Ouch-ear-pain
10-15-2003, 03:51 PM
Oooohhhhh,
I am so mad right know! I will tell you how it all went from the time I walked in...
I turned my new patient forms in (they were sent to me in the mail), and she said I had one more to fill-out. So I filled it out, and turned it it. About 2-3 minutes later she called me in. My mom came in behind me. I sat down in the consultaion room and she filled out some paperwork, (she asked me no questions). Then she said the dentist will be in. After 5-10 minutes of waiting he finally came in...
This is were trouble sadness and angriness came in. He went and put some gloves on and told his assistant some dental terms to write down. She did as he told. Then he leaned the chair back and said open. I opened my mouth and he "fiddled" with it. He took measurements and told them to the assistant. He explained nothing whatsoever about my measurements. He said my overall opening was 11mm. After that he said something about 44mm. He then told me I need to start flossing regularly. He also told me I have a potential for gum disease. He took this poky thing as I call it and started poking my gums and making them bleed. That really hurt!! Then he said I need to make an appt. with a dental hygienest and get my teeth cleaned.
Then he stoped and took off his gloves and started talking to my mother. He told her that "I" caused TMJ on my own! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif :mad: OOOHHHH man I was mad!! He never asked me ANY of my symptoms!!!! He said a mouthguard and a splint "might" be helpful. He said I needed braces and wanted to put them on me but not until I got my teeth cleaned, and after I had splint therapy. Then he told me I caused TMJ by-myself and I should not clench. He said the reason why you have TMJ is because of yourself. He had no other options for me.
What the heck is wrong with this guy?? My cost will be $350.00 for a mouthguard not a splint a mouthguard!! Then since he does braces he wants to put me in those for the cost of $6,340.00 dollars! He said I will need treatment for 5 years!!!! None of that cost is including a splint! Do you know how much splints cost? :(
My other orthodontist said I had TMJ because of an overbite and this one says because of myself! I am so getting another opinion! Forget about him! Can you believe this? Thanks for listening to me mope about.
Ear :mad:
BTW: He took no x-rays whatsoever and that was all my consultation was about! Shouldn't they do x-rays ask me my symptoms??? I don't know about this guy!!
I am so mad right know! I will tell you how it all went from the time I walked in...
I turned my new patient forms in (they were sent to me in the mail), and she said I had one more to fill-out. So I filled it out, and turned it it. About 2-3 minutes later she called me in. My mom came in behind me. I sat down in the consultaion room and she filled out some paperwork, (she asked me no questions). Then she said the dentist will be in. After 5-10 minutes of waiting he finally came in...
This is were trouble sadness and angriness came in. He went and put some gloves on and told his assistant some dental terms to write down. She did as he told. Then he leaned the chair back and said open. I opened my mouth and he "fiddled" with it. He took measurements and told them to the assistant. He explained nothing whatsoever about my measurements. He said my overall opening was 11mm. After that he said something about 44mm. He then told me I need to start flossing regularly. He also told me I have a potential for gum disease. He took this poky thing as I call it and started poking my gums and making them bleed. That really hurt!! Then he said I need to make an appt. with a dental hygienest and get my teeth cleaned.
Then he stoped and took off his gloves and started talking to my mother. He told her that "I" caused TMJ on my own! http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/redface.gif :mad: OOOHHHH man I was mad!! He never asked me ANY of my symptoms!!!! He said a mouthguard and a splint "might" be helpful. He said I needed braces and wanted to put them on me but not until I got my teeth cleaned, and after I had splint therapy. Then he told me I caused TMJ by-myself and I should not clench. He said the reason why you have TMJ is because of yourself. He had no other options for me.
What the heck is wrong with this guy?? My cost will be $350.00 for a mouthguard not a splint a mouthguard!! Then since he does braces he wants to put me in those for the cost of $6,340.00 dollars! He said I will need treatment for 5 years!!!! None of that cost is including a splint! Do you know how much splints cost? :(
My other orthodontist said I had TMJ because of an overbite and this one says because of myself! I am so getting another opinion! Forget about him! Can you believe this? Thanks for listening to me mope about.
Ear :mad:
BTW: He took no x-rays whatsoever and that was all my consultation was about! Shouldn't they do x-rays ask me my symptoms??? I don't know about this guy!!
Sponsor
TonyF
10-15-2003, 04:01 PM
Hey
I completely understand what you are going through, When I went to see a Dentist about pains in my face and neck and jaw, He said it was caused from impacting of my wisdoms so I went and spent 1000$ on that, Then he told me to come back in 2 weeks, When I did he looked at them and said there looking good, I told him Im still having pain and its getting worse, all I was told is, It will clear up, Now Im here struggling with this pain.
