahoo! I am so glad you are going with door #1! This has become a hot topic this evening!
Oh sweet Arleen, I couldn't be silly earlier because the gallery was so swamped I thought I should get straight to the point before the next crowd came in.
Oh NOOOO your poor money tree :0( - waaa, it is going to survive though? Just to much shock huh?
You have a good night Arleen, hugs, hugs, hugs. You must feel so much better in knowing who the winner is!
Take care
Diane
[This message has been edited by DianeTMJ (edited 10-28-2003).]
Yahoo! I am so glad you are going with door #1! This has become a hot topic this evening!
Oh sweet Arleen, I couldn't be silly earlier because the gallery was so swamped I thought I should get straight to the point before the next crowd came in.
Oh NOOOO your poor money tree :0( - waaa, it is going to survive though? Just to much shock huh?
You have a good night Arleen, hugs, hugs, hugs. You must feel so much better in knowing who the winner is!
Take care
Diane
[This message has been edited by DianeTMJ (edited 10-28-2003).]
Arleen
07-03-2003, 10:40 PM
Hi Diane:
It's great to hear from you. I've missed your regular posts on the board, but it's good to know that you and Al are very busy. You're right, I'm relieved that I've made a choice and can now proceed with treatment. I'm also relieved that I have a good idea of what that treatment will be. Another good thing is that you've been through it, and you're a great support and friend. Also, Cheryl's Mike is going through it (not too far till the 11th). Robyn starts, I think on the 12th. Navy's already had 2 appts!! It will be fun to share all our "adventures" with each other.
A 4th of July parade sounds like fun and maybe it will be more than a few minutes long. The place you live sounds so wonderful every time your describe it. I can't wait to see my hacienda room, and my horse, and of course, you and Al and Rags (especially now that Rags has been to the hairdresser).
(((((((((Diane))))))))))))))))
Arleen
It's great to hear from you. I've missed your regular posts on the board, but it's good to know that you and Al are very busy. You're right, I'm relieved that I've made a choice and can now proceed with treatment. I'm also relieved that I have a good idea of what that treatment will be. Another good thing is that you've been through it, and you're a great support and friend. Also, Cheryl's Mike is going through it (not too far till the 11th). Robyn starts, I think on the 12th. Navy's already had 2 appts!! It will be fun to share all our "adventures" with each other.
A 4th of July parade sounds like fun and maybe it will be more than a few minutes long. The place you live sounds so wonderful every time your describe it. I can't wait to see my hacienda room, and my horse, and of course, you and Al and Rags (especially now that Rags has been to the hairdresser).
(((((((((Diane))))))))))))))))
Arleen
amateurdoc
07-03-2003, 10:50 PM
Diane,
I'm sure you can understand how so very happy we all are to hear you are 99.999999999999% (too many 9's?) pain-free. You give us hope. But I have to disagree on one point--with interest rates where they are today, the mortgage industry is the fastest way to get-rich-quick. Dentistry is a close second, though. We were told by the NM that at his practice everyone is like family, that he doesn't have an overabundance of patients. Hell, at those prices, he 1) doesn't need them, and 2) most people won't pay that much anyway! But truly, I am looking forward to the day when my wife can say she is 99.% pain-free, and am going through with this course of treatment because of the success stories on this board. One thing that worries me though, is that she has had the TENS before and couldn't stand it. I understand some patients feel irritability with it at first. Did you?
Dan
I'm sure you can understand how so very happy we all are to hear you are 99.999999999999% (too many 9's?) pain-free. You give us hope. But I have to disagree on one point--with interest rates where they are today, the mortgage industry is the fastest way to get-rich-quick. Dentistry is a close second, though. We were told by the NM that at his practice everyone is like family, that he doesn't have an overabundance of patients. Hell, at those prices, he 1) doesn't need them, and 2) most people won't pay that much anyway! But truly, I am looking forward to the day when my wife can say she is 99.% pain-free, and am going through with this course of treatment because of the success stories on this board. One thing that worries me though, is that she has had the TENS before and couldn't stand it. I understand some patients feel irritability with it at first. Did you?
Dan
DianeTMJ
07-03-2003, 11:37 PM
(((((Arleen)))))))
It is going to be so exciting watching everyone progress over the next few months, I hope all have as much success as I have had.
You have a good nite Arleen - don't stay up too late!
Hugs
Diane
[This message has been edited by DianeTMJ (edited 10-28-2003).]
It is going to be so exciting watching everyone progress over the next few months, I hope all have as much success as I have had.
You have a good nite Arleen - don't stay up too late!
Hugs
Diane
[This message has been edited by DianeTMJ (edited 10-28-2003).]
