Jamie
07-05-2003, 03:38 PM
Yes, it's supposed to be "Diagnosis" :)
Hey all,
Please bear with me for the length of this post, I am curious to hear your comments & suggestions.
I had the pleasure of seeing Dr. David Rawson in London, Ontario. They have a web site under the name "Forrest City Dental". I must say, from the moment I arrived I was impressed!!!
First off, the nurse took me in to screen me with the sheets I filled out. She was impressed and actually HAPPY that I brought in a very detailed sheet of my symptoms. I had made up a list of my symptoms and brought in a chart to narrow down my area of pain and symptoms... most doctors hate that you do this.
Then, Dr. Rawson came in after about 20 mins of screening with the nurse (or Dental Assistant). I had my girlfriend with me, and from the on-set the Dr was VERY nice and VERY proffessional. He acknowledged that I wouldn't be leaving until I have all of my answers.. I was shocked. Before we even looked at my jaw, he picked up on my "stuffiness" sound and noticed a few facial features of mine that looked like I don't sleep very well. He asked me a few questions regarding the pigmintation of my gums, and asked my girlfriend some questions in regards to my sleeping patterns/habits... He then told me he suspects Sleep Apnea, and the fact that I don't breath through my nose very much, he wants to investigate that. So, I am going to a sleep clinic. For years, I have been "tired" and run down.. basically, just feeling like I fight to get through the whole day. This may be why... wow.
So, with that out of the way he took some measurements. He then had me stand up and did some tests with my hands, some neurological testing (pardon the spelling if wrong). I had my elbows on my sides, and my hands out in front of me. He pressed up against my hands to try and push them together. He told me to resist. No matter how much I resists, he pushed them together with ease. Then he grabbed some "swab sticks" (the sticks they put on your tongue when they take a peek) and broke them in a few peices and had me bite down on them. We then repeated the same test, and I was able to cause resistance and he had a harder time pushing my hands together. Excuse me as I forget the exact explanation of this, so I won't commnent and risk mis-informing you about what that means.. :)
Next we did a "TMJ Vibration test". I had what looks like "head phones" places over my TMJ area. I was then instructed to follow the screen and open and close my mouth and bang my teeth together so it'll make a louder noise, and therefore they can see on the results which are noises from my jaw and which are noises from my teeth. The results for that test, showed that they picked up on NO clicking. The clicking I hear "inside" my ears, isn't audable on the test. He explained all of that later...
Then I had Panoramic x-rays done, and some other x-rays on 3 different machines. I had to open my mouth as wide as I could for one of them, and hold it. It didn't really hurt that much during, but I felt it for the rest of the day.. that kinda hurt, but had to be done. After all of that, we waited...
Dr. Rawson then came in and we followed him to the X-RAY board. He popped on my x-rays, showing me my mouth and teeth first. My wisdom teeth are ALL impacted. The bottom right wisdom tooth is turned right against my teeth, no doubt causing pressure in that area. He suggested that ALL 4 come out. Then we looked at a root canal that I had done about 5 years ago, and he wants to see some "before & after" xrays of those before he comments, but he says that there is an area of question there, but he's waiting for the info from the doctor who did it. Now, I asked him about the wisdom teeth and addressed concern that a lot of people have "worse" problems when they have their wisodm teeth out. He agreed, however a lot of dentists take them out just because they are there or start to get a little of course. He said that if the wisdom teeth don't cause any problems, then he never takes them out. He confirmed that some people can get TMJD because of their wisdom teeth coming out, when there is no need and the body (mouth) compensates for that lost space and starts to shift things around causing the TMJ area to shift as well. Basically he said that he sees a few problems areas with me, all which could be the cause of my problems and he's going to treat them all and help me get them all treated so we can get me back on track... (I have a feeling now, that I've never really been on track!)
Next, the xray of my TMJ area. He found it interesting that the right side causes me more problems then my left. The root canal was on the right, the serverly impacted wisdom tooth was on the right and now the TMJ on the right side was basically pressed up tightly to my ear area. The best way I can explain it without drawing a picture is this... the joint as we all know is like a "ball and cup". The ball fits into the cup with space all around the cup to make an easy fit and a flawless system. The "space" around the ball is all nerves tied to your ear area. My right side has hardly any space between the ear and TMJ, meaning that any nerves in that area are pressed right up tight to the ear area and causing a "bulge" of sorts. This COULD be the cause of my ear symptoms, and explain the sensitivity to noise and fullness etc.. there are two muscles in that area that I don't recall the name of (I have read about them though, I belive they are called the "Typani" something.. anyways) he was impressed when I mentioned those muscles, as that's what he was going to say next. My left side isn't as bad, but is pressed up to the top area. There is still some space there, but it's still higher then it should be. After a few more questions.. we went back to the office.