I completely understand what you are going through, When I went to see a Dentist about pains in my face and neck and jaw, He said it was caused from impacting of my wisdoms so I went and spent 1000$ on that, Then he told me to come back in 2 weeks, When I did he looked at them and said there looking good, I told him Im still having pain and its getting worse, all I was told is, It will clear up, Now Im here struggling with this pain.
kami-girl
10-15-2003, 09:49 PM
Did you see an orthodondist or a tmj specialist? What part of the US do you live in? Perhaps their is someone who would be able to give you a proper diagnosis. Sounds like this guy just wants to make pretty teeth and lots of $.
Grace
Grace
GenDen
10-15-2003, 09:50 PM
Did he tell you how to stop clenching and grinding? If you had asked him, bet he wouldn't have had an answer. It is something you didn't cause and something you can't control during sleep.
In my opinion, the problem is that you went to an orthodontist. Orthodontists don't study about TMJ problems. They specialize in doing braces, so of course that is what they will tell you. You need to see a TMJ specialist for a diagnosis and treatment plan.
The one good thing I read in your account is that he said that you shouldn't be fitted with braces until you had been through splint therapy. Did he recommend a TMJ specialist to fit you with a splint ?
Perhaps you could get your mother to read the messages on this board and learn about TMJ dysfunction. Since your parents will be paying for the treatment, it is important that they are informed about the condition, methods of treatment, and an idea about the cost of treatment. Unfortunately, it is not cheap, but a lifetime of pain is much more expensive in many ways.
In the meantime, during the day, monitor yourself and do not clench. It is impossible to control clenching and grinding at night during sleep, but during the day you can be aware.
I think the 44 mm is the opening measurement and the 11 mm is how far you can move your jaw from side to side. Both of these measurements are normal. He is probably right that you need a splint to put your jaw in the right position or a relaxed position and when you are out of pain for a while a follow up with braces. It very well may be that you are clenching because your teeth are not fitting together properly. Don't blame yourself for clenching.
Best of luck in finding treatment. I believe that if you get treatment now, you won't suffer problems throughout your life. At this point you have likely not done any permanent damage to your jaw joints or muscles. Treatment right away will keep you from having a lifetime of problems like many on this board have had. You might want to print this out for your mother to read. There are several mothers who post on this board who are gaining information to help find treatment for their teenage children. Best of everything to you Ear.
In my opinion, the problem is that you went to an orthodontist. Orthodontists don't study about TMJ problems. They specialize in doing braces, so of course that is what they will tell you. You need to see a TMJ specialist for a diagnosis and treatment plan.
The one good thing I read in your account is that he said that you shouldn't be fitted with braces until you had been through splint therapy. Did he recommend a TMJ specialist to fit you with a splint ?
Perhaps you could get your mother to read the messages on this board and learn about TMJ dysfunction. Since your parents will be paying for the treatment, it is important that they are informed about the condition, methods of treatment, and an idea about the cost of treatment. Unfortunately, it is not cheap, but a lifetime of pain is much more expensive in many ways.
In the meantime, during the day, monitor yourself and do not clench. It is impossible to control clenching and grinding at night during sleep, but during the day you can be aware.
I think the 44 mm is the opening measurement and the 11 mm is how far you can move your jaw from side to side. Both of these measurements are normal. He is probably right that you need a splint to put your jaw in the right position or a relaxed position and when you are out of pain for a while a follow up with braces. It very well may be that you are clenching because your teeth are not fitting together properly. Don't blame yourself for clenching.
Best of luck in finding treatment. I believe that if you get treatment now, you won't suffer problems throughout your life. At this point you have likely not done any permanent damage to your jaw joints or muscles. Treatment right away will keep you from having a lifetime of problems like many on this board have had. You might want to print this out for your mother to read. There are several mothers who post on this board who are gaining information to help find treatment for their teenage children. Best of everything to you Ear.
saaraah
10-15-2003, 10:03 PM
ouch - im sorry that your appointment was disappointing. i can completely relate to how you're feeling - some doctors have no respect or decency for their patients.
it's taken me awhile, but i've finally found a good dentist.. you just need to keep on searching. try to find a dentist who works with TMJD patients instead of an orthodontist - they're more likely to push for braces instead of other treatments.
btw, i think that the 44 mm is your jaw opening [wide], and the 11 mm is how far you can open side to side.