DianeTMJ
07-03-2003, 11:46 PM
Hey Dan-
Oh boy, you got that right on mortgage industry is running first, with the dental world right on their heals. It is a real problem in our state as well. Not enough population, poor state and for some reason you only get the bottom of ther barrell for dentists and doctors and then on top of that, they charge terrible prices. Just had friend who needed a root canal and crown, best price he could find here was $2,300.00. So he went back home to Ok. and got it all done for $1000.00! Hmmmmmmm.
Okay, the tens unit, let your wife know, it is not anything like the regular tens units, she will find it soothing. Does not irriate me at all, in fact, I was told yesterday that I look 20 years younger! I had a friend who had a regular tens unit and she put it on my face like the myotronic one and I screamed and ripped it off my face, it was just awful, terrible. This one is designed for TMJ patients.
So now when do you see the NM? If she is in really, really bad pain, see if they will lend you a tens, have her try it in the office though. I was feeling relief within 2 hours.
Have a good night
Diane
Oh boy, you got that right on mortgage industry is running first, with the dental world right on their heals. It is a real problem in our state as well. Not enough population, poor state and for some reason you only get the bottom of ther barrell for dentists and doctors and then on top of that, they charge terrible prices. Just had friend who needed a root canal and crown, best price he could find here was $2,300.00. So he went back home to Ok. and got it all done for $1000.00! Hmmmmmmm.
Okay, the tens unit, let your wife know, it is not anything like the regular tens units, she will find it soothing. Does not irriate me at all, in fact, I was told yesterday that I look 20 years younger! I had a friend who had a regular tens unit and she put it on my face like the myotronic one and I screamed and ripped it off my face, it was just awful, terrible. This one is designed for TMJ patients.
So now when do you see the NM? If she is in really, really bad pain, see if they will lend you a tens, have her try it in the office though. I was feeling relief within 2 hours.
Have a good night
Diane
amateurdoc
07-04-2003, 12:05 AM
Diane,
We see the NM again Monday PM, for a full exam, excluding neuromuscular workup, which he says he would schedule afterward if warranted (to which my cynical self would reply I'm sure it will be). NM workup to take a full morning. Good news on the TENS. She is terribly worried about this. Approximately two weeks after NM work until splint. I am terribly impatient, though, and will do anything I can to speed that process. Did the splint irritate you, or cause you increased discomfort, when you first put it in? I seem to remember you saying it was like a revelation SOON after putting it in. How soon? Remember...I said I was impatient. I know folks have been dealing with this a lot longer than we have, but 18 months is enough! Seeing her in pain is awful, but watching her depression is the toughest part.
Thanks very much for the info... and the realization that life does not have to be over.
Dan
We see the NM again Monday PM, for a full exam, excluding neuromuscular workup, which he says he would schedule afterward if warranted (to which my cynical self would reply I'm sure it will be). NM workup to take a full morning. Good news on the TENS. She is terribly worried about this. Approximately two weeks after NM work until splint. I am terribly impatient, though, and will do anything I can to speed that process. Did the splint irritate you, or cause you increased discomfort, when you first put it in? I seem to remember you saying it was like a revelation SOON after putting it in. How soon? Remember...I said I was impatient. I know folks have been dealing with this a lot longer than we have, but 18 months is enough! Seeing her in pain is awful, but watching her depression is the toughest part.
Thanks very much for the info... and the realization that life does not have to be over.
Dan
Arleen
07-04-2003, 12:08 AM
Hi Diane:
I watched The Hours last night. After all, I'd already been to the dentist, so what' a little more depression. Have you seen it? Tonight I was going to watch "Two Weeks Notice" but I've been on the phone with a friend for the past hour (thankfully I can do that tonight as my teeth and gums aren't killing me today) and time is slipping away as I've got to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight. Acupuncture tomorrow morning and I like to be awake for the drive there :)
Have a nice evening, what's left of it.
Arleen
I watched The Hours last night. After all, I'd already been to the dentist, so what' a little more depression. Have you seen it? Tonight I was going to watch "Two Weeks Notice" but I've been on the phone with a friend for the past hour (thankfully I can do that tonight as my teeth and gums aren't killing me today) and time is slipping away as I've got to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight. Acupuncture tomorrow morning and I like to be awake for the drive there :)
Have a nice evening, what's left of it.