This is where he showed me the "Orthotic", not splint that he wants to use for me. He NEVER suggests surgey unless there is a MAJOR problem that nothing else can fix. He's not confident that they exactly know what's going on with the surgey yet... I agreed that after reading some horror stories, that it almost sounds like surgeons go in there to "see what they can do". He explained that TMJD is under-studied, but they are seeing more and more cases. It's a cash cow for some doctors, and more and more cases are being found and people who have been in pain for 15 years with headaches, pain and the works all being told to "live with it" are getting treatment and having good quality of life again!
He showed me the orthotic, it would be worn 24/7. I would eat and sleep with it, and come in for adjustments. It will be on for 4 - 6 months, and will move the TMJ forward on the right side and down on the left side. I would be coming in regualarly to see him for check ups, and he's willing to bet that over that course of time I will slowly start to notice a big differnece. We asked a whole slew of questions about the orthotic... and were cofident that this is the right course of treatment.
I live about an hour and twenty minutes away from Dr. Rawson. He offered to get all of this work done by doctors in my area, but I told him that I wanted to go to the doctors that he uses, as I felt comfortable working with Dr. Rawson and I am hoping that his "network" of contacts will be as pleasureable an experience as this.. besides, I figured I would rather work with people who know Dr. Rawson and know what he's all about... The sleep clinic is in St. Thomas, the Wisdom teeth removal is in London (a Sept 15th consultation was booked). When my insurance information goes through, we will start right away on the orthotic, coming in to get a mold and the 2nd visit I will have it put on. It might be on before the wisdom teeth removal, which is fine... I am also going to see another ENT to look into my nasal passage to see if there is a reason I am a mouth breather.. if there is something inhibitating my abaility to breath effienctly. This will also give me another chance to ask more ear releated questions. He also suggested I see a chiroprator, he has one that is a specialist in dental chiropractics. He will do a complete body exam and xray to see what else could be playing tricks with my nerves and causing my problems. This is optional to me, but he suggests I give it a try if I am comfortable with it. I said I'd see what it was all about, and will take an appointment.
We then had a few more questions, and were on our way... My last question was "How confident are you that this is causing my ear problems?". He said that because I have seen 4 ENT's who said there is no ear problems there, and the fact that he sees a few red flags in reegards to my TMJ and other areas, he's VERY confident that I will notice big chances with all of this work done. I shook his hand, and told him that I couldn't thank him enough. I was there for like 2 1/2 hours, and he answered EVERYTHING! He was also a very nice guy, with a good sense of humour. The nurses was great when testing me, making sure I was ok..
Dr. Rawson was thrilled that I found him ONLINE! via his website (Forrest City Dental in London - do a search). I told him about Healthboards and he said that he loves the internet for medical information, it gets people talking and asking questions and people come to the office better educated and keep him on his toes.. he thanked me for coming in and I was off to sign my papers.
I ended up switching to Dr. Rawson as my dentist as well. It's WELL worth the drive to London!
I was happy with the costs.. for all of the xrays that were done, the orthotic fitting and adjustments and follow up appointments, the cost of treatment will be $1080.00 which is about 90% covered by my work. This price includes the $90 consulatation that I had with him that day...
I am not going to let myself get to excited about this, because if I go through all of this and nothing changes with my ears, I will be crushed. It was very nice to see physical PROOF that there is something PHYSICALLY wrong with my TMJ area and otger dental concerns that have ALL been linked to my symptoms.
I am looking forward to the treatment, and the sleep clinic as well. I have been dragging my butt for years, always thinking that it was "normal"... man, was I wrong!
If you finished reading this, what's your feedback?
Excuse the spelling and grammer mistakes, I typed this up as fast as I could... and I am not going to bother re-reading it (it's to long! haha)
So.. what do you all think?
[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 07-05-2003).]
Hey all,
Please bear with me for the length of this post, I am curious to hear your comments & suggestions.