normal jaw opening is 52-56 mm, i believe, and im not sure what normal is for side to side.
anyway, hang in there.. i'd definitely consider finding a dentist who gives you a good "gut feeling" and treats you like a human being.
take care,
- saaraah.
it's taken me awhile, but i've finally found a good dentist.. you just need to keep on searching. try to find a dentist who works with TMJD patients instead of an orthodontist - they're more likely to push for braces instead of other treatments.
btw, i think that the 44 mm is your jaw opening [wide], and the 11 mm is how far you can open side to side.
normal jaw opening is 52-56 mm, i believe, and im not sure what normal is for side to side.
anyway, hang in there.. i'd definitely consider finding a dentist who gives you a good "gut feeling" and treats you like a human being.
take care,
- saaraah.
Eric1
10-15-2003, 10:14 PM
Hi, your doctor doesnt sound very personable to start with and that would make me wary. You have to count on this guy to treat you for years to come and telling you that you caused your problems yourself seems like a sure sign he really doesnt understand tmj. As far waiting 3 years, for the price you're paying you could get the accelerated osteogenic braces like I'm having and be done in 6 months. There are several studies at the site that show much more wider and expanded bites than with conventional braces. As far as splints go, I spent close to two thousand dollars prior to seeing my orthodontist and I didn't find that it helped much at all. I get just as much relief stretching or using a hot compress, or even laying flat on the floor watching tv. I've heard people say that if you're jaw isnt relaxed before you start you're braces then they may not come out right, but with this procedure you get alot of movement in the first 3 months or so. That allows you to do your best in that period to keep your jaw fairly relaxed and let the braces do their thing. Another big thing to consider is whether your splint will even fit once you start your braces. Mine no longer fits and I feel a total waste of money. The braces themselves will actually make your face feel like you have some support and cutting the time from 3 years to 6 months with better results if unreal. Hope you're feeling better and I'll keep you updated on how mine are working out ear. Take care.
Ouch-ear-pain
10-16-2003, 02:01 AM
Tony: Yeah, I know TMJ is so hard to deal with.
Kami-girl: I saw a orthodontist! I think that was the problem.
Gen-Den: He did not recommend me somewhere to get a splint made. He said I need to clean my teeth before he will even work on me. I have overcorwded teeth and I can not afford braces so it is hard to keep them clean if ya know what I mean!
Thanks you all for replying! I am going to find another TMJ specialist but they are hard to find! I might have to go out of town.
Kami-girl: I saw a orthodontist! I think that was the problem.
Gen-Den: He did not recommend me somewhere to get a splint made. He said I need to clean my teeth before he will even work on me. I have overcorwded teeth and I can not afford braces so it is hard to keep them clean if ya know what I mean!
Thanks you all for replying! I am going to find another TMJ specialist but they are hard to find! I might have to go out of town.
LarLarz
10-16-2003, 01:33 PM
Hey....I have seen you on the ear boards as well. Did a doc tell you that TMJ disorder is causing all of your probs too?
I had a similar ANGRY experience at the doctors today. I went to the ENT who I had gone to the last time this was really bad. At that time the doc gave me Cipro drops and said it was Otisis Media something or other. I don't know if it worked or not. Things come and go and come and go. And are sometimes really bad and sometimes tolerable...so I seriously have no clue what works and what doesn't. Has it ever completly gone away? No. Anyways,,,I went in, I told him what was going on and he looks in my ears, asks me when was the last time I was at the dentist and tells me I had TMJ and I have to see someone else about that. I told him how I keep feeling like I have a cold and how my glands keep swelling up on that side behind my ear. He says "well, they aren't swollen now, so it has nothing to do with it." AGHHHH!!! I'm like "yea, but they were swollen 2 days ago!!!! That is why I called!!!! I paid $60 bc I had no med insurance right now to be sent out the door in 5 minutes. I was FURIOUS. I had an allergist tell me a few months ago that I could definetly have Eustachian Tube Dysfunction. What the hell am I supposed to believe??? Again, can't afford all the specialists. I thought ENT could give me the antibiotics again. But he said there was abolutly nothing wrong with my ears. As soon as I told him I have crunching noises he said it was TMJ. Now maybe I do have that, but I just don't see how that could cause ALL of these ear probs. And I eat the same way and sleep the same way everynight. So how come one day it will bother me and one day it won't??
man...this sucks.