Arleen
DianeTMJ
07-04-2003, 12:55 AM
Hi Dan -
I was in tears reading your message. I know where she is, I was there just a month or so ago. Depression is something that just doesn't happen to me, I was born with a love for life, a smile on my face and just loved to laugh. Not over the last two years though. Wondering what was I going to wake up to, how was I going to feel. Awful, just awful, the pain, unbelievable pain, and my husband, what a man, he has been by my side, loving, supporting, fighting for me, I am the luckiest woman in the world. He is a glass blower, he is extremely intelligent, science, being a big love in his life and when he met the nueromusuclar dentist and they spoke through the testing process, Al was confident this was the man to give my life back to me. He did Dan, he really, really did. I wake up listening to the birds, a love of mine, a smile on my face and ready to face the day and not fearful I will not be able to speak after 2 in the afternoon, I can talk, laugh all I want to now.
Okay, when he fit the splint, it took about 48 hours for me to get really adjusted to it. But it was never painful, just getting use to it. I never thought I would be happy with a hunk of acrylic in my mouth, but it just simply a part of me now.
Dan, be sure this dentist really cares, my guy will bend over backwards for me, he does not want me in any pain, he really wants me well. Once she has that splint, if it starts feeling funny, call right away, and, a big thing Dan, if she can tolerate the tens unit, which I am pretty sure she will, if they do not have a spare one, ask immediately to purchase one, they are expensive but they are magic. One muscle along my jaw line was atrphid, I had droopy right eye, the corner turning downwards and wrinkles along my right side of my face... it is all gone. But the most important thing is the relief I felt from that tens unit. It took care of the screaming whistle in my ear, the pain, along my ear, above my ear, my right jaw and the swollen lymph nodes, no more, took care of hair, sound and light sensitivity. Then I got my splint and that is just a miracle. I also am seeing a chiro that adjusts the first rib, that took care of the remaining hissing in my ear, ALL vertigo, dizzeness and nausa, bang gone, instantly! Yahoo!
Oh, I wish I was there to give her words of encouragement, tell her to hang in there, there truly is help.
Any questions at all, you just ask.
Take care
Hi Arleen!
Oh shoot Arleen, we live about 35 minutes away from the first movie theatre, we have to drive into town, we so love our little spot on this planet, we hate to leave... so we just wait for movies to come out on dish! The last movie we saw in a theatre... are you ready.... Independance Day! That is along time ago!
We would rent movies, but once again.... we would have to drive to santa fe! Aren't we awful! What will get us into town is when the 1/2 & 1/2 for the coffee is gone, or coffee is gone or coffee filters! We will starve before leaving our little heaven!
((((((((Arleen))))))))))
Sleep tight girlfriend!
Diane
I was in tears reading your message. I know where she is, I was there just a month or so ago. Depression is something that just doesn't happen to me, I was born with a love for life, a smile on my face and just loved to laugh. Not over the last two years though. Wondering what was I going to wake up to, how was I going to feel. Awful, just awful, the pain, unbelievable pain, and my husband, what a man, he has been by my side, loving, supporting, fighting for me, I am the luckiest woman in the world. He is a glass blower, he is extremely intelligent, science, being a big love in his life and when he met the nueromusuclar dentist and they spoke through the testing process, Al was confident this was the man to give my life back to me. He did Dan, he really, really did. I wake up listening to the birds, a love of mine, a smile on my face and ready to face the day and not fearful I will not be able to speak after 2 in the afternoon, I can talk, laugh all I want to now.
Okay, when he fit the splint, it took about 48 hours for me to get really adjusted to it. But it was never painful, just getting use to it. I never thought I would be happy with a hunk of acrylic in my mouth, but it just simply a part of me now.
Dan, be sure this dentist really cares, my guy will bend over backwards for me, he does not want me in any pain, he really wants me well. Once she has that splint, if it starts feeling funny, call right away, and, a big thing Dan, if she can tolerate the tens unit, which I am pretty sure she will, if they do not have a spare one, ask immediately to purchase one, they are expensive but they are magic. One muscle along my jaw line was atrphid, I had droopy right eye, the corner turning downwards and wrinkles along my right side of my face... it is all gone. But the most important thing is the relief I felt from that tens unit. It took care of the screaming whistle in my ear, the pain, along my ear, above my ear, my right jaw and the swollen lymph nodes, no more, took care of hair, sound and light sensitivity. Then I got my splint and that is just a miracle. I also am seeing a chiro that adjusts the first rib, that took care of the remaining hissing in my ear, ALL vertigo, dizzeness and nausa, bang gone, instantly! Yahoo!
Oh, I wish I was there to give her words of encouragement, tell her to hang in there, there truly is help.
Any questions at all, you just ask.
Take care
Hi Arleen!
Oh shoot Arleen, we live about 35 minutes away from the first movie theatre, we have to drive into town, we so love our little spot on this planet, we hate to leave... so we just wait for movies to come out on dish! The last movie we saw in a theatre... are you ready.... Independance Day! That is along time ago!