I had the pleasure of seeing Dr. David Rawson in London, Ontario. They have a web site under the name "Forrest City Dental". I must say, from the moment I arrived I was impressed!!!
First off, the nurse took me in to screen me with the sheets I filled out. She was impressed and actually HAPPY that I brought in a very detailed sheet of my symptoms. I had made up a list of my symptoms and brought in a chart to narrow down my area of pain and symptoms... most doctors hate that you do this.
Then, Dr. Rawson came in after about 20 mins of screening with the nurse (or Dental Assistant). I had my girlfriend with me, and from the on-set the Dr was VERY nice and VERY proffessional. He acknowledged that I wouldn't be leaving until I have all of my answers.. I was shocked. Before we even looked at my jaw, he picked up on my "stuffiness" sound and noticed a few facial features of mine that looked like I don't sleep very well. He asked me a few questions regarding the pigmintation of my gums, and asked my girlfriend some questions in regards to my sleeping patterns/habits... He then told me he suspects Sleep Apnea, and the fact that I don't breath through my nose very much, he wants to investigate that. So, I am going to a sleep clinic. For years, I have been "tired" and run down.. basically, just feeling like I fight to get through the whole day. This may be why... wow.
So, with that out of the way he took some measurements. He then had me stand up and did some tests with my hands, some neurological testing (pardon the spelling if wrong). I had my elbows on my sides, and my hands out in front of me. He pressed up against my hands to try and push them together. He told me to resist. No matter how much I resists, he pushed them together with ease. Then he grabbed some "swab sticks" (the sticks they put on your tongue when they take a peek) and broke them in a few peices and had me bite down on them. We then repeated the same test, and I was able to cause resistance and he had a harder time pushing my hands together. Excuse me as I forget the exact explanation of this, so I won't commnent and risk mis-informing you about what that means.. :)
Next we did a "TMJ Vibration test". I had what looks like "head phones" places over my TMJ area. I was then instructed to follow the screen and open and close my mouth and bang my teeth together so it'll make a louder noise, and therefore they can see on the results which are noises from my jaw and which are noises from my teeth. The results for that test, showed that they picked up on NO clicking. The clicking I hear "inside" my ears, isn't audable on the test. He explained all of that later...
Then I had Panoramic x-rays done, and some other x-rays on 3 different machines. I had to open my mouth as wide as I could for one of them, and hold it. It didn't really hurt that much during, but I felt it for the rest of the day.. that kinda hurt, but had to be done. After all of that, we waited...
Dr. Rawson then came in and we followed him to the X-RAY board. He popped on my x-rays, showing me my mouth and teeth first. My wisdom teeth are ALL impacted. The bottom right wisdom tooth is turned right against my teeth, no doubt causing pressure in that area. He suggested that ALL 4 come out. Then we looked at a root canal that I had done about 5 years ago, and he wants to see some "before & after" xrays of those before he comments, but he says that there is an area of question there, but he's waiting for the info from the doctor who did it. Now, I asked him about the wisdom teeth and addressed concern that a lot of people have "worse" problems when they have their wisodm teeth out. He agreed, however a lot of dentists take them out just because they are there or start to get a little of course. He said that if the wisdom teeth don't cause any problems, then he never takes them out. He confirmed that some people can get TMJD because of their wisdom teeth coming out, when there is no need and the body (mouth) compensates for that lost space and starts to shift things around causing the TMJ area to shift as well. Basically he said that he sees a few problems areas with me, all which could be the cause of my problems and he's going to treat them all and help me get them all treated so we can get me back on track... (I have a feeling now, that I've never really been on track!)
Next, the xray of my TMJ area. He found it interesting that the right side causes me more problems then my left. The root canal was on the right, the serverly impacted wisdom tooth was on the right and now the TMJ on the right side was basically pressed up tightly to my ear area. The best way I can explain it without drawing a picture is this... the joint as we all know is like a "ball and cup". The ball fits into the cup with space all around the cup to make an easy fit and a flawless system. The "space" around the ball is all nerves tied to your ear area. My right side has hardly any space between the ear and TMJ, meaning that any nerves in that area are pressed right up tight to the ear area and causing a "bulge" of sorts. This COULD be the cause of my ear symptoms, and explain the sensitivity to noise and fullness etc.. there are two muscles in that area that I don't recall the name of (I have read about them though, I belive they are called the "Typani" something.. anyways) he was impressed when I mentioned those muscles, as that's what he was going to say next. My left side isn't as bad, but is pressed up to the top area. There is still some space there, but it's still higher then it should be. After a few more questions.. we went back to the office.