Laura
I had a similar ANGRY experience at the doctors today. I went to the ENT who I had gone to the last time this was really bad. At that time the doc gave me Cipro drops and said it was Otisis Media something or other. I don't know if it worked or not. Things come and go and come and go. And are sometimes really bad and sometimes tolerable...so I seriously have no clue what works and what doesn't. Has it ever completly gone away? No. Anyways,,,I went in, I told him what was going on and he looks in my ears, asks me when was the last time I was at the dentist and tells me I had TMJ and I have to see someone else about that. I told him how I keep feeling like I have a cold and how my glands keep swelling up on that side behind my ear. He says "well, they aren't swollen now, so it has nothing to do with it." AGHHHH!!! I'm like "yea, but they were swollen 2 days ago!!!! That is why I called!!!! I paid $60 bc I had no med insurance right now to be sent out the door in 5 minutes. I was FURIOUS. I had an allergist tell me a few months ago that I could definetly have Eustachian Tube Dysfunction. What the hell am I supposed to believe??? Again, can't afford all the specialists. I thought ENT could give me the antibiotics again. But he said there was abolutly nothing wrong with my ears. As soon as I told him I have crunching noises he said it was TMJ. Now maybe I do have that, but I just don't see how that could cause ALL of these ear probs. And I eat the same way and sleep the same way everynight. So how come one day it will bother me and one day it won't??
man...this sucks.
Laura
LarLarz
10-16-2003, 01:37 PM
Oh...BTW Ouch, I had someone else tell me before that if I suspected TMJ to go to the sporting goods store and buy one of those mouth guards instead of spending a fortune at the dentist. They also have "nightguards" that they sell at the drugstore for $20. They sell them in small, medium and large I think. Just a thought before you spend hundreds of dollars. I am gonna look into that first as well bc I know i clench my teeth and grind them at night.
PINKYPRISCILLA
10-16-2003, 01:44 PM
The last thing you need is an insulting doctor
go /run to another one!!!!
go /run to another one!!!!
saaraah
10-16-2003, 02:24 PM
larlarz - just a note: those cheap mouthguards can actually cause more TMJD symptoms. they're actually a bad idea; a lot of people on here have gotten a lot worse after wearing those..
- saaraah.
- saaraah.
MrsLee
10-16-2003, 03:18 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with the doctor. Don't let anyone tell you the TMJD is your fault! For years I kept telling my dentist and my parents that my jaw hurt and I couldn't open my mouth. No one took me seriously. Years later I had to have surgery because of it.
Keep trying until you find a doctor that understands the disease and treats you with respect! So many dentists and orthodontists are not familiar with TMJD. The doctor that finally diagnosed me was an oral/maxillofacial surgeon. But even his knowledge is limited. I am considering seeing a doctor that specializes in TMJ disorder. Please do this before you let anyone put braces on you. Sounds like this guy just wants to take your money (my opinion of most in the medical profession). Good luck and take care!
Keep trying until you find a doctor that understands the disease and treats you with respect! So many dentists and orthodontists are not familiar with TMJD. The doctor that finally diagnosed me was an oral/maxillofacial surgeon. But even his knowledge is limited. I am considering seeing a doctor that specializes in TMJ disorder. Please do this before you let anyone put braces on you. Sounds like this guy just wants to take your money (my opinion of most in the medical profession). Good luck and take care!
Ouch-ear-pain
10-16-2003, 03:39 PM
Saaraah: Thank you for understanding my "unfriednly dentist appointment". It is hard to find TMJ specialists. Maybe I should post something up.
Eric: Thanks also for understanding. Be sure and keep me posted on how you are doing!
LarLarz: Yes both my ENT and my GP told me TMJ is what is causing my ear problems. I don't think the orthodontist new what he was doing! Sorry about your bad experience at the ENT! As for those mouthguards, DON'T BUY ONE!!! I have one and they are big & bulky and they make my mouth hurt even more because I can't close my mouth while they are in. Also if you look on the box it says they are not recommended for people with TMJD.
Pinky: Trust me I will!
MrsLee: I know I can't believe the doctor told me I brought my TMJ on all by-myself! You take care as well!
Thank you everyone for replying and I will let you know when I find another one and when my appt. will be! Thanks again~
Ear :wave:
[This message has been edited by Ouch-ear-pain (edited 10-16-2003).]
Eric: Thanks also for understanding. Be sure and keep me posted on how you are doing!
LarLarz: Yes both my ENT and my GP told me TMJ is what is causing my ear problems. I don't think the orthodontist new what he was doing! Sorry about your bad experience at the ENT! As for those mouthguards, DON'T BUY ONE!!! I have one and they are big & bulky and they make my mouth hurt even more because I can't close my mouth while they are in. Also if you look on the box it says they are not recommended for people with TMJD.