We would rent movies, but once again.... we would have to drive to santa fe! Aren't we awful! What will get us into town is when the 1/2 & 1/2 for the coffee is gone, or coffee is gone or coffee filters! We will starve before leaving our little heaven!
((((((((Arleen))))))))))
Sleep tight girlfriend!
Diane
CherylLynn24
07-04-2003, 01:32 AM
:) :) :) :) :)
amateurdoc
07-04-2003, 04:59 AM
Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, etc. Diane, our pain clinic doc has a place just outside Santa Fe. He goes for the trout fishing, his wife goes for all the little shops in town. We were telling him we were going to the beach soon, at the same time he is going out there. He related how relaxing it is just looking out at the expanse of the desert, much like the ocean. Sounded very nice. I know one thing about the desert--objects in front of you are much farther than they appear. My wife and I (years ago) took a trip out to Vegas, and not being big gamblers, rented a car to check out the Dam and drive into Arizona. We came to a canyon, which we decided to check out. Being a tourist, and armed with a camera, I told my wife to go climb on "that big rock so I can get a picture of you." The rock looked fairly close, but I think it took her twenty minutes to get to it. And she is very fit. Without any food or water (we're not very bright), we hiked down the canyon to see some hot springs. We never made it (it was very late in the day), but we did come to a lake/river with the most crystal clear water I have ever seen. Anyway, I'm rambling, but it sure is beautiful out West.
Cymy Sue
07-04-2003, 06:39 AM
Hi Dan & all,
My comment regarding "The King of Torts" is a little late, but there are Seminars going on all the time instructing Dentists, TMJ Specialist and I would assume the majority of the Medical Care Provider population on how to maximize their patient load and how to increase prices and still attract potential clients. (I always thought we were Patients).
I have not made any comments on the charges that some of you have been quoted, I know you don't need the added stress, but some of them do seem to be extremely high. I know how you feel. You get to a point where you would give anything for help.
My current Splint Therapy, which included impressions, X-rays, measurements, etc., THE SPLINT, and a lot of time spent with my Dentist, time he spent consulting with other Groups and return visits was $600.00. (Altogether about 6 months which began with consultations with other groups, a lot of thought & discussion on what would work and then the impressions and splint design)
I "have" been his patient for 25 years and he may have given me a break, but I doubt it would have been several thousand dollars worth.
The most important thing is, this therapy is working after 25 years of ......everything else not.
Good luck to all,
Cymy Sue
My comment regarding "The King of Torts" is a little late, but there are Seminars going on all the time instructing Dentists, TMJ Specialist and I would assume the majority of the Medical Care Provider population on how to maximize their patient load and how to increase prices and still attract potential clients. (I always thought we were Patients).
I have not made any comments on the charges that some of you have been quoted, I know you don't need the added stress, but some of them do seem to be extremely high. I know how you feel. You get to a point where you would give anything for help.
My current Splint Therapy, which included impressions, X-rays, measurements, etc., THE SPLINT, and a lot of time spent with my Dentist, time he spent consulting with other Groups and return visits was $600.00. (Altogether about 6 months which began with consultations with other groups, a lot of thought & discussion on what would work and then the impressions and splint design)
I "have" been his patient for 25 years and he may have given me a break, but I doubt it would have been several thousand dollars worth.
The most important thing is, this therapy is working after 25 years of ......everything else not.
Good luck to all,
Cymy Sue
amateurdoc
07-04-2003, 10:17 AM
$600 seems an incredible price. Even our pain-producing splint for the upper teeth cost $825, for the splint and the first adjustment, with the initial exam $300. With the knucklehead in Jersey, the contract amount was for slightly in excess of $5000, which is probably about the same as for this new NM dentist, and we don't have to fly there, so except for the past six months of pain, emergency room visits, trip to the mental health spa one weekend, etc., etc., we're coming out on top!! Hey, gotta look for the silver lining, right?!
Cymy Sue, does your repositioning splint cover all your teeth? I love hearing these success stories--my wife reads them and feels she may be next.
Cymy Sue, does your repositioning splint cover all your teeth? I love hearing these success stories--my wife reads them and feels she may be next.
RobynRose
07-04-2003, 11:39 AM
Hi Arleen...and everyone on board here~~
I'm so sorry I haven't been keeping up with these posts --- but I was thrilled to see you made a final choice here :)
I was amazed at your description of D. #3 - I have to agree that there were just too many red flags, especially with regard to the astronomical pricing schedule he offered. He must be the NM dentist to the ***stars*** - or something along those lines. I also found it odd that GenDen's prior dentist also had the photo with Janet Travell -- seems Dr. T. really had some wide exposure... hmmmm?