This is where he showed me the "Orthotic", not splint that he wants to use for me. He NEVER suggests surgey unless there is a MAJOR problem that nothing else can fix. He's not confident that they exactly know what's going on with the surgey yet... I agreed that after reading some horror stories, that it almost sounds like surgeons go in there to "see what they can do". He explained that TMJD is under-studied, but they are seeing more and more cases. It's a cash cow for some doctors, and more and more cases are being found and people who have been in pain for 15 years with headaches, pain and the works all being told to "live with it" are getting treatment and having good quality of life again!
He showed me the orthotic, it would be worn 24/7. I would eat and sleep with it, and come in for adjustments. It will be on for 4 - 6 months, and will move the TMJ forward on the right side and down on the left side. I would be coming in regualarly to see him for check ups, and he's willing to bet that over that course of time I will slowly start to notice a big differnece. We asked a whole slew of questions about the orthotic... and were cofident that this is the right course of treatment.
I live about an hour and twenty minutes away from Dr. Rawson. He offered to get all of this work done by doctors in my area, but I told him that I wanted to go to the doctors that he uses, as I felt comfortable working with Dr. Rawson and I am hoping that his "network" of contacts will be as pleasureable an experience as this.. besides, I figured I would rather work with people who know Dr. Rawson and know what he's all about... The sleep clinic is in St. Thomas, the Wisdom teeth removal is in London (a Sept 15th consultation was booked). When my insurance information goes through, we will start right away on the orthotic, coming in to get a mold and the 2nd visit I will have it put on. It might be on before the wisdom teeth removal, which is fine... I am also going to see another ENT to look into my nasal passage to see if there is a reason I am a mouth breather.. if there is something inhibitating my abaility to breath effienctly. This will also give me another chance to ask more ear releated questions. He also suggested I see a chiroprator, he has one that is a specialist in dental chiropractics. He will do a complete body exam and xray to see what else could be playing tricks with my nerves and causing my problems. This is optional to me, but he suggests I give it a try if I am comfortable with it. I said I'd see what it was all about, and will take an appointment.
We then had a few more questions, and were on our way... My last question was "How confident are you that this is causing my ear problems?". He said that because I have seen 4 ENT's who said there is no ear problems there, and the fact that he sees a few red flags in reegards to my TMJ and other areas, he's VERY confident that I will notice big chances with all of this work done. I shook his hand, and told him that I couldn't thank him enough. I was there for like 2 1/2 hours, and he answered EVERYTHING! He was also a very nice guy, with a good sense of humour. The nurses was great when testing me, making sure I was ok..
Dr. Rawson was thrilled that I found him ONLINE! via his website (Forrest City Dental in London - do a search). I told him about Healthboards and he said that he loves the internet for medical information, it gets people talking and asking questions and people come to the office better educated and keep him on his toes.. he thanked me for coming in and I was off to sign my papers.
I ended up switching to Dr. Rawson as my dentist as well. It's WELL worth the drive to London!
I was happy with the costs.. for all of the xrays that were done, the orthotic fitting and adjustments and follow up appointments, the cost of treatment will be $1080.00 which is about 90% covered by my work. This price includes the $90 consulatation that I had with him that day...
I am not going to let myself get to excited about this, because if I go through all of this and nothing changes with my ears, I will be crushed. It was very nice to see physical PROOF that there is something PHYSICALLY wrong with my TMJ area and otger dental concerns that have ALL been linked to my symptoms.
I am looking forward to the treatment, and the sleep clinic as well. I have been dragging my butt for years, always thinking that it was "normal"... man, was I wrong!
If you finished reading this, what's your feedback?
Excuse the spelling and grammer mistakes, I typed this up as fast as I could... and I am not going to bother re-reading it (it's to long! haha)
So.. what do you all think?
[This message has been edited by Jamie (edited 07-05-2003).]
Sponsor
crystalll
07-05-2003, 07:36 PM
Hi Jamie,
This all sounds very promising! His tests etc. seem very similar to what my specialist does, and he is also in London. I'm really excited for you. Since he was unable to detect any clicking when doing the joint vibration analysis, does that mean that your disc is in place and your TMJD is purely muscular?