Pinky: Trust me I will!
MrsLee: I know I can't believe the doctor told me I brought my TMJ on all by-myself! You take care as well!
Thank you everyone for replying and I will let you know when I find another one and when my appt. will be! Thanks again~
Ear :wave:
[This message has been edited by Ouch-ear-pain (edited 10-16-2003).]
GenDen
10-16-2003, 04:30 PM
Ear,
I am really concerned about you and your pain. You need to be treated by a competent specialist. You keep mentioning that you can't afford braces or expensive treatment. Unfortunately, your treatment might be more expensive than your parents think they can afford. Because treatment is so necessary, perhaps you might be able to work out a way for your parents to make payments over a period of time. There are ways to work things out. Don't give up on being treated. Some TMJ specialists don't charge for the first appointment to evaluate the problem. That way you could see if he seems competent without having to spend money. If you have to go out of town to find a competent specialist, I believe it would be worth it.
I am really concerned about you and your pain. You need to be treated by a competent specialist. You keep mentioning that you can't afford braces or expensive treatment. Unfortunately, your treatment might be more expensive than your parents think they can afford. Because treatment is so necessary, perhaps you might be able to work out a way for your parents to make payments over a period of time. There are ways to work things out. Don't give up on being treated. Some TMJ specialists don't charge for the first appointment to evaluate the problem. That way you could see if he seems competent without having to spend money. If you have to go out of town to find a competent specialist, I believe it would be worth it.
Ouch-ear-pain
10-16-2003, 09:35 PM
Hi GenDen,
How are you doing? Good I hope! I just want to thank you for caring so much. It is great to have people like that http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
I also believe it would be worth going out of town but there is only 3 things we could afford:
a) A mouthguard from dentist
They range from 2-300$
b) A retainer, also running 2-300$
c) A storebought mouthguard which I
would not use because it says on the
box not recommended for people with
TMJ. Also I have one and it is too big and bulky! I hate it!
Thanks for caring so much! :angel:
Ear
[This message has been edited by Ouch-ear-pain (edited 10-16-2003).]
How are you doing? Good I hope! I just want to thank you for caring so much. It is great to have people like that http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/bang.gif
I also believe it would be worth going out of town but there is only 3 things we could afford:
a) A mouthguard from dentist
They range from 2-300$
b) A retainer, also running 2-300$
c) A storebought mouthguard which I
would not use because it says on the
box not recommended for people with
TMJ. Also I have one and it is too big and bulky! I hate it!
Thanks for caring so much! :angel:
Ear
[This message has been edited by Ouch-ear-pain (edited 10-16-2003).]
SarahSue
10-17-2003, 10:01 AM
hey ouch,
I just wanted to say that TMJ is not something you do to yourself. That is just ridiculous! There are tons of websites out there that you can have your mom read to prove that it is not your fault.
Also, be aware when they tell you that you need braces. My TMD specialist told me that braces are never a solution to TMJ. In fact, they can make your problem worse.
I paid about $700 for my splint. I know it sounds like a lot, but my opening has gone to about 46 mm! My ear pains are almost gone, I don't get headaches every day, my muscles don't hurt. That $700 was the best money I spent in my whole life!!!!!!!!
My next advice is to find a better doctor. Where are you in the US? I am sure that someone might be able to recommend someone good in your area.
Hope all is well for you!
Sarah
I just wanted to say that TMJ is not something you do to yourself. That is just ridiculous! There are tons of websites out there that you can have your mom read to prove that it is not your fault.
Also, be aware when they tell you that you need braces. My TMD specialist told me that braces are never a solution to TMJ. In fact, they can make your problem worse.
I paid about $700 for my splint. I know it sounds like a lot, but my opening has gone to about 46 mm! My ear pains are almost gone, I don't get headaches every day, my muscles don't hurt. That $700 was the best money I spent in my whole life!!!!!!!!
My next advice is to find a better doctor. Where are you in the US? I am sure that someone might be able to recommend someone good in your area.
Hope all is well for you!
Sarah
Ouch-ear-pain
10-17-2003, 12:40 PM
Hi Sarah,
I know that it is ridiculous! I don't see how one can cause TMJ on their own. I will post a thread to see if I get any replies. Thanks for replying!
Ear
I know that it is ridiculous! I don't see how one can cause TMJ on their own. I will post a thread to see if I get any replies. Thanks for replying!
Ear