In any case Areleen, you are right. My big appointmenet for testing and splint fitting will be next Saturday (the 12th). I'm to leave home at 7 am (ick - I'm so not a morning person with this pain syndrome). He said expect to be there at least 4-5 hours. I will definitely keep everyone posted. I know my case will be a bit complex because I have musculoskeletal problems throughout my spine, and I'm not sure if that will calm down (oh how I hope) - or flare up :( in conjunctin with the nm tratment. Even Dr. C could not promise me I'd be an easy case. All I can do is try - right?
With regard to the discussion about price and marketing practices etc. ... I will share that Dr. C's office was decorated in the style of Circa 1970's. It was obvious that he was not interested in making big bucks impresssions -- chairs and most equipment I saw looked quite ancient actually http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif.... I needed to get past that fast. Once I encountered Dr. C - I quickly realized that this man was interested in his work - helping people, and believed strongly in what he practiced. I hope my gut insincts were correct. I felt more secure with him than the D #2 who had an actual "hospitality suite" in his office.??
As I understand the fees - his "package price" is $1400 for splint, adjustments, and Tens treatment - 3 months. I am not certain about additional testing though. Also x rays are not inclueded - but I have those from consult #2 and he said those were fine to use. One other thing. Dr. C is not LVI trained specifically -- his training actually began 20 years ago with Dr. Bernard Jankelson, DMD of Seattle Washington. I believe Dr. Jankelson is the pioneer in this field of dentistry. Dr. C, however, was very supportive of LVI - and believes it is necessary to progress the training and exposure of dental professionals to the field of NM dentistry. He told me in dental school they typically spend about 15 minutes on teaching about tmj problems.??!!! Yikes.He is a professor at a University here where he teaches one rotatation and actually has the dental students experinece the entire process...Tens treatment, splint - the works. Interesting hugh?
And so... onward for many of us. I must comment that this is just such a wonderful group here. I feel very lucky to be able to come here for guidance and support- and also to help others any way I can. Diane, Cymey Sue, Marlene - and all the other success stories give us all amazing hope (and do we ever need that). TC, Arleen, Tiffany, GenDen, Amaturcoc, and others have just been so helpful and caring in sharing their experiences and knowledge.
Thanks to all -- and hopefully together we will sort out the complexities of this crazy condition!!
Happy 4th everyone!
RobynR
I'm so sorry I haven't been keeping up with these posts --- but I was thrilled to see you made a final choice here :)
I was amazed at your description of D. #3 - I have to agree that there were just too many red flags, especially with regard to the astronomical pricing schedule he offered. He must be the NM dentist to the ***stars*** - or something along those lines. I also found it odd that GenDen's prior dentist also had the photo with Janet Travell -- seems Dr. T. really had some wide exposure... hmmmm?
In any case Areleen, you are right. My big appointmenet for testing and splint fitting will be next Saturday (the 12th). I'm to leave home at 7 am (ick - I'm so not a morning person with this pain syndrome). He said expect to be there at least 4-5 hours. I will definitely keep everyone posted. I know my case will be a bit complex because I have musculoskeletal problems throughout my spine, and I'm not sure if that will calm down (oh how I hope) - or flare up :( in conjunctin with the nm tratment. Even Dr. C could not promise me I'd be an easy case. All I can do is try - right?
With regard to the discussion about price and marketing practices etc. ... I will share that Dr. C's office was decorated in the style of Circa 1970's. It was obvious that he was not interested in making big bucks impresssions -- chairs and most equipment I saw looked quite ancient actually http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif.... I needed to get past that fast. Once I encountered Dr. C - I quickly realized that this man was interested in his work - helping people, and believed strongly in what he practiced. I hope my gut insincts were correct. I felt more secure with him than the D #2 who had an actual "hospitality suite" in his office.??
As I understand the fees - his "package price" is $1400 for splint, adjustments, and Tens treatment - 3 months. I am not certain about additional testing though. Also x rays are not inclueded - but I have those from consult #2 and he said those were fine to use. One other thing. Dr. C is not LVI trained specifically -- his training actually began 20 years ago with Dr. Bernard Jankelson, DMD of Seattle Washington. I believe Dr. Jankelson is the pioneer in this field of dentistry. Dr. C, however, was very supportive of LVI - and believes it is necessary to progress the training and exposure of dental professionals to the field of NM dentistry. He told me in dental school they typically spend about 15 minutes on teaching about tmj problems.??!!! Yikes.He is a professor at a University here where he teaches one rotatation and actually has the dental students experinece the entire process...Tens treatment, splint - the works. Interesting hugh?
And so... onward for many of us. I must comment that this is just such a wonderful group here. I feel very lucky to be able to come here for guidance and support- and also to help others any way I can. Diane, Cymey Sue, Marlene - and all the other success stories give us all amazing hope (and do we ever need that). TC, Arleen, Tiffany, GenDen, Amaturcoc, and others have just been so helpful and caring in sharing their experiences and knowledge.