The price sounds reasonable as well. You mentioned that your work will cover 90% of the treatment costs. Can you tell me if Dr. Rawson puts it through as something other than TMJD treatment? The reason I ask is because my insurance specifically excludes coverage for TMJD treatment.
I almost forgot, did he mention anything about "Phase II" treatment? Will he need to adjust your bite after you've worn the orthotic for the 4-6 months?
Anyway, I'm glad you had a positive experience, and I wish you the very best of luck in your treatment.
Take care.
Crystal
[This message has been edited by crystalll (edited 07-05-2003).]
This all sounds very promising! His tests etc. seem very similar to what my specialist does, and he is also in London. I'm really excited for you. Since he was unable to detect any clicking when doing the joint vibration analysis, does that mean that your disc is in place and your TMJD is purely muscular?
The price sounds reasonable as well. You mentioned that your work will cover 90% of the treatment costs. Can you tell me if Dr. Rawson puts it through as something other than TMJD treatment? The reason I ask is because my insurance specifically excludes coverage for TMJD treatment.
I almost forgot, did he mention anything about "Phase II" treatment? Will he need to adjust your bite after you've worn the orthotic for the 4-6 months?
Anyway, I'm glad you had a positive experience, and I wish you the very best of luck in your treatment.
Take care.
Crystal
[This message has been edited by crystalll (edited 07-05-2003).]
Jamie
07-05-2003, 08:30 PM
Crystal,
No mention of Phase II Treatment, but I will be asking. Although there is no "mention" of TMJ on my insurance sheet that I am submitting, it lists all of the work that is going to be done.
The reason I say that I am 90% covered is because my insurance has covered my two "TMJ Consultations" for 90%, but I guess I could be in for a rude awakening. I was unable to contact the person at my job who looks after all of this, but I'll find out soon enough!
He did mention something about my disc, being the reason they couldn't hear clicking. All I know, is that my x-ray shows my TMJ pushed almost right up against my ear nerves on my right side, and a bit high on my left side.
I've already had braces, so I am hoping I don't need them again when this is all said and done...
Just when I thought I asked ALL of the questions I could... hehe..
No mention of Phase II Treatment, but I will be asking. Although there is no "mention" of TMJ on my insurance sheet that I am submitting, it lists all of the work that is going to be done.
The reason I say that I am 90% covered is because my insurance has covered my two "TMJ Consultations" for 90%, but I guess I could be in for a rude awakening. I was unable to contact the person at my job who looks after all of this, but I'll find out soon enough!
He did mention something about my disc, being the reason they couldn't hear clicking. All I know, is that my x-ray shows my TMJ pushed almost right up against my ear nerves on my right side, and a bit high on my left side.
I've already had braces, so I am hoping I don't need them again when this is all said and done...
Just when I thought I asked ALL of the questions I could... hehe..
Cymy Sue
07-06-2003, 04:44 AM
Hi Jamie,
I know there have been some bad stories of wisdom teeth removal causing problems, but that was the first thing I had done about 27 years ago due to a similiar problem. It was before I was diagnosed with TMJS and my wisdom teeth were impacted and laying side-ways toward my teeth. They thought this was causing the pain. I had them surgically removed and never had a problem. The OS who did this told me that there was something else wrong and he told me to see an Ortho. That's who usually diagnosed and treated TMJ back in the Dark Ages.
I also had an old root canaled tooth that hurt for years. I had it checked and re-done several times and it continued to cause some major pain. Eventually, 3 other teeth beside it (Top Left) started to hurt, nothing wrong with them, just hurting all the time. I had them canaled ( the Endo was against it, but I insisted) I still had the pain. I finally had the orignal tooth pulled (a little extreme, but the pain had become unbearable) and the pain went away for the first time in about 15 years. The OS, my Dentist and the Endo who all work together in the building examined the old canaled tooth and and finally found a microscopic crack in it. (It could almost not be seen) It had over the years irritated the tissue and nerves around itself and the other teeth. I know this may sound a little extreme, but I've never had another pain in that area.
I know a lot of members are afraid to have wisdom teeth extractions and root canals and these procedures can sometimes cause the problems. If you have good Doctors, it can be done without aggravating or disturbing the TMJ. I had the canals and the extraction during some of the worst of my pain and without disc.