Thanks to all -- and hopefully together we will sort out the complexities of this crazy condition!!
Happy 4th everyone!
RobynR
totallyconfused
07-06-2003, 11:50 PM
Hi everyone!!
I'm back and trying to read a few of the posts.
Take care,
TC
I'm back and trying to read a few of the posts.
Take care,
TC
Arleen
07-07-2003, 12:13 AM
Hi TC:
It's nice to see you back on the board. Did you have a great time with your mom? How's see feeling? I'm sure you've visit cheered her up immensely. How are you feeling? and how's your son? I hope you had a great 4th of July.
I'm just getting ready for bed as I've got a doctor's appt first thing tomorrow. I haven't been on the board much this weekend, but will try to catch up with everyone tomorrow.
Take care, and welcome back :)
Arleen
It's nice to see you back on the board. Did you have a great time with your mom? How's see feeling? I'm sure you've visit cheered her up immensely. How are you feeling? and how's your son? I hope you had a great 4th of July.
I'm just getting ready for bed as I've got a doctor's appt first thing tomorrow. I haven't been on the board much this weekend, but will try to catch up with everyone tomorrow.
Take care, and welcome back :)
Arleen
CherylLynn24
07-07-2003, 01:07 AM
Hi TC,
How was your trip to see your Mother? Is she feeling better? How are you doing? We're all hanging in there. I haven't posted a whole lot lately, we've had company....until Wednesday. I do manage to post some though, usually late night! [img]http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img
Arleen,
Haven't seen you post too much...everything okay?
Diane,
Are you still good? Things calming down there at all?
I hope you've all had a good weekend.
Take Care,
Cheryl
How was your trip to see your Mother? Is she feeling better? How are you doing? We're all hanging in there. I haven't posted a whole lot lately, we've had company....until Wednesday. I do manage to post some though, usually late night! [img]http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img
Arleen,
Haven't seen you post too much...everything okay?
Diane,
Are you still good? Things calming down there at all?
I hope you've all had a good weekend.
Take Care,
Cheryl
totallyconfused
07-07-2003, 10:01 AM
Hi Arleen and Cheryl,
It is always nice to get to go visit. As for me, I'm the same. I'm going to have to talk to the dentist about that. If he insists that my muscles are relaxed, I'm going to have to suggest that the muscles must not be the cause of my symptoms then....then what? Hope you guys have a good day.
Take care,
TC
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-28-2003).]
It is always nice to get to go visit. As for me, I'm the same. I'm going to have to talk to the dentist about that. If he insists that my muscles are relaxed, I'm going to have to suggest that the muscles must not be the cause of my symptoms then....then what? Hope you guys have a good day.
Take care,
TC
[This message has been edited by totallyconfused (edited 10-28-2003).]
RobynRose
07-07-2003, 10:46 AM
Hi there TC (and hi to Diane, Arleen and Cheryl too!)
-- Just wanted to say welcome back!! Your Mom must have been so happy you and your hubby were able to visit, and help her around the house!
Thanks for your post. I am finding myself a bit anxious about this upcoming appointment. I guess I feel that my jaw condition is so similar to my spine - and I haven't made much headway with that in 9+ years. I pray that keeping these muscles in line will make all the difference. I'm just not sure that instability (from presumably loose ligaments) can be managed with the anterior repositioning splint.
You know there's all this discussion about muscles and joint lately... makes me wonder though - do you think that if the muscles are in a state of constant spasm and push/pull the joint out of alignment - the joint will eventually have "functional" problems - or arthritic changes? It seems to me this can happen.
Have you ever heard of ligaments actually tearing in the tmj area? I sometimes feel that there is a rubberband snapping around in my cheek - and wonder what on earth is really happening there?
I suppoe that if these splints do indeed take pressure off the muscles - we have our best shot at regaining a normal joint - or at least reducing the symptoms a lot. I'll take whatever I can at this point - just don't want to make myself worse.
I will be thinking of you at your appointment this week. I hope your dentist is receptive - and addresses this issue of why he doesn't use the tens therapy on a regurlar basis n(and also the sono measurements and what they really mean). I know Dr. C has his patients come in weekly for the tens therapy for the first month. If you want me to ask any more specific questions on Saturday (I'll be there 4-5 hours) - let me know!
Take good care, RobynR
[This message has been edited by RobynRose (edited 07-07-2003).]
-- Just wanted to say welcome back!! Your Mom must have been so happy you and your hubby were able to visit, and help her around the house!
Thanks for your post. I am finding myself a bit anxious about this upcoming appointment. I guess I feel that my jaw condition is so similar to my spine - and I haven't made much headway with that in 9+ years. I pray that keeping these muscles in line will make all the difference. I'm just not sure that instability (from presumably loose ligaments) can be managed with the anterior repositioning splint.
You know there's all this discussion about muscles and joint lately... makes me wonder though - do you think that if the muscles are in a state of constant spasm and push/pull the joint out of alignment - the joint will eventually have "functional" problems - or arthritic changes? It seems to me this can happen.
Have you ever heard of ligaments actually tearing in the tmj area? I sometimes feel that there is a rubberband snapping around in my cheek - and wonder what on earth is really happening there?
I suppoe that if these splints do indeed take pressure off the muscles - we have our best shot at regaining a normal joint - or at least reducing the symptoms a lot. I'll take whatever I can at this point - just don't want to make myself worse.
I will be thinking of you at your appointment this week. I hope your dentist is receptive - and addresses this issue of why he doesn't use the tens therapy on a regurlar basis n(and also the sono measurements and what they really mean). I know Dr. C has his patients come in weekly for the tens therapy for the first month. If you want me to ask any more specific questions on Saturday (I'll be there 4-5 hours) - let me know!
Take good care, RobynR
[This message has been edited by RobynRose (edited 07-07-2003).]
totallyconfused
07-07-2003, 02:44 PM
RobynR,
I sure hope this Dr. and splint work for you. I know you don't know where to turn if this doesn't work. I'm praying and keeping my fingers crossed--to cover all the bases--for you.
If you think about it, you might ask the good Dr. why the readings for the sonography can vary so much during the same testing period. If he says that it is just because you don't open your mouth the exact same way each time, or because of the disc would you ask him--how then, are they able to consider it objective--what do they compare--highest to highest, or what? Feel free to say that you have a friend who is seeing someone and had these questions. If you think about it, I'd appreciate it. I just don't know what is going on and don't know why my dentist doesn't think it is necessary for me to have the TENS adjustment at visits. It's been over 2 months and no more TENS.
Good luck at your visit. I'll let you know how mine goes.
Take care,
TC
I sure hope this Dr. and splint work for you. I know you don't know where to turn if this doesn't work. I'm praying and keeping my fingers crossed--to cover all the bases--for you.
If you think about it, you might ask the good Dr. why the readings for the sonography can vary so much during the same testing period. If he says that it is just because you don't open your mouth the exact same way each time, or because of the disc would you ask him--how then, are they able to consider it objective--what do they compare--highest to highest, or what? Feel free to say that you have a friend who is seeing someone and had these questions. If you think about it, I'd appreciate it. I just don't know what is going on and don't know why my dentist doesn't think it is necessary for me to have the TENS adjustment at visits. It's been over 2 months and no more TENS.
Good luck at your visit. I'll let you know how mine goes.
Take care,
TC
RobynRose
07-07-2003, 04:48 PM
Hi TC -
I definitely will ask about the specificity of the sonogram - and why the measurements might vary within a single testing session.
I actually just went back to my FDA transcript (I have it printed - over 100 pages!!) -and re-read what he says about the sonogram.
Seems he uses it (though I don't recall him mentioning this part at my consult) -- but after reading his rationale - it appears just to be a basic "screening device" - to alert him to a possible dysfunctin within the joint itself (as opposed to the muscles around the joint. He even states that regardless of what the sono readings are - it really doesn't change his therapy because his plan is to put the jaw position in a healthier place -- and HOPEFULLY - the joint comes along for the ride (and heals too).
Now with regard to the "sounds" -- he mentions that based on the "size" or amplitudes of the sounds - he might become aware of red flag situations that could be going on in an area that is otherwise invisible to him.
He uses an example of a patient that after a month in the splint says the headaches are better but the joint pain is terrible. This report would be cross-referenced with the sono reading - and if there were high frequencies noted there -- he might send the patient to a competent oral surgeon who would then order an MRI - and consider surgical treatment :(
Now...in your case - you are saying that in the same testing session the frequencies came up comepletely different right? This was not after TENS -- or even a splint adjustment right? IT does really make me wonder about how accurate these sono frequencies are.??
In your case - though TC, you don't have major jaw pain -- if I recall, it was mostly ear and head symptoms? When he did the exam on you, and put his fingers in your ears and pushed forward - did that kill?? It did on me :(
I am really starting to think an MRI is the way to go. This Panorex x ray shows the bone - but no soft tissue at all. The sonogram sounds to me like it's very non-specific. How does one know they don't have massive ligament tearing or damage? - For my spine - they order MRI's like it's basic stuff... with the jaw things seem much different. I may ask for an MRI on Saturday. For some reason Dr. C does not seem inclined to order these (based on the FDA material). He feels that it doesn't affect his course of treatment - so is not in his realm to send for it. Neveretheless... would be nice to know sort of as a "before" snapshot in time..and then "after" the splint therapy snapshot.