I've also had 2 "Sleep Studies" done in the last 3 years. (2 different Doc's) I was making a strange noise that sounded like I was not breathing well. Both test came up negative for Apnea. The last Doctor said it had to be related to the TMJ in some way. I was totally surprized. He said this was a relatively new theory. He wanted me to have another one and see if they could pinpoint anything. I got my splint right after the last study and I don't make the noises anymore. (I didn't go back)
I have started to see reports of studies relating Sleep problems and noises to TMJD. This symtom has been added to some TMJ symtoms lists by some Doctors.
Sorry to write such a long reply, but we had some things in common and it sounds like to me, this Doctor is covering all the bases. I'm very impressed that he was aware of the 2 tiny muscles that can be responsible for your ear problems. (A lot of DR's, even ENT's act like they don't have a clue about this connection: I think they are called the Tensor veli Palantini & Tensor Tympani)
It sounds like you've found someone who is aware of all the problems and knows how to treat them. (It took me nearly 30 years and many Doctors to find out all of the information that you got in this one visit. :) )
The cost sounds very reasonable compared to the amounts some of the members are being charged. Hopefully, we will see more stories like yours, instead of the terrible disappointments and mis-treatments that our members usually report.
I wish you the best with your treatment.
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 07-06-2003).]
I know there have been some bad stories of wisdom teeth removal causing problems, but that was the first thing I had done about 27 years ago due to a similiar problem. It was before I was diagnosed with TMJS and my wisdom teeth were impacted and laying side-ways toward my teeth. They thought this was causing the pain. I had them surgically removed and never had a problem. The OS who did this told me that there was something else wrong and he told me to see an Ortho. That's who usually diagnosed and treated TMJ back in the Dark Ages.
I also had an old root canaled tooth that hurt for years. I had it checked and re-done several times and it continued to cause some major pain. Eventually, 3 other teeth beside it (Top Left) started to hurt, nothing wrong with them, just hurting all the time. I had them canaled ( the Endo was against it, but I insisted) I still had the pain. I finally had the orignal tooth pulled (a little extreme, but the pain had become unbearable) and the pain went away for the first time in about 15 years. The OS, my Dentist and the Endo who all work together in the building examined the old canaled tooth and and finally found a microscopic crack in it. (It could almost not be seen) It had over the years irritated the tissue and nerves around itself and the other teeth. I know this may sound a little extreme, but I've never had another pain in that area.
I know a lot of members are afraid to have wisdom teeth extractions and root canals and these procedures can sometimes cause the problems. If you have good Doctors, it can be done without aggravating or disturbing the TMJ. I had the canals and the extraction during some of the worst of my pain and without disc.
I've also had 2 "Sleep Studies" done in the last 3 years. (2 different Doc's) I was making a strange noise that sounded like I was not breathing well. Both test came up negative for Apnea. The last Doctor said it had to be related to the TMJ in some way. I was totally surprized. He said this was a relatively new theory. He wanted me to have another one and see if they could pinpoint anything. I got my splint right after the last study and I don't make the noises anymore. (I didn't go back)
I have started to see reports of studies relating Sleep problems and noises to TMJD. This symtom has been added to some TMJ symtoms lists by some Doctors.
Sorry to write such a long reply, but we had some things in common and it sounds like to me, this Doctor is covering all the bases. I'm very impressed that he was aware of the 2 tiny muscles that can be responsible for your ear problems. (A lot of DR's, even ENT's act like they don't have a clue about this connection: I think they are called the Tensor veli Palantini & Tensor Tympani)
It sounds like you've found someone who is aware of all the problems and knows how to treat them. (It took me nearly 30 years and many Doctors to find out all of the information that you got in this one visit. :) )
The cost sounds very reasonable compared to the amounts some of the members are being charged. Hopefully, we will see more stories like yours, instead of the terrible disappointments and mis-treatments that our members usually report.
I wish you the best with your treatment.
Cymy Sue
[This message has been edited by Cymy Sue (edited 07-06-2003).]
Jamie
07-07-2003, 12:30 PM
Cymy,
I guess my only confusion is, "WHY didn't they hear the cracking noises that I hear?". I mean, I guess it COULD be my ears that are crackling or popping all of the time..
The doctor said that I could still have TMJ and no cracking noises in my jaw, something to do with my discs... I don't quite recall due to the length of the visit and the wealth of information I obtained...