I'm rambling again...forgive me http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif
Ohhh... the phone just rang - and I answered it- yup - you guessed it - Dr. C's office. They are working on my insurance claim. Anyway - I did just ask his Manager about the sono. It will be done on Saturday.
She said it can tell the dr. a bit about what the joint is doing -- not always though. She gave me an example about whether it is bone on bone, or other that we might miss by just listening with the stethescope. It doesn't seem to be major specific though - and I will ask more ??'s of Dr. C when I'm there.
Ok... for now - you take care - thanks for those crossed fingers and prayers. I'll be doing the same for your Wednesday appointment. Let me know how it goes!
RobynR
I definitely will ask about the specificity of the sonogram - and why the measurements might vary within a single testing session.
I actually just went back to my FDA transcript (I have it printed - over 100 pages!!) -and re-read what he says about the sonogram.
Seems he uses it (though I don't recall him mentioning this part at my consult) -- but after reading his rationale - it appears just to be a basic "screening device" - to alert him to a possible dysfunctin within the joint itself (as opposed to the muscles around the joint. He even states that regardless of what the sono readings are - it really doesn't change his therapy because his plan is to put the jaw position in a healthier place -- and HOPEFULLY - the joint comes along for the ride (and heals too).
Now with regard to the "sounds" -- he mentions that based on the "size" or amplitudes of the sounds - he might become aware of red flag situations that could be going on in an area that is otherwise invisible to him.
He uses an example of a patient that after a month in the splint says the headaches are better but the joint pain is terrible. This report would be cross-referenced with the sono reading - and if there were high frequencies noted there -- he might send the patient to a competent oral surgeon who would then order an MRI - and consider surgical treatment :(
Now...in your case - you are saying that in the same testing session the frequencies came up comepletely different right? This was not after TENS -- or even a splint adjustment right? IT does really make me wonder about how accurate these sono frequencies are.??
In your case - though TC, you don't have major jaw pain -- if I recall, it was mostly ear and head symptoms? When he did the exam on you, and put his fingers in your ears and pushed forward - did that kill?? It did on me :(
I am really starting to think an MRI is the way to go. This Panorex x ray shows the bone - but no soft tissue at all. The sonogram sounds to me like it's very non-specific. How does one know they don't have massive ligament tearing or damage? - For my spine - they order MRI's like it's basic stuff... with the jaw things seem much different. I may ask for an MRI on Saturday. For some reason Dr. C does not seem inclined to order these (based on the FDA material). He feels that it doesn't affect his course of treatment - so is not in his realm to send for it. Neveretheless... would be nice to know sort of as a "before" snapshot in time..and then "after" the splint therapy snapshot.
I'm rambling again...forgive me http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif
Ohhh... the phone just rang - and I answered it- yup - you guessed it - Dr. C's office. They are working on my insurance claim. Anyway - I did just ask his Manager about the sono. It will be done on Saturday.
She said it can tell the dr. a bit about what the joint is doing -- not always though. She gave me an example about whether it is bone on bone, or other that we might miss by just listening with the stethescope. It doesn't seem to be major specific though - and I will ask more ??'s of Dr. C when I'm there.
Ok... for now - you take care - thanks for those crossed fingers and prayers. I'll be doing the same for your Wednesday appointment. Let me know how it goes!
RobynR
RobynRose
07-07-2003, 05:01 PM
me again TC -- you only did Tens at the first visit right? I'm sitting here wondering if the Tens is going to be a miracle thing for me - or ineffective.
I do know that there are successes here of people whose dentist did not use the Tens at all -- maybe Marlene...and CymySue?? Do you think thier treatment is based on the same neuromuscular approach as say Diane - Cheryl/Mike's or my upcomming plan??
Just wondering cause I was trying to imagine why your dentist hasn't had you follow up with more tens treatments??? Anyone??
Thanks all!!
I do know that there are successes here of people whose dentist did not use the Tens at all -- maybe Marlene...and CymySue?? Do you think thier treatment is based on the same neuromuscular approach as say Diane - Cheryl/Mike's or my upcomming plan??
Just wondering cause I was trying to imagine why your dentist hasn't had you follow up with more tens treatments??? Anyone??
Thanks all!!
totallyconfused
07-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Hi RobynR,
Your posts/replies are always welcome--they are NOT too long. Thank you so much for asking these questions for me. !!
TC
Your posts/replies are always welcome--they are NOT too long. Thank you so much for asking these questions for me. !!
TC