I don't have jaw pain ALL of the time. I get it here and there, and I get the odd headache, and temple pain.. but it's really not a distraction. The ear problems are ALWAYS there.. and have not improved in months, and are slowly getting worse (ie: I could go to a bar in Janurary, now I can't.. it's to much for my ears to handle) and the "ticking" noises in my ears is there everytime I listen to the TV, music, talk on the phone etc, etc...
I guess I am just in disbelief that all of this can be because of my wisdom teeth and jaw...
I guess my only confusion is, "WHY didn't they hear the cracking noises that I hear?". I mean, I guess it COULD be my ears that are crackling or popping all of the time..
The doctor said that I could still have TMJ and no cracking noises in my jaw, something to do with my discs... I don't quite recall due to the length of the visit and the wealth of information I obtained...
I don't have jaw pain ALL of the time. I get it here and there, and I get the odd headache, and temple pain.. but it's really not a distraction. The ear problems are ALWAYS there.. and have not improved in months, and are slowly getting worse (ie: I could go to a bar in Janurary, now I can't.. it's to much for my ears to handle) and the "ticking" noises in my ears is there everytime I listen to the TV, music, talk on the phone etc, etc...
I guess I am just in disbelief that all of this can be because of my wisdom teeth and jaw...
Jamie
07-08-2003, 09:20 AM
bump
Cymy Sue
07-08-2003, 09:51 AM
Jamie,
I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that question. Noises that "we" hear are caused by many different things. My best guess would be that it's possibly muscular and muscles that are close or connected to your ears. It's very possible the noise is not coming from your joint.
I would ask the Doctor as soon as possible to please explain what he thinks is going on.
Take Care,
Cymy Sue
I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that question. Noises that "we" hear are caused by many different things. My best guess would be that it's possibly muscular and muscles that are close or connected to your ears. It's very possible the noise is not coming from your joint.
I would ask the Doctor as soon as possible to please explain what he thinks is going on.
Take Care,
Cymy Sue
hbep
07-08-2003, 12:10 PM
HI there Jamie,
I really just wanted to say hello again as another ear sufferer, this board is great for finding people in the same boat who are equally worried and equally bemused about it all. I have hyperacusis, tinnitus, intermittent ear tightness and, sometimes, subjective hearing loss (a sense of diminished hearing that doesn't show up on tests)I, like you, only rarely get jaw discomfort and facial/temple pain etc... I also went the ENT route. They could find nothing. I did eventually make an appointment with a nuero otologist (super specialist in dizziness/ears/brain) as I also experience dizziness and was worried about a disease called menieres. They concluded that I have labyrinthitis which has probably triggered the tmjd.
I'm afraid I can't be of much more help to you other than saying you are not alone with this. Apparently nearly all of this ear horror is down to my jaw, but it's just so hard to believe that when you're going through it. If my jaw was hurting like mad, I wouldn't be happy, obviously, but it would make more sense. Like you, the fear that it isn't my jaw, but something else, causes a lot of anxiety. By the way, my jaw doesn't click or pop either, but I have a definite tmjd diagnosis.
I don't know if you've read Fibrine's post on tensor tympani symdrome, but that probably explains the clicking in your ears.
Keep in touch,
hbep.
I really just wanted to say hello again as another ear sufferer, this board is great for finding people in the same boat who are equally worried and equally bemused about it all. I have hyperacusis, tinnitus, intermittent ear tightness and, sometimes, subjective hearing loss (a sense of diminished hearing that doesn't show up on tests)I, like you, only rarely get jaw discomfort and facial/temple pain etc... I also went the ENT route. They could find nothing. I did eventually make an appointment with a nuero otologist (super specialist in dizziness/ears/brain) as I also experience dizziness and was worried about a disease called menieres. They concluded that I have labyrinthitis which has probably triggered the tmjd.
I'm afraid I can't be of much more help to you other than saying you are not alone with this. Apparently nearly all of this ear horror is down to my jaw, but it's just so hard to believe that when you're going through it. If my jaw was hurting like mad, I wouldn't be happy, obviously, but it would make more sense. Like you, the fear that it isn't my jaw, but something else, causes a lot of anxiety. By the way, my jaw doesn't click or pop either, but I have a definite tmjd diagnosis.
I don't know if you've read Fibrine's post on tensor tympani symdrome, but that probably explains the clicking in your ears.
Keep in touch,
hbep.
jafc
07-09-2003, 11:46 PM
Hi Jamie,
Your new dentist sounds great. Good luck.
I too am a probable sleep apnea sufferer. I have most of the symptoms and have been referred for a sleep study that will be scheduled some time this summer (I hope!). I have done some research about sleep apnea, and though I don't have a lot of concrete information I can share at the moment, I do want to caution you when you consult an ENT about it. From what I've read, many ENTs like to perform a surgery called UPPP (an acronym) to treat sleep apnea. They remove the uvula and portions of the palate as well. It is a painful surgery that is effective in curing sleep apnea less than 50% of the time. When I was discussing my (self-diagnosed) sleep apnea with my PCP, she said she was thinking about referring me to an ENT but then sort of under her breath she said "but he'd probably want to do a UPPP." So she decided to send me for a sleep study instead of an ENT referral in addition or instead of the sleep study.
When I saw my neuro last week about my migraines & the sleep apnea, he asked if I'd seen an ENT to diagnose the sleep apnea, and as I was saying that I hadn't, he said "well, you wouldn't want to have a UPPP." So doctors know that this surgery is not a good thing, yet it is often done. Several people on the sleep apnea message boards I read have had this surgery and deeply regret it (though I'm sure others have been satisfied with it).
Anyway, there is plenty of information available online about sleep apnea (as well as the UPPP surgery) if you are actually diagnosed.
Hope this is helpful,
------------------
Judy
[This message has been edited by jafc (edited 07-09-2003).]
Your new dentist sounds great. Good luck.
I too am a probable sleep apnea sufferer. I have most of the symptoms and have been referred for a sleep study that will be scheduled some time this summer (I hope!). I have done some research about sleep apnea, and though I don't have a lot of concrete information I can share at the moment, I do want to caution you when you consult an ENT about it. From what I've read, many ENTs like to perform a surgery called UPPP (an acronym) to treat sleep apnea. They remove the uvula and portions of the palate as well. It is a painful surgery that is effective in curing sleep apnea less than 50% of the time. When I was discussing my (self-diagnosed) sleep apnea with my PCP, she said she was thinking about referring me to an ENT but then sort of under her breath she said "but he'd probably want to do a UPPP." So she decided to send me for a sleep study instead of an ENT referral in addition or instead of the sleep study.
When I saw my neuro last week about my migraines & the sleep apnea, he asked if I'd seen an ENT to diagnose the sleep apnea, and as I was saying that I hadn't, he said "well, you wouldn't want to have a UPPP." So doctors know that this surgery is not a good thing, yet it is often done. Several people on the sleep apnea message boards I read have had this surgery and deeply regret it (though I'm sure others have been satisfied with it).
Anyway, there is plenty of information available online about sleep apnea (as well as the UPPP surgery) if you are actually diagnosed.
Hope this is helpful,
------------------
Judy
[This message has been edited by jafc (edited 07-09-2003).]
Marlene
07-10-2003, 05:58 PM
Hi Jamie,
This dentist sounds great to me!! Very thorough in his approach to diagnosing your problem.
Marlene
This dentist sounds great to me!! Very thorough in his approach to diagnosing your problem.
Marlene
totallyconfused
07-10-2003, 06:33 PM
Jamie,
It is WONDERFUL news that the test didn't pick up the clicking. This may mean that you don't have a displaced disc. It also sounds like he didn't hear anything that concerned him--like vibrations that could correlate to degeneration. You can always ask him to run it again, just to be sure. If this is the case, it is possible that the clicking is caused from your ears--as many have stated. This could be muscular in nature and caused from muscle problems that many have with TMJD. Please don't give up. I feel your pain (I have ear issues of my own) and hope that you are able to get help soon.
Take care,
TC
It is WONDERFUL news that the test didn't pick up the clicking. This may mean that you don't have a displaced disc. It also sounds like he didn't hear anything that concerned him--like vibrations that could correlate to degeneration. You can always ask him to run it again, just to be sure. If this is the case, it is possible that the clicking is caused from your ears--as many have stated. This could be muscular in nature and caused from muscle problems that many have with TMJD. Please don't give up. I feel your pain (I have ear issues of my own) and hope that you are able to get help soon.
Take care,
TC